Kevin Shirley - The MelodicRock Interview

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Postby Jeremey » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:37 am

Holy crap, is this a conversation about lossless audio quality versus mp3 and the like in a Journey forum?
Love it! :)

FWIW although Kevin's comment about music being made in bedrooms does have a hint of behind the curtain elitism, I think his point was more related to people not being in "bands" any more and just sending files back and forth over the Internet to make records rather than being in a "band" with all the players in the room and having the organic interaction among musicians that creates the magic that just can't be found with a single person recording in their bedroom. That is an argument I've struggled with (as Eric and Stephen can attest to, LOL), but it's also an argument that presupposes a level playing field financially and really isn't fair if you just don't have the means to get a group of players from across the country (or the world) in a studio for weeks on end to woodshed a record to perfection.

I also think it's only relevant to certain genres...surely rock and country thrive on that musical give and take between players, but that's not to say a singer/songwriter or dance/pop/rap masterpiece can't be made with a cheap home studio set up in someone's basement or bedroom. The problem in this age is that it's SO accessible it's damned near impossible to find those gems amongst all the schlock out there.
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Postby sniper16 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:54 am

good point jer,but ithink when a little time and maybe some outside opinions are asked , a good song can become a great song, deviating from the writeres original vision, which i think is lost in this day of self funded, emailed files.
maybe kevin is talking about the MB record because he made them record it his way, within thier budget to get it done in 2 weeks, neal and jon have a little more to be able to front it, and stand to make more when its released even if they sell the same.
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Postby slucero » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:48 am

Jeremey wrote:Holy crap, is this a conversation about lossless audio quality versus mp3 and the like in a Journey forum?
Love it! :)

FWIW although Kevin's comment about music being made in bedrooms does have a hint of behind the curtain elitism, I think his point was more related to people not being in "bands" any more and just sending files back and forth over the Internet to make records rather than being in a "band" with all the players in the room and having the organic interaction among musicians that creates the magic that just can't be found with a single person recording in their bedroom. That is an argument I've struggled with (as Eric and Stephen can attest to, LOL), but it's also an argument that presupposes a level playing field financially and really isn't fair if you just don't have the means to get a group of players from across the country (or the world) in a studio for weeks on end to woodshed a record to perfection.

I also think it's only relevant to certain genres...surely rock and country thrive on that musical give and take between players, but that's not to say a singer/songwriter or dance/pop/rap masterpiece can't be made with a cheap home studio set up in someone's basement or bedroom. The problem in this age is that it's SO accessible it's damned near impossible to find those gems amongst all the schlock out there.



Yup... spot on... we don't have the labels cock-blocking all the crap (and a lot of the good too)... so it isn't like it used to be (when there were record stores but no internet) - when all we got was the "Cream of the cream"....

There's a lot to be said for the synergistic effect of writing with others... it definitely has its merits... There's an equal argument for how it also "water's down" the original writers focused intent...

As an example: John Lennon wrote mostly alone... although some of the Beatles greatest songs were collaborations...


I think more than anything, it really comes down to the writer(s) and just how diligent they are in selflessly serving the song... because the song will "tell" you when it's done.

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Postby Jeremey » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:37 am

brywool wrote:In those days, steroid use (the shot kind) was prevalent on tours. Journey's tours had tons of shows and tons of shows in a row. I remember a Showtime special where Steve said "I provide myself with preventative medicine" when asked how his voice could stand up. That was during the Departure tour. It's open to speculation what that was, but there weren't and aren't a lot of medicinal things out there that will keep your voice in shape. There just aren't. There are, however, things that can be done once you've overworked it. I know, even today, a lot of people opt for the steroid shots. Supposedly, if it's not over done, then you can get away with it (I'm skeptical about that). But man, with the kinds of tours that Journey was doing, and the range of those songs, I cannot imagine that he was not using steroids.

