Sammy Hagar's Opinion Is.....

[The_Noble_Cause]

The thing I liked about JSS compared to Augeri is if the music weren't so loud, you might be able to fall asleep watching a Steve Augeri Journey led performance

Augeri's on-stage antics lessened with age.
The few times I saw him in 2002 he was all over the stage!
Banging on cymbals, jumping on/off speakers...etc.
Steve had finally found his groove! (or so I thought)
Every tour afterwards he seemed more and more withdrawn.
I wonder if his confidence decreased as his voice became more and more kaput.

[AR]

Augeri's on-stage antics lessened with age.
The few times I saw him in 2002 he was all over the stage!
Banging on cymbals, jumping on/off speakers...etc.
Steve had finally found his groove! (or so I thought)
Every tour afterwards he seemed more and more withdrawn.
I wonder if his confidence decreased as his voice became more and more kaput.

Could be.

I thought Augeri was still pretty confident through the Classic Rock Main Event Tour. After that, your point is well taken TNC.

[Monker]

Monker - back to the Styx forum with you...

What specificaly is this supposed to mean? Are you threatening to 'give me a vacation' for speaking my mind?

[Moon Beam]

OMG Monker chill your ass out!
Think he was making a joke.
I know you have a sence of humor
why don't you log off and go find it?

[Distant Voice]

Monker - back to the Styx forum with you...

What specificaly is this supposed to mean? Are you threatening to 'give me a vacation' for speaking my mind?

You are grounded from the Journey board, now go stand in the corner like a good little girl.

[Monker]

The Schon/Soto collaboration "Believe in Me" sounded pretty Journey-esque.
In fact, some wondered why Neal didn't reserve it for "Generations".
I think with some tinkering many SS songs could be Journey songs.
After all, Neal wrote the music for "Out of Harm's Way" and "Faith in the Heartland" initially for PlanetUS/Sirkus.

Both "Believe In Me" and "Coming Home" sound "Journeyesque"...But, they still had a LONG way to go to be Journey. They sound less like Journey then either Storm album for example.

[Monker]

Jeff has LOVED Journey forever....why would he (if given the chance) want to change their style/formula/winning ways?

Because Journey isn't his nature. Sammy praised Journey in your interview..But, his music doesn't sound like Journey either - because it's not his nature.

[Monker]

OMG Monker chill your ass out!
Think he was making a joke.
I know you have a sence of humor
why don't you log off and go find it?

Then let ANDREW explain. This is the SECOND time he has said that to me. It sounds more like a warning then anything else.

[Andrew]

Monker - back to the Styx forum with you...

What specificaly is this supposed to mean? Are you threatening to 'give me a vacation' for speaking my mind?

Not at all....merely suggesting that you go back to a place where you will be happier and less cynical. If that's possible at all.

[Andrew]

Both "Believe In Me" and "Coming Home" sound "Journeyesque"...But, they still had a LONG way to go to be Journey. They sound less like Journey then either Storm album for example.

RubBISH! THEY ARE mor Journey than some Generations tracks.

[Monker]

Monker - back to the Styx forum with you...

What specificaly is this supposed to mean? Are you threatening to 'give me a vacation' for speaking my mind?

Not at all....merely suggesting that you go back to a place where you will be happier and less cynical. If that's possible at all.

Well, as froy pointed out, the Styx forum is dead. If there was actualy conversation there, I would post there. The Styx forum has its own personality problems to deal with. Everytime somebody brings something to talk about to the forum, it is stomped out. So, why bring anything at all? All sides do that. Until that attitude changes, the forum will be as it is.

The same goes with this forum...until people can accept that not everybody is going to agree with them, and that doesn't mean that they are a worthless piece of shit that needs to accept their perceived authority or leave, then this forum will be as it is.

[Andrew]

The same goes with this forum...until people can accept that not everybody is going to agree with them, and that doesn't mean that they are a worthless piece of shit that needs to accept their perceived authority or leave, then this forum will be as it is.

Are you not imposing your views with some considerable force? You sure don't give much leeway.

[fred_journeyman]

Jeff has LOVED Journey forever....why would he (if given the chance) want to change their style/formula/winning ways?

Sure, they can update their sound a little, add a few new tricks, but the soul and essence of Journey will never be messed with - not by Jeff or anyone else in the band.

I don't doubt Jeff's love for Journey, nor do I doubt his ability as a singer and songwriter. While singing the current catalog, it's difficult to go seriously astray. I can't imagine myself seeing them again until they produce new music and begin playing it in concert.

