Why Journey needs Perry

[donnaplease]

Unless you're overweight and female, you realize this.

[Monker]

Well, some people were surprised, but it wasn't me.

Get over yourself, dude. You also claimed Revelation would flop and it sold big time. The wise old sage act is getting pretty stale. These days, you seem more vested in calling out Journey's incompetent business decisions than anything. Have you even heard Eclipse?

Revelation was aided by fuzzy math, Arnel's rags to riches, plokkerville, and Oprah....you can divide the Revelation's numbers by 3. Then the final number can be thanked to Arnel's story. Noone's(this word has always looked funny to me) wanting to be negative on purpose....we just have a differing opinion.

Dude, it sold big. If you can't accept that, it's you doing the fuzzy math, not Journey. Don posted all the real numbers just the other day. I suspect you may have seen it, and I'm too lazy to link it anyway. Some how I doubt it'd make a difference with you.

The fact is that the Revelation PACKAGE sold well. Revelation did not do it on its own. THAT is the point. We'll never know how well REvelation would have done on its own because it will never be sold and counted without the rerecords and DVD.

[Monker]

Holy fucking flame war. Looks like the old MR is back. If anyone is selling their tickets to any of this years show, lemme know, I'd gladly buy them AND their CD of ECLIPSE Fuckin love Journey but noone is as easy going as I am. I enjoy the fact that such an impressive band in this era of time is still making some pretty badass records.

Unless they do a free concert, or very cheap, I doubt I go. I think their shows right now are WAY over-hyped and over-priced.

[donnaplease]

Bottom line, Journey needs Perry so they can come full circle before the gig dries up. Perry needs Journey for the same reason.

One can wish...

[Monker]

Revelation was aided by fuzzy math, Arnel's rags to riches, plokkerville, and Oprah....you can divide the Revelation's numbers by 3.

So what? The forum's resident know-it-all, Monker, predicted that it would fail. He was wrong. Now he acts like he's got it all figured out.

Noone's (this word has always looked funny to me) wanting to be negative on purpose....we just have a differing opinion.

You obviously haven't been on this forum, (or part of online Journey fandom), very long. Of course, posters hate without legitimate reason. I'd bet that Monker hasn't even heard Eclipse. Same with Jrny10 and maybe even you.[/quote

What difference does it make if I have heard it? I'm not giving it a review, or commenting on specific songs (other then COH). I don't care what is on that CD, it was never going to sell the way people on this forum were thinking. Just ridiculous, over-hyped, crap that people were posting here. Now, it's ridiculous "it's all the marketing" that is all over this forum.

Get over it already. Journey is just no where near as popular as some want to believe. Well, at least not anything NEW by Journey.

[steveo777]

Revelation was aided by fuzzy math, Arnel's rags to riches, plokkerville, and Oprah....you can divide the Revelation's numbers by 3.

So what? The forum's resident know-it-all, Monker, predicted that it would fail. He was wrong. Now he acts like he's got it all figured out.

Noone's (this word has always looked funny to me) wanting to be negative on purpose....we just have a differing opinion.

You obviously haven't been on this forum, (or part of online Journey fandom), very long. Of course, posters hate without legitimate reason. I'd bet that Monker hasn't even heard Eclipse. Same with Jrny10 and maybe even you.[/quote

What difference does it make if I have heard it? I'm not giving it a review, or commenting on specific songs (other then COH). I don't care what is on that CD, it was never going to sell the way people on this forum were thinking. Just ridiculous, over-hyped, crap that people were posting here. Now, it's ridiculous "it's all the marketing" that is all over this forum.

Get over it already. Journey is just no where near as popular as some want to believe. Well, at least not anything NEW by Journey.

Journey is popular here on MR. This forum has the most action of any of them. All Journey's career album sales didn't come from MR folks, including
their last platinum album.

[Monker]

Bottom line, Journey needs Perry so they can come full circle before the gig dries up. Perry needs Journey for the same reason.

One can wish...

If Perry would have come back instead of hiring Arnel, I think it would have made sense and kept some credibility with the band. As it is right now, they are nothing but an 80's nostalgia band with a singer who can cover the old songs. Sure, they put out some new songs, but nobody REALLY cares but a few hundred fans on the Internet.

