Which Album Better - Trial By Fire or Arrival

[donnaplease]

True. Now I'm really curious what direction they are going with Arnel at the helm. I don't know when they hit the studio, but my guess is within the first half of this year. We're gonna find out what he's made of creatively if it is really true that he has been participating in the writing. This had better be good because it's probably Journey's last ball in the cannon and it's boom or bust time as far as albums go. They'll continue to be fine with touring, but this album is a biggie.

Can't believe I'm gonna go down this road, but this post struck a tiny nerve with me. See, I don't really perceive Arnel as being 'at the helm'. I know what you mean by the figure of speech, and it's certainly no secret that I'm not a fan of this lineup, I just really don't see him as anything more than their singer. Truthfully, we know that Neal and Jon are the ones truly at the helm. It's not a slam on Arnel, it was really the same with JSS (my favorite non-SP lineup) and SA, too. I guess history has shown (to some fans' dismay & to others' delight) that SP was really the only singer at the helm in this band's history.

I will be interested to see also how the album goes, and agree with most of what you say about it. Maybe it's been said here before, but I'm gonna ask anyway. Do we know how the new CD will be marketed? Will it be another WalMart deal? What about packaging? Anything else included other than the new music? I think it's gonna be really hard to match the success of Revelation without those add-ons, but anything is possible.

Anyway, not trying to pick apart your post. Just adding to the conversation.

[Saint John]

True. Now I'm really curious what direction they are going with Arnel at the helm. I don't know when they hit the studio, but my guess is within the first half of this year. We're gonna find out what he's made of creatively if it is really true that he has been participating in the writing. This had better be good because it's probably Journey's last ball in the cannon and it's boom or bust time as far as albums go. They'll continue to be fine with touring, but this album is a biggie.

Can't believe I'm gonna go down this road, but this post struck a tiny nerve with me. See, I don't really perceive Arnel as being 'at the helm'. I know what you mean by the figure of speech, and it's certainly no secret that I'm not a fan of this lineup, I just really don't see him as anything more than their singer. Truthfully, we know that Neal and Jon are the ones truly at the helm. It's not a slam on Arnel, it was really the same with JSS (my favorite non-SP lineup) and SA, too. I guess history has shown (to some fans' dismay & to others' delight) that SP was really the only singer at the helm in this band's history.

I will be interested to see also how the album goes, and agree with most of what you say about it. Maybe it's been said here before, but I'm gonna ask anyway. Do we know how the new CD will be marketed? Will it be another WalMart deal? What about packaging? Anything else included other than the new music? I think it's gonna be really hard to match the success of Revelation without those add-ons, but anything is possible.

Anyway, not trying to pick apart your post. Just adding to the conversation.

DP, I disagree and I'll tell you why. Neal flew to The Phillipines to do the Katy Perry relief concert, but the main reason was to sit down with just Arnel and jam, write and let the creative juices flow. There are a few pictures floating around of them doing this. This tells me that Neal wants Pineda's input and that he probably also wants to gauge the guy's strenths and weaknesses. At the very least, it tells me that he's willing to give the guy a chance. I was told by someone pretty close to the Journey circle that Neal feels something with Pineda that he hasn't felt since Perry and I believe that. I never really thought he flew to over there solely for the hurricane concert. Rumor has it he wanted to isolate his singer and his guitar with no one else (cough: Cain: cough) around. Seems somewhat plausible. Save JC for the one or two killer ballads he always seems to come up with!

[Jana]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.

Of course he was. Only Neal is never taken out of context.

[G.I.Jim]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.

Of course he was. Only Neal is never taken out of context.

Get a ROOM you two!

[Jana]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.

Of course he was. Only Neal is never taken out of context.

Get a ROOM you two!

Go harrass the Styx folks some more.

[steveo777]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.

Of course he was. Only Neal is never taken out of context.

Get a ROOM you two!

Hey Jim...fuck off, mmmkay?
Ok, you can stay. Just contribute something meaty to this thread!

[G.I.Jim]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.

Of course he was. Only Neal is never taken out of context.

Get a ROOM you two!

