OT: SADDAM IS DEAD

[NealIsGod]

I wish I could, whatever their party affiliation. Then there might actually be real hope for a solution to the mess this country is in.

'Mornin' NIG, had your coffee yet?

Oh, had 3 cups hours ago. Moved on to beer and football...

Happy NY Eve, Sherrie. Hope a great year is ahead for you.

[Rockindeano]

Geez, after reading the last 5 responses, this thread has turned dangerously gay. Are we going to call it MRJourneys?

I need to go vomit.

Oh, and Frye, one mention for you.

Fuck Steve Augeri. He deserves what he gets.

[ohsherrie]

I wish I could, whatever their party affiliation. Then there might actually be real hope for a solution to the mess this country is in.

'Mornin' NIG, had your coffee yet?

Oh, had 3 cups hours ago. Moved on to beer and football...

Happy NY Eve, Sherrie. Hope a great year is ahead for you.

Yeah, I've finished with the coffee, I didn't realize it had gotten this late. It's a little early for me to go to beer though. I'll wait for the rum and Diet Coke later this evening.

Same good wishes to you NIG.

[NealIsGod]

Geez, after reading the last 5 responses, this thread has turned dangerously gay. Are we going to call it MRJourneys?

I need to go vomit.

Oh, and Frye, one mention for you.

Fuck Steve Augeri. He deserves what he gets.

Hey, there shitpile. What do you and Lula have planned for 2nite?

[Rockindeano]

Hey, there shitpile. What do you and Lula have planned for 2nite?

I will be kissing two pairs of lips at midnight.

I am going to fuck her brains out. In fact, I am going to fuck so much, my cock is going to turn blue.

[NealIsGod]

In fact, I am going to fuck so much, my cock is going to turn blue.

You're gonna bang a smurf?

[donnaplease]

Well, now THAT's an improvement over those 'previous 5 responses', huh Deano???

It's so nice to hear to talk so sweetly about Lula...

[ohsherrie]

In fact, I am going to fuck so much, my cock is going to turn blue.

You're gonna bang a smurf?

Well, now THAT's an improvement over those 'previous 5 responses', huh Deano???

It's so nice to hear to talk so sweetly about Lula...

Yeah, ain't he a sweettalker?

[Barb]

think BIG PICTURE, not just Iraq.

Gee, that sounds great, unfortunately, this well-orchestrated continent-spanning anti-terrorist schema resides STRICTLY in your imagination.

We are bogged down in Iraq while the true megalomaniacs of the world (N. Korea, Iran) are building up a doomsday arsenal that would make Dr. Evil turn positively green with envy.

Get real.

At least you have the sense to acknowledge that Iran is a threat. Kind of convenient that 140,000 US troops are parked over there, don't you think? Like I said, NC -- BIG PICTURE.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You're one of the many people who reacted as if SA committed murder by lip-synching.

EVERY self-respecting fan should've been seeing red and choking up bile.
Neal is a guitar-playing wunderkind, but let's face it, Journey's catalog has always been vocally intensive.
You simply cannot subtract the human voice from the equation and NOT expect to reap hell from hard working fans.

You joined the crusade to be judge, jury, and executioner to expose and remove him from his throne.

Out of respect to SA and the extended NOMOTA clan, I kept my silence for quite some time.
My colleague, on the other hand, was, shall we say, a little more pro-active.
Initially, I thought the band could sort out their own mess.
However, the lipped UK tour did little to qwell my fears.
When I got word of the plan to lip thru the Def tour, it became obvious that change could only be brought about from the ground up.

Deano did the right thing and every Journey fan owes him a tremendous debt of gratitude.

You've got SA's "blood" all over your body. You've rubbed it in - deeply - sensually massaging your every fiber of being.

That’s right.
Blame Deano, blame me - blame everyone under the sun except for the very man whom the BAND fired and deemed insufficient to front any longer.

Here we have Saddam who has TRULY committed murder and your worried about his blood...?

I'm not concerned with his blood, I'm concerned with legality and an unprecedented, unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country.

[conversationpc]

I'm not concerned with his blood, I'm concerned with legality and an unprecedented, unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country.

Unprecedented? I guess Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 doesn't count?

[Barb]

I'm not concerned with his blood, I'm concerned with legality and an unprecedented, unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country.

Unprecedented? I guess Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 doesn't count?

Wrong Dave, Bush and the US are the only true evildoers.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Unprecedented? I guess Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 doesn't count?