Bringing Perry back now doesn't make much sense to me. They already have a guy who can do a decent Perry imitation....and everybody knows it. So, why bring Perry back when he can't even sing as well as Arnel? Makes no sense, really. May as well keep the imitation going until the band ends in a few years.

[Monker]

Revelation was aided by fuzzy math, Arnel's rags to riches, plokkerville, and Oprah....you can divide the Revelation's numbers by 3.

So what? The forum's resident know-it-all, Monker, predicted that it would fail. He was wrong. Now he acts like he's got it all figured out.

Noone's (this word has always looked funny to me) wanting to be negative on purpose....we just have a differing opinion.

You obviously haven't been on this forum, (or part of online Journey fandom), very long. Of course, posters hate without legitimate reason. I'd bet that Monker hasn't even heard Eclipse. Same with Jrny10 and maybe even you.[/quote

What difference does it make if I have heard it? I'm not giving it a review, or commenting on specific songs (other then COH). I don't care what is on that CD, it was never going to sell the way people on this forum were thinking. Just ridiculous, over-hyped, crap that people were posting here. Now, it's ridiculous "it's all the marketing" that is all over this forum.

Get over it already. Journey is just no where near as popular as some want to believe. Well, at least not anything NEW by Journey.

Journey is popular here on MR. This forum has the most action of any of them. All Journey's career album sales didn't come from MR folks, including
their last platinum album.

Of course not, they come from people who want to hear DSB and the other GH songs...and they know Arnel does a decent Perry imitation, so why not get a new CD, hear Arnel do a new take on GH, and get a DVD too....sounds like a good deal for fans of the old Journey who are curious about Arnel.

[steveo777]

Bottom line, Journey needs Perry so they can come full circle before the gig dries up. Perry needs Journey for the same reason.

One can wish...

If Perry would have come back instead of hiring Arnel, I think it would have made sense and kept some credibility with the band. As it is right now, they are nothing but an 80's nostalgia band with a singer who can cover the old songs. Sure, they put out some new songs, but nobody REALLY cares but a few hundred fans on the Internet.

Bringing Perry back now doesn't make much sense to me. They already have a guy who can do a decent Perry imitation....and everybody knows it. So, why bring Perry back when he can't even sing as well as Arnel? Makes no sense, really. May as well keep the imitation going until the band ends in a few years.

Dude I laughed. You just criticized their latest album for basically deviating from the old Journey formula, away from the imitation, then you say they may as well keep the imitation going. Their last album was no imitation, but I guess you wanted it to be.

[Monker]

Bottom line, Journey needs Perry so they can come full circle before the gig dries up. Perry needs Journey for the same reason.

One can wish...

If Perry would have come back instead of hiring Arnel, I think it would have made sense and kept some credibility with the band. As it is right now, they are nothing but an 80's nostalgia band with a singer who can cover the old songs. Sure, they put out some new songs, but nobody REALLY cares but a few hundred fans on the Internet.

Bringing Perry back now doesn't make much sense to me. They already have a guy who can do a decent Perry imitation....and everybody knows it. So, why bring Perry back when he can't even sing as well as Arnel? Makes no sense, really. May as well keep the imitation going until the band ends in a few years.

Dude I laughed. You just criticized their latest album for basically deviating from the old Journey formula, away from the imitation, then you say they may as well keep the imitation going. Their last album was no imitation, but I guess you wanted it to be. [/quote

Arnel is a Perry imitator. Maybe not on Eclipse...don't know, don't care. But, on tour that is exactly what he is as he sings his few Journey tunes and then a dozen or classic tunes - that is what I meant. May as well keep the imitation of Perry going cuz Perry can't live up to it.

And, like it or not, that IS why Arnel was hired.

[Eric]

Dude I laughed. You just criticized their latest album for basically deviating from the old Journey formula, away from the imitation, then you say they may as well keep the imitation going. Their last album was no imitation, but I guess you wanted it to be.

