Can we get real about the Houston dvd?????????????

[perryfaithful]

Only a retard would think so...

- Fred

and you are a teacher Fred? tsk, tsk

Don't even start, PF.

Actually, "retarded" is becoming, once again, politically correct. In the field of education, there are more monikers and abbreviations and acronyms and associations than probably any other field out there...AND they are ALWAYS changing.

And if you actually take the time to READ this thread, I wasn't the first one to use the term. I simply reiterated it, for the purpose of pointing out the ridiculousness of its use in this instance (sorry that slipped by you, but I should have reminded myself of the caliber of some of the individuals who post here). If you don't like my use of the word, take it up with the individual who started this thread by claiming that anyone who has the mundacity to believe that the current Journey is as good as the one from 1981 is - quote - retarded. Oh wait, you wouldn't do that because you happen to AGREE with that assessment. Talk about demagoguery...

Now, I did not attack you. I responded to a post without attacking anyone specifically. You attacked me. Does it end now, or do you want to continue...?

- Fred

what...feelin' like a "Fred" day??

Nice try, but you called certain fans retards, not just reiterated someone else's words. And this bull about the word "retard" as you and others used it here as acceptable these days? Not in my world, do not know what level you are living on.

Fred didn't use the term, "retard" first. Free did.
Take your selective critical eye and shove it.

Back to pre school for you guys. It is OK to do something wrong as long as you were not the FIRST?? Huh?

BTW, I said Fred AND OTHERS

LMAO

[jrnyman28]

Back to pre school for you guys. It is OK to do something wrong as long as you were not the FIRST?? Huh?

BTW, I said Fred AND OTHERS

LMAO

You didn't include "others" in your first post. And why don't you address the fact that you let the use of the word "retard" go UNTIL Fred used it? It is obvious you had NO problem letting someone call JOURNEY fans retards, but when the table was turned to PERRY fans then you opened your mouth. Problem is, you stuck your foot full into your big mouth!

[NealIsGod]

[quote="fred_journeyman"]the word "retarded" is coming back into usage by professionals and paraprofessionals alike within the educational system. [/b].

It's sweeping the nation!

[PROPERRY]

I have a question, do any of you have a family member or know someone close to you that is mentally retarded or developmentally disabled???

Lori

[NealIsGod]

I have a question, do any of you have a family member or know someone close to you that is mentally retarded or developmentally disabled???

Lori

Just classicstyxfan...

[jrnyman28]

I have a question, do any of you have a family member or know someone close to you that is mentally retarded or developmentally disabled???

Lori

Shhhhhh, don't say "retarded".

[PROPERRY]

I really should have never asked that question seeing how some here seem to have no sensitivity, but that really doesn't suprise me that is the world we live into today.

Lori

[r@y]

I have a question, do any of you have a family member or know someone close to you that is mentally retarded or developmentally disabled???

Lori

Yes, I do.

It was a difficult time taking care of him all those years he was alive till he left us a couple of years back....

well, anyway....let's not get too carried away with these 'terms'....it is after all, as Dean said, only a message board...

Take it easy...

Ray.

[fred_journeyman]

Back to pre school for you guys. It is OK to do something wrong as long as you were not the FIRST?? Huh?

BTW, I said Fred AND OTHERS

LMAO

No, you did not use the word "OTHERS." The truth remains that your hypocritical finger-pointing totally ignored Free's first use of the word. In fact, the use of the term didn't even bother you apparently until it was used in my post. Your problem has nothing to do with the word "retard," but simply the fact that I posted...and it's YOUR problem so deal with it.

Fred

[fred_journeyman]

CHILDREN WHO ARE MENTALLY RETARDED
No. 23 (Updated July 2004)
The term "mental retardation" is often misunderstood and seen as derogatory. Some think that retardation is diagnosed only on the basis of below-normal intelligence (IQ), and that persons with mental retardation are unable to learn or to care for themselves. Actually, in order to be diagnosed as a person with mental retardation, the person has to have both significantly low IQ and considerable problems in everyday functioning. Most children with mental retardation can learn a great deal, and as adults can lead at least partially independent lives. Most individuals with mental retardation have only the mild level of mental retardation. Mental retardation may be complicated by several different physical and emotional problems. The child may also have difficulty with hearing, sight or speech.