Tell me, if that's such an airtight, waterproof rationale for war, why didn't Bush try to sell it that way when drumming up public support for this latest Iraq folly?
The spectre of the Gulf War could not be relied upon to singlehandedly ensnare the sleep-walking masses into war.

No soldier would be willing to give his/her life so Bush jr. can settle old scores. Nor should they.

[conversationpc]

Tell me, if that's such an airtight, waterproof rationale for war, why didn't Bush try to sell it that way when drumming up public support for this latest Iraq folly?
The spectre of the Gulf War could not be relied upon to singlehandedly ensnare the sleep-walking masses into war.

No soldier would be willing to give his/her life so Bush jr. can settle old scores. Nor should they.

When did I say it was a rationale for war. Just countering your head-up-the-ass point.

[conversationpc]

I'm not concerned with his blood, I'm concerned with legality and an unprecedented, unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country.

Unprecedented? I guess Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 doesn't count?

Wrong Dave, Bush and the US are the only true evildoers.

Yes, plus we are just evil conservatives.

[ohsherrie]

I would lay odds that my voting record is much more open-minded than yours and most other Democrats.

You'd lose that bet. I didn't become staunchly Demorcratic until Bush. In fact, I may very well have voted for McCain instead of Gore if he'd won the Rep nomination. When McCain said he never had a chance of winning the nomination because Bush had all the money tied up well before the race even began I knew Bush was dirty. Of course I wouldn't vote for McCain now because he became just another Bush yes man after Bush won. He seemed to forget all the problems he saw in Bush before.

Republican voters no more vote for their candidates because someone told them so that Democrats do. One could also say somethiing like, "Teachers only vote for democrats because their unions told them to" or "Inner city welfare recipients only vote Democrat because they're scared the evil conservatives are going to take their money away".

You can't really believe that, then again, maybe you can. The strongest voting base the Republicans have are the Evangelicals and the NRA members. The Democrats have nothing that can compare with the zealous, activism and lobbying of those two groups. The reason they're so strong is because they're very well funded and permeate every aspect of our society on some level. That's also what makes them so dangerous to a truly democratic philosophy of government. They don't actually represent the majority, they just have more power than the any other lobbying group.

[Rockindeano]

Unbelievable stupidity. You GOP ers

Iraq was invaded, because it was suppose to be an easy cakewalk. They created a reason to go in. Afghanistan was a much tougher job, and it's being proven daily with no bin Laden in handcuffs.

[conversationpc]

You can't really believe that, then again, maybe you can. The strongest voting base the Republicans have are the Evangelicals and the NRA members. The Democrats have nothing that can compare with the zealous, activism and lobbying of those two groups. The reason they're so strong is because they're very well funded and permeate every aspect of our society on some level. That's also what makes them so dangerous to a truly democratic philosophy of government. They don't actually represent the majority, they just have more power than the any other lobbying group.

That's utterly ridiculous. Inner city churches and their pastors are just as zealous, if not more so, than their conservative counterparts. That you can't see that is just an indication of your blind following of what the Democrats are telling you about conservative voters. Why do you think Democratic candidates so often campaign at some of these inner city churches? They throw a fit when a conservative candidate shows up at an Evangelical university, school, or church, but the media pretty much turns a blind eye whenever a liberal candidate does the same.

The most powerful lobbying group are not evangelicals but teachers unions. No one dares say anything negative about them, even Republicans for that matter, but liberals are especially beholden of them. The trial lawyers, evangelicals, and NRA aren't far behind.

[conversationpc]

Unbelievable stupidity. You GOP ers

Unbelievable stupidity? You're one that has pushed those ridiculous 9-11 conspiracy theories. Now THAT is stupid.

[Jeremey fan forever]

How many people in the world died the same day as Sadam. Millions? Who gives a fuck about him. I'd weep for any one of the other millions who died, but I'll never give a damn if someone like Sadam dies. As you were, you lamo politickers.

[Rockindeano]

Unbelievable stupidity. You GOP ers

Unbelievable stupidity? You're one that has pushed those ridiculous 9-11 conspiracy theories. Now THAT is stupid.

No, I didn't "push" 9/11 theories. I simply said you might want to watch it with an open mind. There is just too much there to say "nothing" went on mischieveously.

