A Conversation with Cain Part 2

[youkeepmewaiting]

http://michaelcavacini.com/2014/07/05/a ... in-part-2/


Some good quotes here that I'm sure people are going to copy and paste.


It's a shame Cain doesn't seem to like Eclipse all that much - Edge of a Moment, To Whom It May Convern, Tantra, Resonate etc are some of the bands best work IMO.


Arrival (plus a few new tracks) with Arnel , i'd be interested.

[slucero]

I don't think it's as much Cain not liking it as him knowing the fans in the States wouldn't like it... which meant they spent the time and money making an album that would do nothing for the band..

Q. Eclipse was your second album with Arnel and it was markedly different from the classic-yet-modern Journey sound that was featured on Revelation. Why do you think it didn’t’ resonate as well with fans?

JC: We strayed from the formula. We strayed from classic Journey. It was really Neal’s concept album. It was all guitars. That’s pretty much a guitar-driven album and Neal’s concept. He wanted an album his way, so we did it. And I don’t think it was necessarily what the fans…sure, it was good because it was rock and they loved it in Europe.

I knew the American public wasn’t going to get it because it’s not pop enough. The secret to Journey was always that blues, pop and rock gumbo of all that stuff. And it was done gracefully and soulfully. It wasn’t about heavy, hard-hitting guitars. “Any Way You Want It” was probably the (laughs) hardest hitting…or “Wheel In The Sky.” But if you think about it, there’s nothing heavy about any of that stuff…but if you put on Eclipse, it’s totally different.

I thought it sounded cool but it wasn’t what we’re used to doing. He wanted to do it because we hadn’t done it. “Let’s just make a rock record.” OK. On one hand, the experiment was successful and on the other hand, nobody really received it that well. Like I said, maybe they liked it in Germany or the UK (laughs) but…there you go.

But Arnel sounded great and we’re playing a couple songs from it in our current set. They’re good tunes.

This just pretty much confirms to me that without Perry's input, Jon is finding it hard to write with Neal... and the last sentence is pretty much a line in the sand... and can only be directed at one person...

Q. Is Journey working on news music?

JC: I don’t know. Right now, it doesn’t seem like…it’s a lot of money to make a CD. Unless we’re able to go back in and give people what they want, it doesn’t make sense. And they want the old stuff…and they already have the old stuff.

For me, you put the symphony in there and do a symphonic record. Do the hits with a symphony. That’s what I’d do because that’s what they want. But I don’t know if Neal wants to write that stuff. He’s sort of resistant to going back and writing that kind of material.

You have to really embrace it, who you are, and look at it square in the eye and say, “This is what Journey is, like it or not.” He feels like, “I wanna’ rock!” And I say, “Well, there’s a certain pop sensibility that’s missing that you’ve got to admit we have.” And that’s Perry’s kind of thing.

Perry had that pop sensibility. I followed his lead, he followed mine…and Neal added the rock edge to it. With Perry missing from the mix, do you ever get back to it? I don’t know. I think I know how to start, but everybody has to be willing to get on the same page and make classic Journey music. So, that’s where I’m at.

If everybody is willing to make a legacy album like Arrival, I’m in. If you’re not, I’m not.

[tater1977]

A Conversation With Jonathan Cain – Part 2


I had the distinct pleasure of speaking with one of the greatest singer-songwriters of all time: Jonathan Cain. In addition to having written or co-written more than 100 songs for Journey, he has penned numerous hits for The Babys and Bad English, while also maintaining a prolific career as a solo artist. In other words, the quantity, and most importantly, the quality of Jonathan Cain’s musical output is astounding.

This summer Journey is on the road with the Steve Miller Band and the Tower of Power, performing for sold-out crowds across North America. I saw them live in Holmdel, NJ and I plan on seeing them again this year. Check out the tour dates on the band’s official website to see when they’re in your area. The current lineup puts on a phenomenal show that shouldn’t be missed.

Below is part two of my interview with Jonathan Cain. Part one can be read here.

Just like a great singer conveys the meaning of a lyric by the way he or she sings it, I can always feel the emotion of a song when you play the piano. Is this done consciously or does it happen organically because you’re as wrapped up in the songs when you play them as the fans are when they listen to them?