Doing a ton of shows like that compounds vocal fatigue. At some point it builds up to the point where you have to take a bit of time off just to shut up and let the swelling in your vocal chords go away. The only other way to get rid of it is steroids that I know of. Trust me, though I'm no brilliant singer, but I've tried to find the secret to 'singing every day at your best' without "help" since I first started performing as a kid and I'm an old dude now. The one way that you can POSSIBLY avoid this is by proper vocal technique. But you know, I've heard that for years and even with proper technique being used, people still get vocally fatigued. When you sing vocally fatigued, you have to work harder to 'get there'. Working harder, you push more. Pushing more will get you through the gig, but compound the swelling and it's a vicious circle. Add stress to that. Add age to that and you're GOING to have problems. Keep doing it and those problems become permanent.

Jeremey's the vocal God here, he can probably explain it better n me.


Thanks Bry (who's no slouch himself in the vocal department), just saw this....

RE steroids, yes, I'm sure Perry used them. I KNOW of two instances he used them (when he blew his voice out in Dallas and some midwestern town on Frontiers and ROR tours, according to Cain) and I wouldn't be surprised if they were used on the Escape tour, given his physical appearance during the Street Talk promotions. In fact, if Perry overused them to get through that mammoth Escape tour, it would explain a lot of the change of his vocal sound for the ST and Frontiers records. I also know that Steve Augeri overused them, and suffered one of the most common side effects from overuse (when using a steroid inhaler which was seen on stage during some shows), which was thrush mouth and an infection of the vocal cords.

I have used steroids, both tablets, and injections, a couple of times a year NOT due to vocal wear, but because of an outside illness. We've never cancelled a Frontiers show due to vocal health, but there's been times when allergies or sinus infections have been so bad there's been no way to sing without them. The problem becomes a reliance on steroids to mask over actual vocal damage. My ENT at Duke would NOT prescribe this medicine unless he was able to do a visual inspection of my vocal cords and make sure there was no damage in the FIRST place, only using them to allow me to do my job during a bout of sickness.

I've been lucky because the most shows I do are 3-4 times a week, getting 3-4 days between shows to rest and recuperate. Nobody really tours any more like Journey did in the early 80s, but then again nobody really cancels shows that often for strictly vocal issues either. In ONE Journey singer's case, I think steroids were used to run the guy into the ground when there was already obvious damage being done due to misuse of the voice.

As most people know, singers can't just replace their voices like guitarists can replace strings, etc. It's frustrating for other people in the band sometimes because it's relatively much easier to play through a head cold or flu. Now let a guitarist slam their fingers in a car door and go play guitar that night, and the shoe would be on the other foot, hahaha!
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Postby Saint John » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:33 am

Nostrildamus is on the phone with Mannatt, Phelps and Phillips as we speak. :lol: :roll: And Mini-Lee (Deano) is being coached his rebuttal from The Nut Hut. :lol:
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:21 am

Jeremey wrote:In ONE Journey singer's case, I think steroids were used to run the guy into the ground when there was already obvious damage being done due to misuse of the voice.


Messed up, if true (and I believe it is).
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Postby Jeremey » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:47 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Jeremey wrote:In ONE Journey singer's case, I think steroids were used to run the guy into the ground when there was already obvious damage being done due to misuse of the voice.


Messed up, if true (and I believe it is).


At least he made millions from it, LOL....
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Postby Ftloperry » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:15 pm

Good interview so far Andrew. Looking forward to part 2. :D
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Postby Deb » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:47 pm

sniper16 wrote:good point jer,but ithink when a little time and maybe some outside opinions are asked , a good song can become a great song, deviating from the writeres original vision, which i think is lost in this day of self funded, emailed files.
maybe kevin is talking about the MB record because he made them record it his way, within thier budget to get it done in 2 weeks, neal and jon have a little more to be able to front it, and stand to make more when its released even if they sell the same.