[larryfromnextdoor]

[ohsherrie]

That's utterly ridiculous. Inner city churches and their pastors are just as zealous, if not more so, than their conservative counterparts. That you can't see that is just an indication of your blind following of what the Democrats are telling you about conservative voters.

I'm mot blind to anything. I don't listen to what people are telling me. I listen to what is really being said.

Why do you think Democratic candidates so often campaign at some of these inner city churches? They throw a fit when a conservative candidate shows up at an Evangelical university, school, or church, but the media pretty much turns a blind eye whenever a liberal candidate does the same.

The reason the media shows up for the Republican appearances at Evangelical related functions is because they so painfully, obviously have the inside track to policy in a Republican administration. A Democratic candidate showing up at a church related political function is the equivalent of a Republican candidate attending a labor union function. It's just a meet & greet.

The most powerful lobbying group are not evangelicals but teachers unions. No one dares say anything negative about them, even Republicans for that matter, but liberals are especially beholden of them. The trial lawyers, evangelicals, and NRA aren't far behind.

Are you saying you think the needs of education are less important that the needs of the extremely wealthy Evangelical churches? Before you answer that keep in mind that Jerry Falwell has been a thorn in my side since the 70s when he was sending revamped school busses past my house to recruit people from the neighborhood churches in order to fill his. I have also had personal experience with him going to the local hospitals to visit dying patients and convincing them to sign over their estates to Liberty Baptist back when he was trying to establish himself as a force to be reckoned with.(No one in my family or that I stood to gain from, just in case you were going to go there in a response.)

As far as the trial lawyers, don't make me laugh. How many trial lawyers do you think the Reps employ? Of course they want to stop "frivolous lawsuits". I agree that a lot of them are frivolous, but along with those they want to stop any lawsuit that might hurt their corporate backers regardless of the justification for the action.

What's utterly ridiculous to me is that a person as obviously intelligent as you could fall for the scam that the Republican party has become.

[fredinator]

Bravo, OhSherrie!! I wish I had a clapping-hands emoticon, I would put it here...

[conversationpc]

Are you saying you think the needs of education are less important that the needs of the extremely wealthy Evangelical churches? Before you answer that keep in mind that Jerry Falwell has been a thorn in my side since the 70s when he was sending revamped school busses past my house to recruit people from the neighborhood churches in order to fill his. I have also had personal experience with him going to the local hospitals to visit dying patients and convincing them to sign over their estates to Liberty Baptist back when he was trying to establish himself as a force to be reckoned with.(No one in my family or that I stood to gain from, just in case you were going to go there in a response.)

I don't really know anything about Jerry Falwell, to tell you the truth. The only things I've ever heard from him are ridiculous stuff like how he thinks certain cartoon characters are gay and other irrelevant stuff like that. He misrepresents what Christians are all about, in my opinion.

The main thrust of the NEA is to oppose choice in education. Pretty much wherever it's been tried, it has been a success but they consistently oppose it because they are afraid that it will reduce the number of members in their lucrative union. Look at what they've done to schools in New York City, for instance. They basically cannot fire a bad teacher in that city. They have a special building set aside for teachers that can no longer teach but can't be fired and all these people do is sit around all day long, reading newspapers, playing games, etc., while their salaries are still being supported by the taxpayers. Real reform that actually works is consistently opposed by that union and they unfortunately have more influence on politicians on both sides of the aisle, but especially with liberals.

What's utterly ridiculous to me is that a person as obviously intelligent as you could fall for the scam that the Republican party has become.

I never said I was a fan of the Republican party. The only reason I'm even registered as a Republican is because I don't have the option of registering as an independent. Even if I did, I then wouldn't have the option of voting in a primary and being able to choose candidates who are actually going to run for office.

Besides, isn't it a bit hypocritical for you to lambaste me for supporting Republicans when you support Democrats who are just as bad, just with a different letter next to their name? MOST of the politicians in Washington are pretty much looking out for themselves and I guarantee you that if we knew which ones were engaged in illegal behavior, I feel pretty safe in saying that the percentage of each part that would be implicated would be about the same.

Personally, I'd like to see a lot more independents or even Libertarians elected to office and I've seriously thought about registering as a Libertarian a few times in the past. They have a stronger political movement here in Indiana than they do in most other states and the local talk show host has their state leaders on the show all the time and I find myself agreeing with them much more often than I do with either Republicans or Democrats. Liberals don't like them because they believe in personal liberty rather than collective freedom and many conservatives don't like them because they're often liberal on social issues (which I don't really agree with, either, but then there aren't many politicians that I agree with much across the board).

