Perry, Sony, Solo vs. Jrny and the TBF Fall Out

[Matthew]

Maybe Herbie's book or his contributions to somebody else's book that is coming out next year will give some idea of what happened...

I haven't heard about a HH book. Are there any details about it?

[Rockindeano]

Maybe Herbie's book or his contributions to somebody else's book that is coming out next year will give some idea of what happened...

I would say that is a very real probability.

I love reading the spin by the Perry Loons. My God, they guy had pipes and so what? To say he didn't go into TBF with the thought of saying "Fuck You" to people is absurd. he knew..He premedidtated his assfucking of neal, Jon, Smith, Ross, Me, TNC, NIG and all of the rest of us.

[Deb]

Maybe Herbie's book or his contributions to somebody else's book that is coming out next year will give some idea of what happened...

I would say that is a very real probability.

I love reading the spin ny the Perry Loons. My God, they guy had pipes andso what? To say he didn't go into TBF with the thought of saying "Fuck You" to people is absurd. he knew..He premedidtated his assfucking of neal, Jon, Smith, Ross, Me, TNC, NIG and all of the rest of us.

Well shit, why couldn't he have premeditated mine?

[SF-Dano]

He premedidtated his assfucking of neal, Jon, Smith, Ross, Me, TNC, NIG and all of the rest of us.

Well shit, why couldn't he have premeditated mine?

[Deb]

He premedidtated his assfucking of neal, Jon, Smith, Ross, Me, TNC, NIG and all of the rest of us.

Well shit, why couldn't he have premeditated mine?

Sorry been a long day........

[fredinator]

I don't know if I'm a Perryloon or not; I think I am trying to be reasonable?? Why in the world would he want to fuck everybody up? It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think I am that naive, but the amount of hatred and spite that would take between all of them to fuck each other up is incomprehensible. I'm having trouble saying what I'm thinking, I guess...

[Enigma869]

Well shit, why couldn't he have premeditated mine?

WHOA!!!!! How scandalous of you Let's go unwind from that long day


John from Boston

[Granny]

Maybe Herbie's book or his contributions to somebody else's book that is coming out next year will give some idea of what happened...

I would say that is a very real probability.

I love reading the spin by the Perry Loons. My God, they guy had pipes and so what? To say he didn't go into TBF with the thought of saying "Fuck You" to people is absurd. he knew..He premedidtated his assfucking of neal, Jon, Smith, Ross, Me, TNC, NIG and all of the rest of us.

Deano-that makes me very sad to think he didn't care about the fans.

[Matthew]

Maybe Herbie's book or his contributions to somebody else's book that is coming out next year will give some idea of what happened...

I would say that is a very real probability.

I love reading the spin ny the Perry Loons. My God, they guy had pipes andso what? To say he didn't go into TBF with the thought of saying "Fuck You" to people is absurd. he knew..He premedidtated his assfucking of neal, Jon, Smith, Ross, Me, TNC, NIG and all of the rest of us.

Well shit, why couldn't he have premeditated mine?

[Matthew]

I love reading the spin by the Perry Loons.

Great Deano. I've enjoyed reading your recent spin cycle on behalf of Neal Schon and Irving Azoff too.

To say he didn't go into TBF with the thought of saying "Fuck You" to people is absurd. he knew..He premedidtated his assfucking of neal, Jon, Smith, Ross, Me, TNC, NIG and all of the rest of us.

No-one is denying that it is highly likely that Perry gave Sony a "big FU". And Badcotune was right when he said Perry has a "skewed ego " and is a conflicted, complicated man.

When did Perry decide to exact his 'revenge'? We'll never know for sure. But it isn't "absurd" to believe he went into TBF wanting to make the project a success.

Does a million-selling album, a hit single and a Grammy nomination represent an "assfucking" to the band or the Journey fans on this site?

Yes, it's a shame that there wasn't a TBF tour and that the album didn't sell two million copies or however much it would have sold had Perry promoted it vigorously. And it's true that TBF itself wasn't as strong as previous Journey records.

But I'm still glad that the classic "Escape" line-up recorded one last album together and that - despite all the internal politics - Journey could still make an impact in the 1990s.

