Journey album - new date

[The_Noble_Cause]

No.

There are literally tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, of people who go to the concerts who never post to these forums.

This is the same type of argument Perryheads used to make regarding SP's absence. Guess what? The band continued to tour successfully under Augeri and got even bigger under Arnel.

Back in the mid-90's I saw Little River Band twicw within a month. The second time was at the grandstand at the fair, some disco act canceled a free concert...I think it was Donna Summers or someone like that. LRB filled in and gave one of the best concerts I have ever seen to this date. It was awesome, but I'm not going to get into that. People started leaving after that. First was their lead singer, Glen Shorrock. He was replaced by the very capable Steve Wade. I saw them a year later and they were still very good. Then Ian Mason left...he was in the band "Player" and sang "Baby Come Back". Ok, well, I guess that just meant they could do more LRB songs. Then Steve Wade left and was never replaced. And, their very long time drummer Derek Pelucci left.

They went from performing the grandstand at the fair to 10,000 - 15,000 people, to performing outside festivals with Steve Wade singing, to performing 500 GA capacity at a local ballroom. Yeah, they can release new music. Yeah, they can still tour. Yeah, you can say a member was with them back in the 80's. So what. They are nothing compared to the band I saw....and people know that.

LRB is on the same level as Journey now? What a comparison.

That is where Journey is headed under Schon's "leadership". He has successfully fired everybody but himself and Jonathan Cain.

TOTO is down to Luke and Joe and they just sold out a 17,000 capacity venue. If Journey continued to be successful without Perry, they will be just fine without Ross Valory and Smith. You know your arguments are nonsense. Stop taking the piss and wasting everyone's time.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And, take a step back for a moment and look at what happened if everything in Neal's lawsuit is true.

That would mean that:
Nightmare forged Jonathan Cain's ELECTRONIC signature to schedule a board meeting.

Nightmare desired and planned that board meeting to kick out Schon/Cain from board leadership and replace them with Smith/Valory, and expand the number of board members to make it impossible for Schon/Cain to gain back control.

Nightmare wanted to do this to file a trademark complaint against JTT and also take control of Journey, even though they already owned the trademark.

That is how desperate Nightmare was to control Neal, JTT, and Journey...according to Neal. Doesn't that speak volumes about how out of control Neal really was/is to make Nightmare so desperate? And, that isn't even going into labeling this a 'coup' or planning for retirement. And, Nightmare includes Herbie, and Perry's representative(s), and Nightmare's attorneys...they were all in favor of this.

Nobody ever alleged that ALL shareholders of Nightmare were involved in the coup. The impression I got, from what I read, is the principal players were the attorney (Schacht) and Smitty and Ross. A conspiracy doesn't have to be vast to be true. At the time of the vote, we don't even know if Herbie and Perry's rep knew about the forged signature.

It's always everybody elses fault. I can't blame Azoff for telling Neal to quit if he is so anhappy. I also can't blame Azoff for walking away from this disaster. Journey has become nothing but drama and that's not good for business.

And yet, at the height of the drama (Cain vs. Schon feud) the band had one of the most successful tours ever.

[jrnyman28]

As for "connection to heritage"....who tf cares?

I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

So that would be all those fans who didn't want the band going on without Perry and were so passionately represented online by the Perryheads? The ones you said weren't that many?[/quote]
No.

There are literally tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, of people who go to the concerts who never post to these forums.[/quote]

Not what I was saying. The passionate online presence was representative of what is likely the majority of 'casual' Journey fans. Heritage is equivalent to nostalgia which lays almost soley with the Perry-era. And for most fans, no matter how great the songs were, they lay that at the face and voice of the band. So you're "connection to heritage" supports my previous statements about Perry.

And the band has already endured that...

[Monker]

And, take a step back for a moment and look at what happened if everything in Neal's lawsuit is true.

That would mean that:
Nightmare forged Jonathan Cain's ELECTRONIC signature to schedule a board meeting.