Hey Jim...fuck off, mmmkay?
Ok, you can stay. Just contribute something meaty to this thread!

Okay fucker, you want meat.. you got meat!...


TBF...

Awesome album overall! Not a fan of "Can't Tame The Lion", "One More", or "Castles Burning", but loved the rest of the album. Some here don't care for the raspiness of Steve's vocals, but after a few listen's... I LOVED the album. Very stellar songwriting and very well produced album overall! THIS album got me excited after the first listen, and I couldn't wait to hear it again!

Arrival... I really like 4 or 5 of the songs (don't have the album here with me so I can't comment). Overall, I felt like Neal and John really stepped away from the plate on this one. It was a pretty strong album overall (minus the amount of ballads on it!) but overall pretty nice. My beef with it is that it really didn't feel like a Journey album! A few of the songs felt like unused Bad English tunes, and others seemed pieced together by various artists (which they wehere).

If you took this as just a melodic or AOR album, I would have given it a 9 out of ten. As it stands as a Journey album though... I'd have to give it a 7 1/2 out of ten.

I guess there's my answer. I'd give Trial by Fire an 8, and Arrival a 7 and a half. Was that meaty enough?

[steveo777]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.

Of course he was. Only Neal is never taken out of context.

Get a ROOM you two!

Hey Jim...fuck off, mmmkay?
Ok, you can stay. Just contribute something meaty to this thread!

Okay fucker, you want meat.. you got meat!...


TBF...

Awesome album overall! Not a fan of "Can't Tame The Lion", "One More", or "Castles Burning", but loved the rest of the album. Some here don't care for the raspiness of Steve's vocals, but after a few listen's... I LOVED the album. Very stellar songwriting and very well produced album overall! THIS album got me excited after the first listen, and I couldn't wait to hear it again!

Arrival... I really like 4 or 5 of the songs (don't have the album here with me so I can't comment). Overall, I felt like Neal and John really stepped away from the plate on this one. It was a pretty strong album overall (minus the amount of ballads on it!) but overall pretty nice. My beef with it is that it really didn't feel like a Journey album! A few of the songs felt like unused Bad English tunes, and others seemed pieced together by various artists (which they wehere).

If you took this as just a melodic or AOR album, I would have given it a 9 out of ten. As it stands as a Journey album though... I'd have to give it a 7 1/2 out of ten.

I guess there's my answer. I'd give Trial by Fire an 8, and Arrival a 7 and a half. Was that meaty enough?

That was pretty damn good bro! I think your assessment of Arrival sucks, however. It feels very much like a Journey album to me and what did you mean by Neal and John stepping away from the plate.....you mean getting out of the box? Isn't that a good thing?

[Jana]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.

Of course he was. Only Neal is never taken out of context.

Get a ROOM you two!

Hey Jim...fuck off, mmmkay?
Ok, you can stay. Just contribute something meaty to this thread!

Okay fucker, you want meat.. you got meat!...


TBF...

Awesome album overall! Not a fan of "Can't Tame The Lion", "One More", or "Castles Burning", but loved the rest of the album. Some here don't care for the raspiness of Steve's vocals, but after a few listen's... I LOVED the album. Very stellar songwriting and very well produced album overall! THIS album got me excited after the first listen, and I couldn't wait to hear it again!

Arrival... I really like 4 or 5 of the songs (don't have the album here with me so I can't comment). Overall, I felt like Neal and John really stepped away from the plate on this one. It was a pretty strong album overall (minus the amount of ballads on it!) but overall pretty nice. My beef with it is that it really didn't feel like a Journey album! A few of the songs felt like unused Bad English tunes, and others seemed pieced together by various artists (which they wehere).

If you took this as just a melodic or AOR album, I would have given it a 9 out of ten. As it stands as a Journey album though... I'd have to give it a 7 1/2 out of ten.

I guess there's my answer. I'd give Trial by Fire an 8, and Arrival a 7 and a half. Was that meaty enough?

That was pretty damn good bro! I think your assessment of Arrival sucks, however. It feels very much like a Journey album to me and what did you mean by Neal and John stepping away from the plate.....you mean getting out of the box? Isn't that a good thing?