The piano has a voice all its own and I resonate with it. The first time I heard a Burt Bacharach song, back in the ’60s, I knew that’s what I wanted to do. I heard his music – and Paul Williams’ music – and I was like, “Man, I wanna’ do that.” Those are two guys that made me want to be songwriters. They had the classic hits. How do you write a song that’s gonna’ last a lifetime? How do those guys do it?

So, I had pretty high standards…and I learned a lot of standards. The piano, to me, just has a very classical, powerful voice that can accompany…or be the orchestra, if you will. I always look at a piano like an orchestra. You play it passionately and it will serve you well. And that’s how I approach my playing. I also did a little time at the Chicago Conservatory of Music and I was blessed to have some good teaching there.

One of my favorite songs on your 2009 solo album, Where I Live, is “Letting Me Down.” It’s beautiful and sad all at once. How did it feel to write about such a personal issue and share it with the world?

My buddy had had that experience. He was at a crossroads in his relationship and it seemed like it just had to come out – the urgent part again. The “let’s get this before we lose it” feeling. And as songwriters, it’s like catching a butterfly…a rare butterfly. You’ve got a net, you’re out in the forest and you’ve got this time out there to get that butterfly. And then that butterfly is gone. And that’s kind of what that song was like. It was an exotic butterfly, and I’m lucky to get a lot of the songs like that. They need to be written on the spot because of the moment. There’s this moment that might never be there again.

I was sitting there with him in my studio and he was getting emotional. I just started playing. He started writing lyrics and he goes, “Jon, that’s beautiful. What is it?” I said, “I’m just reacting to the story you’re telling me.” And that’s what we do, we put soundtracks out there.

“Open Arms” was written as a wedding present (laughs) for my first wife.

I always teach, when I do my songwriting classes, that you write songs about crossroads in your life. That’s really important. You have to seize the moment.

It’s been a while since you’ve released a solo album. Is a new one in the works?

I’ve been writing a lot of country songs. God, I’ve got some really cool songs. I’m writing for Nashville and I have half a mind (laughs), I know this is going to sound crazy – to put out an album of my own (laughs), a country album. Country rock.

The music I’ve got is really, really good. I think it’s a hoot. So, if I can get a little more twang going on, I’ve got a whole album full of killer songs. And I may just put it out myself because I haven’t been able to get many cuts (laughs) in Nashville. I’ve been threatening (laughs) the musical community to release a country album (laughs).

I started in Nashville in 1969, when I was 19-years-old. And I live here now. I’ve got a whole studio.

I was gonna’ do a rock record. I don’t know. I was gonna’ do a Christian record. I don’t know (laughs). So I said, “What If I pick the best country songs I’ve written and put that out?” Sure, why not?

In the end I figure, do something for the fans…and call it Country Comfort with Jonathan Cain (laughs).

It’s been stated online that Kevin Chalfant of The Storm – a now defunct group that featured former Journey members Ross Valory, Gregg Rolie and Steve Smith – was going to be the lead singer of Journey prior to you guys reuniting in 1995 with Steve Perry. Is this true?

No, it’s not true. We looked at him for a second. When Steve Perry left…from ’87 to ’96, we left Journey alone. We never talked about Chalfant or anybody. We just walked away from it realizing that we had come to an impasse.

Then we did Trial By Fire and two years went by and we were going into ’98. That’s when Neal said, “I want my band back. I started the damn thing. Would you help me?” I said, “Hell yeah. We wrote two thirds of the catalog.” So, we called Perry and he declined doing another album. He declined doing touring. He didn’t want to do anything. That’s when we started looking and said, “Maybe we can get somebody else to do this.”

So, Chalfant had done a record, a tribute record I think, and played it for us. And we were mildly interested, so we did have a sit-down with him. We talked about it and declined him being the guy. We just decided, “Nah, we’ve gotta’ keep looking.”

And then Steve Augeri showed up and he was a natural fit for us at that time. He really was.

I thought Arrival was an excellent album – just a fantastic collection of music that had wonderful piano work throughout, especially the outro on “To Be Alive Again,” which is only on the Japanese version of the album. What are your thoughts on Arrival?

