City of Hope single - out today.

[S2M]

Why do they need long choruses? Maybe the point of Eclipse is to rock! Maybe they are keeping the choruses short and not too wordy so Neal can get to it faster! (I am hoping!)

Because the chorus and catchy hooks have always been what defines Journey. The whole thing about hiring Arnel was to augment that legacy sound according to Jon Cain. As people have said, if the band wanted to rock, they should have kept Soto. If they want to sound like their 75 million records that are out there (Jon's statement) why are they trying to be a hard rock band now?

So, there you have it. Journey said one thing and three years later, they are doing something different. I'm cool with them rocking but if others don't like it, who can blame them when the band basically reversed themselves from what they said three years ago?

"The Legacy sound and THEN SOME" also Jon Cain`s words!
With all respect for Soto..he couldn`t reproduce the legacy sound Pineda can and more and that is the reason why Pineda is Journey`s singer.
Pineda is Augeri and Soto combined!

Pineda is NOWHERE close to JSS....are you daft?!

[Saint John]

Why do they need long choruses? Maybe the point of Eclipse is to rock! Maybe they are keeping the choruses short and not too wordy so Neal can get to it faster! (I am hoping!)

Because the chorus and catchy hooks have always been what defines Journey. The whole thing about hiring Arnel was to augment that legacy sound according to Jon Cain. As people have said, if the band wanted to rock, they should have kept Soto. If they want to sound like their 75 million records that are out there (Jon's statement) why are they trying to be a hard rock band now?

So, there you have it. Journey said one thing and three years later, they are doing something different. I'm cool with them rocking but if others don't like it, who can blame them when the band basically reversed themselves from what they said three years ago?

I disagree. The legacy sound is soaring vocals and that's what they have. You can have soaring vocals and rock. Soto didn't have the legacy sound (soaring tenor, which is what they write their best music around) and doesn't have the *wow* to his voice like Arnel does (and he's not a tenor). Arnel's voice immediately caught the ears of critics and fans, and still does. Soto has a professionally serviceable voice and his major strengths are durability and adaptability. But I can't really envision any sort of musical direction where his voice would have been successful in Journey.

I do agree with you about the hooks and choruses, though. It's possible to have the legacy sound, rock and have catchy hooks and choruses. It seems like COH has the first two, but definitely not the latter. Chain Of Love, on the other hand, seems to have all 3. Resonate and Edge Of The Moment have promise, too. Human Feel is a unique beast and may be the rare exception of a Journey song that doesn't have a hook or chorus, but is still great. Time will tell.

[Don]

Why do they need long choruses? Maybe the point of Eclipse is to rock! Maybe they are keeping the choruses short and not too wordy so Neal can get to it faster! (I am hoping!)

Because the chorus and catchy hooks have always been what defines Journey. The whole thing about hiring Arnel was to augment that legacy sound according to Jon Cain. As people have said, if the band wanted to rock, they should have kept Soto. If they want to sound like their 75 million records that are out there (Jon's statement) why are they trying to be a hard rock band now?

So, there you have it. Journey said one thing and three years later, they are doing something different. I'm cool with them rocking but if others don't like it, who can blame them when the band basically reversed themselves from what they said three years ago?

"The Legacy sound and THEN SOME" also Jon Cain`s words!
With all respect for Soto..he couldn`t reproduce the legacy sound Pineda can and more and that is the reason why Pineda is Journey`s singer.
Pineda is Augeri and Soto combined!

Here's what Cain actually said.

"We're interested in our legacy right now. We want to sound like our records and we want to sound like the 65 million units that are out there."

[Ritchie]

Why do they need long choruses? Maybe the point of Eclipse is to rock! Maybe they are keeping the choruses short and not too wordy so Neal can get to it faster! (I am hoping!)

Because the chorus and catchy hooks have always been what defines Journey. The whole thing about hiring Arnel was to augment that legacy sound according to Jon Cain. As people have said, if the band wanted to rock, they should have kept Soto. If they want to sound like their 75 million records that are out there (Jon's statement) why are they trying to be a hard rock band now?