No, he's right. It's very unique and not the typical Journey sound, but I love it for that. Neal's playing is much different on this album for the most part and reminds me more of his solo work, as is the tone of the album different and why I love it. It's a very cohesive album in the ambience it creates musically form beginning to end.

[steveo777]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.

Of course he was. Only Neal is never taken out of context.

Get a ROOM you two!

Hey Jim...fuck off, mmmkay?
Ok, you can stay. Just contribute something meaty to this thread!

Okay fucker, you want meat.. you got meat!...


TBF...

Awesome album overall! Not a fan of "Can't Tame The Lion", "One More", or "Castles Burning", but loved the rest of the album. Some here don't care for the raspiness of Steve's vocals, but after a few listen's... I LOVED the album. Very stellar songwriting and very well produced album overall! THIS album got me excited after the first listen, and I couldn't wait to hear it again!

Arrival... I really like 4 or 5 of the songs (don't have the album here with me so I can't comment). Overall, I felt like Neal and John really stepped away from the plate on this one. It was a pretty strong album overall (minus the amount of ballads on it!) but overall pretty nice. My beef with it is that it really didn't feel like a Journey album! A few of the songs felt like unused Bad English tunes, and others seemed pieced together by various artists (which they wehere).

If you took this as just a melodic or AOR album, I would have given it a 9 out of ten. As it stands as a Journey album though... I'd have to give it a 7 1/2 out of ten.

I guess there's my answer. I'd give Trial by Fire an 8, and Arrival a 7 and a half. Was that meaty enough?

That was pretty damn good bro! I think your assessment of Arrival sucks, however. It feels very much like a Journey album to me and what did you mean by Neal and John stepping away from the plate.....you mean getting out of the box? Isn't that a good thing?

No, he's right. It's very unique and not the typical Journey sound, but I love it for that. Neal's playing is much different on this album for the most part and reminds me more of his solo work, as is the tone of the album different and why I love it.

It's pretty amusing that we disagree on why we love it.

[DavidC]

I love TBF, I love Perry's vox on this disc very powerful!! Love the haunting
lyrics and melodies. It contains one of my favorite songs of all time (WYLAW *sigh*)
and many others that I love, SSC, IJTR, MOL, IHSBYH, ICSIIYE
and Baby I'm Leavin' You...love, love love it!!!~fun song!! Can't say enough
about this CD. The guys are playing off of each other just beautifully as if no time had passed, as if
there were no ill will...one of my Journey favs!!!

Everything she said +100000...TBF....hands down.....Perry's voice.....and all of them together.....I like Arrival but LOVE TBF.

Say, you're not BIASED or anything, are you?

[Vladan]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

Red 13 and Generations

Ah yes! those two, even worse than Arrival, well atleast Arrival is a good album if you don't associate it with their previous work, that's IMO, but Red 13 and Generations hey, where were those recorded? apparantly a studio.

I did associate it with their earlier album, TBF, and TBF lost. For me, Arrival is the stronger album. It's one thing to say IMO TBF was better but to comapre Arrival to it as shit or turd really is an insult. Great album, great lyrics and music, with great delivered by Augeri.

Jana, spot on. I feel the same way. I hope Vlad isn't disappointed that one of my picks wasn't Revelation. Funny thing about Arrival is I don't even try and make Perry / Augeri comparisons. It just is what it is, a great album and SA is just right for it.

Damn, you and Jana really tag teamed Vladan's ass!

Arrival is a better album, far less drenched in sappy ballads. Steve Smith, and Neal is the two guys that really shine on TBF though, especially Smith.

Don't remember hearing, or seeing (thank you Jesus) Ross Valory on there, though.

Indeed, my backside is still sore... c'mon! next time have the courtesy to use some lube, I won't be walking for weeks... sheesh.

HEHEHOHOHEHE!

Even though you look like a white pudding with a girly ass wig, I'm not gonna bully you, and I know you know why:

You're a dumbass.