The long run remains to be seen, Andrew. I'm willing to give them a fighting chance (not that my willingness to give them a chance should matter to them) and if they DO produce new music, we can all decide for ourselves if it's truly Journey-esque.

If they either do NOT:
1) Produce any new music at all...or
2) Stray stylistically from the Journey "sound" with any new music they DO produce...

...then I honestly think they should put Journey to bed (unless Perry returns, but then I would also want Smith in there as well). If they DO produce new music and it doesn't remind me of Journey, they will undoubtedly still continue touring. In fact, if they do NOT produce new music, I think they'll still continue touring.

[bionic]

Jeff has LOVED Journey forever....why would he (if given the chance) want to change their style/formula/winning ways?

Sure, they can update their sound a little, add a few new tricks, but the soul and essence of Journey will never be messed with - not by Jeff or anyone else in the band.

I don't doubt Jeff's love for Journey, nor do I doubt his ability as a singer and songwriter. While singing the current catalog, it's difficult to go seriously astray. I can't imagine myself seeing them again until they produce new music and begin playing it in concert.

The long run remains to be seen, Andrew. I'm willing to give them a fighting chance (not that my willingness to give them a chance should matter to them) and if they DO produce new music, we can all decide for ourselves if it's truly Journey-esque.

If they either do NOT:
1) Produce any new music at all...or
2) Stray stylistically from the Journey "sound" with any new music they DO produce...

...then I honestly think they should put Journey to bed (unless Perry returns, but then I would also want Smith in there as well). If they DO produce new music and it doesn't remind me of Journey, they will undoubtedly still continue touring. In fact, if they do NOT produce new music, I think they'll still continue touring.

You know i really felt that on the 30th Aniv tour that he band were at there best and the ghost of Perry was put to rest,they could have let Steve go at the end and Jeff could have come in and all would have been well. Instead they took a gamble and it blew up in there face,lets hope thst Jeff can move them forward,as with all the tape saga, people are again saying bring back Perry.The band have a lot of ground to recover i hope they can do it

[Calbear94]

Both "Believe In Me" and "Coming Home" sound "Journeyesque"...But, they still had a LONG way to go to be Journey. They sound less like Journey then either Storm album for example.

RubBISH! THEY ARE mor Journey than some Generations tracks.

There are several Generations tracks that don't sound anything remotely like Journey. Bad comparison there. JSS-Schon, Soul Sirkus, JSS-Journey....the lines are so blurred these days. The band has big decisions ahead after this tour.

[McNeil]

Monker - back to the Styx forum with you...

What specificaly is this supposed to mean? Are you threatening to 'give me a vacation' for speaking my mind?

Not at all....merely suggesting that you go back to a place where you will be happier and less cynical. If that's possible at all.

I actually enjoy reading Monkers stuff..... it provided some kinda balance here, to what has fast become. an Augeri-bashing, Perry-Lamenting, Soto-Worshipping , forum. ... I only see Monker as being the equivelant of, say Deano.... both wont give an inch to others opinions, and are passionate about their views. only difference is..Monker has maintained the same view of Augeri. whilst Deano has totally reversed his opinion about Soto..summat to do with the promise of "mutual" BJ's back-stage or something.... haha well..I suppose it could turn a man's head

[Matthew]

Jeff has LOVED Journey forever....why would he (if given the chance) want to change their style/formula/winning ways?

Sure, they can update their sound a little, add a few new tricks, but the soul and essence of Journey will never be messed with - not by Jeff or anyone else in the band.

If they either do NOT:
1) Produce any new music at all...or
2) Stray stylistically from the Journey "sound" with any new music they DO produce...

...then I honestly think they should put Journey to bed (unless Perry returns, but then I would also want Smith in there as well).

As TNC pointed out earlier, the JSS track "Believe In Me" does offer some reassurance to any fan who is worried about the new singer changing 'the Journey sound' . To me it sounds more like Journey than many Augeri era tracks do - and it's a much stronger song than anything Journey themselves have recorded since Perry left...with the exception of "A Better Life".

I'm not worried about Journey changing beyond recognition. There'll be some change - but I'd welcome any move that showed that Journey were evolving rather than just rehashing their past.

The concern - for me any way - is that Journey have possibly left it too late....that the loss of a successful recording career and their A-list status in the industry since 1998 has left them with too hard a challenge now...that Journey and their management have become too complacent to bring about a serious creative/commercial revival.

So it could be argued that JSS is the least of our worries. He'll definitely bring in new energy and ideas - but what about the people who are now surrounding him? Do they have the appetite and imagination to turn things around?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Both "Believe In Me" and "Coming Home" sound "Journeyesque"...But, they still had a LONG way to go to be Journey.