In the past, parents were often advised to institutionalize a child with significant mental retardation. Today, the goal is to help the child with mental retardation stay in the family and take part in community life. In most states, the law guarantees them educational and other services at public expense.

It is very important that the child has a comprehensive evaluation to find out about his or her strengths and needs. Since no specialist has all the necessary skills, many professionals might be involved. General medical tests as well as tests in areas such as neurology (the nervous system), psychology, psychiatry, special education, hearing, speech and vision, and physical therapy are useful. A pediatrician or a child and adolescent psychiatrist often coordinates these tests.

These physicians refer the child for the necessary tests and consultations, put together the results, and jointly with the family and the school develop a comprehensive treatment and education plan.

Emotional and behavioral disorders may be associated with mental retardation, and they may interfere with the child's progress. Most children with mental retardation recognize that they are behind others of their own age. Some may become frustrated, withdrawn or anxious, or act "bad" to get the attention of other youngsters and adults. Adolescents and young adults with mental retardation may become depressed. These persons might not have enough language skills to talk about their feelings, and their depression may be shown by new problems, for instance in their behavior, eating and sleeping.

Early diagnosis of psychiatric disorders in children with mental retardation leads to early treatment. Medications can be helpful as one part of overall treatment and management of children with mental retardation.

Periodic consultation with a child and adolescent psychiatrist may help the family in setting appropriate expectations, limits, opportunities to succeed, and other measures which will help their child with mental retardation handle the stresses of growing up.

For additional information see Facts for Families:
#69 Asperger's Disorder,
#21 Psychiatric Medications for Children,
#45 Lead Exposure in Children Affects Brain and Behavior,
#11 The Child With Autism, and
#16 Children with Learning Disabilities.
See also:
Your Child (1998 Harper Collins)/Your Adolescent (1999 Harper Collins).

[Marabelle]

i know enough to know that being "learning disabled" or "intellectually challenged" is not enough to make a child die it's usually the physical
handicap which sometimes is associated with the disability. Two different things and two different diagnoses.

[fred_journeyman]

CARC stands for Chicago Association for Retarded Citizens.

http://www.cri-usa.org/
- serving persons with mental retardation (byline from their website)

On their main page, underneath a photo is this caption:
"We provide opportunities which promote individual choice, personal growth and community involvement for persons with mental retardation."

[fred_journeyman]

The AAMR Definition of Mental Retardation

Mental retardation is a disability characterized by significant limitations both in intellectual functioning and in adaptive behavior as expressed in conceptual, social, and practical adaptive skills.

This disability originates before age 18.

Five Assumptions Essential to the Application of the Definition

1. Limitations in present functioning must be considered within the context of community environments typical of the individual's age peers and culture.
2. Valid assessment considers cultural and linguistic diversity as well as differences in communication, sensory, motor, and behavioral factors.
3. Within an individual, limitations often coexist with strengths.
4. An important purpose of describing limitations is to develop a profile of needed supports.
5. With appropriate personalized supports over a sustained period, the life functioning of the person with mental retardation generally will improve.

©2002 American Association on Mental Retardation.

[fred_journeyman]

What is Mental Retardation? (January 2004)

Mental retardation is a term used when a person has certain limitations in mental functioning and in skills such as communicating, taking care of him or herself, and social skills. These limitations will cause a child to learn and develop more slowly than a typical child. Children with mental retardation may take longer to learn to speak, walk, and take care of their personal needs such as dressing or eating. They are likely to have trouble learning in school. They will learn, but it will take them longer. There may be some things they cannot learn.

[fred_journeyman]

http://www.vor.net/

"For people with mental retardation and their families."

[fred_journeyman]

Understanding Mental Retardation by Ainsworth & Baker MDs
(published 2004)

Mental Retardation (6th Edition) published 2001

Mental Retardation: A LifeSpan Approach to People with Intellectual Disabilities, Eighth Edition (Hardcover) published 2003

Mental Retardation in America: A Historical Reader published 2004

Mental Retardation : An Introduction to Intellectual Disability published 2005

Mental Retardation : Historical Perspectives, Current Practices, and Future Directions published by August 2004

Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender People With Developmental Disabilities and Mental Retardation: Stories of the Rainbow Support Group published 2003

Mental Retardation And Developmental Delay: Genetic And Epigenetic Factors published October 2005

Guidebook on Helping Persons with Mental Retardation Mourn: The Everlasting Things in Life and Death published November 2004

My Name Is Not Slow: Youth With Mental Retardation published April 2004

A quantitative analysis of motor developmental delays by adolescents with mild mental retardation.(Research Application) : An article from: Palaestra (magazine article published January 2005)

Do I need to keep going, or do you get it now?