Dumbass?, whoops. Yeah taking things personal, personal attacks. See this Andrew? see this, this guy joined in 2009 (153 posts) might I ad, and he's telling long time regulars and contributers, paying memeber when I can. Calling me names and puting me down.

[Vladan]

c'mon! next time have the courtesy to use some lube, I won't be walking for weeks... sheesh.

lol!!
Gotta supply your own, Vlad!!
TBF it is, grainy, sexy vox...good choice!!

Thanks, yeah it seems to be the case these days, Perry on his worst day is still the voice, he's the best.

[Since 78]

c'mon! next time have the courtesy to use some lube, I won't be walking for weeks... sheesh.

lol!!
Gotta supply your own, Vlad!!
TBF it is, grainy, sexy vox...good choice!!

Thanks, yeah it seems to be the case these days, Perry on his worst day is still the voice, he's the best.

No, Perry on his worst day sounds bad. You guys crack me up the way you throw that out there.

[7 Wishes]

TBF.

Arrival had six great songs and some filler. The only tune off TBF I never listen to is, of course, Castles Burning.

[Author2]

I have another problem with TBF, the more I listen to it the more I'm sure that Perry's vocals are at least 50% studio magic. Strangely, we never got a chance to find out for sure. To bad about that hip thing.

To bad about that mouth thing.

[Ehwmatt]

I have another problem with TBF, the more I listen to it the more I'm sure that Perry's vocals are at least 50% studio magic. Strangely, we never got a chance to find out for sure. To bad about that hip thing.

Why? It's not like he was nailing tweeter-frying high notes like in his early years. I'd say there are few, if any songs that are "difficult" to sing by SP's range standards. I believe he sang all of those songs without "studio magic" as I define it.

If you're talking about comping vocal takes, whether it be 2 takes or 2000 to make one song, well that is not "studio magic," as that's been done since the beginning of vocal recording. If you have other theories as to how his TBF vocals were enhanced, I'd be interested to hear what they are and some specific examples. AutoTune wasn't exactly running rampant in 95/96 yet...

[Since 78]

I have another problem with TBF, the more I listen to it the more I'm sure that Perry's vocals are at least 50% studio magic. Strangely, we never got a chance to find out for sure. To bad about that hip thing.

Why? It's not like he was nailing tweeter-frying high notes like in his early years. I'd say there are few, if any songs that are "difficult" to sing by SP's range standards. I believe he sang all of those songs without "studio magic" as I define it.

If you're talking about comping vocal takes, whether it be 2 takes or 2000 to make one song, well that is not "studio magic," as that's been done since the beginning of vocal recording. If you have other theories as to how his TBF vocals were enhanced, I'd be interested to hear what they are and some specific examples. AutoTune wasn't exactly running rampant in 95/96 yet...

I'm not an expert Matt, but to me anything that is done in the studio that can't be reproduced live is " studio magic" whether its multiple takes or whatever. My contention is that Perry could not have pulled off those songs live, which to me explains why there was no tour and why you won't hear him live again.

[Ehwmatt]

I have another problem with TBF, the more I listen to it the more I'm sure that Perry's vocals are at least 50% studio magic. Strangely, we never got a chance to find out for sure. To bad about that hip thing.

Why? It's not like he was nailing tweeter-frying high notes like in his early years. I'd say there are few, if any songs that are "difficult" to sing by SP's range standards. I believe he sang all of those songs without "studio magic" as I define it.

If you're talking about comping vocal takes, whether it be 2 takes or 2000 to make one song, well that is not "studio magic," as that's been done since the beginning of vocal recording. If you have other theories as to how his TBF vocals were enhanced, I'd be interested to hear what they are and some specific examples. AutoTune wasn't exactly running rampant in 95/96 yet...

I'm not an expert Matt, but to me anything that is done in the studio that can't be reproduced live is " studio magic" whether its multiple takes or whatever. My contention is that Perry could not have pulled off those songs live, which to me explains why there was no tour and why you won't hear him live again.

This is all conjecture on both of our parts, but just for fun, what songs from TBF do you think would have been tough for him to pull off live? IMO, TBF wasn't toured not because of those songs, but because of the old songs he'd have to (struggle to) sing.