Maybe I'm naive here, but why would Journey stand to make more than MB if they sold the same? Actually, wouldn't Journey have a boatload more people to pay, Azoff, etc., etc........LOL I would think the MB guys would make more if they were to sell the exact same. :? Wonder if Journey's album will go gold within 24 hours somewhere too. :lol:
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Postby Deb » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:04 pm

Jeremey wrote:[RE steroids, yes, I'm sure Perry used them. I KNOW of two instances he used them (when he blew his voice out in Dallas and some midwestern town on Frontiers and ROR tours, according to Cain) and I wouldn't be surprised if they were used on the Escape tour, given his physical appearance during the Street Talk promotions. In fact, if Perry overused them to get through that mammoth Escape tour, it would explain a lot of the change of his vocal sound for the ST and Frontiers records. I also know that Steve Augeri overused them, and suffered one of the most common side effects from overuse (when using a steroid inhaler which was seen on stage during some shows), which was thrush mouth and an infection of the vocal cords.

I have used steroids, both tablets, and injections, a couple of times a year NOT due to vocal wear, but because of an outside illness. We've never cancelled a Frontiers show due to vocal health, but there's been times when allergies or sinus infections have been so bad there's been no way to sing without them. The problem becomes a reliance on steroids to mask over actual vocal damage. My ENT at Duke would NOT prescribe this medicine unless he was able to do a visual inspection of my vocal cords and make sure there was no damage in the FIRST place, only using them to allow me to do my job during a bout of sickness.



Sounds like it was prevelent in the 80s back when the bands toured so heavily, I remember JBJ talking about it on Behind The Music........about getting steriod injections in his neck all the time during the New Jersey tour, his dad was interviewed too (damn he looks like his old man :shock: ) and he was saying with Jon doing the two 250-300 show tours back to back like that he was pretty much toast by the end of the Jersey tour, physically and vocally.......but too many people were counting on the $$$ for him to stop. I could so see the similarities of JBJ and SP when they pretty much walked away after the NJ and ROR tours. But in the end things were handled much differently by the bands down the road, but then I think Richie and Neal are two very different animals. :lol:
Last edited by Deb on Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby portland » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:10 pm

Deb wrote:
Jeremey wrote:[RE steroids, yes, I'm sure Perry used them. I KNOW of two instances he used them (when he blew his voice out in Dallas and some midwestern town on Frontiers and ROR tours, according to Cain) and I wouldn't be surprised if they were used on the Escape tour, given his physical appearance during the Street Talk promotions. In fact, if Perry overused them to get through that mammoth Escape tour, it would explain a lot of the change of his vocal sound for the ST and Frontiers records. I also know that Steve Augeri overused them, and suffered one of the most common side effects from overuse (when using a steroid inhaler which was seen on stage during some shows), which was thrush mouth and an infection of the vocal cords.

I have used steroids, both tablets, and injections, a couple of times a year NOT due to vocal wear, but because of an outside illness. We've never cancelled a Frontiers show due to vocal health, but there's been times when allergies or sinus infections have been so bad there's been no way to sing without them. The problem becomes a reliance on steroids to mask over actual vocal damage. My ENT at Duke would NOT prescribe this medicine unless he was able to do a visual inspection of my vocal cords and make sure there was no damage in the FIRST place, only using them to allow me to do my job during a bout of sickness.



Sounds like it was prevelent in the 80s back when the bands toured so heavily, I remember JBJ talking about it on Behind The Music........about getting steriod injections in his neck all the time during the New Jersey tour, his dad was interviewed too (damn he looks like his old man :shock: ) and he was saying with Jon doing the two 200-300 show tours back to back like that he was pretty much toast by the end of the Jersey tour, physically and vocally.......but too many people were counting on the $$$ for him to stop. I could so see the similarities of JBJ and SP when they pretty much walked away after the NJ and ROR tours. Almost hard to believe how much is shouldered by lead singers. :shock: But in the end things were handled much differently by the bands down the road, but then I think Richie and Neal are two very different animals. :lol:



Ya think??? :lol:


There is mutal respect between the two of them, refreshing.
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Postby slucero » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:29 pm

and they both were drunks..

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Postby NoMoreTails » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:56 pm

Jeremey wrote:Wow, LOL...

Sounds like Kevin's had his fill of Journey. Reminds me of something that someone in Journey's management said to me once...."Why do you think anyone who's ever worked with [this guy] would never work with them again? Gregg Rolie, Carlos Santana, Steve Perry...they stay as far away from him is they can."


