Classic Rock votes Perry #1 AOR vocalist

[Michigan Girl]

quote]REALLY?!? ...because his response ...

LOL, well my first thought was "bullshit" but SJ had already responded with that. I would say the Journey sound is the musical combination of NS & JC. Any really good tenor could bring enough to that mix to make it work.

is indicative of Donna's exact sentiment!! The Journey sound is, in fact, a replica of a Steve Perry
fronted band ...but nice try!! .

Where are you getting this crap? Donna said it was the emulating of Perry. I don't even mention Perry, lol..... Perry never played an instrument on a Journey recording as far as we know. Do you understand that I'm talking musically as in instrumentation? Even their instrumentals/seques, etc sound like Journey, as SJ has pointed out.

WTF are you talking about, instruments?!?! ...Perry's voice was his instrument, you said, "musical combination
of NS&JC and a really good Tenor." ...can you not read your own posts?!?! Do you suffer w/short term memory loss?!?

WTF is going on with your quotations?
This is what I said:
" I would say the Journey sound is the musical combination of NS & JC. <<<see the period at ends that specific thought?
"Any really good tenor could bring enough to that mix to make it work."

So Perry was just a really good tenor, nothing special? lol I have also said they sound like Journey with no vocals at all. They even sounded like Journey when they didn't have a tenor, when JSS was singing.

I feel like I'm wasting my time with one of those loons from the old days here, trying to explain the difference between instrumention and vocals. Maybe Perry had to show them what to play on guitar, keys, drums, and bass before they recorded anything.

NOMOTA, I was referring to one post ...the ONE I quoted ...
not every thought and opinion you've ever expressed in your entire life ...
I don't know you, but talk about effin' looney!!
Big deal, a period ...tell me how that changes your really good tenor?!?!

[Saint John]

Where were THEY before Steve Perry?!?!
What was the Journey sound before SP?!? Are they striving
to reach the pre-Perry era sound?!?!

This argument doesn't hold any water and I'll tell you why. It was the addition of Jonathan Cain and the complete overhaul of the sound that he brought that launched them into super-stardom. The classic "Journey sound" started with the addition of Jonathan Cain. He brought the famous key/synth intros and the huge choruses that weren't there prior to his arrival.

they are,
in fact, trying to replicate the most successful era of the Journey

We're pretty much in agreement here. Just look above to see who was the catalyst of that sound, though.

[Michigan Girl]

Where were THEY before Steve Perry?!?!
What was the Journey sound before SP?!? Are they striving
to reach the pre-Perry era sound?!?!

This argument doesn't hold any water and I'll tell you why. It was the addition of Jonathan Cain and the complete overhaul of the sound that he brought that launched them into super-stardom. The classic "Journey sound" started with the addition of Jonathan Cain. He brought the famous key/synth intros and the huge choruses that weren't there prior to his arrival.

they are,
in fact, trying to replicate the most successful era of the Journey

We're pretty much in agreement here. Just look above to see who was the catalyst of that sound, though.

I love the pre~Cain stuff, as do many ...so eek, I'm witnessing leakage in your little ol' boat!!

[Saint John]

I love the pre~Cain stuff, as do many ...so eek, I'm witnessing leakage in your little ol' boat!!

I'm not dissing the pre-Cain lineup in any way, but you have to admit that there was an instant uptick in sales, popularity and chart hits. Granted, part of that was due to the evolving music climate, but it's not a coincidence that Jon's addition, and the accompanying shift in musical direction, immediately brought them their most popular song, their biggest chart hit and their best selling album.

[Rhiannon]

This argument doesn't hold any water and I'll tell you why. It was the addition of Jonathan Cain and the complete overhaul of the sound that he brought that launched them into super-stardom. The classic "Journey sound" started with the addition of Jonathan Cain. He brought the famous key/synth intros and the huge choruses that weren't there prior to his arrival.

...Tito?

[Saint John]

This argument doesn't hold any water and I'll tell you why. It was the addition of Jonathan Cain and the complete overhaul of the sound that he brought that launched them into super-stardom. The classic "Journey sound" started with the addition of Jonathan Cain. He brought the famous key/synth intros and the huge choruses that weren't there prior to his arrival.

