OT: New Movie Concern for Parents - The Golden Compass

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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:53 am

conversationpc wrote:
I never said evolution shouldn't be taught. All I'm asking for is a fair playing field.


Dave, I honestly can't believe that you don't understand the difference between teaching science and teaching belief. There is nothing to scientifically substantiate creation. Expecting people who don't believe in creation to allow it to be taught to their children is what's unfair. Teach your kids religion at home and in church because it has no place whatsoever in the curriculum of a public school.

Yes, there is plenty of evidence to point to the fact that Jesus and some other biblical figures actually existed. We also know that most of the places mentioned in the bible existed and many still do. None of that proves in any way that creation occurred as it is described in Genesis. In fact, the Garden of Eden is one of the places that they can find absolutely no evidence of. They have some theories that possibly before the flood that they think may have happened over the middle east that may have been what is written about as the Great Flood of Noah's fame, the water levels in the Persian Gulf may have been lower. If that was so, then the Tigris and Euphrates rivers may indeed have come together in one river before emptying into the gulf and there may have been an error in the writing or translation of Genesis so that it may have been meant to have said both rivers emptied into the same place rather than originating from the same source. If that is how it was then the place where the Garden of Eden may have existed may now be under the Persian Gulf.

Maybe your faith is what makes something like that seem substantial to you, but if all the scientific facts we have that substantiate the theory of evolution don't prove to you that it is scientifically valid, I don't see how you can consider what I described above as being evidence of creation.

No religious belief is seen as fact by those who don't share that belief. Evolution is not a religion, it's a scientific fact. You can't even actually compare creationism to evolution because one is a religious belief and the other is science.

You try to deny evolution, but at the same you're trying to fit it into your belief so that your belief won't become archaic.


I'm still trying to figure out what the heck you were talking about here.


Maybe you personally aren't trying to do it, but that's exactly what this Intelligent Design nonsense is all about. It's trying to combine the fact of evolution with the Christian belief in Adam and Eve. It's no more factual or scientifically substantiated than creation and also has no place in public schools.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:04 am

ohsherrie wrote:Dave, I honestly can't believe that you don't understand the difference between teaching science and teaching belief. There is nothing to scientifically substantiate creation. Expecting people who don't believe in creation to allow it to be taught to their children is what's unfair. Teach your kids religion at home and in church because it has no place whatsoever in the curriculum of a public school.


Have you ever actually studied the evidence for creation, intelligent design, or whatever the fashionable name for it is now? I hadn't either, until a few years ago and I was really surprised just how much evidence there is to support it. It doesn't answer all questions, just like evolution doesn't also, but there are some scientific views from the creation side that make more sense than the explanations give by evolutionists.
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Re: OT: New Movie Concern for Parents - The Golden Compass

Postby bionic » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:20 am

Blondie wrote:I wanted to send this link to everyone for their information.
It concerns the movie "The Golden Compass" that is being
marketed to kids. It has anti-religious themes and opens just before Christmas...

http://snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

Exactly what has this got to do with music :? In regards to most people that have issues with anything anti-religous,they generally have a belief and no understanding of the history of the book they follow.
Lets keep it about the music on here!!! :(
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Re: OT: New Movie Concern for Parents - The Golden Compass

Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:31 am

bionic wrote:
Blondie wrote:I wanted to send this link to everyone for their information.
It concerns the movie "The Golden Compass" that is being
marketed to kids. It has anti-religious themes and opens just before Christmas...

http://snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

Exactly what has this got to do with music :? In regards to most people that have issues with anything anti-religous,they generally have a belief and no understanding of the history of the book they follow.
Lets keep it about the music on here!!! :(


If you don't want to read it, there's no reason for you to be in here posting in the thread. Begone! :lol:
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Postby hoagiepete » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:47 am

This just what this board needs...threads on sex, religion and politics. That will take the heat of the boys for a while. Someone get a sex thread started.
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Re: OT: New Movie Concern for Parents - The Golden Compass

Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:24 am

bionic wrote:
Blondie wrote:I wanted to send this link to everyone for their information.
It concerns the movie "The Golden Compass" that is being
marketed to kids. It has anti-religious themes and opens just before Christmas...

http://snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

Exactly what has this got to do with music :? In regards to most people that have issues with anything anti-religous,they generally have a belief and no understanding of the history of the book they follow.
Lets keep it about the music on here!!! :(


If you'll go look at the Forum Index this is listed as the MRJF forum and is described as a forum for all topics of interest to Melodic Rock and Journey fans.

