Breaking the Band: JOURNEY

[bellairepark73]

Teaser Trailer for Sunday, April 26, 2020, 8pm ET/PT on Reelz
https://youtu.be/RNMbD2gTTKE

Looks like a mini movie-version of the National Enquirer with some facts but mostly tabloid. But...it might be ok to watch.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Looks pretty good. Thanks. VH1 should update some of the BTM episodes including the Journey one.

[Art Vandelay]

The cringe-worthy reenactment scenes are gonna make this tough to watch.

[youkeepmewaiting]

The cringe worthy reenactments will be the best bit!

We all the know the rest

[Monker]

I've seen this a few times now advertising this episode, and the series. So, it may get a bit of attention.

It really seems to be a rise/fall of the Perry era....basically a rehash of the BTM. Some of the things being said make me doubt Perry was involved. The commentators are making him into an incredibly insecure person who needed control. Then Jonathan comes out with the out of control ego comment. I bet Perry is pissed about it. Was that Pat Marrow or Joel Selvin making some comments? Also, didn't see Herbie...and I have a feeling he would have loved to zing some one liners in this...or, maybe they kept the best bits for the actual show.

What happened to the gag order? Maybe it expired, LOL.

I guess it's ironic timing due to the latest fiasco...but I have to wonder if there was really any time to edit in anything about all of the lawsuits going around....I think not.

[Memorex]

I've seen this a few times now advertising this episode, and the series. So, it may get a bit of attention.

It really seems to be a rise/fall of the Perry era....basically a rehash of the BTM. Some of the things being said make me doubt Perry was involved. The commentators are making him into an incredibly insecure person who needed control. Then Jonathan comes out with the out of control ego comment. I bet Perry is pissed about it. Was that Pat Marrow or Joel Selvin making some comments? Also, didn't see Herbie...and I have a feeling he would have loved to zing some one liners in this...or, maybe they kept the best bits for the actual show.

What happened to the gag order? Maybe it expired, LOL.

I guess it's ironic timing due to the latest fiasco...but I have to wonder if there was really any time to edit in anything about all of the lawsuits going around....I think not.

That's Herbie at the 18 second mark.

This seems lame to me.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I've seen this a few times now advertising this episode, and the series. So, it may get a bit of attention.

It really seems to be a rise/fall of the Perry era....basically a rehash of the BTM. Some of the things being said make me doubt Perry was involved. The commentators are making him into an incredibly insecure person who needed control. Then Jonathan comes out with the out of control ego comment. I bet Perry is pissed about it. Was that Pat Marrow or Joel Selvin making some comments? Also, didn't see Herbie...and I have a feeling he would have loved to zing some one liners in this...or, maybe they kept the best bits for the actual show.

What happened to the gag order? Maybe it expired, LOL.

I guess it's ironic timing due to the latest fiasco...but I have to wonder if there was really any time to edit in anything about all of the lawsuits going around....I think not.

The Cain quote is edited in the ad to make it seem like he's talking about Perry. We don't really know. He just references somebody's ego. Most likely Perry, but we don't know that yet.

Herbie appears twice in the ad.

[Monker]

Herbie looks so different I didn't recognize him.

[ebake02]

I hope Steve didn’t watch that, they sure made him look pretty bad. They made him look like a power hungry control freak dictator asshole. Sadly though, most of it is probably true.

[scarab]

I hope MR Paula White isnt the only band member interviewed.

[Monker]

Did anybody watch this? It was supposed to be on tonight. I don't get Reelz. But, when I look on the Reelz Roku app, Journey wasn't listed.

[Monker]

I hope Steve didn’t watch that, they sure made him look pretty bad. They made him look like a power hungry control freak dictator asshole. Sadly though, most of it is probably true.