A really strong group of songs. Probably the most Journey-sounding legacy stuff that we did. A couple of things happened. Steve had this vocal thing, this infection, right in the middle of it. We were rehearsing, everything was going great and then – bam – it knocked him out. He lost his voice for a long time, for a couple weeks. Then he came back, but not firing on all cylinders, and he wasn’t himself. So, vocally, I don’t think he was as comfortable as he had been.

And I don’t think the mix on the record…when I listen to it today, I don’t like the way it’s mixed. Part of me wants to go back with Arnel and redo that whole thing. I want to do the best of it and add a couple new songs. We’ve been talking about taking Arrival with Arnel, who loves the songs by the way, and doing something cool with it. So, we’ll see.

Speaking of Arrival, you worked with several outside writers, including one of my favorite rockers, Jack Blades. What was it like working with Jack to write material for this album?

It was great. Jack’s really good. I enjoyed it. He’s a very good rock and roll songwriter. He gets what’s supposed to happen and has good ideas. It was a very strong, pleasant experience for me.

Revelation was your first studio album with Arnel Pineda as the lead singer of Journey and it was a huge success. His energetic presence rejuvenated the band both on and off the stage. How did it feel to perform with him live the first time?

It was great. We needed it. We needed somebody like that. We didn’t want the obvious, we wanted to go for…what isn’t obvious? An Asian Filipino singing for ya, that’s what’s not obvious. All of a sudden we become a global band, instead of just an American band. We could have gotten a number of guys…tribute guys or someone else, an older dude, to try to be Steve Perry. But we already had a Steve Perry, so we wanted something new. And he adds a lot of fire up there. He really adds a lot to the mix for us, and he’s got a great heart. He makes us a better band.

I had even more respect for Arnel after watching the documentary, Don’t Stop Believin’: Everyman’s Journey, about him joining the band. And the documentary has received great reviews from fans and critics. What made you guys want to document this process?

We didn’t, that’s the thing. One of his Filipino friends came to us while we were rehearsing and said, “I want to make a movie of him working his way into the band. Are you guys cool with it?” So, we said, “We won’t give you any money, but we’ll let you follow us around with your cameras.” And the cameras did follow us around, for three years. We just smiled when they were shooting stuff.

Eclipse was your second album with Arnel and it was markedly different from the classic-yet-modern Journey sound that was featured on Revelation. Why do you think it didn’t’ resonate as well with fans?

We strayed from the formula. We strayed from classic Journey. It was really Neal’s concept album. It was all guitars. That’s pretty much a guitar-driven album and Neal’s concept. He wanted an album his way, so we did it. And I don’t think it was necessarily what the fans…sure, it was good because it was rock and they loved it in Europe.

I knew the American public wasn’t going to get it because it’s not pop enough. The secret to Journey was always that blues, pop and rock gumbo of all that stuff. And it was done gracefully and soulfully. It wasn’t about heavy, hard-hitting guitars. “Any Way You Want It” was probably the (laughs) hardest hitting…or “Wheel In The Sky.” But if you think about it, there’s nothing heavy about any of that stuff…but if you put on Eclipse, it’s totally different.

I thought it sounded cool but it wasn’t what we’re used to doing. He wanted to do it because we hadn’t done it. “Let’s just make a rock record.” OK. On one hand, the experiment was successful and on the other hand, nobody really received it that well. Like I said, maybe they liked it in Germany or the UK (laughs) but…there you go.

But Arnel sounded great and we’re playing a couple songs from it in our current set. They’re good tunes.

Is Journey working on news music?

I don’t know. Right now, it doesn’t seem like…it’s a lot of money to make a CD. Unless we’re able to go back in and give people what they want, it doesn’t make sense. And they want the old stuff…and they already have the old stuff.

For me, you put the symphony in there and do a symphonic record. Do the hits with a symphony. That’s what I’d do because that’s what they want. But I don’t know if Neal wants to write that stuff. He’s sort of resistant to going back and writing that kind of material.

You have to really embrace it, who you are, and look at it square in the eye and say, “This is what Journey is, like it or not.” He feels like, “I wanna’ rock!” And I say, “Well, there’s a certain pop sensibility that’s missing that you’ve got to admit we have.” And that’s Perry’s kind of thing.

Perry had that pop sensibility. I followed his lead, he followed mine…and Neal added the rock edge to it. With Perry missing from the mix, do you ever get back to it? I don’t know. I think I know how to start, but everybody has to be willing to get on the same page and make classic Journey music. So, that’s where I’m at. If everybody is willing to make a legacy album like Arrival, I’m in. If you’re not, I’m not.

