Transcript of the US 'friendly fire' Video

[Carlitto H@kk]

Carlitto, with all due respect, i find your comments somewhat disturbing.

Firstly, your heart goes out to the A10 pilots?? Why?? These 2 pilots broke around 7 rules of combat according to news articles. One of these was to go it alone without waiting for confirmation that the targets they were about to bomb were either Allied troops or the enemy. Or do you consider the UK the enemy.
These 2 pilots should be in jail, but instead they are now promoted to training pilots on how to bomb. Absolutely degrading.

My heart goes out to the family of Matty Hull, you know the soldier that these 2 bombers butchered. They should be locked up for a long time. Suggest you read up on how many UK soldiers have been slain in these kind of fuckups. Its attempted cover ups like this that are widening the ever increasing gap between our 2 countries.

Andrew may i suggest that this thread be closed now before i really start to vent my fuckin frustration here.

First of all, I haven't read the news in ages so I didn't know anything about this incident
until Behshad posted here. Thanks to you, I know the name of the soldier
that perished in this unfortunate instance and my "heart goes out to his families as well".

And your remark "Or do you consider the UK the enemy?"
FUCK YOU and your narrow-minded train of adolecent thought.
Not that it's any of your business but I've been to that region of
the world TWELVE FUCKING TIMES in the past 16 years and I
am going back in July for another 6 months.
I have been stationed with and fought along side troops from the UK,
France, Australia and others every single time and hold
THEM ALL in the highest regard.

What have you done?
Played Couch General from in front of your TV?
Again, FUCK YOU.

You want to hang these 2 pilots out to dry because of a'mistake'.
Yes, a mistake. Guess what? They happen, even in War with all the
high-tech super gizmos out there.
I haven't read the CNN or MSNBC stories but I've read the
transcript and understand EVERYTHING that was being said between ALL
involved and I can tell you this: The pilots were NOT the only ones at fault.
There were miscues and confusion coming from everywhere,
on the ground, the Eyes-In-The-Sky and so on.

FF deaths are a part of EVERY war. Accidents happen.
These guys don't need to go to jail.
The jail they are gonna have to suffer in is in
their own minds, hearts and souls because
they are going to forever have to live with the fact
that they DID MAKE THIS UNFORTUNATE MISTAKE.
It's good that they are still active and being allowed
to 'train' pilots now. Even if asked, they would probably
have a hard time ever driving a real-world mission again.

So yeah, My heart goes out to them and if that
"DISTURBS" you well then TOO FUCKING BAD.

Go sign up, grab a gun and some ChemGear
and hop on that plane with me in July.

Otherwise, don't bring your sorry-ass whining
and hurt feelings my way.

[conversationpc]

So how bout that crazy astronaut chick, huh?

How bizarre was that? Maybe being in space for that long does something to some peoples' brains.

Kinda like being on the melodicrock.com message boards for an extended period of time...

I'm sure it's not nearly as much fun though.

Sure it is, in a masochistic kind of way.

[Matthew]

Honestly - reading some of the posts in this thread - it's no wonder the international perception of America is that it is a brash, self-pitying country which can barely conceal its hatred of and ignorance about the Midle East.

...and it's been evident from some of your posts in the past just why Americans consider Europeans to be snooty and unaware just how in jeopardy your countries are to Islamic extremists. Look at what's happening in regards to the Islamic community there. People are afraid in many European countries to say what they think about radical elements within the Muslim community for fear that they will be labeled as hatemongers or even just politically incorrect. Talk about people who are ignorant of the Middle East.

Dave - just because I'm not some jack-booted far right nutcase it doesn't follow that I'm "politically correct". I'm totally aware of the threat of Islamic extremists. The London bombings which killed over 50 people took place a few minutes away from my house. And I support the efforts of the anti-terrorist unit of the police and our intelligence services to hunt down the radical elements within our Islamic community. And they're doing a great job.

As for people not saying what they think...well, I have no idea where you get that idea from. Our newspapers cover the political spectrum in much the same way as your media does. But most people are smart enough to know that the vast majority of Muslims in this country are moderate and that the decision to start the Iraq war had nothing to do with Islamic extremists in any case.