Nightmare desired and planned that board meeting to kick out Schon/Cain from board leadership and replace them with Smith/Valory, and expand the number of board members to make it impossible for Schon/Cain to gain back control.

Nightmare wanted to do this to file a trademark complaint against JTT and also take control of Journey, even though they already owned the trademark.

That is how desperate Nightmare was to control Neal, JTT, and Journey...according to Neal. Doesn't that speak volumes about how out of control Neal really was/is to make Nightmare so desperate? And, that isn't even going into labeling this a 'coup' or planning for retirement. And, Nightmare includes Herbie, and Perry's representative(s), and Nightmare's attorneys...they were all in favor of this.

Nobody ever alleged that ALL shareholders of Nightmare were involved in the coup. The impression I got, from what I read, is the principal players were the attorney (Schacht) and Smitty and Ross. A conspiracy doesn't have to be vast to be true. At the time of the vote, we don't even know if Herbie and Perry's rep knew about the forged signature.

The bottom line in what I am saying is that even if EVERYTHING you and Neal accusED, NIGHTMARE is what made the trademark complaint. In addition, they had to agree to go through all of these hoops just to get Smith/Valory, etc on the board...THAT is being very desperate regardless of the specifics of who is involved.

And, it appears the settlement had ZERO affect on Nightmare. If you look it up, Steve Smith and Ross are STILL on the board at Nightmare as President and Secretary and have been since late last year...and Schon/Cain do NOT have leadership positions.

It's always everybody elses fault. I can't blame Azoff for telling Neal to quit if he is so anhappy. I also can't blame Azoff for walking away from this disaster. Journey has become nothing but drama and that's not good for business.

And yet, at the height of the drama (Cain vs. Schon feud) the band had one of the most successful tours ever.

Oh, so you would be happy with just touring the greatest hits. That makes perfect sense. Not.

Also, at that point you along with others on the forum were after Cain to leave and throwing insults his way. No, Smith/Valory are to blame, no it's management. The reality is that everybody is to blame except Neal Schon...according to Neal Schon.

[Monker]

As for "connection to heritage"....who tf cares?

I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

So that would be all those fans who didn't want the band going on without Perry and were so passionately represented online by the Perryheads? The ones you said weren't that many?

No.

There are literally tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, of people who go to the concerts who never post to these forums.[/quote]

Not what I was saying. The passionate online presence was representative of what is likely the majority of 'casual' Journey fans. Heritage is equivalent to nostalgia which lays almost soley with the Perry-era. And for most fans, no matter how great the songs were, they lay that at the face and voice of the band. So you're "connection to heritage" supports my previous statements about Perry.

And the band has already endured that...[/quote]

I agree partially with what you are saying. I think the band endured moving on from Steve Perry. But, they are moving further away then just that. But, I don't think most people cared who was singing. Sure, some did...but not all. When a band goes out touring their hits for 20+ years there comes a breaking point where there is too much change and the masses just stop caring.

There have been two forces tugging at Journey. One is to move away from their heritage and do something completely new, which is what Neal has wanted to do...and DID with Eclipse. The other is to have a connection to the past and build on that legacy sound...which used to be what Jonathan seemed to want. Now, Jonathan is not even whispering that opinion, or implying it in any way. So, it seems to me that Neal has won that 'battle' but I don't think that is a good thing.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The bottom line in what I am saying is that even if EVERYTHING you and Neal accusED, NIGHTMARE is what made the trademark complaint.

To paraphrase Ross (a member of Nightmare), why didn’t he just talk to Neal about it? I’m sure the whole thing was just a big ole harmless misunderstanding. Riiiiight?

In addition, they had to agree to go through all of these hoops just to get Smith/Valory, etc on the board...THAT is being very desperate regardless of the specifics of who is involved.

Forging an electronic signature is really not that many hoops.

And, it appears the settlement had ZERO affect on Nightmare. If you look it up, Steve Smith and Ross are STILL on the board at Nightmare as President and Secretary and have been since late last year...and Schon/Cain do NOT have leadership positions.