Recently Steve Perry returned to the stage for the first time in nearly 20 years. Some people have said that he doesn’t sound like he did in the ’70s or ’80s but, frankly, what singer does? I think Steve Perry still sounds amazing. What are your thoughts on his return to music?

I think it’s great that he broke the ice and went out with the Eels and performed. I think it needed to happen. You get a monkey off your back. You get out in front of the people and feel what that feels like. I’m very happen for him that he has embraced this concept of, “This is who I am today and I don’t sing like I used to sing.” I think he’ll enjoy it and embrace it.

He deserves to be out there on stage. I think it’s wonderful. I could never understand why he seemed to be in recluse mode, hiding away somewhere. When you’re Steve Perry, one of the greatest voices of all time, you should be on a stage where you belong. So, good for him. I’m happy he’s out there flexing his chops.

[tater1977]

I don't think it's as much Cain not liking it as him knowing the fans in the States wouldn't like it... which meant they spent the time and money making an album that would do nothing for the band..

Q. Eclipse was your second album with Arnel and it was markedly different from the classic-yet-modern Journey sound that was featured on Revelation. Why do you think it didn’t’ resonate as well with fans?

JC: We strayed from the formula. We strayed from classic Journey. It was really Neal’s concept album. It was all guitars. That’s pretty much a guitar-driven album and Neal’s concept. He wanted an album his way, so we did it. And I don’t think it was necessarily what the fans…sure, it was good because it was rock and they loved it in Europe.

I knew the American public wasn’t going to get it because it’s not pop enough. The secret to Journey was always that blues, pop and rock gumbo of all that stuff. And it was done gracefully and soulfully. It wasn’t about heavy, hard-hitting guitars. “Any Way You Want It” was probably the (laughs) hardest hitting…or “Wheel In The Sky.” But if you think about it, there’s nothing heavy about any of that stuff…but if you put on Eclipse, it’s totally different.

I thought it sounded cool but it wasn’t what we’re used to doing. He wanted to do it because we hadn’t done it. “Let’s just make a rock record.” OK. On one hand, the experiment was successful and on the other hand, nobody really received it that well. Like I said, maybe they liked it in Germany or the UK (laughs) but…there you go.

But Arnel sounded great and we’re playing a couple songs from it in our current set. They’re good tunes.

This just pretty much confirms to me that without Perry's input, Jon is finding it hard to write with Neal... and the last sentence is pretty much a line in the sand... and can only be directed at one person...

Q. Is Journey working on news music?

JC: I don’t know. Right now, it doesn’t seem like…it’s a lot of money to make a CD. Unless we’re able to go back in and give people what they want, it doesn’t make sense. And they want the old stuff…and they already have the old stuff.

For me, you put the symphony in there and do a symphonic record. Do the hits with a symphony. That’s what I’d do because that’s what they want. But I don’t know if Neal wants to write that stuff. He’s sort of resistant to going back and writing that kind of material.

You have to really embrace it, who you are, and look at it square in the eye and say, “This is what Journey is, like it or not.” He feels like, “I wanna’ rock!” And I say, “Well, there’s a certain pop sensibility that’s missing that you’ve got to admit we have.” And that’s Perry’s kind of thing.

Perry had that pop sensibility. I followed his lead, he followed mine…and Neal added the rock edge to it. With Perry missing from the mix, do you ever get back to it? I don’t know. I think I know how to start, but everybody has to be willing to get on the same page and make classic Journey music. So, that’s where I’m at.

If everybody is willing to make a legacy album like Arrival, I’m in. If you’re not, I’m not.

The real victim here...the music that could have been ...

[The_Noble_Cause]

This just pretty much confirms to me that without Perry's input, Jon is finding it hard to write with Neal... and the last sentence is pretty much a line in the sand... and can only be directed at one person...

After "Arrival", Cain said he was done with Journey albums and the band would release EPs only. Cain has had a negative attitude towards new Journey music ever since "Arrival" flopped.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Great interview. You can tell the interviewer is a fan, asking questions on everything from Chalfant to Jack Blades. Good stuff.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The real victim here...the music that could have been ...