I don't have a single good thing to say about the current shit going on with Journey so I'm staying away from that subject.
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Re: OT: New Movie Concern for Parents - The Golden Compass

Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:41 am

ohsherrie wrote:I don't have a single good thing to say about the current shit going on with Journey so I'm staying away from that subject.


Yeah, this is less controversial. :lol:
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Postby Rhiannon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:49 am

conversationpc wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Dave, I honestly can't believe that you don't understand the difference between teaching science and teaching belief. There is nothing to scientifically substantiate creation. Expecting people who don't believe in creation to allow it to be taught to their children is what's unfair. Teach your kids religion at home and in church because it has no place whatsoever in the curriculum of a public school.


Have you ever actually studied the evidence for creation, intelligent design, or whatever the fashionable name for it is now? I hadn't either, until a few years ago and I was really surprised just how much evidence there is to support it. It doesn't answer all questions, just like evolution doesn't also, but there are some scientific views from the creation side that make more sense than the explanations give by evolutionists.


Good arguments, both sides.

Now, in summation: If I've said it once, I've not said it enough. Science, spiritual belief, the inexplicable, evolution, intelligent design, and everything else under the sun only works to prove the existance of the others. If you choose to see it this way, they are all complimentary and congruent and one is wrong no more than the other is right, they just ARE. Why does it have to be that explainations can only be one way or the other? Why can there not be a God who created things to evolve? Evolution is not false, it is real, just look on a basal level on how you can change and grow emotionally and physically over a short time, so why should we think the application of that over millenia is absurd? God is not false, but God is also not some little idea that we can fit squarely in a frame of understanding.

Step back, breathe in, and see the harmony in everything (every-little-thing) around you. Can't we all just get along? :wink:
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:57 am

Blue Radio Girl wrote:Now, in summation: If I've said it once, I've not said it enough. Science, spiritual belief, the inexplicable, evolution, intelligent design, and everything else under the sun only works to prove the existance of the others. If you choose to see it this way, they are all complimentary and congruent and one is wrong no more than the other is right, they just ARE. Why does it have to be that explainations can only be one way or the other? Why can there not be a God who created things to evolve? Evolution is not false, it is real, just look on a basal level on how you can change and grow emotionally and physically over a short time, so why should we think the application of that over millenia is absurd? God is not false, but God is also not some little idea that we can fit squarely in a frame of understanding.


Many people believe that God created things to evolve. That's not the argument here. Also, no one has said that no evolution occurs at all. Just see the discussion related to microevolution versus macroevolution.

Can't we all just get along? :wink:


NO! :lol:

:wink:
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Postby Rhiannon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:13 am

conversationpc wrote:
Can't we all just get along? :wink:


NO! :lol:

:wink:


Gah... okay, well my work here is done then. Carry on. :lol:
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:26 am

Blue Radio Girl wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Can't we all just get along? :wink:


NO! :lol:

:wink:


Gah... okay, well my work here is done then. Carry on. :lol:


:lol: Dave and I get along fine. This is a cool debate. :P
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Postby Rhiannon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:27 am

ohsherrie wrote:
Blue Radio Girl wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Can't we all just get along? :wink:


NO! :lol:

:wink:


Gah... okay, well my work here is done then. Carry on. :lol:


:lol: Dave and I get along fine. This is a cool debate. :P


I know. I just want to see more hugging around here is all. I went to hippie college, remember. :P :lol:
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:29 am

Blue Radio Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Blue Radio Girl wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Can't we all just get along? :wink:


NO! :lol:

:wink:


Gah... okay, well my work here is done then. Carry on. :lol:


:lol: Dave and I get along fine. This is a cool debate. :P


I know. I just want to see more hugging around here is all. I went to hippie college, remember. :P :lol:


Go smoke some weed then, you village idiot. :wink:

:lol:
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:40 am

conversationpc wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Dave, I honestly can't believe that you don't understand the difference between teaching science and teaching belief. There is nothing to scientifically substantiate creation. Expecting people who don't believe in creation to allow it to be taught to their children is what's unfair. Teach your kids religion at home and in church because it has no place whatsoever in the curriculum of a public school.


Have you ever actually studied the evidence for creation, intelligent design, or whatever the fashionable name for it is now? I hadn't either, until a few years ago and I was really surprised just how much evidence there is to support it. It doesn't answer all questions, just like evolution doesn't also, but there are some scientific views from the creation side that make more sense than the explanations give by evolutionists.