All I'm saying is that the activities and speeches of a tiny handful of lunatics in the local Mosque isn't enough to cause a national emergency or to create arrogance and complacency about the death toll in Iraq.

The terrrorists want racial and religious divisions and conflicts...they want us to live in fear of anything that is 'other'...they want to breed resentment and bigotry. And I have to say it seems that they have been much more successful with this strategy in your country than they have in mine.

[Skylorde]

So how bout that crazy astronaut chick, huh?

hey NIG, how long does it take a Astronaut to drive from Texas to Florida?

I'll let you have a few guesses first...

[ohsherrie]

.............. I support the efforts of the anti-terrorist unit of the police and our intelligence services to hunt down the radical elements within our Islamic community. And they're doing a great job.

Yes they are Matt. In fact, a better job of it than ours are over here, IMO.

But most people are smart enough to know that the vast majority of Muslims in this country are moderate and that the decision to start the Iraq war had nothing to do with Islamic extremists in any case.

Exactly. That was my point. We should have stuck with the program in Afghanistan and Pakistan, taken care of that matter, then utilized our resources to ferret out the threats within our borders.

The terrrorists want racial and religious divisions and conflicts...they want us to live in fear of anything that is 'other'...they want to breed resentment and bigotry. And I have to say it seems that they have been much more successful with this strategy in your country than they have in mine.

There's food for thought in that statement my friend.

[conversationpc]

Dave - just because I'm not some jack-booted far right nutcase it doesn't follow that I'm "politically correct". I'm totally aware of the threat of Islamic extremists. The London bombings which killed over 50 people took place a few minutes away from my house. And I support the efforts of the anti-terrorist unit of the police and our intelligence services to hunt down the radical elements within our Islamic community. And they're doing a great job.

Fortunately, Great Britain hasn't yet followed suit with the rest of the head-up-the-ass socialists from most of the rest of Europe.

As for people not saying what they think...well, I have no idea where you get that idea from. Our newspapers cover the political spectrum in much the same way as your media does. But most people are smart enough to know that the vast majority of Muslims in this country are moderate and that the decision to start the Iraq war had nothing to do with Islamic extremists in any case.

Well, newspapers in this country typically lean left to some degree or other. There are very few that represent a conservative viewpoint and those are usually considered a pariah amongst most journalists.

I'd be careful in saying that the "vast" majority of Muslims in your country or ours, for that matter, are moderate. Estimates range from 10-15% of all Muslims being considered radical. The word "vast" seems to indicate that it's a very small number but it just isn't the case. Taking even just the 10% number, that's around 100,000,000 of them throughout the world. Even many of those who aren't considered "radical" are in favor of Sharia law being imposed upon their governments, which basically means government by the Qur'an. That in itself is scary, in my opinion. Many think that it can't happen but many also thought that what Hitler did in Germany and eventually throughout much of Europe couldn't happen, either.

All I'm saying is that the activities and speeches of a tiny handful of lunatics in the local Mosque isn't enough to cause a national emergency or to create arrogance and complacency about the death toll in Iraq.

Again, one local Mosque having a radical leader isn't a big deal. However, having lots of local mosques located throughout the country, many with radical clerics leading them, IS a big deal.

The terrrorists want racial and religious divisions and conflicts...they want us to live in fear of anything that is 'other'...they want to breed resentment and bigotry. And I have to say it seems that they have been much more successful with this strategy in your country than they have in mine.

You don't really believe that tripe do you? Fully 2/3 or 70%, depending on what polls you believe, of Americans now do not support the war in Iraq. Most Americans aren't living in fear of anything that is 'other' or hold any resentment or bigotry against Muslims who are not radicals.

[conversationpc]

Yes they are Matt. In fact, a better job of it than ours are over here, IMO.

Um...We haven't been attacked here again since 9/11 and we now know of several times that terrorist plans were thwarted. Besides that, some of these stings conducted overseas were conducted in concert with American intelligence, if I'm not mistaken.

[Barb]

Yes they are Matt. In fact, a better job of it than ours are over here, IMO.

Um...We haven't been attacked here again since 9/11 and we now know of several times that terrorist plans were thwarted.