We don’t even know what the power structure is right now or what Nightmare even still controls. As mentioned, the website no longer says NOMOTA but Journey LLC. There very well could be other changes.

Oh, so you would be happy with just touring the greatest hits. That makes perfect sense. Not.

Where did I say that?

Also, at that point you along with others on the forum were after Cain to leave and throwing insults his way.

I just bashed Pope Cain earlier today for being a wacko.

No, Smith/Valory are to blame, no it's management. The reality is that everybody is to blame except Neal Schon...according to Neal Schon.

Neal’s demand is simple: get on board with new music or get out of the way. Fans stuck in the past - like you - should do the same.

[Monker]

The bottom line in what I am saying is that even if EVERYTHING you and Neal accusED, NIGHTMARE is what made the trademark complaint.

To paraphrase Ross (a member of Nightmare), why didn’t he just talk to Neal about it? I’m sure the whole thing was just a big ole harmless misunderstanding. Riiiiight?

Dude, you just don't get it. It doesn't matter what you say, the unchangeable FACT is that NIGHTMARE filed the trademark complaint, not Valory/Smith...which is what Journeyhard said and I corrected.

In addition, they had to agree to go through all of these hoops just to get Smith/Valory, etc on the board...THAT is being very desperate regardless of the specifics of who is involved.

Forging an electronic signature is really not that many hoops.

So, you are saying they knew Jonathan's email login information - it doesn't have to be his corporate Email, and his password so they could pass the double authentication that most electronic signatures require. Or, maybe they stole his phone and knew how to open it to access his texts so they could pass double authentication that way. The more you look at this, the more ridiculous it is. In addition, why did Jonathan not sue whatever esigniture company for allowing a hack. And, how do you know that the box of destroyed evidence did not include testimony from the esignature company that showed Jonathan signed the document?

You post all of this conjecture, all of this made up stuff, for a case that was settled and evidence was destroyed so nobody knows all of the evidence. Some of the time you even state this stuff as factual, when it is clearly not.

The bottom line is that Steve Smith and Ross Valory are still President and Secretary at Nightmare, and Jonathan and Neal do not have any leadership positions. So, Neal caved on that part of the settlement.

We don’t even know what the power structure is right now or what Nightmare even still controls. As mentioned, the website no longer says NOMOTA but Journey LLC. There very well could be other changes.

Yes we do. It is public information. I looked it up. They are required to filed a document to the secretary of state in California to acknowledge leadership changes....Nightmare did this last September, well AFTER Neal's lawsuite, to add Smith/Valory anre remove Schon/Can and no new documents have been filed, which I looked up today. So, Steve Smith is President, Ross Valory is secretary, and Neal and Jonathan are peon stock holders with little power.

Here search it yourself. It the settlement change it they are way behind in filing a new document:

Entity # C0694264

https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/

No, Smith/Valory are to blame, no it's management. The reality is that everybody is to blame except Neal Schon...according to Neal Schon.

Neal’s demand is simple: get on board with new music or get out of the way. Fans stuck in the past - like you - should do the same.

Neal Schon has no power over me. It just makes him sound like a short and whiny baby demanding people do this and that and blaming everybody else for his issues.

[The_Noble_Cause]

New single - first in 11 years - literally just dropped minutes ago and instead you are arguing about the same tired old bullshit. Pretty sad, man.

As for your "points".....

Dude, you just don't get it. It doesn't matter what you say, the unchangeable FACT is that NIGHTMARE filed the trademark complaint, not Valory/Smith...which is what Journeyhard said and I corrected.

Are you denying that Ross and Smitty are members of Nightmare?
And you didn't answer my question - why didn't your hero, Ross, just try to talk it out?
The same way you suggested Neal diplomatically work around Smitty's laziness?
Funny how Neal needs to give peace a chance, but everyone else (i.e. Nightmare i.e. Ross/Smitty) is allowed to go nuclear.