Maybe, maybe not. You're assuming that if Neal hadn't proactively taken the lead on "Eclipse", Cain would have stepped up and crafted another derivative solid Journey album like "Revelation." I don't think there is any proof of that. The interviewer asks why "Eclipse" didn't resonate with fans, and Cain says it was too many guitars.
But NONE of the post-Perry releases resonated with casual fans.

Arrival - flop.
Red 13 - flop.
Generations - flop.
Revelation - sold only because of re-recorded dozen.

Hard rock or pop fluff, what does it matter? So the whole argument is just misdirected...

[tater1977]

The real victim here...the music that could have been ...

Maybe, maybe not. You're assuming that if Neal hadn't proactively taken the lead on "Eclipse", Cain would have stepped up and crafted another derivative solid Journey album like "Revelation." I don't think there is any proof of that. The interviewer asks why "Eclipse" didn't resonate with fans, and Cain says it was too many guitars.
But NONE of the post-Perry releases resonated with casual fans.

Arrival - flop.
Red 13 - flop.
Generations - flop.
Revelation - sold only because of re-recorded dozen.

Hard rock or pop fluff, what does it matter? So the whole argument is just misdirected...

LOL don't assume to know what I think..
I was referring to the 3.. never writing together again.
Nothing more...nothing less.

According to Jon...“This is what Journey is, like it or not.” He feels like, “I wanna’ rock!” And I say, “Well, there’s a certain pop sensibility that’s missing that you’ve got to admit we have.” And that’s Perry’s kind of thing.

Perry had that pop sensibility. I followed his lead, he followed mine…and Neal added the rock edge to it. With Perry missing from the mix, do you ever get back to it? I don’t know. '

[The_Noble_Cause]

LOL don't assume to know what I think..
I was referring to the 3.. never writing together again.
Nothing more...nothing less.

I thought you were mourning the fact that Cain/Schon aren't writing more traditional new Journey tunes. Of course, Perry's lack of activity on the scene (especially with Schon/Cain) is tragic.

[slucero]

This just pretty much confirms to me that without Perry's input, Jon is finding it hard to write with Neal... and the last sentence is pretty much a line in the sand... and can only be directed at one person...

After "Arrival", Cain said he was done with Journey albums and the band would release EPs only. Cain has had a negative attitude towards new Journey music ever since "Arrival" flopped.

...except Cains comment (and my post) wasn't referring to album size... it was referring to musical style...

Eclipse was a great album from a engineering standpoint... but from a songwriting and arrangement standpoint it's not the Journey style Cain thought would represent Journey very well to their fans..

Jon is clearly indicating by his comments that he won't give into making anything but a classic-style Journey album, and that message can only be directed at Neal, since Ross, Deen and Arnel have no say..

[The_Noble_Cause]

...except Cains comment (and my post) wasn't referring to album size... it was referring to musical style....

And my comment is, Cain's been bitching about new albums regardless of their style. He bitched after Arrival (traditional Journey) and he bitched after Eclipse (guitar oriented Journey). What's the common denominator? Low album sales.

[jestor92]

The real victim here...the music that could have been ...

The interviewer asks why "Eclipse" didn't resonate with fans, and Cain says it was too many guitars.
But NONE of the post-Perry releases resonated with casual fans.

Arrival - flop.
Red 13 - flop.
Generations - flop.
Revelation - sold only because of re-recorded dozen.

Hard rock or pop fluff, what does it matter? So the whole argument is just misdirected...

To me Eclipse was a great music album, but it really lacked on the catchy sing along chorus that Journey is known for. That is on the lyric writer. To me Schon was really into the idea of Eclipse and Cain wasn't. Cain being the main lyric writer and not being into it is a bad combo for the album.

Also I agree that Arrival was a flop. Red 13 and Generations I don't know if you can really say they were legit flops. Red 13 because if I'm not mistaken they were only selling that at their concerts originally before they decided to ship it to stores. Generations they were giving the cd away at their concerts. It's hard to get a good idea as to whether or not the album will be a success or not in both of those conditions. Even though Eclipse didn't really generate a lot of album sales the album still went up to #13 in the charts and sold around 100K albums. Granted that wasn't Revelation, but Revelation had a much better package at a better price.

I think in this day and age if a band can sell between 100-250 units in record sales that's a success.