[Blueskies]

I don't know if I'm a Perryloon or not; I think I am trying to be reasonable?? Why in the world would he want to fuck everybody up? It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think I am that naive, but the amount of hatred and spite that would take between all of them to fuck each other up is incomprehensible. I'm having trouble saying what I'm thinking, I guess...

I get what you are saying. I don't think anything was premeditated or that SP set out to "get" his bandmate's.I think SP wanted to do it his way and Neal and Jon wanted him to do it their way. IMO that lead to argument's, misunderstanding's, and distrust. Feeling's were hurt on both side's. In this case they just stayed mad and closed the door on each other.....don't know who can be blamed because there is alway's 2 side's to every story. If you don't hear from both side's it's not really fair to make assumption's as fact. A band is like a family who fight's, but then they should have been able to come back together and resolved the issue and put it behind them.

[Matthew]

I don't think anything was premeditated or that SP set out to "get" his bandmate's.

It's also worth remembering that Steve Perry was the driving force behind the decision to hire Irving Azoff, the manager who had recently masterminded the successful comeback of The Eagles.

This suggests to me that Perry was deadly serious about making the reunion work at the outset.

[Rockindeano]

I don't think anything was premeditated or that SP set out to "get" his bandmate's.

It's also worth remembering that Steve Perry was the driving force behind the decision to hire Irving Azoff, the manager who had recently masterminded the successful comeback of The Eagles.

This suggests to me that Perry was deadly serious about making the reunion work at the outset.

You are joking right? Perry wanted Herbie out, because herbie didn't take any shit. Perry wanted to run things, so he brought Azoff onboard. Big deal, Azoff emgineered the Eagles comeback. Hell, with all the original members, I could engineer that comeback! And as far as your comment about Perry bringing in Azoff to take the band to the top again, why not keep the manager that got you to the top in the first place? As far as Journey is concerned, Herbie is a lot more accomplished that Azoff.

[treetopovskaya]

Maybe Herbie's book or his contributions to somebody else's book that is coming out next year will give some idea of what happened...

I would say that is a very real probability.

I love reading the spin by the Perry Loons. My God, they guy had pipes and so what? To say he didn't go into TBF with the thought of saying "Fuck You" to people is absurd. he knew..He premedidtated his assfucking of neal, Jon, Smith, Ross, Me, TNC, NIG and all of the rest of us.

Deano-that makes me very sad to think he didn't care about the fans.

don't be sad because it's not true. some people are just bitter. you can't live your life trying to make others happy or doing what others want or expect you to do... sp decided he needed to stop & take care of himself... it's his life he should be able to live it the way he wants to. we should be thankful he shared a big part of that life & his music with us. isn't there more important things to worry about anyway? bashing people you don't even know is just lame.

sp might have issues... so what. everyone here prolly has them too. we're only human. }:C)

[Rockindeano]

NO singer goes into a project with the mindset that he is only going to record and NOT tour. That doesn't make any sense. Perry owed one to Sony...make one more album to fulfill an obligation. We all know touring is the real money maker. Perry had enough bank. He knew by NOT touring, that he could stick it to Sony, and in the process, fulfill his contractual obligation.

If all you Perryheads want to start back up the "War" I am more than ready for that shit...Been there done that, and did it well.

[Matthew]

I don't think anything was premeditated or that SP set out to "get" his bandmate's.

It's also worth remembering that Steve Perry was the driving force behind the decision to hire Irving Azoff, the manager who had recently masterminded the successful comeback of The Eagles.

This suggests to me that Perry was deadly serious about making the reunion work at the outset.

You are joking right? Perry wanted Herbie out, because herbie didn't take any shit. Perry wanted to run things, so he brought Azoff onboard. Big deal, Azoff emgineered the Eagles comeback. Hell, with all the original members, I could engineer that comeback! And as far as your comment about Perry bringing in Azoff to take the band to the top again, why not keep the manager that got you to the top in the first place? As far as Journey is concerned, Herbie is a lot more accomplished that Azoff.

What was Herbie Herbert doing in the decade before TBF?

He might have been a big league manager in the late 70s/early 80s - but by the early 90s Azoff was the more powerful of the two men.

Herbert didn't take any shit from Perry? Well, I'd say he took plenty in the early to mid-80s.

[Matthew]

NO singer goes into a project with the mindset that he is only going to record and NOT tour. That doesn't make any sense.