So, you are saying they knew Jonathan's email login information - it doesn't have to be his corporate Email, and his password so they could pass the double authentication that most electronic signatures require. Or, maybe they stole his phone and knew how to open it to access his texts so they could pass double authentication that way. The more you look at this, the more ridiculous it is. In addition, why did Jonathan not sue whatever esigniture company for allowing a hack. And, how do you know that the box of destroyed evidence did not include testimony from the esignature company that showed Jonathan signed the document?

Oh, I didn't say any of that. I just re-stated the Cain/Schon side of things that the meeting was illegitimately convened.

You post all of this conjecture, all of this made up stuff, for a case that was settled and evidence was destroyed so nobody knows all of the evidence. Some of the time you even state this stuff as factual, when it is clearly not.

An example of conjecture is your block paragraph above.
Anything I stated was from either the lawsuits, interviews, or reality (ex. Ross not doing jack-shit).
What did I make up? Be specific.

The bottom line is that Steve Smith and Ross Valory are still President and Secretary at Nightmare, and Jonathan and Neal do not have any leadership positions. So, Neal caved on that part of the settlement.

Again, one of the controlling entities, NOMOTA, has suddenly become JOURNEY LLC - in terms of structural corporate leadership, nobody has a clue.

Yes we do. It is public information. I looked it up. They are required to filed a document to the secretary of state in California to acknowledge leadership changes....Nightmare did this last September, well AFTER Neal's lawsuite, to add Smith/Valory anre remove Schon/Can and no new documents have been filed, which I looked up today. So, Steve Smith is President, Ross Valory is secretary, and Neal and Jonathan are peon stock holders with little power.

This has nothing to do with what I said.
The leadership of Nightmare may have changed, but we don't even know if they are still the controlling entity. Could be Elmo Bros. Could be Journey LLC.

Neal Schon has no power over me. It just makes him sound like a short and whiny baby demanding people do this and that and blaming everybody else for his issues.

And yet here you are, on the eve of new Journey music, still whining about Neal Schon.
Sounds like he has total and absolute dominion over your shit-filled brain.

[JourneyHard]

Monker wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
As for "connection to heritage"....who tf cares?


I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

Hold on a second! JTT included Gregg Rolie! JTT was a stronger connection to heritage than anything else they have done since Arrival. A nation-wide tour of JTT would have given fans a chance to hear the first lead singer of Journey!

[Andrew]

That is where Journey is headed under Schon's "leadership". He has successfully fired everybody but himself and Jonathan Cain.

Neal has been leading since 1996. The band has done just fine.

[Eric]

It is funny to me because Steve Smith already is one of the best drummers in the world. And, Randy "American Idol" Jackson being one of the best bassists is funny in itself.

True about Smith, but also true about Narada. And Narada also has vocals and producing skills that Smith doesn't have. Oh - and he wants to create with Journey.

[Eric]

[No, it's more like the "bands" who perform at Disney where only one or two members of the real band remain.

WTF does this mean? Was it a "REAL" band with no Rolie on Escape? How about with only one original member on ROR? Or how about with no Perry since '96?

Come on, man. You're being ridiculous. Journey has always changed... with Schon being the one constant. For nearly 50 years.

[Eric]

[Back in the mid-90's I saw Little River Band...

JUST. STOP.

[Eric]

[I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

This was a comment you made about connection to heritage. If that's your concern then JTT with Rolie and Schon (the original players Journey was created upon) would have been IT. And don't forget the founder and only forever member of Journey needed to do JTT because he wasn't able to create new or pull from the deep in Journey.

[Monker]

[Back in the mid-90's I saw Little River Band...

JUST. STOP.

No, I won't. Because that is what I feel has happened to Journey. Neal fired: Steve Perry, Steve Smith, Ross Valory, Deen Castronova, JSS, and even agreed to let Herbie go, and then Azoff. Along the way, blaming some of them for what he perceived as causing problems for the band. If Jonathan was not part of NoMoTa, he probably would be fired, too.