Not even worth arguing with Monker. He hasn't been relevant in a decade. In fact, its damn hard to believe its the same person who was the Journey bible in the mid 90's. He hasn't even listened to the last albums but makes opinions. He said Revelation was a generic copy cat...and Eclipse deviates too far from Journey. Not only didn't he listen to either album but his analysis makes no sense. Which is it, Monker? Should they sound exactly like classic Journey or go in a new direction?

He's still bitter the medicore Chalfant didn't get the gig. Chalfant couldn't hold Arnel's jock. If you listen to "What I needed" or "Resonate" you'd know that this guy is the real deal. Chalfant couldn't begin to sing either of those songs, and Schon and Cain know it.

[Eric]

he sings his few Journey tunes

They did 4 and 6 new songs respectively the two times I saw them with Arnel. And what, 8, on the Manila DVD?

[YoungJRNY]

Holy Christ. Journey doesn't need Steve Perry & vice-versa. Journey has been touring and producing their music to the fanbase ALL over the world since Perry's departure and Perry collects a hefty check with every mile on the road everytime JRNY 's lineup takes to the road. Years ago people said that JRNY needs to move on from their nostalgic sound and become an updated, fresher sound to live in a new era. Now it's they went too far from dirty dozen material?

[Monker]

Dude I laughed. You just criticized their latest album for basically deviating from the old Journey formula, away from the imitation, then you say they may as well keep the imitation going. Their last album was no imitation, but I guess you wanted it to be.

Not even worth arguing with Monker. He hasn't been relevant in a decade. In fact, its damn hard to believe its the same person who was the Journey bible in the mid 90's. He hasn't even listened to the last albums but makes opinions. He said Revelation was a generic copy cat...and Eclipse deviates too far from Journey. Not only didn't he listen to either album but his analysis makes no sense. Which is it, Monker? Should they sound exactly like classic Journey or go in a new direction?

He's still bitter the medicore Chalfant didn't get the gig. Chalfant couldn't hold Arnel's jock. If you listen to "What I needed" or "Resonate" you'd know that this guy is the real deal. Chalfant couldn't begin to sing either of those songs, and Schon and Cain know it.

"Last albums?" I OWN the Revelation package and I give opinions based on listening to that.

I have NOT GIVEN AN OPINION ABOUT ECLIPSE. If I have, quote it. I did not say Eclipse deviates too far from Journey. I am repeating what is a very well known fact - that Neal took control of the direction of the writing on Eclipse and made it what he wanted. Even Jonathan said in the interview posted here said that this album was for Neal and his desire to create a rock album. That is not my opinion of the albums, that is a stated fact by those who recrorded the album.

But, you are right, in a way. You have a band that can only be popular by kissing the ass of the classic fans and emulating that sound...and will never equate that popularity by branching out to new music. So, they either release boring, nostalgic, mediocre crap that sells a bit, like Revelation...Or, they appease Neal and create a more interesting "Rock" album that does not sell to the fans. or Revelation. The band encouraged and put themselves in this position by hiring Arnel and promoting themselves as a band interested in emulating the legacy sound. They have cemented themselves as a nostalgia band - and IMO, the low sales of this CD prove it.

As for Chalfant, I think Journey made a mistake by going with the Perry reunion rather then the Chalfant/Rolie lineup. Journey goes for short term $'s and ignores the long term outlook...they should have seen where a Perry reunion would go. But, bitter? Nah, I was happy with the Augeri years. And, I'm glad Chalfant was not involved with the fiasco Journey became after Augeri.

[Monker]

he sings his few Journey tunes

They did 4 and 6 new songs respectively the two times I saw them with Arnel. And what, 8, on the Manila DVD?

They sang three when I saw them...and the last two I couldn't even listen to because the crowd was talking so loudly over them.

[Eric]

I have NOT GIVEN AN OPINION ABOUT ECLIPSE. If I have, quote it.

From the DISMAL SALES thread:


"Or, maybe, if he said that he would be full of shit and was really disappointed that his vision of what Journey should be is only shared by a few hundred internet fans and that nobody really cares to hear such a radical departure of what Journey has been for 30yrs."