...Tito?

...

[Michigan Girl]

I love the pre~Cain stuff, as do many ...so eek, I'm witnessing leakage in your little ol' boat!!

I'm not dissing the pre-Cain lineup in any way, but you have to admit that there was an instant uptick in sales, popularity and chart hits. Granted, part of that was due to the evolving music climate, but it's not a coincidence that Jon's addition, and the accompanying shift in musical direction, immediately brought them their most popular song, their biggest chart hit and their best selling album.

Sure, now we're in the same boat!!!
To what would you attribute the bands decline?!?
Other than the obvious music climate ...because we know that isn't the entire story!!

[Saint John]

To what would you attribute the bands decline?!? Other than the obvious music climate ...because we know that isn't the entire story!!

The long layoff, ROR, TBF, the departure of Steve Perry and the inability, until now, to find an excellent singer. That said, the jury is still out on Arnel's ability to gel with the band and create chemistry, but we should have a pretty good idea soon.

[steveo777]

To what would you attribute the bands decline?!? Other than the obvious music climate ...because we know that isn't the entire story!!

The long layoff, ROR, TBF, the departure of Steve Perry and the inability, until now, to find an excellent singer. That said, the jury is still out on Arnel's ability to gel with the band and create chemistry, but we should have a pretty good idea soon.

Arnel will either shine because the next album is gonna be his, or the band is fucked. One of two ways this will go, but I'm believin they'll pull out something passable and possibly very good.

[Saint John]

To what would you attribute the bands decline?!? Other than the obvious music climate ...because we know that isn't the entire story!!

The long layoff, ROR, TBF, the departure of Steve Perry and the inability, until now, to find an excellent singer. That said, the jury is still out on Arnel's ability to gel with the band and create chemistry, but we should have a pretty good idea soon.

Arnel will either shine because the next album is gonna be his, or the band is fucked. One of two ways this will go, but I'm believin they'll pull out something passable and possibly very good.

I disagree. The next album could suck giraffe cock and they'll still be able to tour successfully for years to come on the strength of the back catalog that they helped make famous. Honestly, putting out an album probably poses more risks than rewards. And this album will be like nothing they've done before ... if I'm reading between the lines correctly.

[Don]

To what would you attribute the bands decline?!? Other than the obvious music climate ...because we know that isn't the entire story!!

The long layoff, ROR, TBF, the departure of Steve Perry and the inability, until now, to find an excellent singer. That said, the jury is still out on Arnel's ability to gel with the band and create chemistry, but we should have a pretty good idea soon.

Arnel will either shine because the next album is gonna be his, or the band is fucked. One of two ways this will go, but I'm believin they'll pull out something passable and possibly very good.

I disagree. The next album could suck giraffe cock and they'll still be able to tour successfully for years to come on the strength of the back catalog that they helped make famous. Honestly, putting out an album probably poses more risks than rewards. And this album will be like nothing they've done before ... if I'm reading between the lines correctly.

I agree with this. They could have just kept touring with out going to the studio if they could have forseen how this summer was going to end up being a huge DSB Bonanza. As it is, they are going to be doing a greatest hits tour in the UK with Foreigner and Styx. This album may as well be Generations part 2 (which I think Neal realizes, that's why he isn't concerned about it getting radio play).
Cain said awhile ago that is was time for them to just stick to their legacy msuic and that is what Arnel brings to the table for them.
The only ones concerned about this new album succeeding are Arnel's personal fans who are hoping for it to build on his popularity outside of his little circle of admirers. It's not happening. Arnel is not Sammy Hagar and, as Neal likes to say to say to the loons, the music is bigger than any one person. The same statement goes for the pinheads also, their guy is just another cog in the wheel of the Journey machine. Just enjoy the music and be happy that your guy is now making enough money so he doesn't have to eat out of ALPO cans anymore.

[Michigan Girl]

To what would you attribute the bands decline?!? Other than the obvious music climate ...because we know that isn't the entire story!!

The long layoff, ROR, TBF, the departure of Steve Perry and the inability, until now, to find an excellent singer. That said, the jury is still out on Arnel's ability to gel with the band and create chemistry, but we should have a pretty good idea soon.