[Monker]

[I think a lot more people care then you'll ever know. They blew their chance at capitalizing on it...with Neal being focused on JTT.

This was a comment you made about connection to heritage. If that's your concern then JTT with Rolie and Schon (the original players Journey was created upon) would have been IT. And don't forget the founder and only forever member of Journey needed to do JTT because he wasn't able to create new or pull from the deep in Journey.

But, Neal tried to push it too far into being an alternate Journey. It wasn't just a side project that did some Journey...it was HIS version of Journey. That was never going to fly with Nightmare and is really what started all of lawsuits.

[The_Noble_Cause]

[Back in the mid-90's I saw Little River Band...

JUST. STOP.

No, I won't. Because that is what I feel has happened to Journey. Neal fired: Steve Perry, Steve Smith, Ross Valory, Deen Castronova, JSS, and even agreed to let Herbie go, and then Azoff. Along the way, blaming some of them for what he perceived as causing problems for the band. If Jonathan was not part of NoMoTa, he probably would be fired, too.

So much generalizing and dishonesty.

[Eric]

[But, Neal tried to push it too far into being an alternate Journey. It wasn't just a side project that did some Journey...it was HIS version of Journey. That was never going to fly with Nightmare and is really what started all of lawsuits.

I understand how from a legal standpoint some of your points have validity. But from a fan perspective... how can you not root for Schon when what he wants is new music and varied setlists. And he's the only one who has been there the whole time.

What if someone told Smith they only were in Vital information for a paycheck? Journey has been active for 37 of the last 47 years. Smith has been part of them for 10? of those and wasn't the original. And Narada is his replacement. Its just not a big deal to me. I don't know (don't have the music knowledge) if Randy Jackson is average or good or great BUT I do know that Valory has been referred to as the weak link and has annoyed more than one person I've attended shows with. If you want to retire then retire.

[Monker]

[But, Neal tried to push it too far into being an alternate Journey. It wasn't just a side project that did some Journey...it was HIS version of Journey. That was never going to fly with Nightmare and is really what started all of lawsuits.

I understand how from a legal standpoint some of your points have validity. But from a fan perspective... how can you not root for Schon when what he wants is new music and varied setlists. And he's the only one who has been there the whole time.

What if someone told Smith they only were in Vital information for a paycheck?

Are you equating Steve Smith's position in VI to Neal's position in Journey? Because, that is what it sounds like.

It sounds to me like Steve Smith only wanted to be a touring member of Journey, not a full member of the band recording and releasing album and touring, etc. So, no, it doesn't surprise me that he would say something like that. It seems to me that Neal wanted him to be a full time member of the band and kept hiring him to go on tour. If someone in VI was in there in a comparable way, I would expect Smith to say, "Of course you are...I didn't hire you to go into the studio and write and record songs. Just keep doing what I am paying you to do.".

If you look back at interviews, all the way back to when he was in The Storm, Steve Smith has never showed much interest in being in a pop/rock band since he was fired from Journey during ROR. When he joined The Storm, it was to record only and he didn't want to tour and left the band before the tour even started. It seems Journey was the exact opposite, he was hired to tour and it seems he was there for the tour with the Pretenders and Neal fired him before that tour even started. That is ridiculous and wrong...if Neal is a leader and wanted someone else who would be in the studio and tour then he should have talked to Steve Smith about it and givne him a chance to leave gracefully. Instead, he had a knee jerk reaction to the Nightmare's trademark dispute with JTT.

Journey has been active for 37 of the last 47 years. Smith has been part of them for 10? of those and wasn't the original.

He was part of the most popular lineup, Escape/Frontiers.

I don't know (don't have the music knowledge) if Randy Jackson is average or good or great BUT I do know that Valory has been referred to as the weak link and has annoyed more than one person I've attended shows with. If you want to retire then retire.