[steveo777]

I have another problem with TBF, the more I listen to it the more I'm sure that Perry's vocals are at least 50% studio magic. Strangely, we never got a chance to find out for sure. To bad about that hip thing.

Why? It's not like he was nailing tweeter-frying high notes like in his early years. I'd say there are few, if any songs that are "difficult" to sing by SP's range standards. I believe he sang all of those songs without "studio magic" as I define it.

If you're talking about comping vocal takes, whether it be 2 takes or 2000 to make one song, well that is not "studio magic," as that's been done since the beginning of vocal recording. If you have other theories as to how his TBF vocals were enhanced, I'd be interested to hear what they are and some specific examples. AutoTune wasn't exactly running rampant in 95/96 yet...

I'm not an expert Matt, but to me anything that is done in the studio that can't be reproduced live is " studio magic" whether its multiple takes or whatever. My contention is that Perry could not have pulled off those songs live, which to me explains why there was no tour and why you won't hear him live again.

This is all conjecture on both of our parts, but just for fun, what songs from TBF do you think would have been tough for him to pull off live? IMO, TBF wasn't toured not because of [b]those songs, but because of the old songs he'd have to (struggle to) sing[/b].

Are we forgetting about Steve's hip injury? Wasn't that the reason given for no tour?

[Ehwmatt]

Are we forgetting about Steve's hip injury. Wasn't that the reason given for no tour and the band disolving after that album?

Sure, it was the "reason given"

[steveo777]

Are we forgetting about Steve's hip injury. Wasn't that the reason given for no tour and the band disolving after that album?

Sure, it was the "reason given"

Sorry dude, I edited it because "disolving" might not have been the correct terminology. I meant while they regrouped, found another singer, etc.

I want to see Mr. Perry's scar.

[Ehwmatt]

Are we forgetting about Steve's hip injury. Wasn't that the reason given for no tour and the band disolving after that album?

Sure, it was the "reason given"

Sorry dude, I edited it because "disolving" might not have been the correct terminology. I meant while they regrouped, found another singer, etc.

Oh I wasn't even reading that part, I was just alluding to the fact that the hip was probably used to cover up vocal worries leading to the no tour.

[steveo777]

Are we forgetting about Steve's hip injury. Wasn't that the reason given for no tour and the band disolving after that album?

Sure, it was the "reason given"

Sorry dude, I edited it because "disolving" might not have been the correct terminology. I meant while they regrouped, found another singer, etc.

Oh I wasn't even reading that part, I was just alluding to the fact that the hip was probably used to cover up vocal worries leading to the no tour.

lolz...you missed my last edit.

[Since 78]

I have another problem with TBF, the more I listen to it the more I'm sure that Perry's vocals are at least 50% studio magic. Strangely, we never got a chance to find out for sure. To bad about that hip thing.

Why? It's not like he was nailing tweeter-frying high notes like in his early years. I'd say there are few, if any songs that are "difficult" to sing by SP's range standards. I believe he sang all of those songs without "studio magic" as I define it.

If you're talking about comping vocal takes, whether it be 2 takes or 2000 to make one song, well that is not "studio magic," as that's been done since the beginning of vocal recording. If you have other theories as to how his TBF vocals were enhanced, I'd be interested to hear what they are and some specific examples. AutoTune wasn't exactly running rampant in 95/96 yet...

I'm not an expert Matt, but to me anything that is done in the studio that can't be reproduced live is " studio magic" whether its multiple takes or whatever. My contention is that Perry could not have pulled off those songs live, which to me explains why there was no tour and why you won't hear him live again.

This is all conjecture on both of our parts, but just for fun, what songs from TBF do you think would have been tough for him to pull off live? IMO, TBF wasn't toured not because of [b]those songs, but because of the old songs he'd have to (struggle to) sing.[/b]

Good point, and probably the truth, could he have done Escape? Don't stop believing? Wheel in the sky? But back to your question, two off the top of my head would be One More and Don't be down on me baby. I think he would have struggled with Castles burning also.