Exactly. That's why I think it wasn't premeditated.

If all you Perryheads want to start back up the "War" I am more than ready for that shit...Been there done that, and did it well.

Bring it on.

[Rockindeano]

What was Herbie Herbert doing in the decade before TBF?

He might have been a big league manager in the late 70s/early 80s - but by the early 90s Azoff was the more powerful of the two men.

Herbert didn't take any shit from Perry? Well, I'd say he took plenty in the early to mid-80s.

Never said Herbie didn't take shit from Perry. Perry was clearly a pain in the ass to Herbie.

What was Herbie doing? He was promoting his other clients who wanted to work...Mr Big, who made it big, and also Roxette, who also made it big. Journey wasn't doing anything, because a certain member didn't feel like working. Herbie has an outstanding reputation and report card. When his clients worked, Herbie took them to the top, and no one can dispute that.

[Rockindeano]

Bring it on.

You will be rolled. Don't go there. I slayed all those other Bitches and I will slay your sorry ass as well, Euro.

[Rockindeano]

What was Herbie Herbert doing in the decade before TBF?

He might have been a big league manager in the late 70s/early 80s - but by the early 90s Azoff was the more powerful of the two men.

Herbert didn't take any shit from Perry? Well, I'd say he took plenty in the early to mid-80s.

Never said Herbie didn't take shit from Perry. Perry was clearly a pain in the ass to Herbie.

What was Herbie doing? He was promoting his other clients who wanted to work...Mr Big, who made it big, and also Roxette, who also made it big. Journey wasn't doing anything, because a certain member didn't feel like working. Herbie has an outstanding reputation and report card. When his clients worked, Herbie took them to the top, and no one can dispute that.

Okay - I forgot about the Mr Big and Roxette success. Fair enough. Do you know what Azoff did before the eagles reunion?

I am not saying Azoff is shit. I am saying however, pertaining to Journey, Herbie was its leader, and IMO, Journey would NEVER have gotten as big and been as successful if not for Herbie.

[Abitaman]

I don't think anything was premeditated or that SP set out to "get" his bandmate's.

It's also worth remembering that Steve Perry was the driving force behind the decision to hire Irving Azoff, the manager who had recently masterminded the successful comeback of The Eagles.

This suggests to me that Perry was deadly serious about making the reunion work at the outset.

You are joking right? Perry wanted Herbie out, because herbie didn't take any shit. Perry wanted to run things, so he brought Azoff onboard. Big deal, Azoff emgineered the Eagles comeback. Hell, with all the original members, I could engineer that comeback! And as far as your comment about Perry bringing in Azoff to take the band to the top again, why not keep the manager that got you to the top in the first place? As far as Journey is concerned, Herbie is a lot more accomplished that Azoff.

The Eagles reunion did not have all the orginal members, Randy Mesiner and Bernie Leadon were missing, and Timothy was a replacement, that ws with the group only on the Long Run cd. But like Journey, whose Perry, Cain, Schon, Ross, Smith was the best know, this last cd by the Eagles, was there most know-ERIC

[Matthew]

Never said Herbie didn't take shit from Perry. Perry was clearly a pain in the ass to Herbie.

Well, you did say: "Perry wanted Herbie out, because herbie didn't take any shit."

What was Herbie doing? He was promoting his other clients who wanted to work...Mr Big, who made it big, and also Roxette, who also made it big. Journey wasn't doing anything, because a certain member didn't feel like working. Herbie has an outstanding reputation and report card. When his clients worked, Herbie took them to the top, and no one can dispute that.

Fair enough. I forgot about his success with Roxette and Mr Big. Was was Azoff's track record like leading up to the Joureney reunion? I must check that out...

[Matthew]

I am not saying Azoff is shit. I am saying however, pertaining to Journey, Herbie was its leader, and IMO, Journey would NEVER have gotten as big and been as successful if not for Herbie.

I agree.

[Rockindeano]

Never said Herbie didn't take shit from Perry. Perry was clearly a pain in the ass to Herbie.

Well, you did say: "Perry wanted Herbie out, because herbie didn't take any shit."

That is exactly what I said.