I was just about to say the same thing.

[jrnychick]

Honestly - reading some of the posts in this thread - it's no wonder the international perception of America is that it is a brash, self-pitying country which can barely conceal its hatred of and ignorance about the Midle East.

...and it's been evident from some of your posts in the past just why Americans consider Europeans to be snooty and unaware just how in jeopardy your countries are to Islamic extremists. Look at what's happening in regards to the Islamic community there. People are afraid in many European countries to say what they think about radical elements within the Muslim community for fear that they will be labeled as hatemongers or even just politically incorrect. Talk about people who are ignorant of the Middle East.

Dave - just because I'm not some jack-booted far right nutcase it doesn't follow that I'm "politically correct". I'm totally aware of the threat of Islamic extremists. The London bombings which killed over 50 people took place a few minutes away from my house. And I support the efforts of the anti-terrorist unit of the police and our intelligence services to hunt down the radical elements within our Islamic community. And they're doing a great job.

As for people not saying what they think...well, I have no idea where you get that idea from. Our newspapers cover the political spectrum in much the same way as your media does. But most people are smart enough to know that the vast majority of Muslims in this country are moderate and that the decision to start the Iraq war had nothing to do with Islamic extremists in any case.

All I'm saying is that the activities and speeches of a tiny handful of lunatics in the local Mosque isn't enough to cause a national emergency or to create arrogance and complacency about the death toll in Iraq.

The terrrorists want racial and religious divisions and conflicts...they want us to live in fear of anything that is 'other'...they want to breed resentment and bigotry. And I have to say it seems that they have been much more successful with this strategy in your country than they have in mine.

Matthew,
I don't know that your perception of Americans and bigotry is correct. I have extended family in England. While I was there in October of 2006, one of the things we talked about was the problem they have with immigration from the middle east. Everyone I spoke to expressed a high level of concern about people of British descent becoming the minority. The people I spoke to were very upset about this. They were not only worried about terrorism, but also about immigrants taking their jobs. If I took their comments as a reflection of the UK as a whole, I could easily draw the same conclusion that about your country as you have drawn about mine. The greatest thing about both of our countries is that there is room for dissenting opinions, and we can't make broad statements based on the opinions of a few. In my daughter's school, there are kids from America, Russia, Ukraine, India, Pakistan, Iran, China, Korea, Japan, and Mexico. Those are the nationalities I know of for certain. Some of the kids are Christian, some Jewish, some Muslim, some Buddhist, and some are Athiests. When we go to the park to play, we are guaranteed to hear people speaking a language other than English. It happens as well EVERY time we go to a store or restaurant. Believe it or not, there are many of us here who live amonst each other in peace. The kids have playdates with each other and attend each other's birthday parties. My daughter is growing up in a society where different backgrounds are valued and respected. We're not all bigoted jerks here.

[Behshad]

Honestly - reading some of the posts in this thread - it's no wonder the international perception of America is that it is a brash, self-pitying country which can barely conceal its hatred of and ignorance about the Midle East.

...and it's been evident from some of your posts in the past just why Americans consider Europeans to be snooty and unaware just how in jeopardy your countries are to Islamic extremists. Look at what's happening in regards to the Islamic community there. People are afraid in many European countries to say what they think about radical elements within the Muslim community for fear that they will be labeled as hatemongers or even just politically incorrect. Talk about people who are ignorant of the Middle East.

Dave - just because I'm not some jack-booted far right nutcase it doesn't follow that I'm "politically correct". I'm totally aware of the threat of Islamic extremists. The London bombings which killed over 50 people took place a few minutes away from my house. And I support the efforts of the anti-terrorist unit of the police and our intelligence services to hunt down the radical elements within our Islamic community. And they're doing a great job.

As for people not saying what they think...well, I have no idea where you get that idea from. Our newspapers cover the political spectrum in much the same way as your media does. But most people are smart enough to know that the vast majority of Muslims in this country are moderate and that the decision to start the Iraq war had nothing to do with Islamic extremists in any case.

All I'm saying is that the activities and speeches of a tiny handful of lunatics in the local Mosque isn't enough to cause a national emergency or to create arrogance and complacency about the death toll in Iraq.