\\

There is a second clip on Youtube that may be even worse for Perry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDej9uE ... br&index=1

[Art Vandelay]

It wasn't as much of a Perry bashing as I had expected. The worst of the focus on him was during the ROR sessions, and I don't think it's a secret that he wasn't in his right frame of mind at that point anyway. Even Jonathan Cain implies in his book that Perry didn't want back in the band so they lured him back with whatever he wanted...and so Perry took the reigns. All or nothing.

But I don't really see this documentary doing the band much good or any favors. You got Herbie and Pat Morrow sharing stories, and I wouldn't say that either were extremely critical of Perry...not as much as Herbie could have possibly been IMO. They've spent years and years working to get out from under Perry's shadow, and yet this show makes it sound like the band died with Perry leaving. They didn't even acknowledge Augeri or Arnel. Just that the band continued for another 30 years, including a short lived reunion with Perry in '96,

The Hall of Fame was good closure for that era. Props were given to the old regime and the new blood. They should have kept it that way.

[Sighlence]

It wasn't as much of a Perry bashing as I had expected.

I'd have to disagree. I thought it was BTM with more juice. They even felt the need to go after Sherrie Swafford. Why it even aired is beyond me.

[Journey/Survivor]

Most of what was said is stuff that most of us already knew. There were only two things during the broadcast that I didn't already know. Those two things were that Perry and Dunbar got into an argument during the 1978 PBS broadcast. I have that show on a VHS tape, but you don't see them arguing on the PBS broadcast.
The other thing that I didn't know was that the rest of Journey didn't know about the Schon & Hammer album until the "No More Lies" video came on on TV.

Although, if Neal had already asked the rest of Journey about using "Self Defense," then you'd think that they'd know about the album being made.

In fact, now that I think about it, the Schon & Hammer album "Here To Stay" was the second Schon & Hammer album, and that's what "No More Lies" was on. So Schon had already made an album with Hammer before that, and the rest of the band certainly knew about the first album before the second album came out.

[MysteryMountain]

I watched, and I actually enjoy this series as a whole. I think it was made pretty clear that after Escape, Steve held all the cards. From making Herbie change the artwork for Frontiers which was so ridiculous, to basically making ROR a Steve Perry album, I thought the episode made clear who was "breaking the band". Perry was certainly the guy who broke up Journey, no matter what his sycophants say. If you wanted that Journey money, you bowed down to Perry, and of course they all did because who didn't love Journey money at that time??

There were a couple title cards at the end of the episode mentioning the current law suits.

I came to the realization after this that, Escape was the last TRUE Journey album. Frontiers was the last Journey album. ROR was a Perry album. Everything since doesn't even count.

Personally, I wish Neal would just run with a JTT project, the best thing that's been done since Escape.

[ebake02]

I watched, and I actually enjoy this series as a whole. I think it was made pretty clear that after Escape, Steve held all the cards. From making Herbie change the artwork for Frontiers which was so ridiculous, to basically making ROR a Steve Perry album, I thought the episode made clear who was "breaking the band". Perry was certainly the guy who broke up Journey, no matter what his sycophants say. If you wanted that Journey money, you bowed down to Perry, and of course they all did because who didn't love Journey money at that time??

There were a couple title cards at the end of the episode mentioning the current law suits.

I came to the realization after this that, Escape was the last TRUE Journey album. Frontiers was the last Journey album. ROR was a Perry album. Everything since doesn't even count.

Personally, I wish Neal would just run with a JTT project, the best thing that's been done since Escape.

I noticed that they left out the part about Perry holding the band hostage a second time during Trial By Fire and being responsible for Herbie losing his job as manager.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I came to the realization after this that, Escape was the last TRUE Journey album. Frontiers was the last Journey album. ROR was a Perry album. Everything since doesn't even count.

I think everything the band has done post-SP has been pretty decent.

Personally, I wish Neal would just run with a JTT project, the best thing that's been done since Escape.

He can't. That's what started all these lawsuits and Ross/Smitty getting fired.

[Lora]

I hope MR Paula White isnt the only band member interviewed.