Fair …I happen to love TBF and ROR, but due to lack of sales/interest, let’s
say all Journey fans did not share my love. We know, however, that many bands
have been known to put out a clunker or two, yet managed to get past that w/continued success.
We also know that several bands survived the change in the musical climate and
remain successful today, e.g. Bon Jovi , Bruce, U2.
So I’m going to say the decline of Journey came w/the departure of SP …oh yes I did!!

I became a fan of Journey w/the inclusion of SP, at which time, I immediately delved
into the pre~Perry stuff …most of which, I’m just not a huge fan of. I did lose interest w/the
departure of SP, but have since found some love for Arrival.

You have indicated that you are not a fan of pre~Escape nor post~Frontiers SP era
Journey. I’m not sure about your Augeri~era taste …and then, Revelation! Are you a
bigger/better Journey fan than I?!?!

What about you, Joepa?!?! Do you love everything Journey?!?! Although, you seem to show great disdain
for Sam on occasion …are you the number one fan?!? What is the definition of Journey~Fanship?!?
Why doesn’t someone explain this to us and save us all a huge amount of time?!?! No rush!!

[Saint John]

So I’m going to say the decline of Journey came w/the departure of SP …oh yes I did!!

I think it came before his departure ... and kept on going with Augeri. ROR was a disaster. You went from 8 million albums to 2. That's a 75% loss, and then another 50% from ROR to TBF. There has recently been an uptick with Arnel, but we'll see if it's sustained or not.

You have indicated that you are not a fan of pre~Escape nor post~Frontiers SP era
Journey.

Generally speaking, that's true. However, The Party's Over, a Perry written tune pre-Escape, is in my top 3!

I’m not sure about your Augeri~era taste

Let's be brutally honest here. Arrival and TBF suffer from the same thing ... there is nothing special about the vocal performances. I will, however, exclude When You Love A Woman, If He Should Break Your Heart and Kiss Me Softly from that statement.

[donnaplease]

They even sounded like Journey when they didn't have a tenor, when JSS was singing.

Wow! That's not what Jon & Neal said. Per their statements, the sole reason for hiring Arnel (and considering Jeremey prior) is to 'get back to the Journey sound'. As I said, if not to emulate SP, what else was there to 'get back' to? The other components are the same (except for Smitty).

I don't get why you guys try to re-create history by arguing this stuff. When the 2 main players in the current lineup admit that they are stuck in the past, why are you so unwilling to admit it yourselves?

[Michigan Girl]

My point being ...how dare anyone criticize the fans of a particular singer of a band, when you, for example, can
count the number of songs you like, by said band, on one hand ...yet, still refer to yourself as a fan?!?!

To Joepa, bring it ...and please, find Frank's post if it will make your argument more credible!!

[donnaplease]

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... emID=74739

JOURNEY Keyboardist Explains JEFF SCOTT SOTO Dismissal - June 15, 2007

JOURNEY keyboardist Jonathan Cain recently spoke to Showbuzz about the dismissal of singer Jeff Scott Soto (YNGWIE MALMSTEEN, TALISMAN). "We wish Jeff the best of luck," Jonathan Cain said. "We just wanted to move in a different direction sonically. We're interested in our legacy right now. We want to sound like our records and we want to sound like the 65 million units that are out there." Cain praised Soto for stepping in for Steve Augeri, whose throat problems forced him to stop performing in the middle of the DEF LEPPARD tour last July. The band named Soto their permanent lead singer in December.

"Soto came in," said Cain. "We were grateful for his energy and his time and his talent. We had a good 11 months with him."

[annie89509]

Whooo boy I see SP Dismissers out in full force tonight....
The Journey sound is combination of NS/JC?!?!
SP only brought good tenor vocals to the band?!
SJ only likes a few of their albums…but he’s a Journey fan and the Loons are not?!
What revisionist history crap
Where’s JfromB when you need him

[youkeepmewaiting]

Everytime it's the same old debate!

Journeys commercial and - imo - great sound came with the addition of JC. Him, SP and NS all helped to create that sound. Let them all carry on doing what they are doing.

What annoys me about the people who don't think Journey should carry on playing those songs is that they are the same people who wouldn't/didn't mind Perry doing.