If you haven't listened to it, how can you say it's a radical departure? Listen to it first.

[steveo777]

I have NOT GIVEN AN OPINION ABOUT ECLIPSE. If I have, quote it.

From the DISMAL SALES thread:


"Or, maybe, if he said that he would be full of shit and was really disappointed that his vision of what Journey should be is only shared by a few hundred internet fans and that nobody really cares to hear such a radical departure of what Journey has been for 30yrs."

If you haven't listened to it, how can you say it's a radical departure? Listen to it first.

He's wearing a musical chastity belt called a "hate lock".
It's a five inch problem....the five inches between his ears.

[RedWingFan]

I have NOT GIVEN AN OPINION ABOUT ECLIPSE. If I have, quote it.

From the DISMAL SALES thread:


"Or, maybe, if he said that he would be full of shit and was really disappointed that his vision of what Journey should be is only shared by a few hundred internet fans and that nobody really cares to hear such a radical departure of what Journey has been for 30yrs."

If you haven't listened to it, how can you say it's a radical departure? Listen to it first.

Andrew's preview clips he posted maybe? That's how I found out I'd wait to buy a used copy for $2 to listen to it.

[Eric]

he sings his few Journey tunes

They did 4 and 6 new songs respectively the two times I saw them with Arnel. And what, 8, on the Manila DVD?

They sang three when I saw them...and the last two I couldn't even listen to because the crowd was talking so loudly over them.

There are only two times I've heard a classic rock/arena rock get decent attention to new songs played live. Styx on the Main Event tour with Cyclorama and Journey for the Manila show.

[Eric]

Andrew's preview clips he posted maybe? That's how I found out I'd wait to buy a used copy for $2 to listen to it.

The preview clips do no justice to these songs. They are long songs with lots of twists and turns. She's a Mystery has to be listened to in its entirety, for example.

[RedWingFan]

Andrew's preview clips he posted maybe? That's how I found out I'd wait to buy a used copy for $2 to listen to it.

The preview clips do no justice to these songs. They are long songs with lots of twists and turns. She's a Mystery has to be listened to in its entirety, for example.

It was still enough for me and probably Monker to realize that it is a "radical departure" for Journey music. That was your question wasn't it?

[Eric]

Andrew's preview clips he posted maybe? That's how I found out I'd wait to buy a used copy for $2 to listen to it.

The preview clips do no justice to these songs. They are long songs with lots of twists and turns. She's a Mystery has to be listened to in its entirety, for example.

It was still enough for me and probably Monker to realize that it is a "radical departure" for Journey music. That was your question wasn't it?

I guess I don't see how its a radical departure at all, actually? I'm willing to listen to why you think so. Most Journey albums are a departure as is the nature of the band, but radical...naw. The twists and turns is sure different, but the sound while they are doing that is all Journey.

[Michigan Girl]

I don't think there would be any of this 'separate forum' prattle if Eclipse was selling like hot cakes. Some folk have a little bit too much emotional investment in this band.

And Perry. Revelation's success and the reaction from the the Loon faction is incontrovertible proof that you have those who are "too emotionally invested" (i.e. deranged) on both sides.

Oh, I whole heartedly agree. The difference being there was only one forum back then so everyone had to take their medicine together.

Bring em back together and let the most active singer win. Hell, how active is the SP forum anyway? It might add 10 threads a month to this forum.
Nah, we really need to stop battling each other. Its not a war. I think everyone here loves Steve Perry for what he contributed, which was most of
the bands best years. Expectations on both sides of the fence are too high at this point. Arnel is never gonna bring this band back to it's glory days
and neither is Steve. I'm a guy willing to just let it all go, let bygones be bygones and move forward. I'm glad there is still a Journey and I feel that
Arnel represents the band as well as anyone could at this point.

Steve doesn't have the voice to bring Journey back to the glory days, he would be good for one big concert but that's about it.

Most sane people know this, so why do we argue about it? I know you're not, but still....why?

Loons, they're like the neighborhood dog that barks all night. It's only one dog but that's all everybody hears.

And if you listen real close, the next sound you'll hear is a pinhead drop!!