Fred

[PROPERRY]

I have a question, do any of you have a family member or know someone close to you that is mentally retarded or developmentally disabled???

Lori

Yes, I do.

It was a difficult time taking care of him all those years he was alive till he left us a couple of years back....

well, anyway....let's not get too carried away with these 'terms'....it is after all, as Dean said, only a message board...

Take it easy...

Ray.

Ray,

I'm so very, very sorry about the loss of your son. That must have been extremely difficult for you. I have a 22 yr old daughter with developmental disabilities, & chronic health problems.

It really isn't the word mental retardation that offends me because that is just a word that describes a disability. It only becomes offensive to me when the word is used in a "negative way" to ridicule and demean someone else.

Lori

[The_Noble_Cause]

I have a question, do any of you have a family member or know someone close to you that is mentally retarded or developmentally disabled???

Lori

Yeah, actually I do, so take your faux puritanical concern and go eat a ding - dong.

[Rockindeano]

So now that our intellectual board has turned a corner into the field of child psychology and labels,

What kind of retardation does George W have?

[perryfaithful]

Back to pre school for you guys. It is OK to do something wrong as long as you were not the FIRST?? Huh?

BTW, I said Fred AND OTHERS

LMAO

You didn't include "others" in your first post. And why don't you address the fact that you let the use of the word "retard" go UNTIL Fred used it? It is obvious you had NO problem letting someone call JOURNEY fans retards, but when the table was turned to PERRY fans then you opened your mouth. Problem is, you stuck your foot full into your big mouth!

All this scrambling to defend posters here calling people "retards" for their opinions......very sad! Dave, telling me that I cannot express my dismay that Fred used the term without admonishing everyone else who MAY have used it is ridiculous. I have not reviewed this entire thread and if there are others, same deal to them! But demanding that I give them equal time is really digging deep. Also, your remark about my "big mouth" is very unbecoming to you. You discuss all versions of Journey with class usually, positive AND negative. When your image falls apart when you try to defend the rude behavior of others by diverting attention away from them and picking apart the guy who points out the rudeness. Didn't think that was your style. Fred must have some kind of hold on you! Break Free!

[NealIsGod]

Hey, PC people, let me fill you in...

When you draw attention to something you don't agree with, you feed it. You make it grow. If you ignore it, it goes away.

For example, there is a book that is being banned from a Baltimore middle school b/c it has some obscenities in it, and it deals with teenage issues of sex and morality in a very real world way. So, now that the principal banned it, there has been a story on the news and all the kids are clamoring to read it. Had he just ignored it, only a handful of kids would have read it.

[jrnyman28]

All this scrambling to defend posters here calling people "retards" for their opinions......very sad!

I don't see "scrambling".

Dave, telling me that I cannot express my dismay that Fred used the term without admonishing everyone else who MAY have used it is ridiculous. I have not reviewed this entire thread

You don't have to review the entire thread...it was in the first post! So you apparantly skipped the entire thread until Fred post. Sounds to me like you are purposely attacking only Fred!

and if there are others, same deal to them! But demanding that I give them equal time is really digging deep.

How do you figure, when it was the FIRST post?! You are lying, it is obvious! And if you truly did not read the rest of the thread then you should have kept your mouth shut. Because you were obviously not educated enough to comment.

Also, your remark about my "big mouth" is very unbecoming to you.

I guess your posts just bring out the best in me. Your personal agenda against Fred is obvious and "unbecoming" of YOU!

You discuss all versions of Journey with class usually, positive AND negative.

But this has nothing to do with Journey. It has to do with your petty behaviour against Fred. It has to do with your smug and your "holier than thou" attitude. Except, you were not being consistent. If you want to adress the issue, adress it with everyone! As I said, if you were truly unaware of the usage of the word in the rest of the thread, then you should have stayed out of it.

When your image falls apart when you try to defend the rude behavior of others by diverting attention away from them and picking apart the guy who points out the rudeness.