[ohsherrie]

Dave, I don't disagree that the educational system in this country sucks or that the NEA plays their part in it's problems. I do disagree that the NEA is as influential as the Evangelical lobbyists. I don't see too many school superintendents hanging out at the White House advising on policy. I'm not grouping all Christians under that Evangelical umbrella. I have no problem with the Christian religion. My problem is with the hypocricy of the political influence that the Evangelical organizations like Falwell's empire have.(He's not the only one, just the one who's absurd rhetoric I hear on virtually every local news cast.) They're ultimately in it for power and financial gain, not for religious beliefs. Any organization whose goals are better education for our children have the potential for much more benefit to our country.

The gun lobby, NRA is the second most powerful in Washington, second only to oil companies. Oil companies may not technically be a lobbying group, I don't know, but the results are the same. They get their special interests taken care of more than any other group.

I agree that the two party system is responsible for most of the problems in our political system. It's more about the power of the party and the benefits to their special interests than about what best's for the people of this country. I'm sticking with the Democrats because of the two choices I have under this system they best represent the greatest number of my interests and beliefs. We had a Libertarian running in our senate race this year. He made a lot of sense on a lot of issues, but as it stands right now, if I'd voted for him George Allen may have gotten his seat back and I just couldn't take the chance.

[The_Noble_Cause]

When did I say it was a rationale for war. Just countering your head-up-the-ass point.

It's not a "head-up-the-ass" point.
Never before in America's history have we adopted a policy of preemptive war a.k.a. "unprecedented".

True rock-ribbed conservatives do not favor this collosal foreign policy blunder.
Many never have (see Novak, Carlson, Buchanan).
The right wing echo chamber on AM radio is the only place where a ray of hope still dimly flickers.
As soon as the Baker commission released their findings, you had Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh all pontificating as if THEY knew better.

Bush will advocate one last surge in troops, the Dem-controlled congress will rightfully shoot it down, and people like you can blame everything on the liberals.
As evident in this thread, you've already started to do just that.

[conversationpc]

True rock-ribbed conservatives do not favor this collosal foreign policy blunder.
Many never have (see Novak, Carlson, Buchanan).
The right wing echo chamber on AM radio is the only place where a ray of hope still dimly flickers.
As soon as the Baker commission released their findings, you had Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh all pontificating as if THEY knew better.

The Baker commission was a joke. They didn't recommend anything that hasn't already been on the table and how can you take something like that seriously that didn't involve ANYONE with any actual military experience.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The Baker commission was a joke. They didn't recommend anything that hasn't already been on the table

Ahh, the perceptible effects of a Conservative radio floozy. So tragic.

Everyone (including many of the very Neo-Cons who dreamt up the war) are now against the policy.
You are no longer siding with the populace at large, the Republican party, or even the Conservative movement.
Rather, you have sworn allegiance to a few delluded old men in Washington over the good of nation, itself.
Sounds borderline treasonous, no?

We are right back to what Kerry prophetically stated in Vietnam, "how do you ask someone to be the last person to die for a mistake?"
Like it or not, that's where we're at.

and how can you take something like that seriously that didn't involve ANYONE with any actual military experience.

Because they exhaustively interviewed people who did.

[conversationpc]

Ahh, the perceptible effects of a Conservative radio floozy. So tragic.

...and your so-called opinions are really nothing different than the socialists in congress who've been parroting those same talking points for the last couple years or so.

Everyone (including many of the very Neo-Cons who dreamt up the war) are now against the policy.
You are no longer siding with the populace at large, the Republican party, or even the Conservative movement...

I don't give a flying rat's ass if my opinin is different than the rest of the contry and, even less, the Republicans or Conservatives.

Rather, you have sworn allegiance to a few delluded old men in Washington over the good of nation, itself.
Sounds borderline treasonous, no?

I swear allegiance only to my God and my country.

We are right back to what Kerry prophetically stated in Vietnam, "how do you ask someone to be the last person to die for a mistake?

In the same way, the war in Vietnam was micromanaged from the White House instead of by the Generals on the actual field of battle. We would've taken care of business just like we could have done in Iraq if the armchair quarterbacks in the administration and Pentagon would take more of a hands-off approach.

Because they exhaustively interviewed people who did.

I doubt it. The proposals they came out with are basically no different than other ideas that have been talked about for months on end by others with no military experience at all.