[Pacfanweb]

...except Cains comment (and my post) wasn't referring to album size... it was referring to musical style....

And my comment is, Cain's been bitching about new albums regardless of their style. He bitched after Arrival (traditional Journey) and he bitched after Eclipse (guitar oriented Journey). What's the common denominator? Low album sales.

Neal has always done the same thing. When he was doing Hardline, he complained that John Waite "took the guitars out of the mix" and made it poppy with Bad English. In the same interview back then, he said Perry did the same thing with Journey. When he did Personal Jesus with Sammy Hagar recently, he had something to say about Sammy adding in the background singers and changing the dynamic of the song.

What Cain says is right...Neal always wants to rock. Which is fine, but in the right context. There were hard rock Journey songs....that nobody listens to or you ever hear on the radio. They're filler songs on the albums. Hard rock isn't what Journey is.

[Final Frontiers]

A Conversation With Jonathan Cain – Part 2








It’s been stated online that Kevin Chalfant of The Storm – a now defunct group that featured former Journey members Ross Valory, Gregg Rolie and Steve Smith – was going to be the lead singer of Journey prior to you guys reuniting in 1995 with Steve Perry. Is this true?

No, it’s not true. We looked at him for a second. When Steve Perry left…from ’87 to ’96, we left Journey alone. We never talked about Chalfant or anybody. We just walked away from it realizing that we had come to an impasse.

Then we did Trial By Fire and two years went by and we were going into ’98. That’s when Neal said, “I want my band back. I started the damn thing. Would you help me?” I said, “Hell yeah. We wrote two thirds of the catalog.” So, we called Perry and he declined doing another album. He declined doing touring. He didn’t want to do anything. That’s when we started looking and said, “Maybe we can get somebody else to do this.”

So, Chalfant had done a record, a tribute record I think, and played it for us. And we were mildly interested, so we did have a sit-down with him. We talked about it and declined him being the guy. We just decided, “Nah, we’ve gotta’ keep looking.”

And then Steve Augeri showed up and he was a natural fit for us at that time. He really was.

Curious, that Jonathan doesn't even mention that Chalfant sang with them at the Bammies once- nor does the interviewer. It almost sounds like "Fly 2 Freedom" was what did Chalfant in. It HAD to be uncomfortable for all involved to listen to it with Chalfant sitting right there . This was before everyone and their mother on American Idol, The Voice, and Glee was covering Journey every other week. It's human nature to sit there and compare and nitpick something they created to hear all the imperfections or things they might've liked. I imagine Ross was there too. Ahh, to be the "Fly" on the wall after that meeting . Plus, he said that this was 2 years AFTER Trial By Fire- not before it with Gregg Rolie. There's also no mention of Journey and Chalfant writing ANY songs together. Jonathan's version of events is completely different from the story Chalfant always repeats . Honestly, I'm not surprised that to Jonathan it's not as big a deal as it would be to Chalfant. Unless, they spoke to Chalfant twice Once before Trial By Fire with Gregg Rolie and once afterwards. I guess that would contribute to the rumor that Chalfant thinks that "Journey always screws him over" .

[Majestic]

...except Cains comment (and my post) wasn't referring to album size... it was referring to musical style....

And my comment is, Cain's been bitching about new albums regardless of their style. He bitched after Arrival (traditional Journey) and he bitched after Eclipse (guitar oriented Journey). What's the common denominator? Low album sales.

Corporate rockers are just all about the money, I guess.

[Majestic]

I wish Journey would do another in the vein of Revelation (not the retread disk). It is the best Journey album they did since Frontiers (sorry, Trial by Fire). It sounds like Journey, and Arnel is singing the kind of song he wants to sing and sounds amazing. I like Eclipse, and it has a lot of traditional tunes there, but what is missing is restraint. I love Neal a lot, but what he excels at is playing really melodically and expressively, where he throws in just enough hard edged stuff to create texture and tension, and threaten like he is going to bust out into something heavy and brooding, then doesn't because he is brilliant and knows how to play for the song. I'd sure like to hear Arnel make the Journey record he would want because it makes a lot of sense for the singer to sing what he feels and sing to his strengths, and every one else is in a supportive role to bring out the best in the vocal performance and the best of the music.