Yes, he was the only band member who contributed. The only new interviews were those of Herbie Herbert, Pat Morrow, Joel Selvin, and Jon Cain. And, of course, the show's resident contributors (cringe).

They contacted Cyndy and I months ago and asked if we wanted to participate and said they would send out a film crew. We declined. I would assume others who were contacted declined as well.

I enjoyed Pat Morrow's insights. He was able to share some of his experiences in a respectful way. I thought the recreation of Mary's death was inappropriate and in very poor taste.

There were a couple of inaccuracies in the program but overall, they got things historically correct for the most-part and considering the amount of time they had. It is obvious what the modus operandi of that series is, so it was pretty much what I expected to see and why I declined to be part of it.

[Monker]

Lora, can you please reply to the recent thread about the Kevin Challfant video? It is said to be from the Herbie roast from years ago....but there is a question if it is.

[Journey/Survivor]

I hope MR Paula White isnt the only band member interviewed.

Yes, he was the only band member who contributed. The only new interviews were those of Herbie Herbert, Pat Morrow, Joel Selvin, and Jon Cain. And, of course, the show's resident contributors (cringe).

They contacted Cyndy and I months ago and asked if we wanted to participate and said they would send out a film crew. We declined. I would assume others who were contacted declined as well.

I enjoyed Pat Morrow's insights. He was able to share some of his experiences in a respectful way. I thought the recreation of Mary's death was inappropriate and in very poor taste.

There were a couple of inaccuracies in the program but overall, they got things historically correct for the most-part and considering the amount of time they had. It is obvious what the modus operandi of that series is, so it was pretty much what I expected to see and why I declined to be part of it.

When I saw the reenactment of Steve's mothers death I was thinking "I hope Steve's not watching this." That would have to be tough to watch.

[JourneyHard]

I just watched this last night. The funny thing is I didn't even know I had REELZ channel. Maybe they added it recently.

The more I think about it, I think it is Herbie's fault for letting Perry get so much power. In 1985, Herbie should have kicked Perry out of the band. He could have replaced him with Kevin Chalfant and then they could have made the Freedom album, and toured. I don't know what Kevin was doing in 1985, but I am sure he would drop everything to be in Journey. Perry could have made solo albums while Journey continued on with Kevin. Of course, this would mean there was no Bad English and no Storm.

[Monker]

I just watched this last night. The funny thing is I didn't even know I had REELZ channel. Maybe they added it recently.

The more I think about it, I think it is Herbie's fault for letting Perry get so much power. In 1985, Herbie should have kicked Perry out of the band. He could have replaced him with Kevin Chalfant and then they could have made the Freedom album, and toured. I don't know what Kevin was doing in 1985, but I am sure he would drop everything to be in Journey. Perry could have made solo albums while Journey continued on with Kevin. Of course, this would mean there was no Bad English and no Storm.

I don't remember if one of those old Herbie interviews (Castle's Burning) talked about this. What it seems to me what happened is they wanted Perry back and basically gave him control. So, Neal and Jonathan somewhat enabled Perry...they could have backed Perry or Herbie and they chose Perry. In 1985, I doubt they would have taken Chalfant because they didn't really know him, other than maybe Cain from the 707 song....It is more likely they would have chosen Michael Bolton. There were also rumors of Micky Thomas and even Patty Smyth from Scandal. Maybe it was somewhat like Styx where they couldn't find a suitable replacement so they decided to put up with Perry rather than taking a chance with someone new.

[Journey/Survivor]

Around 1985 Kevin Chalfant was in The V.U with Ross Valory. Praire Prince was also in the band, and Josh Ramos guested on a couple of songs. That was of course pre- The Storm.

I know that Gregg Rolie has also mentioned knowing Kevin Chalfant back in like the late 1970s or at least the very early 80s.

So I would imagine that Schon and Cain were aware of Chalfant in 1985.