Yeah, I've studied it and I don't completely discount all of it, but even if I believed all of it I still wouldn't think it should be taught in public schools.

The two places where I think seperation of church and state are absolutely necessary if we are truly to have freedom of religion, speech and choice in this country are in the public schools and in the legislature.

I don't care that God is mentioned in the Declaration and Constitution, that "In God We Trust" is on the money, that the ten commandments is displayed in front of a court house, or that The Last Supper is on a mural in a court house. That's just stuff. It has nothing to do with education or legislation.
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:41 am

conversationpc wrote:
Go smoke some weed then, you village idiot. :wink:

:lol:


Hey Rhi can I come with? :wink:
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Postby Rhiannon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:49 am

conversationpc wrote:
Go smoke some weed then, you village idiot. :wink:

:lol:


Kiss my moderate viewpoint ass!! ...And yes, Sherrie, my hash is your hash! :lol:
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Postby Liam » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:57 am

Damn kids with their drugs. :lol:
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Postby Rhiannon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:09 am

Liam wrote:Damn kids with their drugs. :lol:


Quit sellin' it to me, then. :oops: :wink:
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Postby Liam » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:13 am

Blue Radio Girl wrote:
Liam wrote:Damn kids with their drugs. :lol:


Quit sellin' it to me, then. :oops: :wink:


I'm makin' money off of you...so NO. :lol:
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Postby Blondie » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:39 am

Well at least the discussion is back to kids... :lol: :lol:
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Postby Liam » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:44 am

Blondie wrote:Well at least the discussion is back to kids... :lol: :lol:


Blow me (PLEASE). :lol:
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Postby Blondie » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:47 am

Liam wrote:
Blondie wrote:Well at least the discussion is back to kids... :lol: :lol:


Blow me (PLEASE). :lol:


Hmmm....should I make a child comment here?
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Re: OT: New Movie Concern for Parents - The Golden Compass

Postby Blondie » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:48 am

bionic wrote:
Blondie wrote:I wanted to send this link to everyone for their information.
It concerns the movie "The Golden Compass" that is being
marketed to kids. It has anti-religious themes and opens just before Christmas...

http://snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

Exactly what has this got to do with music :? In regards to most people that have issues with anything anti-religous,they generally have a belief and no understanding of the history of the book they follow.
Lets keep it about the music on here!!! :(


DUH!!! Why do you think it has an OT in the title. Refer to my second quote below please... :roll:
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Postby Monker » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:47 pm

RaiderFan wrote:
conversationpc wrote:Arrgggh!!! HOW THE HELL AM I TRYING TO FORCE IT ON ANYONE BY SIMPLY DISCUSSING IT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD?! It really gets maddening that simply having a strong opinion and not being afraid to discuss it, debate it, question it, etc., is equated with "forcing" it on everyone else.

Hilarious!!!!! Laying breadcrumbs to your church door again, luring the pigeons Dave? As Al Gore said on tv the other day regarding global warming, that the other side (skeptics) shouldn't get air time. Funny! :lol:


That's interesting. Seems to me that nobody on this forum started a, "WARNING to parents! - The _Chronicles of Narnia_ are really an allegory for the Christian gospel. Just thoght parents should know in case they want to keep their kids away!" threads. If he wants to play the victim here, that's his choice...nobody is saying he shouldn't have his say.us But, when he does have his say, his comments are open for critique. Implying, even sarcasticly, that the 'other side' dominates this topic on this forum is ludicrous.
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Postby Rhiannon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Blondie wrote:
Liam wrote:
Blondie wrote:Well at least the discussion is back to kids... :lol: :lol:


Blow me (PLEASE). :lol:


Hmmm....should I make a child comment here?


Should I make a comment here? :twisted: :lol:
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Postby Wheels Of Fyre » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:23 pm

ohsherrie wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
I never said evolution shouldn't be taught. All I'm asking for is a fair playing field.


Dave, I honestly can't believe that you don't understand the difference between teaching science and teaching belief. There is nothing to scientifically substantiate creation. Expecting people who don't believe in creation to allow it to be taught to their children is what's unfair. Teach your kids religion at home and in church because it has no place whatsoever in the curriculum of a public school.