I love Perry and he is my favourite singer ever but Journey can carry on - and have done - with somebody else. Will Arnel make this band great and succesful again? No of course not.. but will he hit some amazing notes live and not duck them like Augeri (though I did enjoy Augeri on disk a lot) ? Most definitely.

Perry could come back tomorrow and I honestly believe nobody apart from the couple of hundred on this forum would care that much. Journey arn't Led Zep, Floyd or even Van Halen. They are a band from the 80s that never got past the 80s. They are dated, with or without Perry.

But I love Journeys 80s sound and will carry on enjoying it. If they bring out another typical Journey album next year then I'll be dissapointed because I want to hear what they could do if they threw out the book. But that being said I'll probably enjoy the album anyway because there will be some great songs on it.

And also I'm pretty sick of people just shrugging off JCs influence in the band. People may or may not like it but it was HIS influence that completed that Journey sound... luckily in the 80s Perry was able to tell him when something was shit and just use the good stuff and nowadays I don't think NS has the energy to argue and just goes with it .... but we shall see next year won't we.

As a collective they made some amazing music. Apart they made some very good music. Lets hear more.

[Author2]

Look at you go! Ouch...but so true!! People need to pull their head out of their asses and understand this. SP with Journey was great while it lasted. Some things will never be again and this is one of those things. Pineda brings the band the ability to provide the "Journey sound", nothing more, nothing less. That is what he gets paid to do. I'm ok with that.

And what exactly is the "journey sound"...? The ability to emulate STEVE MF PERRY!

This is to be expected from those who are Perry fans rather than Journey fans.

And from RollingStone magazine... (a Perry fan?)

"Journey Believin with the Filipino Steve Perry sound-alike Arnel Pineda." (RS 7/10-24/2008 Top 40 p110)

[Don]

And also I'm pretty sick of people just shrugging off JCs influence in the band. People may or may not like it but it was HIS influence that completed that Journey sound... luckily in the 80s Perry was able to tell him when something was shit and just use the good stuff and nowadays I don't think NS has the energy to argue and just goes with it .... but we shall see next year won't we.

As a collective they made some amazing music. Apart they made some very good music. Lets hear more.

This is a great supposition and probably right on the mark.

[Rockindeano]

So I’m going to say the decline of Journey came w/the departure of SP …oh yes I did!!

I think it came before his departure ... and kept on going with Augeri. ROR was a disaster. You went from 8 million albums to 2. That's a 75% loss, and then another 50% from ROR to TBF. There has recently been an uptick with Arnel, but we'll see if it's sustained or not.

I would LOVE to know what album sold 8 million? If you are referring to Frontiers, at that time, it was at 3 million, and to this day, it hasn't sold close to 8 million...it's still stuck at 6 million. So, more correctly, it was a loss of about 33% from Frontiers to ROR. Then, it was down another 33% to TBF. Technically though, TBF never sold a million. It was registered as a million sold, but that was actually a million shipped. Anyway, just wanted to correct your erroneous figures.

Also, during that time span, music was changing. The old horses of rock were losing some muster at that time, save for a few. Journey's "change of direction," which I applaud SP for doing, as an effort to stay relevant, might have affected the sales of ROR.

And for the last fucking time, there is no Goddamned "uptick" with Pineda. It's fuzzy math, creative album counting, ridiculous low Wal Mart pricing, and a bunch of fucking Pinoys buying the album. You know damned well without the Pinoy fanbase, that album doesn't move 200,ooo units, no way.

You have indicated that you are not a fan of pre~Escape nor post~Frontiers SP era
Journey.

Generally speaking, that's true. However, The Party's Over, a Perry written tune pre-Escape, is in my top 3!

So you like two albums from the Classic lineup, and Revelations? That's fucking "out there."

I’m not sure about your Augeri~era taste

Let's be brutally honest here. Arrival and TBF suffer from the same thing ... there is nothing special about the vocal performances. I will, however, exclude When You Love A Woman, If He Should Break Your Heart and Kiss Me Softly from that statement.