To be honest, I have no idea whatyou are trying to say!

Didn't think that was your style. Fred must have some kind of hold on you! Break Free!

Fred has no hold on me...but he apparantly pushes your buttons rather easily! Maybe you should just "let it go"...

[NoMoreTails]

I guess you aren't retarded then. It's also a good sign that you haven't heard anyone who thinks current Journey is as good as 81. Was beginning to think we got some retards on here.

The only "retards" I've heard recently are the ones who - after having heard Steve Perry sing at the recent world series celebration - said that Perry sounded "GREAT!"

Sadly, he didn't sound great. Only a retard would think so...

- Fred

Fred's first post in this thread plainly shows that he wasn't the first to use the word as he included Free's quote. Even if one did not see the first post in this thread, Fred obviously was pointing out the word shouldn't have been used in the first place.
His only "offense" is that he included a derogatory, but very true, comment about Perry.

[Rockindeano]

You have got to be shitting me.

This PC crap is waaaay out of hand.

Yes retardation is serious and sensitive, but who here gives a shit? Free was talking about us being "backwards" and not being very smart.

ProPerry, you need to check yourself...seriously, I know there is absolutely NOTHING for you to talk about, because Perry is nowhere to be found, so now you have promoted yourself along with some other Heads to be the MR-Journey PC police. here's some advice...Screw yourself. This thread was doing fine until you and your buddies poked your pointed beaks in here and started sqwaking your cackling bullshit...I swear, you "people" have nothing to say..You are nothing but Yentas...

I swear, if you would give the band a chance, you just might like them well enough to join in on current musical talk, not just hit and run like you d now.



By the way, when I see the midgets, drunks and retards on Howard, I laugh my ass off uncontrollably.

[fred_journeyman]

Okay, let's get this back on track - ACCORDING TO FREE, okay? Good.

I'm going to type this very slowly for those of you who have a difficult time reading for meaning (and you know who you are, but if there's a question, feel free to raise your hand)...

Let's go point by point WITH FREE:

I just read where somebody said that current Journey is just as good as the Houston concert was.

Really? Where did you read that?

Come on....................you either gotta be retarded, in total denial of reality or both to think that...

Oops! Ow, that's gotta hurt somebody! What in THEE hell is Free trying to say with that statement? Son of a bee-otch! I just do not know what to make of THAT! Shee-it!

The problem for FREE seems to be that anyone who believes that the current Journey is as good as the they were at the Houston concert is RETARDED (emphasis added). So an opinion that differs from Free's in this instance means that the person stating said opinion is simply wrong (for one of the reasons Free listed). I see...

Hmmm, let's investigate that for a minute. Is today's Journey "just as good" as yesterday's?

In spite of Free's narrow statements, the response to that question is obviously based on opinion (as is the original author's questionable stance and perfunctory assessment of today's Journey fan), but the short answer is - YES

Why?
• The musicianship has improved. As good as Journey was two decades ago, they sound better today.
• Jon Cain (one of the chief architects of ESCAPE) is still with the group and so is Neal AND Ross.
• This version of Journey has jelled and obviously works together as one cohesive unit.
• Against all odds, Journey continues to produce music and perform live, in spite of the FACT that they were given one year (then two years, then three, then finally "Well, this is the LAST year..." etc.) by the small group of detractors.
• It is my belief that if today's Journey was given half of the promotion that yesterday's Journey enjoyed, GENERATIONS and ARRIVAL would be household names for AOR afficionados.

I'll wait a minute for some of you to catch up...(hums to self...hum hum hum hum hum hum hum hum hum hum hum)

Ready? Good. Next point from our illustrious author:

Why does it hurt some of you so much to realize that Houston 81 was Journey at its total peak?

This statement of course presupposes that it DOES hurt when it doesn't. Many, many, MANY of today's Journey fans have admitted FREELY (no pun intended) that Escape was the apex of Journey's musical catalog. Others will FREELY testify that Escape was a brand new direction for Journey (certainly thanks in part to Jon Cain) and that album was hard to best. Everyone has their favorite and for the starter of this thread, it's obvious that Escape beats out everything that came before or after it. That's fine, but that belief is not universal (nor is it often based in fact) and to imply that it SHOULD be is the height of arrogance.