So, there you have it. Journey said one thing and three years later, they are doing something different. I'm cool with them rocking but if others don't like it, who can blame them when the band basically reversed themselves from what they said three years ago?

"The Legacy sound and THEN SOME" also Jon Cain`s words!
With all respect for Soto..he couldn`t reproduce the legacy sound Pineda can and more and that is the reason why Pineda is Journey`s singer.
Pineda is Augeri and Soto combined!

Pineda is NOWHERE close to JSS....are you daft?!

In Journey`s concept Pineda is perfect.
I didn`t say he is better than Soto he is more suitable for Journey because he does more justice to the classics and he can give them a good voice on the new stuff.

[S2M]

Stop burying my salient points with your nonsense verbiage, Dan....

[Don]

Why do they need long choruses? Maybe the point of Eclipse is to rock! Maybe they are keeping the choruses short and not too wordy so Neal can get to it faster! (I am hoping!)

Because the chorus and catchy hooks have always been what defines Journey. The whole thing about hiring Arnel was to augment that legacy sound according to Jon Cain. As people have said, if the band wanted to rock, they should have kept Soto. If they want to sound like their 75 million records that are out there (Jon's statement) why are they trying to be a hard rock band now?

So, there you have it. Journey said one thing and three years later, they are doing something different. I'm cool with them rocking but if others don't like it, who can blame them when the band basically reversed themselves from what they said three years ago?

I disagree. The legacy sound is soaring vocals and that's what they have. You can have soaring vocals and rock. Soto didn't have the legacy sound (soaring tenor, which is what they write their best music around) and doesn't have the *wow* to his voice like Arnel does (and he's not a tenor). Arnel's voice immediately caught the ears of critics and fans, and still does. Soto has a professionally serviceable voice and his major strengths are durability and adaptability. But I can't really envision any sort of musical direction where his voice would have been successful in Journey.

I do agree with you about the hooks and choruses, though. It's possible to have the legacy sound, rock and have catchy hooks and choruses. It seems like COH has the first two, but definitely not the latter. Chain Of Love, on the other hand, seems to have all 3. Resonate and Edge Of The Moment have promise, too. Human Feel is a unique beast and may be the rare exception of a Journey song that doesn't have a hook or chorus, but is still great. Time will tell.

I can agree with that to a point.
Until we hear the complete album, it's hard to say. Of course, Arnel can bring his high tenor to anything Journey writes but another big part of the band's legacy is weepy, powerful ballads and while I won't miss them, a lot of others will. Adult contemporary radio has been Journey's bread and butter for years and I don't believe that entire audience will migrate to this new sound and direction simply because it carries the Journey brand name.

[Don]

I like the beat of Human Feel and can't wait to hear the recorded version of Chain Of Love. If the rest of the album is closer to COL than Human Feel, I'll be all the happier.
As for City Of Hope, I listened to it quite a few time last week, trying to "let it grow" on me. This week, I haven't played it at all and right now can't even remember enough of it to even hum the melody, it's just that forgettable to me.

[Jana]

Stop burying my "so-called" salient points with your nonsense verbiage, Dan....

He's performing his public service for the week.

[NoMoreTails]

Just what is everyone looking for in a chorus anyway? If COH is not a big enough chorus I have to think you must want "Nah nah na nah nah na, na nah na nah nah.... Part II.

[Ritchie]

Just what is everyone looking for in a chorus anyway? If COH is not a big enough chorus I have to think you must want "Nah nah na nah nah na, na nah na nah nah.... Part II.

Yeah both songs are great and COH has a big ass chorus you can`t get around!
BUT...if you want to like it..you will like it..if you don`t want to like it ..you don`t like it..there seems to be no consensus.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Human Feel is a unique beast and may be the rare exception of a Journey song that doesn't have a hook or chorus, but is still great. Time will tell.

It actually has both.

[Saint John]

Human Feel is a unique beast and may be the rare exception of a Journey song that doesn't have a hook or chorus, but is still great. Time will tell.

It actually has both.