Neal played on a song on Gregg's first two solo records if memory serves, Neal was asked him to be in the Storm, then they worked together on the Abraxas Pool thing of course....Steve Smith has worked with Neal outside Journey on several occasions.
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Postby NoMoreTails » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:03 am

Deb wrote:
sniper16 wrote:good point jer,but ithink when a little time and maybe some outside opinions are asked , a good song can become a great song, deviating from the writeres original vision, which i think is lost in this day of self funded, emailed files.
maybe kevin is talking about the MB record because he made them record it his way, within thier budget to get it done in 2 weeks, neal and jon have a little more to be able to front it, and stand to make more when its released even if they sell the same.


Maybe I'm naive here, but why would Journey stand to make more than MB if they sold the same? Actually, wouldn't Journey have a boatload more people to pay, Azoff, etc., etc........LOL I would think the MB guys would make more if they were to sell the exact same. :? Wonder if Journey's album will go gold within 24 hours somewhere too. :lol:


The dollars per album deal Journey had with WalMart is unheard of with record companies. Don't get me wroing, I like Mr Big, but its a given they'll sell well in Japan, always did...they aren't going to sell like Revelation did in the US.
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Postby NoMoreTails » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:12 am

Jeremey wrote: Let's see, Cain has relocated across the country, Kevin Shirley adamantly refuses to discuss the new album.

I promise you if Neal could replace the entire band Journey with Arnel and Deen type subordinates, he would. In fact after this 2011 tour I wouldn't be surprised if we see that happen, LOL.


I don't doubt that Neal and Jon have their issues, but they have managed to work pretty well together for thirty years now with the occasional year off here and there. Cain was talking about moving to Nashvile seven or eight years ago. I think it was his interest in trying to launch his daughter's career that finally brought that move about rather than an attempt to get away from Neal. I think they were pretty much already moved before work on the new Journey cd had begun.
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Postby NoMoreTails » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:18 am

I think that rather than whine 'don't crack the stone' bs, etc Cain will stick around til the end to "protect the integrity of the music." This could well be the last round for this band but it will end when NS and JC feel that they're financially set for life (even the kids in Cain's case it would seem), not because they can't bare to work together any longer, in my opinion.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:32 am

NoMoreTails wrote:I think that rather than whine 'don't crack the stone' bs, etc Cain will stick around til the end to "protect the integrity of the music." This could well be the last round for this band but it will end when NS and JC feel that they're financially set for life (even the kids in Cain's case it would seem), not because they can't bare to work together any longer, in my opinion.

Protecting the integrity of the music ...lol, I don't think it would've been safe if those two were expected to be the competent parents!!
The end will come when Neal tells Jon to call himself w/an ultimatum ... :wink:
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Postby NoMoreTails » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:36 am

Michigan Girl wrote:
NoMoreTails wrote:I think that rather than whine 'don't crack the stone' bs, etc Cain will stick around til the end to "protect the integrity of the music." This could well be the last round for this band but it will end when NS and JC feel that they're financially set for life (even the kids in Cain's case it would seem), not because they can't bare to work together any longer, in my opinion.

Protecting the integrity of the music ...lol, I don't think it would've been safe if those two were expected to be the competent parents!!
The end will come when Neal tells Jon to call himself w/an ultimatum ... :wink:


LOL....after the screwing they agreed to from Perry, I don't think Neal will be willing to pay Jon through six or eight years of tours while he sits at home in Nashville.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:39 am

Deb wrote:
Jeremey wrote:[RE steroids, yes, I'm sure Perry used them. I KNOW of two instances he used them (when he blew his voice out in Dallas and some midwestern town on Frontiers and ROR tours, according to Cain) and I wouldn't be surprised if they were used on the Escape tour, given his physical appearance during the Street Talk promotions. In fact, if Perry overused them to get through that mammoth Escape tour, it would explain a lot of the change of his vocal sound for the ST and Frontiers records. I also know that Steve Augeri overused them, and suffered one of the most common side effects from overuse (when using a steroid inhaler which was seen on stage during some shows), which was thrush mouth and an infection of the vocal cords.