[steveo777]

I don't think there would be any of this 'separate forum' prattle if Eclipse was selling like hot cakes. Some folk have a little bit too much emotional investment in this band.

And Perry. Revelation's success and the reaction from the the Loon faction is incontrovertible proof that you have those who are "too emotionally invested" (i.e. deranged) on both sides.

Oh, I whole heartedly agree. The difference being there was only one forum back then so everyone had to take their medicine together.

Bring em back together and let the most active singer win. Hell, how active is the SP forum anyway? It might add 10 threads a month to this forum.
Nah, we really need to stop battling each other. Its not a war. I think everyone here loves Steve Perry for what he contributed, which was most of
the bands best years. Expectations on both sides of the fence are too high at this point. Arnel is never gonna bring this band back to it's glory days
and neither is Steve. I'm a guy willing to just let it all go, let bygones be bygones and move forward. I'm glad there is still a Journey and I feel that
Arnel represents the band as well as anyone could at this point.

Steve doesn't have the voice to bring Journey back to the glory days, he would be good for one big concert but that's about it.

Most sane people know this, so why do we argue about it? I know you're not, but still....why?

Loons, they're like the neighborhood dog that barks all night. It's only one dog but that's all everybody hears.

And if you listen real close, the next sound you'll hear is a pinhead drop!!

Is that what that was? I thought you farted.

[Monker]

I have NOT GIVEN AN OPINION ABOUT ECLIPSE. If I have, quote it.

From the DISMAL SALES thread:


"Or, maybe, if he said that he would be full of shit and was really disappointed that his vision of what Journey should be is only shared by a few hundred internet fans and that nobody really cares to hear such a radical departure of what Journey has been for 30yrs."

If you haven't listened to it, how can you say it's a radical departure? Listen to it first.

Geez, it is a known FACT that Eclipse was written as a 'rock album' for Neal. Jonathan has said that in his interviews, and so has Neal. THAT is where it comes from. I don't have to listen to it to know this isn't going to be like Escape where half the album was slowish, piano, ballady type songs.

[The_Noble_Cause]

What difference does it make if I have heard it?

Because you now post simply to bash - just like the Perry fanatics you used to make short work of. It's total posting hackery. If the band's musical output has no bearing on your opinion, what's the point?

[Monker]

I have NOT GIVEN AN OPINION ABOUT ECLIPSE. If I have, quote it.

From the DISMAL SALES thread:


"Or, maybe, if he said that he would be full of shit and was really disappointed that his vision of what Journey should be is only shared by a few hundred internet fans and that nobody really cares to hear such a radical departure of what Journey has been for 30yrs."

If you haven't listened to it, how can you say it's a radical departure? Listen to it first.

Andrew's preview clips he posted maybe? That's how I found out I'd wait to buy a used copy for $2 to listen to it.

I listened to some...but honestly, they all sorta sound the same. They all sorta have the same tone of music, but with different lyrics...kinda like the last Bad English. The YouTube's and clips just bored me.

[Monker]

Andrew's preview clips he posted maybe? That's how I found out I'd wait to buy a used copy for $2 to listen to it.

The preview clips do no justice to these songs. They are long songs with lots of twists and turns. She's a Mystery has to be listened to in its entirety, for example.

It was still enough for me and probably Monker to realize that it is a "radical departure" for Journey music. That was your question wasn't it?

That is true too...But, it is more a reflection of what the band (Neal and Jon) have been saying.

[Monker]

What difference does it make if I have heard it?

Because you now post simply to bash - just like the Perry fanatics you used to make short work of. It's total posting hackery. If the band's musical output has no bearing on your opinion, what's the point?

When I finally listen to Eclipse, I'll post that perspective. The only things I have said specifically about Eclipse are that what I have heard sounds better then Revelation...which IS positive, and that the clips all sound the same and bore me. It was definitely not enough to make me at all excited about owning this album.

The bottom line is this album was WAY over-hyped by SJ and his clan of followers. That's been obvious to me for months now. .

[S2M]

There is NOTHING on Eclipse that rocks as much as the outro to Edge of the Blade.....quit fooling yourselves.