Ross has ALWEAYS been that way. So what. If you are going to fire him for not being a songwriter or active in the studio, that should have happened prior to Escape. Even Herbie said in Castles Burning, or one of those interviews, something like Ross had been in the band for more than five years and had not improved on his instrument at all. You would think that a professional in a band would study his instrument and improve to be the best he could. But, Ross had not advanced at all since the day he was hired.

So, IMO, Neal was just blabbing off an excuse to get rid of him.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It sounds to me like Steve Smith only wanted to be a touring member of Journey, not a full member of the band recording and releasing album and touring, etc. So, no, it doesn't surprise me that he would say something like that. It seems to me that Neal wanted him to be a full time member of the band and kept hiring him to go on tour. If someone in VI was in there in a comparable way, I would expect Smith to say, "Of course you are...I didn't hire you to go into the studio and write and record songs. Just keep doing what I am paying you to do.".

If you look back at interviews, all the way back to when he was in The Storm, Steve Smith has never showed much interest in being in a pop/rock band since he was fired from Journey during ROR. When he joined The Storm, it was to record only and he didn't want to tour and left the band before the tour even started.

Smitty released a statement when he rejoined....

Statement: He said "I will also be performing with them during the next two years and by 2018 will resume my career full-time as a touring and recording jazz musician."

Reality: He ended up staying for multiple years.

Statement: He also said he rejoined because he still had creative chemistry and musical rapport with all the guys.

Reality: Aside from the line of fire drum solo (yawn) nightly, there was ZERO creative chemistry/rapport on display.

It seems Journey was the exact opposite, he was hired to tour and it seems he was there for the tour with the Pretenders and Neal fired him before that tour even started. That is ridiculous and wrong...if Neal is a leader and wanted someone else who would be in the studio and tour then he should have talked to Steve Smith about it and givne him a chance to leave gracefully. Instead, he had a knee jerk reaction to the Nightmare's trademark dispute with JTT.

LOL. Is there anything graceful in how Smitty helped to overthrow Cain/Schon from leadership roles - after they brought him back into the fold?

So, IMO, Neal was just blabbing off an excuse to get rid of him.

I haven't seen Neal criticize Ross's musical ability at all. Do you have a link? Sounds like you're making shit up again.

[Monker]

It sounds to me like Steve Smith only wanted to be a touring member of Journey, not a full member of the band recording and releasing album and touring, etc. So, no, it doesn't surprise me that he would say something like that. It seems to me that Neal wanted him to be a full time member of the band and kept hiring him to go on tour. If someone in VI was in there in a comparable way, I would expect Smith to say, "Of course you are...I didn't hire you to go into the studio and write and record songs. Just keep doing what I am paying you to do.".

If you look back at interviews, all the way back to when he was in The Storm, Steve Smith has never showed much interest in being in a pop/rock band since he was fired from Journey during ROR. When he joined The Storm, it was to record only and he didn't want to tour and left the band before the tour even started.

Smitty released a statement when he rejoined....

Statement: He said "I will also be performing with them during the next two years and by 2018 will resume my career full-time as a touring and recording jazz musician."

Reality: He ended up staying for multiple years.

Like I said, it seems like he only wanted to tour.

Statement: He also said he rejoined because he still had creative chemistry and musical rapport with all the guys.

You didn't quote it so the context is unknown. it could mean anything. When I read that, it could mean creating music on tour.

It seems Journey was the exact opposite, he was hired to tour and it seems he was there for the tour with the Pretenders and Neal fired him before that tour even started. That is ridiculous and wrong...if Neal is a leader and wanted someone else who would be in the studio and tour then he should have talked to Steve Smith about it and givne him a chance to leave gracefully. Instead, he had a knee jerk reaction to the Nightmare's trademark dispute with JTT.

LOL. Is there anything graceful in how Smitty helped to overthrow Cain/Schon from leadership roles - after they brought him back into the fold?[/quote]

Ah, poor Neal He's such a victim. He must be pretty weak to constantly allow everybody to abuse like this.