The terrrorists want racial and religious divisions and conflicts...they want us to live in fear of anything that is 'other'...they want to breed resentment and bigotry. And I have to say it seems that they have been much more successful with this strategy in your country than they have in mine.

Matthew,
I don't know that your perception of Americans and bigotry is correct. I have extended family in England. While I was there in October of 2006, one of the things we talked about was the problem they have with immigration from the middle east. Everyone I spoke to expressed a high level of concern about people of British descent becoming the minority. The people I spoke to were very upset about this. They were not only worried about terrorism, but also about immigrants taking their jobs. If I took their comments as a reflection of the UK as a whole, I could easily draw the same conclusion that about your country as you have drawn about mine. The greatest thing about both of our countries is that there is room for dissenting opinions, and we can't make broad statements based on the opinions of a few. In my daughter's school, there are kids from America, Russia, Ukraine, India, Pakistan, Iran, China, Korea, Japan, and Mexico. Those are the nationalities I know of for certain. Some of the kids are Christian, some Jewish, some Muslim, some Buddhist, and some are Athiests. When we go to the park to play, we are guaranteed to hear people speaking a language other than English. It happens as well EVERY time we go to a store or restaurant. Believe it or not, there are many of us here who live amonst each other in peace. The kids have playdates with each other and attend each other's birthday parties. My daughter is growing up in a society where different backgrounds are valued and respected. We're not all bigoted jerks here.

Excellent post!! And good for you and your daughter!

[MCC620]

Hey Carl........you know I back you and your troops 100%. You, your wife, your daughter and the little one on the way shall remain in my prayers always. I am honored to have gotten to know such a fine man on these boards.

[Red13JoePa]

We're gonna need a new Carlitto theme song soon with this development.

Lar, have you contacted Bernie Taupin yet regards to this matter?

[Andrew]

What have you done?
Played Couch General from in front of your TV?
Again, FUCK YOU.
.

We can do without the fuck you's thanks very much.

[conversationpc]

Matthew,
I don't know that your perception of Americans and bigotry is correct. I have extended family in England. While I was there in October of 2006, one of the things we talked about was the problem they have with immigration from the middle east. Everyone I spoke to expressed a high level of concern about people of British descent becoming the minority. The people I spoke to were very upset about this. They were not only worried about terrorism, but also about immigrants taking their jobs. If I took their comments as a reflection of the UK as a whole, I could easily draw the same conclusion that about your country as you have drawn about mine. The greatest thing about both of our countries is that there is room for dissenting opinions, and we can't make broad statements based on the opinions of a few. In my daughter's school, there are kids from America, Russia, Ukraine, India, Pakistan, Iran, China, Korea, Japan, and Mexico. Those are the nationalities I know of for certain. Some of the kids are Christian, some Jewish, some Muslim, some Buddhist, and some are Athiests. When we go to the park to play, we are guaranteed to hear people speaking a language other than English. It happens as well EVERY time we go to a store or restaurant. Believe it or not, there are many of us here who live amonst each other in peace. The kids have playdates with each other and attend each other's birthday parties. My daughter is growing up in a society where different backgrounds are valued and respected. We're not all bigoted jerks here.

Well said.

[Red13JoePa]

What have you done?
Played Couch General from in front of your TV?
Again, FUCK YOU.
.

We can do without the fuck you's thanks very much.

You're being unAmerican!
(kidding).

[larryfromnextdoor]

We're gonna need a new Carlitto theme song soon with this development.

Lar, have you contacted Bernie Taupin yet regards to this matter?

red, you posted this in the wrong thread,, im staying out of this one man!!

[*Laura]

(Andrew)---->Just Say It

[ohsherrie]

Yes they are Matt. In fact, a better job of it than ours are over here, IMO.

Um...We haven't been attacked here again since 9/11 and we now know of several times that terrorist plans were thwarted. Besides that, some of these stings conducted overseas were conducted in concert with American intelligence, if I'm not mistaken.

No, we haven't been attacked since 9/11 but I don't think that has as any more to do with what our government has done than it has with the global awareness of that 9/11 generated. It certainly has nothing to do with what's going on in Iraq.