Fair enough. I should have been more specific and said "catchy hooks and choruses.". You know, using the traditional Journey formula.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Fair enough. I should have been more specific and said "catchy hooks and choruses.". You know, using the traditional Journey formula.

Out of all the tracks I've heard, "Resonate" and "Human Feel" are the most catchy (to me). "City of Hope" tries to hard and practically clobbers you over the head with its lame chorus.

[JourneyHard]

From Infinity through Departure, wasn't that part of "the Legacy sound?" Those albums didn't have wordy choruses, and they rocked, and they were JOURNEY's signature sound. Am I right?





I think Eclipse is going to be fine. I haven't heard the whole thing yet, but I think it will sound like Journey and ROCK. (I am hoping)

[Saint John]

Just what is everyone looking for in a chorus anyway? If COH is not a big enough chorus I have to think you must want "Nah nah na nah nah na, na nah na nah nah.... Part II.

Noh noh no noh noh no noh noh no ... Just think Separate Ways, WCN, After The Fall, MOL, etc. COH seems to be lacking in the "rememberability" department. It doesn't have that "stick in your head, sing along" element to it. I think that's what we're all saying. Chain Of Love, on the other hand, had me singing the chorus for DAYS after hearing it. I KNOW that fucker's a winner!!!

[NoMoreTails]

Just what is everyone looking for in a chorus anyway? If COH is not a big enough chorus I have to think you must want "Nah nah na nah nah na, na nah na nah nah.... Part II.

Noh noh no noh noh no noh noh no ...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Chain Of Love, on the other hand, had me singing the chorus for DAYS after hearing it. I KNOW that fucker's a winner!!!

Now may be a good time to offer a disclaimer listing ALL the Journey classics you hate with a passion. If you were this band's A&R man, over 70% of their catalog would have been trashed.

[Saint John]

Chain Of Love, on the other hand, had me singing the chorus for DAYS after hearing it. I KNOW that fucker's a winner!!!

Now may be a good time to offer a disclaimer listing ALL the Journey classics you hate with a passion. If you were this band's A&R man, over 70% of their catalog would have been trashed.

I have no problem defining my Journey likes and dislikes. I love the music on the first few Perry albums, but I simply can't listen to virtually anything he did vocally pre-1980. It's just a terribly high, shrill voice that makes me want to choke on my own dick and die. The Party's Over ushers in the first song where I'm gathering some masculinity in his voice. Escape shows him to have a tinge of grit in his voice, but he's also able to soar. Frontiers is the pinnacle of his voice and Edge Of The Blade, Separate Ways and Ask The Lonely showcase rock's greatest voice ever. He also belted out 2 of the greatest ballads ever in Faithfully and After The Fall. ROR shows the beginning of a failing voice, but are still some cool vocals on mostly terrible music. TBF is garbage, aside from 2-3 songs. The album shows a guy that simply can't rock anymore. I also dig the Journey albums prior to Perry. Good listening when you're just chilling. Augeri years were remarkably boring, with Kiss Me Softly and Remember Me being the only 2 great songs. I, unlike everyone else, think Higher Place sucks. Pineda is their best singer since Perry and is better than Perry was except for 1980-1986 (being generous giving him 1986!). Revelation was a cool album, but only slightly better than ROR. Waiting for Eclipse, anxiously!

[Don]

^^^^^^^^
That's why I like Captured. You get the older songs at a quicker tempo and you have Perry's vocals losing some of that airiness he had on the studio recordings as his voice starts to go into Escape mode.
And you get The Party's Over, the crossover song between the Rolie and Cain eras.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Chain Of Love, on the other hand, had me singing the chorus for DAYS after hearing it. I KNOW that fucker's a winner!!!

Now may be a good time to offer a disclaimer listing ALL the Journey classics you hate with a passion. If you were this band's A&R man, over 70% of their catalog would have been trashed.