Like I have said, NIGHTMARE are who voted Neal and Jonathan out. And, it all started because Neal was using JTT as his own alternative to Journey.

So, IMO, Neal was just blabbing off an excuse to get rid of him.

I haven't seen Neal criticize Ross's musical ability at all. Do you have a link? Sounds like you're making shit up again.

There you go making shit up again. I didn't say Neal said or believed that. I said Ross has been that way for decades and paraphrased what Herbie said. Ross has NEVER been that active as a writer or in the studio and all of these things, including what Neal's excuses are in the lawsuit. If it Ross was such a "weak link" then he should have been fired all the back to 1979.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Like I said, it seems like he only wanted to tour.

With a hard stop after 2 years – which Smitty didn’t do. If he changed his mind regarding that, what else changed? And what motivated him to hang around?

You didn't quote it so the context is unknown. it could mean anything. When I read that, it could mean creating music on tour.

Smitty wrote the statement. I don’t need your biased interpretation. Again, if he had creative chemistry and musical rapport (his words) with the guys, where was it? I didn’t see it on tour and definitely didn’t see anything recorded.

Ah, poor Neal He's such a victim. He must be pretty weak to constantly allow everybody to abuse like this.

You didn’t answer my question. You said that Neal should have given Smitty the opportunity to leave gracefully. I ask again, was it graceful for Smith to try to demote his boss? Forget about Journey, at what organization is that acceptable?

There you go making shit up again. I didn't say Neal said or believed that.

I literally quoted you. You said “So, IMO, Neal was just blabbing off an excuse to get rid of him.” Where did this happen? Please provide a quote and stop gaslighting everybody.

[DK23]

What about “Return” or “Rise” as an album name? In my mind, both speak to the comeback of the band to new music and the road and potentially suit Cain’s religious bend.

Although admittedly, they aren’t quite catchy names.

[JourneyHard]

With the full tour in Summer 2022, what are the odds they don't release the new album until next spring? Then they can launch into the tour soon afterwards.

[JourneyHard]

What about “Return” or “Rise” as an album name? In my mind, both speak to the comeback of the band to new music and the road and potentially suit Cain’s religious bend.

Although admittedly, they aren’t quite catchy names.

I just hope they do NOT title the new album Reminiscence. I still like Eternity. Or they could name it Ellipse and get everybody confused to Eclipse.

[Gideon]

Love Journey but sometimes they do shit that really grates on my fucking nerves.

One of them is the persistent use of prerecorded synths and effects for their songs. It's maddening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1gPXCa ... rt_radio=1

Look at Jon at the 0:38 second mark; he remembers at the last second that he's supposed to be playing the intro to TWWUTB. It starts playing before he gets there and you can hear/see that there's either a prerecorded intro or a prerecorded synth overlay over his piano. Even the synths during the chorus seem to be prerecorded background shit instead of Jason playing it.

Perhaps the most egregious example is on Only the Young, where they use this limpdicked prerecorded keyboard loop for the rhythm guitar... even while Jon is playing rhythm guitar...

Right now, Journey has 7 spectacular musicians on stage. Absolutely no reason in my view for them to be using any prerecorded shit.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Love Journey but sometimes they do shit that really grates on my fucking nerves.

One of them is the persistent use of prerecorded synths and effects for their songs. It's maddening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1gPXCa ... rt_radio=1

Look at Jon at the 0:38 second mark; he remembers at the last second that he's supposed to be playing the intro to TWWUTB. It starts playing before he gets there and you can hear/see that there's either a prerecorded intro or a prerecorded synth overlay over his piano. Even the synths during the chorus seem to be prerecorded background shit instead of Jason playing it.

Perhaps the most egregious example is on Only the Young, where they use this limpdicked prerecorded keyboard loop for the rhythm guitar... even while Jon is playing rhythm guitar...

Right now, Journey has 7 spectacular musicians on stage. Absolutely no reason in my view for them to be using any prerecorded shit.

I watched this a few times. The way I saw it, Jon ran up to his rig fast enough to get it started. Then Jason took over and Jon resumed rhythm guitar.