I have used steroids, both tablets, and injections, a couple of times a year NOT due to vocal wear, but because of an outside illness. We've never cancelled a Frontiers show due to vocal health, but there's been times when allergies or sinus infections have been so bad there's been no way to sing without them. The problem becomes a reliance on steroids to mask over actual vocal damage. My ENT at Duke would NOT prescribe this medicine unless he was able to do a visual inspection of my vocal cords and make sure there was no damage in the FIRST place, only using them to allow me to do my job during a bout of sickness.



Sounds like it was prevelent in the 80s back when the bands toured so heavily, I remember JBJ talking about it on Behind The Music........about getting steriod injections in his neck all the time during the New Jersey tour, his dad was interviewed too (damn he looks like his old man :shock: ) and he was saying with Jon doing the two 250-300 show tours back to back like that he was pretty much toast by the end of the Jersey tour, physically and vocally.......but too many people were counting on the $$$ for him to stop. I could so see the similarities of JBJ and SP when they pretty much walked away after the NJ and ROR tours. But in the end things were handled much differently by the bands down the road, but then I think Richie and Neal are two very different animals. :lol:
Good posts Jeremey and Deb ...I concur!! You get what you give!! :wink:
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Postby lights1961 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:51 am

awesome interview DREW... so far so good... that Kevin got a death threat from Iron Maiden fan...classic...
I get the being cynical about the music industry...

I remember reading here back in 1998 about Perry...and other sites regarding the TBF sessions during the 1995 time period...
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:11 am

NoMoreTails wrote:Neal played on a song on Gregg's first two solo records if memory serves, Neal was asked him to be in the Storm, then they worked together on the Abraxas Pool thing of course....Steve Smith has worked with Neal outside Journey on several occasions.


Sammy Hagar also seems to like collaborating with Neal. But there's no doubt, the guy's dificult to work with.
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Postby NoMoreTails » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:51 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
NoMoreTails wrote:Neal played on a song on Gregg's first two solo records if memory serves, Neal was asked him to be in the Storm, then they worked together on the Abraxas Pool thing of course....Steve Smith has worked with Neal outside Journey on several occasions.


Sammy Hagar also seems to like collaborating with Neal. But there's no doubt, the guy's dificult to work with.


Thanks, how could I forget the most obvious one?
Who has even implied anything about Neal being difficult other than a disgruntled producer and a couple of ex- or almost- singers? Everything I've seen from other musicians always seemed to be favorable about Neal as both someone to hang with and as a musician. Of course he may very well be, but what do we really have to draw this conclusion?
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Postby Jeremey » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:46 am

NoMoreTails wrote:
Jeremey wrote:Wow, LOL...

Sounds like Kevin's had his fill of Journey. Reminds me of something that someone in Journey's management said to me once...."Why do you think anyone who's ever worked with [this guy] would never work with them again? Gregg Rolie, Carlos Santana, Steve Perry...they stay as far away from him is they can."


Neal played on a song on Gregg's first two solo records if memory serves, Neal was asked him to be in the Storm, then they worked together on the Abraxas Pool thing of course....Steve Smith has worked with Neal outside Journey on several occasions.


I'm just repeating what I was told, ;)
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Postby NoMoreTails » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:31 am

Jeremey wrote:
NoMoreTails wrote:
Jeremey wrote:Wow, LOL...

Sounds like Kevin's had his fill of Journey. Reminds me of something that someone in Journey's management said to me once...."Why do you think anyone who's ever worked with [this guy] would never work with them again? Gregg Rolie, Carlos Santana, Steve Perry...they stay as far away from him is they can."


Neal played on a song on Gregg's first two solo records if memory serves, Neal was asked him to be in the Storm, then they worked together on the Abraxas Pool thing of course....Steve Smith has worked with Neal outside Journey on several occasions.