[Eric]

This just pretty much confirms to me that without Perry's input, Jon is finding it hard to write with Neal... and the last sentence is pretty much a line in the sand... and can only be directed at one person...

After "Arrival", Cain said he was done with Journey albums and the band would release EPs only. Cain has had a negative attitude towards new Journey music ever since "Arrival" flopped.

Yep. What he said is really frustrating to me.

- He wants to redo an album that at the time made him not want to do more albums?
- Eclipse, which debuted at #13 didn't resonate with American fans, so he wants to redo Arrival that debuted at #56?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like them to re-do a best of Arrival with a less muddy mix and Arnel on vocals...and add some new songs. But the best of can't include any of the following: "All the Way", "Loved by You", "With Your Love" and "Lifetime of Dreams".

[The_Noble_Cause]

To me Eclipse was a great music album, but it really lacked on the catchy sing along chorus that Journey is known for. That is on the lyric writer. To me Schon was really into the idea of Eclipse and Cain wasn't. Cain being the main lyric writer and not being into it is a bad combo for the album.

Also I agree that Arrival was a flop. Red 13 and Generations I don't know if you can really say they were legit flops. Red 13 because if I'm not mistaken they were only selling that at their concerts originally before they decided to ship it to stores. Generations they were giving the cd away at their concerts. It's hard to get a good idea as to whether or not the album will be a success or not in both of those conditions. Even though Eclipse didn't really generate a lot of album sales the album still went up to #13 in the charts and sold around 100K albums. Granted that wasn't Revelation, but Revelation had a much better package at a better price.

I think in this day and age if a band can sell between 100-250 units in record sales that's a success.

Good post. I would say a handful of songs on Eclipse were really catchy - Anything is Possible, Someone, Ritual - all of these would easily have fit on Arrival or Revelation. But not every album is going to be a Greatest Hits type compilation with one anthem rocker after another. Look at something like 'Departure', an album I love, but to the casual ear, there is maybe 1 or 2 catchy radio songs.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Neal has always done the same thing. When he was doing Hardline, he complained that John Waite "took the guitars out of the mix" and made it poppy with Bad English. In the same interview back then, he said Perry did the same thing with Journey. When he did Personal Jesus with Sammy Hagar recently, he had something to say about Sammy adding in the background singers and changing the dynamic of the song.

Not the same thing. Cain has expressed regret over the state of the music industry and whether creating new music is viable. Neal has never stopped creating new music, solo or otherwise.

[Gideon]

I'm totally ok if Cain doesn't want to veer off the beaten path for the next album to the extent that they did on Eclipse, but I wouldn't want them to totally abandon that direction, either. As TNC says, "Anything Is Possible," "Ritual," and "Someone" all scream classic Journey to me; "Resonate" not so much, but it's a top 5 all-time Journey song for me.

[FamilyMan]

...except Cains comment (and my post) wasn't referring to album size... it was referring to musical style....

And my comment is, Cain's been bitching about new albums regardless of their style. He bitched after Arrival (traditional Journey) and he bitched after Eclipse (guitar oriented Journey). What's the common denominator? Low album sales.

The common denominator is NO PERRY. Journey won't get radio airplay or any solid sales with Arnel as frontman. They're kidding themselves if they really think it's about the music. Revelation had some juice because of the Walmart deal Izoff brilliantly brokered, and Arnel's story had media outlets (like mine) eating it up. I'd say they should keep writing and recording if for no other reason than to keep the live set fresh. But they rarely play new tunes, especially when they do these triple bills where they barely do 90 minutes. Journey's a touring act now. They're out of the record business, and Jon's accepted it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The common denominator is NO PERRY. Journey won't get radio airplay or any solid sales with Arnel as frontman.

I don't recall Cain complaining about the sales of Revelation or the radio airplay of "After All These Years." I am pretty sure Cain is OK with moving on w/out Perry.

They're out of the record business, and Jon's accepted it.

Too bad for Jon. I suggest Neal write tunes with someone else, maybe Jack Blades.

[Yoda]

I disagree with Jon Cain about Eclipse. It wasn't that the album was too "rock" for American fans, it was simply that a lot of us couldn't connect with those songs. None of the songs are songs that would stick in your mind for years to come - not like Don't Stop Believing or Faithfully. Personally, I feel disconnected with most songs on Eclipse - but that's a message issue, not a musical direction issue. I love the edgier approach to the music - one that I felt Jeff Scott Soto would have thrived on if he had remained in the band. But, the fans have to feel some sort of connection with these songs.