[Journey/Survivor]

Mickey Thomas could have been a good choice for Journey as long as they weren't going for a Perry soundalike. Thomas probably could have done a good job on Perry's vocals, though. I've heard Eric Martin named before as a possibility for Journey in the late 80s.

I think that both Thomas and Martin would have been good choices for Journey as long as they weren't expected to be Perry soundalikes. I just can't imagine Michael Bolton in Journey. Although, I know that he had been rumored for Journey at the time, and had worked with Neal, Jonathan, and I think two or more of Randy Jackson, Mike Baird and Mugs Cain on one of Bolton's solo albums?

[Monker]

Around 1985 Kevin Chalfant was in The V.U with Ross Valory. Praire Prince was also in the band, and Josh Ramos guested on a couple of songs. That was of course pre- The Storm.

I know that Gregg Rolie has also mentioned knowing Kevin Chalfant back in like the late 1970s or at least the very early 80s.

So I would imagine that Schon and Cain were aware of Chalfant in 1985.

That is all true. Also, Jonathan is a cowriter on Megaforce from 707, when Chalfant was a member back in 1982. But, I do not know how much they worked together on that song.

I guess what I am saying is that Chalfant was not really on their radar until after the Herbie roast. I have never heard of Kevin being considered prior to 1992 or so. He obviously would have been a good fit, but I do not think Journey was looking at him between ROR and Frontiers.

Someone else mentioned Eric Martin. That is also a name I have heard that was considered. He toured with Journey a bit and Herbie was his manager...so I can see him being considered, too.

[Monker]

Mickey Thomas could have been a good choice for Journey as long as they weren't going for a Perry soundalike. Thomas probably could have done a good job on Perry's vocals, though. I've heard Eric Martin named before as a possibility for Journey in the late 80s.

I think that both Thomas and Martin would have been good choices for Journey as long as they weren't expected to be Perry soundalikes. I just can't imagine Michael Bolton in Journey. Although, I know that he had been rumored for Journey at the time, and had worked with Neal, Jonathan, and I think two or more of Randy Jackson, Mike Baird and Mugs Cain on one of Bolton's solo albums?

Yes, all of them are credited on "The HuAnger". Neal, Jonthan, Randy Jackson and bothMike Baird and Mugs Cain are credited.

Also, way back then, I remember when Bolton was on David Letterman's show. Dave introduced him as "Michael Bolton and the guy from Journey." He meant Neal. Always thought that was hilarious.

[JourneyHard]

The other weird thing from this REELZ documentary was when they called Journey music before Perry as "nerd music." What does that mean? The long guitar and keyboard solos of early Journey was probably loved by pot smokers. So, are they saying if you smoke pot you are a nerd?

I loved early Journey as well as what came after. I don't know how anybody can relate loving any of this music to being a nerd. Unless today, it is cool to be a nerd. Maybe they meant that.

[Journey/Survivor]

The other weird thing from this REELZ documentary was when they called Journey music before Perry as "nerd music." What does that mean? The long guitar and keyboard solos of early Journey was probably loved by pot smokers. So, are they saying if you smoke pot you are a nerd?

I loved early Journey as well as what came after. I don't know how anybody can relate loving any of this music to being a nerd. Unless today, it is cool to be a nerd. Maybe they meant that.

I think that they meant that Journey's music on those 3 albums was very complex and sophisticated. You had to be a top notch musician to be able to play that music. I'm sure that it was not intended to be an insult to Journey or their fans.

In fact, I've heard Rush's music referred to as "nerd music" before.

[chynablue]

That is all true. Also, Jonathan is a cowriter on Megaforce from 707, when Chalfant was a member back in 1982. But, I do not know how much they worked together on that song.

Keith Olsen brought Cain in to do the intro, as part of the Megaforce movie soundtrack. Cain brought in a pre-recorded piece - he didn't actually play it in the studio. 707 was unaware that Keith had negotiated a co-write credit to Cain for this, and were pretty pissed about it.