I'm not bigoted by any means. In fact, I'm a Liberal, remember? I'm also a realist.

[conversationpc]

No, we haven't been attacked since 9/11 but I don't think that has as any more to do with what our government has done than it has with the global awareness of that 9/11 generated. It certainly has nothing to do with what's going on in Iraq.

I'm not bigoted by any means. In fact, I'm a Liberal, remember? I'm also a realist.

Global awareness?

Some of the successes we've had are due to the wire-tapping program that many liberals are so freaked out about. That's hardly just due to "global awareness".

[Skylorde]

how long does it take a Astronaut to drive from Texas to Florida?

Since ya'll are waiting with baited breath, the answer is

IT DEPENDS!

Lighten up

[ohsherrie]

No, we haven't been attacked since 9/11 but I don't think that has as any more to do with what our government has done than it has with the global awareness of that 9/11 generated. It certainly has nothing to do with what's going on in Iraq.

I'm not bigoted by any means. In fact, I'm a Liberal, remember? I'm also a realist.

Global awareness?

Some of the successes we've had are due to the wire-tapping program that many liberals are so freaked out about. That's hardly just due to "global awareness".

I don't have a problem with the wire tapping if it's truly being used only for homeland security. I believe, in principle, that we're better of using wire taps than guns and bombs if they're used soley for their stated purpose.

[ohsherrie]

how long does it take a Astronaut to drive from Texas to Florida?

Since ya'll are waiting with baited breath, the answer is

IT DEPENDS!

Lighten up

Corny, but funny.

[Scarab Pilot]

how long does it take a Astronaut to drive from Texas to Florida?

Since ya'll are waiting with baited breath, the answer is

IT DEPENDS!

Lighten up

It's funny cause its true!

[Matthew]

Well, newspapers in this country typically lean left to some degree or other.

Ours tend to lean to the right...

There are very few that represent a conservative viewpoint and those are usually considered a pariah amongst most journalists.

Is this true of television news? Is - say - Fox a lone voice in the wilderness? And what about talk radio? And the new conservative imprints at the major New york publishing houses? I do take your point, Dave - but equally I'm not sure it's right t say that expression of conversative views is being stifled.

I'd be careful in saying that the "vast" majority of Muslims in your country or ours, for that matter, are moderate. Estimates range from 10-15% of all Muslims being considered radical.

I haven't come across estimates as high as that. I'm not saying you're wrog - but what are your sources here?

Many think that it can't happen but many also thought that what Hitler did in Germany and eventually throughout much of Europe couldn't happen, either.

Who exactlly are you comparing to Hitler? The radicals in the Muslim/American community? Do you honestly think they'll take over the White House and the Pentagon and put all the Christians in gas chambers?

Or are you talking about the President of Iran?

You don't really believe that tripe do you? Fully 2/3 or 70%, depending on what polls you believe, of Americans now do not support the war in Iraq. Most Americans aren't living in fear of anything that is 'other' or hold any resentment or bigotry against Muslims who are not radicals.

Is it possible that many Americans live in fear of terrorism AND oppose the war in Iraq? That the war in Iraq has actually increased anxiety about the threat of the Middle East?

You talk of this tolerance toward "Muslims who are not radicals" - but in numerous posts from you and other right-wing members of this site the distinctions between moderates and radicals, between Shis ad Sunnis, between Arabs and Persians, Saudis and Paelstinians are rarely made. All of the complexities and nuances are swept aside in favour of broad generalisations which demonise the entire Islamic world.

And whether or not most Americans are living in fear...you most certainly seem to be. Or is this unfair?

[Carlitto H@kk]

We can do without the fuck you's thanks very much.

Sorry Drew.
I got alittle fired up there at a particular statement,
"Or do you consider the UK the enemy?" and vented.
Might as well have called me a racist and biggot too

[donnaplease]

We can do without the fuck you's thanks very much.

Sorry Drew.
I got alittle fired up there at a particular statement,
"Or do you consider the UK the enemy?" and vented.
Might as well have called me a racist and biggot too

Well, for what it's worth Carl, I think you're probably one of the few of us here that has the right to get fired up over this kind of talk. It's so easy for us to be 'armchair quarterbacks', it's yet another thing to "walk the walk". Goes for all of us, myself included. I'll be praying for you while you're gone.