[Gideon]

Love Journey but sometimes they do shit that really grates on my fucking nerves.

One of them is the persistent use of prerecorded synths and effects for their songs. It's maddening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1gPXCa ... rt_radio=1

Look at Jon at the 0:38 second mark; he remembers at the last second that he's supposed to be playing the intro to TWWUTB. It starts playing before he gets there and you can hear/see that there's either a prerecorded intro or a prerecorded synth overlay over his piano. Even the synths during the chorus seem to be prerecorded background shit instead of Jason playing it.

Perhaps the most egregious example is on Only the Young, where they use this limpdicked prerecorded keyboard loop for the rhythm guitar... even while Jon is playing rhythm guitar...

Right now, Journey has 7 spectacular musicians on stage. Absolutely no reason in my view for them to be using any prerecorded shit.

I watched this a few times. The way I saw it, Jon ran up to his rig fast enough to get it started. Then Jason took over and Jon resumed rhythm guitar.

Honestly, man, I don't think that's what happened.

I think there's a prerecorded keyboard overlay for the intro to TWWUTB, like there is with the live intro to Ask the Lonely. If you watch any recording of Jon playing the intro to ATL, he's on the Fazio baby grand piano and there are prerecorded synths that overlay his piano keys.

Journey's had a bad habit of prerecorded synths for years: Only the Young's rhythm guitar riff, Wildest Dreams chorus, Never Walk Away's chorus, Suzanne, I'll Be Alright Without You, Send Her My Love, etc.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Honestly, man, I don't think that's what happened.

I think there's a prerecorded keyboard overlay for the intro to TWWUTB, like there is with the live intro to Ask the Lonely. If you watch any recording of Jon playing the intro to ATL, he's on the Fazio baby grand piano and there are prerecorded synths that overlay his piano keys.

Journey's had a bad habit of prerecorded synths for years: Only the Young's rhythm guitar riff, Wildest Dreams chorus, Never Walk Away's chorus, Suzanne, I'll Be Alright Without You, Send Her My Love, etc.

So why even quickly run up to his rig? Why bother? The intro only involves 2 keys tops and it looks like he's playing them to me.

During OTY, (before there was Travis or Jason), he just openly played rhythm guitar as the pre-recorded synth played in the background. If he didn't have to pantomime then, why start now?

[Monker]

Love Journey but sometimes they do shit that really grates on my fucking nerves.

One of them is the persistent use of prerecorded synths and effects for their songs. It's maddening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1gPXCa ... rt_radio=1

Look at Jon at the 0:38 second mark; he remembers at the last second that he's supposed to be playing the intro to TWWUTB. It starts playing before he gets there and you can hear/see that there's either a prerecorded intro or a prerecorded synth overlay over his piano. Even the synths during the chorus seem to be prerecorded background shit instead of Jason playing it.

Perhaps the most egregious example is on Only the Young, where they use this limpdicked prerecorded keyboard loop for the rhythm guitar... even while Jon is playing rhythm guitar...

Right now, Journey has 7 spectacular musicians on stage. Absolutely no reason in my view for them to be using any prerecorded shit.

I watched this a few times. The way I saw it, Jon ran up to his rig fast enough to get it started. Then Jason took over and Jon resumed rhythm guitar.

Honestly, man, I don't think that's what happened.

I think there's a prerecorded keyboard overlay for the intro to TWWUTB, like there is with the live intro to Ask the Lonely. If you watch any recording of Jon playing the intro to ATL, he's on the Fazio baby grand piano and there are prerecorded synths that overlay his piano keys.

Journey's had a bad habit of prerecorded synths for years: Only the Young's rhythm guitar riff, Wildest Dreams chorus, Never Walk Away's chorus, Suzanne, I'll Be Alright Without You, Send Her My Love, etc.

I agree with you.

Even on the recorded version, it sounds like a keyboard loop...just playing the same few bars over and over again, most of the time.