I am as guilty as anyone for "embracing the shitty Augeri time era. Complete garbage.[/quote]

[fredinator]

And also I'm pretty sick of people just shrugging off JCs influence in the band. People may or may not like it but it was HIS influence that completed that Journey sound... luckily in the 80s Perry was able to tell him when something was shit and just use the good stuff and nowadays I don't think NS has the energy to argue and just goes with it .... but we shall see next year won't we.

As a collective they made some amazing music. Apart they made some very good music. Lets hear more.

This is a great supposition and probably right on the mark.

Not according to Kevin Shirley:

"Uh…it gets tougher when somebody in the band is frustrated. And there are frustrations in this band, for sure."

"Well…it's probably not the right time for me to do so, especially when we're finishing up a record. But it's not easy trying to make a record when there are opposing forces in the band. There's people who want to be in a heavy rock band, and there's people who want to have hit ballads. It's just a matter of who stamps their feet the loudest."

[steveo777]

And also I'm pretty sick of people just shrugging off JCs influence in the band. People may or may not like it but it was HIS influence that completed that Journey sound... luckily in the 80s Perry was able to tell him when something was shit and just use the good stuff and nowadays I don't think NS has the energy to argue and just goes with it .... but we shall see next year won't we.

As a collective they made some amazing music. Apart they made some very good music. Lets hear more.

This is a great supposition and probably right on the mark.

Not according to Kevin Shirley:

"Uh…it gets tougher when somebody in the band is frustrated. And there are frustrations in this band, for sure."

"Well…it's probably not the right time for me to do so, especially when we're finishing up a record. But it's not easy trying to make a record when there are opposing forces in the band. There's people who want to be in a heavy rock band, and there's people who want to have hit ballads. It's just a matter of who stamps their feet the loudest."

And Cain probably said fuck you guys, I'm not playing it.....on more than one occasion.

[Jana]

And also I'm pretty sick of people just shrugging off JCs influence in the band. People may or may not like it but it was HIS influence that completed that Journey sound... luckily in the 80s Perry was able to tell him when something was shit and just use the good stuff and nowadays I don't think NS has the energy to argue and just goes with it .... but we shall see next year won't we.

As a collective they made some amazing music. Apart they made some very good music. Lets hear more.

This is a great supposition and probably right on the mark.

Not according to Kevin Shirley:

"Uh…it gets tougher when somebody in the band is frustrated. And there are frustrations in this band, for sure."

"Well…it's probably not the right time for me to do so, especially when we're finishing up a record. But it's not easy trying to make a record when there are opposing forces in the band. There's people who want to be in a heavy rock band, and there's people who want to have hit ballads. It's just a matter of who stamps their feet the loudest."

Wow. Well, I love me some ballads on a Journey album. There had better be a few.

[Saint John]

I would LOVE to know what album sold 8 million? If you are referring to Frontiers, at that time, it was at 3 million, and to this day, it hasn't sold close to 8 million...it's still stuck at 6 million. So, more correctly, it was a loss of about 33% from Frontiers to ROR. Then, it was down another 33% to TBF. Technically though, TBF never sold a million. It was registered as a million sold, but that was actually a million shipped. Anyway, just wanted to correct your erroneous figures.

Good call. Big fuck up on my part. But time is the greatest judge of an album's worth, especially when it's the same band being compared. And 6 million to 2 million is still a drop of 66%.

Also, during that time span, music was changing. The old horses of rock were losing some muster at that time, save for a few. Journey's "change of direction," which I applaud SP for doing, as an effort to stay relevant, might have affected the sales of ROR.

Slippery When Wet, Hysteria and Appetite For Destruction all tell us that Journey's sound change was a huge error. Besides, it regressed to an older, dated 70's sound, not a more contemporary sound.

And for the last fucking time, there is no Goddamned "uptick" with Pineda. It's fuzzy math, creative album counting, ridiculous low Wal Mart pricing, and a bunch of fucking Pinoys buying the album. You know damned well without the Pinoy fanbase, that album doesn't move 200,ooo units, no way.

The numbers are the numbers. As of last count in the U.S., the package had moved about 800,000 units and was well over a million worldwide. Considering that doubles what the lineup with Augeri did in 10 years, it is definitely an uptick.