[Matthew]

I have extended family in England. While I was there in October of 2006, one of the things we talked about was the problem they have with immigration from the middle east. Everyone I spoke to expressed a high level of concern about people of British descent becoming the minority. The people I spoke to were very upset about this. They were not only worried about terrorism, but also about immigrants taking their jobs. If I took their comments as a reflection of the UK as a whole, I could easily draw the same conclusion that about your country as you have drawn about mine.

I'm not denying that Britain has it's fair share of bigots who believe that the white race will disappear in Britain...that immigrants are taking their jobs...and so on. We had these same attitudes towards the West Indian community in the 1960s and 1970s...and now toward the Muslims...and increasingly toward the East Europeans. Of course the jobs the immigrants do take are the ones no-one else wants and even after all these years of immigration the power in this country remains firmly with the overwhelming majority of white people.

In fact, these views are typical of at least one right-wing newspaper - The Daily Mail - which has a huge circulation here - so these views are possibly more mainstream than we like to admit. And the terrorist attacks have set race relations back here....even though we still have the most integrated society in Europe.

So it's true...we are no more or less tolerant or fearful than you are in the States, as you say. I take my previous comment back.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Damn, Matty!
I just can't get used to that
'keytar' Av!
You need to bring 'Randy' back...
DAWG!

[conversationpc]

Is this true of television news? Is - say - Fox a lone voice in the wilderness? And what about talk radio? And the new conservative imprints at the major New york publishing houses? I do take your point, Dave - but equally I'm not sure it's right t say that expression of conversative views is being stifled.

Out of all the major networks, Fox is certainly a "lone voice in the wilderness". Most conservatives won't admit that Fox leans conservative at all. That's just as dumb as saying, for instance, that NBC news or CNN aren't liberal networks.

I haven't come across estimates as high as that. I'm not saying you're wrog - but what are your sources here?

I've heard this from various media outlets, including some moderate muslims who were raised in radical Islamic households. I don't know that there's ever been an actual study to determine the percentage, but I believe it's higher than most believe it is.

Who exactlly are you comparing to Hitler? The radicals in the Muslim/American community? Do you honestly think they'll take over the White House and the Pentagon and put all the Christians in gas chambers?

Or are you talking about the President of Iran?

No, I'm not saying they'll take over America at all, though they certainly want to harm us. Besides that, yes, President Ahmadinejad has said on more than one occasion that they would like to wipe Israel off the map. I'm certain that, given the chance, they would either nuke Israel or do whatever possible to kill as many Jews as possible. They would like to do the same to America if they could.

Is it possible that many Americans live in fear of terrorism AND oppose the war in Iraq? That the war in Iraq has actually increased anxiety about the threat of the Middle East?

No, I think too many people actually think that nothing will happen here again. I think that's extremely naive. That's not to say that we ought to live in fear, either, but I do think we need to be prepared and accept the possibility that another terrorist attack is indeed possible, if not probable.

You talk of this tolerance toward "Muslims who are not radicals" - but in numerous posts from you and other right-wing members of this site the distinctions between moderates and radicals, between Shis ad Sunnis, between Arabs and Persians, Saudis and Paelstinians are rarely made. All of the complexities and nuances are swept aside in favour of broad generalisations which demonise the entire Islamic world.

And whether or not most Americans are living in fear...you most certainly seem to be. Or is this unfair?

It's definitely unfair. I can't think of anyone on this site that I would consider to be bigoted towards Muslims in general. That's actually pretty ridiculous to even infer unless you have specific instances as evidence of this.

[Red13JoePa]

We're gonna need a new Carlitto theme song soon with this development.

Lar, have you contacted Bernie Taupin yet regards to this matter?

red, you posted this in the wrong thread,, im staying out of this one man!!

Well, me and you aren't smart enough to partake of the regualry scheduled discourse in this thread so I thought it best we at least do what dummies would do and talk about a good way to homage Carl in song again given the heavy nature of the topic at hand and his pending departure.