Is Journey defined solely by its androgynous high pitched leads?
Jeff is a little different from what's come before, but perhaps that's a good thing.

They sound less like Journey then either Storm album for example.

That's because Chalfant has more shrill of a voice. No matter. Perry wasn't exactly shattering glass on TBF and it still sound like Journey (for the most part).

[Eric]

Believe in me is Journey through and through. Release that as a Journey single this summer while the tour is still taking place....

[The_Noble_Cause]

As TNC pointed out earlier, the JSS track "Believe In Me" does offer some reassurance to any fan who is worried about the new singer changing 'the Journey sound' . To me it sounds more like Journey than many Augeri era tracks do -

I dunno about that. Studio-wise Augeri always sounded something of a Perry-dopleganger. Differences existed if you listened carefully enough.

and it's a much stronger song than anything Journey themselves have recorded since Perry left...with the exception of "A Better Life".

C'mon, isn't "Believe in Me" just yet another cliched summertime feel-good toe tapper in the same vein as "To Be Alive Again"?
If JSS ever puts out a Journey album I expect something a little more progressive than this.
Good song though, but lets not get crazy here.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Believe in me is Journey through and through. Release that as a Journey single this summer while the tour is still taking place....

I doubt it would even chart, but I like the idea.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You know i really felt that on the 30th Aniv tour that he band were at there best and the ghost of Perry was put to rest,they could have let Steve go at the end and Jeff could have come in and all would have been well.

I think some here (Jeremy, maybe?) predicted that the 30th anniversary tour was actually gonna mark the retirement of the current era.
One last hurrah.

[Deb]

Jeff has LOVED Journey forever....why would he (if given the chance) want to change their style/formula/winning ways?

Sure, they can update their sound a little, add a few new tricks, but the soul and essence of Journey will never be messed with - not by Jeff or anyone else in the band.

...then I honestly think they should put Journey to bed (unless Perry returns, but then I would also want Smith in there as well).

LOL, I'd be willing to give up Smitty for Deeno.

[Matthew]

As TNC pointed out earlier, the JSS track "Believe In Me" does offer some reassurance to any fan who is worried about the new singer changing 'the Journey sound' . To me it sounds more like Journey than many Augeri era tracks do -

I dunno about that. Studio-wise Augeri always sounded something of a Perry-dopleganger. Differences existed if you listened carefully enough.

and it's a much stronger song than anything Journey themselves have recorded since Perry left...with the exception of "A Better Life".

C'mon, isn't "Believe in Me" just yet another cliched summertime feel-good toe tapper in the same vein as "To Be Alive Again"?
If JSS ever puts out a Journey album I expect something a little more progressive than this.
Good song though, but lets not get crazy here.

Okay - maybe I was over-stating the case. But Journey's recordings with Augeri remind me of second-division 80s AOR in general rather than Journey specifically. Even though Augeri was trying to receate the sound of Perry's voice, he brought none of the soul or passion or energy or 'uplift' which I associate with classic Journey. Whereas JSS's vocals on "Believe In Me" has these qualities and - combined with Neal's solo on this track - the 'feel' of this song was more 'Journeyesque' than many of the bloodless tracks on "Arrival".

Is it a "cliched, summer-time, feel-good toe-tapper"? Yes - but I guess the appeal - for me anyway - is that this song actually did make me feel good in a way that "Arrival" and "Generations" never did. I agree that Journey need to record some songs which are more progressive than this one - but at least it doesn't sound tired and cynical - and I guess this alone is reason for some optimism.

[Marc S]

Why all the navel-gazing?

From where I'm sitting, Augeri was hired to imitate Perry, and in fairness, as Perry has (had?) a very distinctive voice, Augeri pulled the mimic off quite successfully. If you imagine the talent pool that was available in 97/98 they could have taken a small risk and still got an A list lead vocalist, even god forbid, JSS.

Neal & Jon basically fucked up then, by taking the low risk karaoke option. I can't see why Arrival is so bad as an album; there is plenty of soul and great singing amongst the tracks, it just that you are listening to him with Perry in mind; you will never be able to do that and give the guy a decent shot. I heard Arrival for a few minutes by chance in 2000 on UK rock radio, instantly thought it was Perry, tracked the CD down and still found it acceptable as they didn't seem to be hiding what they were doing in hiring Augeri.

I don't think it was a 2nd rate 80's AOR album. You could aim that at ROR and most certainly at Generations as its a mish mash of singers and weak songs.

Sounds like, generally, JSS is good news for Journey. Might just be the kick up the arse they need to revitalise their writing.