I think maybe what Cain is feeling is the fact that he knows, in general, what it takes to write your standard classic Journey song, but it took someone like Perry to bring out the best that he had to offer as a songwriter. And in turn, Cain did the same for Perry. I think Cain recognizes that having that third song writer in the band makes all the difference in the world. While the band can write decent songs and albums without Perry, there is always something missing unless you invite a third collaborator like a Jack Blades.

[slucero]

...except Cains comment (and my post) wasn't referring to album size... it was referring to musical style....

And my comment is, Cain's been bitching about new albums regardless of their style. He bitched after Arrival (traditional Journey) and he bitched after Eclipse (guitar oriented Journey). What's the common denominator? Low album sales.

actually the common denominator is "no Perry"... but that's really the point isn't it?

[The_Noble_Cause]

...except Cains comment (and my post) wasn't referring to album size... it was referring to musical style....

And my comment is, Cain's been bitching about new albums regardless of their style. He bitched after Arrival (traditional Journey) and he bitched after Eclipse (guitar oriented Journey). What's the common denominator? Low album sales.

actually the common denominator is "no Perry"... but that's really the point isn't it?

If that were true then Jon would have been complaining about Revelation, which he did not. And it sold pretty well.

[Art Vandelay]

Aside from the back and forth on Behind the Music (and being deemed the trigger man to fire Perry), has there been any real animosity between Perry and Cain? Especially as of late, things seem to be somewhat cordial (when Cain speaks of Perry at least), nowhere near the contention that exists between Perry and Schon. When 'the journey' fizzles out for Cain, what are our possibilities for a Perry/Cain collaboration? After reading this interview, seems to me that it would make for a much more comfortable, less forced project for both of them. Cain seems to gravitate more naturally to the Adult-oriented pop side of things, which would definitely suit Perry's current vocal range. I know that I even threw out the idea of a stripped down Perry/Schon fantasy project...but something tells me that anything that they would do together would scream 'pity party' from the Schon camp, because he would have to hold back on wanting to rock out on a level that is beyond Perry's interest.

Waddaya think?

[FamilyMan]

Aside from the back and forth on Behind the Music (and being deemed the trigger man to fire Perry), has there been any real animosity between Perry and Cain? Especially as of late, things seem to be somewhat cordial (when Cain speaks of Perry at least), nowhere near the contention that exists between Perry and Schon. When 'the journey' fizzles out for Cain, what are our possibilities for a Perry/Cain collaboration? After reading this interview, seems to me that it would make for a much more comfortable, less forced project for both of them. Cain seems to gravitate more naturally to the Adult-oriented pop side of things, which would definitely suit Perry's current vocal range. I know that I even threw out the idea of a stripped down Perry/Schon fantasy project...but something tells me that anything that they would do together would scream 'pity party' from the Schon camp, because he would have to hold back on wanting to rock out on a level that is beyond Perry's interest.

Waddaya think?

Can't see that. Perry, I'm guessing, holds him partly responsible for carrying on the Journey name without him. And for that matter, I'll believe this Perry comeback project when I see it.

[Pacfanweb]

Neal has always done the same thing. When he was doing Hardline, he complained that John Waite "took the guitars out of the mix" and made it poppy with Bad English. In the same interview back then, he said Perry did the same thing with Journey. When he did Personal Jesus with Sammy Hagar recently, he had something to say about Sammy adding in the background singers and changing the dynamic of the song.

Not the same thing. Cain has expressed regret over the state of the music industry and whether creating new music is viable. Neal has never stopped creating new music, solo or otherwise.

It IS the same thing, you just missed what I was talking about.

Cain referenced Neal steering the album to be more "Rock". "Neal always wants to rock".

I said that Neal has always been like that, and complained in the two biggest bands he's been in, other than Santana, about them not rocking hard enough. (Journey and Bad English)

[Yoda]

If Neal wants to rock that badly, why doesn't he just join a heavy metal band?

[Eric]

If Neal wants to rock that badly, why doesn't he just join a heavy metal band?

You don't think that there is a happy medium between Open Arms part 50 and heavy metal?