And with all due respect, Journey has a singer that can't even cover all the hit songs. So my goodness, just use your critical thinking skills before saying something retarded.

Ooh, there's that word again:) Tsk, tsk, tsk. But setting that word aside for now, what is FREE really saying? Free is saying that Steve Augeri cannot cover all the hit songs, ergo Journey is not as good as they were in 1981. Well, I surely hope you all have your seatbelts on because if Steve Perry was still with Journey today, he would not be able to cover half of what Augeri easily covers. Therefore, Free would have to admit that today's Journey (even if Perry was still with the group) would not be as good today as they were in 1981. Oh the horrors of it all...truth can be brutal.

Yet GENERATIONS (for me) is as much Journey as Escape continues to be. ARRIVAL was hit and miss, but not GENERATIONS. I can't wait for the next one.

I still can't believe that somebody has actually fooled themselves into believing that the current line up is as good as they were in 81. Geesh...........

My goodness, such demagoguery! So, if people do NOT agree with FREE, then those individuals are retarded, do not use critical thinking skills and have themselves fooled. Now, that's interesting because it reminds me of the protesting by the Perry-Only (small) faction. Their only purpose is to stir up and attack those who hold a differing opinion.

Now that i'm off my soap box, was the Houston concert at the start, middle or end of the Escape tour?

Huh?! What?! You mean Free does NOT know the answer to THAT question?! Unbelievable. And apparently, does not possess the critical thinking skills to be able to look it up, but must rely on those who at once are included in a group that Free refers to as "retarded, do not use critical thinking skills and have themselves fooled." Wow.

Now, if you would be good enough to STOP trying to redirect (as some of you are determined to do when you have little in the way of intelligent discourse to add to the conversation), that would be just swell. Your redirection serves no purpose at all except to indicate to the reader that you have no ability to answer direct questions, so you throw up a smoke screen to cover your ass.

Truth be told, at least a few of you are out of your league on this board and your continued attacks on Journey fans have not only become old and tattered, but are hardly heard anymore because of your constant and repetitive bleating.

Go put on a Steve Perry CD and wallow in self-pity that there's nothing new coming from that camp, while Journey's catalog of music continues to grow, but you can't enjoy it...at least not out in the open.

- Fred

[fred_journeyman]

...ProPerry, you need to check yourself...seriously, I know there is absolutely NOTHING for you to talk about, because Perry is nowhere to be found, so now you have promoted yourself along with some other Heads to be the MR-Journey PC police. here's some advice...Screw yourself...

Hey RND,

You may not be aware that dear, sweet Lori and her two friends despise my presence, so their motivation is to simply attempt to cut me off at the pass, or drown me out, neither of which they've had success with before.

As long as I'm here, their anger will prompt them to show themselves to be the true assholes that they are and they simply can't help it. For all their love of Perry, he seems to bring out the worst in them, I guess.

As good as your advice is, she won't take it because her anger compels her. When she dies and stands before her god - Steve Perry - she believes she will be absolved of all her sin and will hear these mighty words - "Enter into the Perry-dise that I have prepared for you...oh worthy soldier!"

I'd be willing to bet that if she were busy helping in the wake of Katrina and found out that the person she was helping was a Journey fan, she'd probably let them drown. Such is the arrogance of the anger-filled Perry-Only fan.

Fred

[Rockindeano]

First post= Brilliant.

Second post= I agree....

[fred_journeyman]

So now that our intellectual board has turned a corner into the field of child psychology and labels,

What kind of retardation does George W have?

That's a study for the "historianisms" as they compile their "strategery"...

Fred

[Rockindeano]

So now that our intellectual board has turned a corner into the field of child psychology and labels,

What kind of retardation does George W have?

That's a study for the "historianisms" as they compile their "strategery"...

Fred

What are they gonna say bout the nuclar desision?

[PROPERRY]

So now that our intellectual board has turned a corner into the field of child psychology and labels,

What kind of retardation does George W have?

That's a study for the "historianisms" as they compile their "strategery"...

Fred

What are they gonna say bout the nuclar desision?

Well if a few of you would not have resorted to using such labels here, then the the thread would have never gone in this direction of( child psychology) in the first place.

So bringing this thread back to the "original topic" which was about the Houston DVD/CD, it sure is fantastic!!!!

Lori