Check out the songs Cain, Schon (Randy Jackson) and Aussie mega voaclist Jimmy Barnes wrote and played on for Barnes's 1987 masterpiece 'Freight Train Heart' if you want to see where Journey might have gone before Bad English turned up...?

[Matthew]

Why all the navel-gazing?

From where I'm sitting, Augeri was hired to imitate Perry, and in fairness, as Perry has (had?) a very distinctive voice, Augeri pulled the mimic off quite successfully. If you imagine the talent pool that was available in 97/98 they could have taken a small risk and still got an A list lead vocalist, even god forbid, JSS.

Neal & Jon basically fucked up then, by taking the low risk karaoke option. I can't see why Arrival is so bad as an album; there is plenty of soul and great singing amongst the tracks, it just that you are listening to him with Perry in mind; you will never be able to do that and give the guy a decent shot. I heard Arrival for a few minutes by chance in 2000 on UK rock radio, instantly thought it was Perry, tracked the CD down and still found it acceptable as they didn't seem to be hiding what they were doing in hiring Augeri.

I don't think it was a 2nd rate 80's AOR album. You could aim that at ROR and most certainly at Generations as its a mish mash of singers and weak songs.

Sounds like, generally, JSS is good news for Journey. Might just be the kick up the arse they need to revitalise their writing.

Check out the songs Cain, Schon (Randy Jackson) and Aussie mega voaclist Jimmy Barnes wrote and played on for Barnes's 1987 masterpiece 'Freight Train Heart' if you want to see where Journey might have gone before Bad English turned up...?

Why all the navel-gazing? Well, this is a discussion forum about Journey. Is there something else we ought to be talking about?

I'm a bit confused by your post. You rightly say: "If you imagine the talent pool that was available in 97/98 they could have taken a small risk and still got an A list lead vocalist, even god forbid, JSS. Neal & Jon basically fucked up then, by taking the low risk karaoke option."

But then you argue that "Arrival" is a first-rate album with soul and great singing. So do you think they didn't fuck up after all?

I haven't heard the Jimmy Barnes album - sounds great - thanks for tip.

[Marc S]

I take your point. I guess what I meant was that the current 'fuck up' with tapegate can be traced back to the decision to employ a soundalike rather than risk an original vocalist and have a 'new' sound for Journey. The problem was always going to be their back catalogue. Frankly, what choice did they have than to hire someone like Augeri, who could pull it off to a degree. Schon and Cain probably thought it best not to antagonise the faithful and go for (quality) Karaoke?

To your other point - I do think, taken out of context, Arrival is a creditable album. In fairness, Augeri sings well; if you had come across that album thumbing through the CD racks what would your response be...?

I'd really like to know what you make of the Jimmy Barnes album (Freight Train Heart) if you can track it down. It really has a much harder edge. A few of the tracks were co-written with Jim Vallance (Brian Adams) and Dennis Childs (no intro necessary)

Lastly, I just downloaded a boot of JSS singing with Journey. He does a remarkable job of the old stuff, hope its a sign of good things to come eh?

[Lora]

Check out the songs Cain, Schon (Randy Jackson) and Aussie mega voaclist Jimmy Barnes wrote and played on for Barnes's 1987 masterpiece 'Freight Train Heart' if you want to see where Journey might have gone before Bad English turned up...?

omg - Freight Train Heart is an absolutely fantastic CD and one of my all time favorites. "Too Much Ain't Enough Love" can still make me cry. That CD turned me into a Jimmy Barnes fan and I acquired several of his other releases. Got to meet him once when he was here in the Bay Area rehearsing with Jon & Neal. Just regret that I was never able to see him live.

[Monker]

Is Journey defined solely by its androgynous high pitched leads?
Jeff is a little different from what's come before, but perhaps that's a good thing.

No, it's the entirety of the band. Journey has been moving away from their own sound from the time of Red 13. If JSS is in, there is no reason for not to believe the will move even further away.

That's because Chalfant has more shrill of a voice.

No...it's because Gregg and Kevin wrote songs together that sound more like Journey then the real thing. I don't believe for one moment that Neal, JSS, and Jonathan are going to sound MORE like Journey then Neal, Augeri, Jonathan.

No matter. Perry wasn't exactly shattering glass on TBF and it still sound like Journey (for the most part).

As I've said, it sounds like "Beyond the Thunder" with vocals...it has moments, but for the most part it is "blah" compared to other Journey albums.

[Monker]

Believe in me is Journey through and through. Release that as a Journey single this summer while the tour is still taking place....

Won't happen...I doubt they will release ANY single to radio.