You have indicated that you are not a fan of pre~Escape nor post~Frontiers SP era
Journey.

So you like two albums from the Classic lineup, and Revelations? That's fucking "out there."

Escape and Frontiers are the backbone of the Journey catalog and are the albums I grew up listening to. ROR has a few good tunes on it, TBF has 2 and Revelation has 2 or 3. I don't really like anything pre-1980 from the band, with the exception of Loving You Is Easy and (at times) Just The Same Way. Perry's vocals were too high for me, the lyrics were terrible and the songs lacked choruses. I don't give a fuck about being patient, wheels in the sky, or spending precious time with a little girl, rather than making homemade love.

[NoMoreTails]

They even sounded like Journey when they didn't have a tenor, when JSS was singing.

Wow! That's not what Jon & Neal said. Per their statements, the sole reason for hiring Arnel (and considering Jeremey prior) is to 'get back to the Journey sound'. As I said, if not to emulate SP, what else was there to 'get back' to? The other components are the same (except for Smitty).

I don't get why you guys try to re-create history by arguing this stuff. When the 2 main players in the current lineup admit that they are stuck in the past, why are you so unwilling to admit it yourselves?

Again, I was speaking regarding musically/instrumentally if you see my entire post. Journey has their own unique sound regardless of vocals. I have said myself that I think JSS was let go because the WM deal required a more Perry-ish voice. However, I think they still sounded like Journey even with him on vocals.

[RedWingFan]

I don't give a fuck about being patient, wheels in the sky, or spending precious time with a little girl, rather than making homemade love.

But you get wood from "there is no I in team" lyrics? Aren't nearly half of Neil's band's setlist pre-1981?

Lights,LTS, AWYWI, WITS, Stay Awhile, Where Were You, La Do Da.

I'm sure Neil has instructed his "mail order vocalist" to assrape these songs at one time or another.

What do you do when they play them live? Yell at Cain to play "Every Generation"?

How you can try to slam "Precious Time" and vouch for a crappy Revelations cd that has 3 good songs that drown in a lake of afterthought filler is beyond me.

[Saint John]

But you get wood from "there is no I in team" lyrics?

The song is a sports-themed song. It's an the vein of Eye Of The Tiger and is chock full of sports cliches. Big deal.

Aren't nearly half of Neal's band's setlist pre-1981?

No. Here was the typical Revelation set list:

"Majestic"
"Never Walk Away"
"Only the Young"
"Stone in Love"
"Ask the Lonely"
"After All These Years"
"Change for the Better"
"Separate Ways"
"Be Good to Yourself"
"Lights"
"Open Arms"
"Where Did I Lose Your Love"
"Don't Stop Believin'"
"Faithfully"
"Wildest Dream"
"Rubicon"
"Wheel in the Sky"
"Anyway You Want It"
"Escape" (Encore)
"Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin'"

[FinnFreak]

Escape and Frontiers are the backbone of the Journey catalog and are the albums I grew up listening to. ROR has a few good tunes on it, TBF has 2 and Revelation has 2 or 3.

Gotta agree.

Escape & Frontiers are both 100% albums.

ROR is more of a SP solo with Journey - around 90%.

TBF slipped down to 75%, with some genuine SP gems.

Revelation was strange, a few quite good songs - 50%.


I remember the very day the first copy of ROR arrived to my home town - my class friend had been to the record shop in the bigger city nearby & bought it... and called over two of his friends, who he knew were nuts about Journey... I taped the listening session... hot spring afternoon... with Journey tunes... man, that was it - "sounds of the future"... for us, high school heroes, at least...


John -

[annie89509]

Don does this better than me, but:
ESCAPE - 10M
FRONTIERS - 6M
ROR - 2M
TBF - 1M

The point I want to make is the band is already on the decline in album-selling popularity from the height of Escape (their best effort...a masterpiece, no throwaway songs out of the bunch).

A lot of people hate ROR and SP's "direction" on it, but I agree with RnD, the times of the mid-80's called for that change in sound. And, even Neal and Jon have said that was the era of synthesizers and drum machines. But, it is easy just to put the blame on SP .
I have read a lot of back reviews over the years, and it seems Euros love ROR more than the American fans.