I have no problem defining my Journey likes and dislikes. I love the music on the first few Perry albums, but I simply can't listen to virtually anything he did vocally pre-1980. It's just a terribly high, shrill voice that makes me want to choke on my own dick and die. The Party's Over ushers in the first song where I'm gathering some masculinity in his voice. Escape shows him to have a tinge of grit in his voice, but he's also able to soar. Frontiers is the pinnacle of his voice and Edge Of The Blade, Separate Ways and Ask The Lonely showcase rock's greatest voice ever. He also belted out 2 of the greatest ballads ever in Faithfully and After The Fall. ROR shows the beginning of a failing voice, but are still some cool vocals on mostly terrible music. TBF is garbage, aside from 2-3 songs. The album shows a guy that simply can't rock anymore. I also dig the Journey albums prior to Perry. Good listening when you're just chilling. Augeri years were remarkably boring, with Kiss Me Softly and Remember Me being the only 2 great songs. I, unlike everyone else, think Higher Place sucks. Pineda is their best singer since Perry and is better than Perry was except for 1980-1986 (being generous giving him 1986!). Revelation was a cool album, but only slightly better than ROR. Waiting for Eclipse, anxiously!

That was an interesting, but entirely unecessary long read. I'm just fucking around dude. Yea, the early Perry years have that shrill oil squeak quality to them. Higher Place remains one of their best songs ever - of any lineup.

[NoMoreTails]

I have no problem defining my Journey likes and dislikes. I love the music on the first few Perry albums, but I simply can't listen to virtually anything he did vocally pre-1980. It's just a terribly high, shrill voice that makes me want to choke on my own dick and die. The Party's Over ushers in the first song where I'm gathering some masculinity in his voice. Escape shows him to have a tinge of grit in his voice, but he's also able to soar. Frontiers is the pinnacle of his voice and Edge Of The Blade, Separate Ways and Ask The Lonely showcase rock's greatest voice ever. He also belted out 2 of the greatest ballads ever in Faithfully and After The Fall. ROR shows the beginning of a failing voice, but are still some cool vocals on mostly terrible music. TBF is garbage, aside from 2-3 songs. The album shows a guy that simply can't rock anymore. I also dig the Journey albums prior to Perry. Good listening when you're just chilling. Augeri years were remarkably boring, with Kiss Me Softly and Remember Me being the only 2 great songs. I, unlike everyone else, think Higher Place sucks. Pineda is their best singer since Perry and is better than Perry was except for 1980-1986 (being generous giving him 1986!). Revelation was a cool album, but only slightly better than ROR. Waiting for Eclipse, anxiously!

I too found early Perry too shrill, though his ability was unbelievable, it was almost grating at times. I started with Infinity and liked Gregg's vocals but Perry's took some getting used to....guess he finally hit puberty around the age of 30-32.

[Saint John]

I too found early Perry too shrill, though his ability was unbelievable

I'm glad you mentioned that because I don't want to leave the impression that, like you, I wasn't in absolute awe of his technical vocal skills. That era probably saw him do things that he couldn't have even thought about doing just a few years later, but it just wasn't my thing. But I do really like Lovin' You Is Easy. What a smokin' song!

[kgdjpubs]

I too found early Perry too shrill, though his ability was unbelievable

I'm glad you mentioned that because I don't want to leave the impression that, like you, I wasn't in absolute awe of his technical vocal skills. That era probably saw him do things that he couldn't have even thought about doing just a few years later, but it just wasn't my thing.

he had more range and clarity of voice in the early days. He became much better at vocal inflections and controlling his voice in the later days---which is another way of saying he was pretty raw in the first couple of albums.

[NoMoreTails]

I too found early Perry too shrill, though his ability was unbelievable

I'm glad you mentioned that because I don't want to leave the impression that, like you, I wasn't in absolute awe of his technical vocal skills. That era probably saw him do things that he couldn't have even thought about doing just a few years later, but it just wasn't my thing.

he had more range and clarity of voice in the early days. He became much better at vocal inflections and controlling his voice in the later days---which is another way of saying he was pretty raw in the first couple of albums.

I really agree with both of you, I should have used words like unbelievable but unnecessary vocal acrobatics, particularly live.