Perry wanted complete and I mean COMPLEE control of Journey. Herbie had that control. Perry knew if he could jettison Herbert, he could do whatever the Hell he wanted and as history as shown, he did exactly that, and that includes ALL THE DRAMA of the TBF time era. Herbie would NEVER have allowed that shit to happen.

[Matthew]

Bring it on.

You will be rolled. Don't go there. I slayed all those other Bitches and I will slay your sorry ass as well, Euro.

Deano - many Perryhead "bitches" supported you when you sought their help in the early days of Tapegate...despite the fact that you had just been in some imaginary "war"...so I can't see where all your resentment is coming from.

As for my sorry ass...well, I'm not going to hold back on disagreeing with you for fear of you throwing a temper tantrum about it.

[Matthew]

Never said Herbie didn't take shit from Perry. Perry was clearly a pain in the ass to Herbie.

Well, you did say: "Perry wanted Herbie out, because herbie didn't take any shit."

That is exactly what I said.

Perry wanted complete and I mean COMPLEE control of Journey. Herbie had that control. Perry knew if he could jettison Herbert, he could do whatever the Hell he wanted and as history as shown, he did exactly that, and that includes ALL THE DRAMA of the TBF time era. Herbie would NEVER have allowed that shit to happen.

Sure - no-one can deny Perry's control-freakery...but HH surrendered control in the 80s...and it's entirely possible that he would have done so again in the 1990s. HH couldn't have forced Perry to tour.

[Rockindeano]

Of course the Perry bitches supported me...They HATE current Journey because their beloved god is not a part of it. Hell, I basically received love letters telling me how great I was, and what a great thing I was doing. Screw that. Tapegate HAD to come tolight, because Journey is better than that, and the results have proven they are much better now than last year. I HATED Tapegate, but someone had to do it. The Perry Heads have NOTHING to advocate except Re-issues and blasting Neal and Jon.

That is pathetic. To bash Journey because "your guy" is no longer in the mix is absolutely pitiful, especially when he quit on them.

Like I said, this board is becoming BT ish and too fucking cheery. I welcome the new Perry v Journey War again..That is an arena where I truly shine. I love wiping the floor with all their slimy fat asses.

[Rockindeano]

Sure - no-one can deny Perry's control-freakery...but HH surrendered control in the 80s...and it's entirely possible that he would have done so again in the 1990s. HH couldn't have forced Perry to tour.

Herbie didn't "surrender" to anything but continuous hunger. Aside from eating every half hour, he never surrendered. Journey basically stopped, due to one member. A manager can't make a singer sing if he doesn't want to.

[treetopovskaya]

NO singer goes into a project with the mindset that he is only going to record and NOT tour. That doesn't make any sense. Perry owed one to Sony...make one more album to fulfill an obligation. We all know touring is the real money maker. Perry had enough bank. He knew by NOT touring, that he could stick it to Sony, and in the process, fulfill his contractual obligation.

If all you Perryheads want to start back up the "War" I am more than ready for that shit...Been there done that, and did it well.

speaking just for myself i don't have the time & i have better things to do. i got me a real life... beyond the message board. }:C))

anyway... who knows what sp's mindset was... only he knows... it's his mind. };C)

this is just gossip... so girly. };C)

[SteveForever]

Of course the Perry bitches supported me...They HATE current Journey because their beloved god is not a part of it. Hell, I basically received love letters telling me how great I was, and what a great thing I was doing. Screw that. Tapegate HAD to come tolight, because Journey is better than that, and the results have proven they are much better now than last year. I HATED Tapegate, but someone had to do it. The Perry Heads have NOTHING to advocate except Re-issues and blasting Neal and Jon.

That is pathetic. To bash Journey because "your guy" is no longer in the mix is absolutely pitiful, especially when he quit on them.

Like I said, this board is becoming BT ish and too fucking cheery. I welcome the new Perry v Journey War again..That is an arena where I truly shine. I love wiping the floor with all their slimy fat asses.

Dean, what in the world are you talking about!? If people like Perry then they "hate" current Journey? that's ridiculous! Neal and the boys are still making money off of Perry, they don't care if we still like him-they want us to talk about and buy the Reissues.....Who on here is blasting Neal and Jon? its not a competition between old and new Journey, its a discussion board...can't we discuss? Why are you hell bent on bashing Perry, we get it=you don't like him, you think he screwed the band=we got it!....We need a poll....geez!