I'm just repeating what I was told, ;)


Well he and Gregg may not have worked together since the original reunion lineup was axed in favor of Perry so they may be talking about since 94 or so...I was thinking Neal was on a song on Gregg's cd a few years ago but I may be thinking of an older one.
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Postby Eric » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:00 am

Jeremey wrote:Wow, LOL...

Sounds like Kevin's had his fill of Journey. Reminds me of something that someone in Journey's management said to me once...."Why do you think anyone who's ever worked with [this guy] would never work with them again? Gregg Rolie, Carlos Santana, Steve Perry...they stay as far away from him is they can."


But he has worked with Rolie?
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Postby Eric » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:02 am

Jeremey wrote: I promise you if Neal could replace the entire band Journey with Arnel and Deen type subordinates, he would. In fact after this 2011 tour I wouldn't be surprised if we see that happen, LOL.


So....you mean replacing Cain and Valory with younger, hard working talented musicians? Okay. :D
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Postby Monker » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:24 pm

NoMoreTails wrote:
Jeremey wrote:Wow, LOL...

Sounds like Kevin's had his fill of Journey. Reminds me of something that someone in Journey's management said to me once...."Why do you think anyone who's ever worked with [this guy] would never work with them again? Gregg Rolie, Carlos Santana, Steve Perry...they stay as far away from him is they can."


Neal played on a song on Gregg's first two solo records if memory serves, Neal was asked him to be in the Storm, then they worked together on the Abraxas Pool thing of course....Steve Smith has worked with Neal outside Journey on several occasions.


True...but Abraxas Pool ended in a bad way. From what I understand, Neal never got on with the rest of the guys on stage...if you ever see a Rolie solo concert, there are a ton of solos - by everybody. It's what makes the concert. Neal just couldn't stand cutting himself off to let someone else solo. Then, they went from that to Journey, and Gregg/Chalfant were axed in favor of Perry. So, after that, I think Gregg had his fill of Neal and Journeyeque music...and he hasn't really gone back to it since. Sure, he joined them on stage for a show...but that is very different then going into the studio or on a full tour.

As far as Steve Smith...I think he finds being a studio musician for a song or two quite different then being in a band and wanting to contribute his ideas...just IMO.
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Postby STORY_TELLER » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:48 pm

Monker wrote:As far as Steve Smith...I think he finds being a studio musician for a song or two quite different then being in a band and wanting to contribute his ideas...just IMO.


I'm confused. I was under the impression that Neal has two solo projects in the works. One being a "power trio" approach between himself, Marco Mendoza and Dean C. The other a full album between Neal and Steve Smith. Is this incorrect? Is it just Smith sitting in on a couple of songs of the former project mentioned?
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Postby Monker » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:02 pm

STORY_TELLER wrote:
Monker wrote:As far as Steve Smith...I think he finds being a studio musician for a song or two quite different then being in a band and wanting to contribute his ideas...just IMO.


I'm confused. I was under the impression that Neal has two solo projects in the works. One being a "power trio" approach between himself, Marco Mendoza and Dean C. The other a full album between Neal and Steve Smith. Is this incorrect? Is it just Smith sitting in on a couple of songs of the former project mentioned?


What I am saying about Smith goes back to the TBF interviews where he said he approached it as a studio musician...which seemed to me he was saying he took in stride and did what he was asked to do and left it at that....not really trying to influence things much. He seems to do that in his own projects. Maybe he'll do that with Neal on his album, maybe not - I don't know.

Don't know much about the other guys in Abraxas Pool...but it did not sound like it was a happy band to be a part off...and I don't think Gregg was happy with the way it ended, or the way the way the Journey reunion was handled....and Neal was in the middle of all of that.

Finally, I couldn't care less about Neal's solo projects...just not interested much any longer.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:15 am

Eric wrote:
Jeremey wrote: I promise you if Neal could replace the entire band Journey with Arnel and Deen type subordinates, he would. In fact after this 2011 tour I wouldn't be surprised if we see that happen, LOL.


So....you mean replacing Cain and Valory with younger, hard working talented musicians? Okay. :D

Yeah, replace everyone and call it the Schon Neelers, cause it sure won't be Journey!! :?
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