Yes, there is plenty of evidence to point to the fact that Jesus and some other biblical figures actually existed. We also know that most of the places mentioned in the bible existed and many still do. None of that proves in any way that creation occurred as it is described in Genesis. In fact, the Garden of Eden is one of the places that they can find absolutely no evidence of. They have some theories that possibly before the flood that they think may have happened over the middle east that may have been what is written about as the Great Flood of Noah's fame, the water levels in the Persian Gulf may have been lower. If that was so, then the Tigris and Euphrates rivers may indeed have come together in one river before emptying into the gulf and there may have been an error in the writing or translation of Genesis so that it may have been meant to have said both rivers emptied into the same place rather than originating from the same source. If that is how it was then the place where the Garden of Eden may have existed may now be under the Persian Gulf.

Maybe your faith is what makes something like that seem substantial to you, but if all the scientific facts we have that substantiate the theory of evolution don't prove to you that it is scientifically valid, I don't see how you can consider what I described above as being evidence of creation.

No religious belief is seen as fact by those who don't share that belief. Evolution is not a religion, it's a scientific fact. You can't even actually compare creationism to evolution because one is a religious belief and the other is science.

You try to deny evolution, but at the same you're trying to fit it into your belief so that your belief won't become archaic.


I'm still trying to figure out what the heck you were talking about here.


Maybe you personally aren't trying to do it, but that's exactly what this Intelligent Design nonsense is all about. It's trying to combine the fact of evolution with the Christian belief in Adam and Eve. It's no more factual or scientifically substantiated than creation and also has no place in public schools.


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Postby Wheels Of Fyre » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:31 pm

conversationpc wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Dave, I honestly can't believe that you don't understand the difference between teaching science and teaching belief. There is nothing to scientifically substantiate creation. Expecting people who don't believe in creation to allow it to be taught to their children is what's unfair. Teach your kids religion at home and in church because it has no place whatsoever in the curriculum of a public school.


Have you ever actually studied the evidence for creation, intelligent design, or whatever the fashionable name for it is now? I hadn't either, until a few years ago and I was really surprised just how much evidence there is to support it. It doesn't answer all questions, just like evolution doesn't also, but there are some scientific views from the creation side that make more sense than the explanations give by evolutionists.


The atheist response to "Intelligent Design" is:
"One day the Sun will expand and boil the Earth and all living things to death. It will then simply fade away and the Earth will be nothing more than a dead planet. This is intelligent design...?"

What this doesn't acknowledge is that Life finds a way. As time passes and evolution continues, Life just may very well find a way to adapt. It seems to me that evolution is a curious evidence of intelligent design!
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Postby Abitaman » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:15 pm

conversationpc wrote:
Higgy wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Macroevolution, however, does not occur. You don't see one species evolving into another species. It just doesn't happen.


No matter how much you WANT this to be true, it just isn't. Speciation happens all the time - and its proven and undisputed by scientists.


If by speciation, you mean changes within a species that may change the size, subtle changes in appearance, behavior, etc., then yes, speciation does occur. If you're talking about one species evolving into another, then no, it doesn't.


I DID NOT come from an ape!!!!!-ERIC
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Postby Abitaman » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:17 pm

Higgy wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Higgy wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Macroevolution, however, does not occur. You don't see one species evolving into another species. It just doesn't happen.


No matter how much you WANT this to be true, it just isn't. Speciation happens all the time - and its proven and undisputed by scientists.


If by speciation, you mean changes within a species that may change the size, subtle changes in appearance, behavior, etc., then yes, speciation does occur. If you're talking about one species evolving into another, then no, it doesn't.


I love how sure you are about this.

The biological species concept - a species is a species when it can interbreed and produce viable offspring.

Adaptations occuring over a long period of time can cause variation which causes differences within a species so vast that they are no longer the same species. This occurs in a number of ways...

Allopatric Speciation: A geographic divide seperates a species. Two different ecosystems are adapted to Eventually, two different species live in the two different ecosystems and diverge into two seperate species (i.e. an island becomes 2 islands due to higher water levels. The two new islands have different resources and different adaptations occur).

Parapatric speciation: One group of a species travels to a new ecosystem and interbreeds primarily with each other. This group adapts to a new ecosystem. (i.e. Lowland Gorillas move to the top of the Virunga mountains where it is much colder and contains different food sources. These Gorillas adapt to their new surroundings and become Mountain Gorillas).


Then what creature then an ape breed with to make man? and where did that creature come from-ERIC
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Postby Abitaman » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:22 pm

ohsherrie wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
I never said evolution shouldn't be taught. All I'm asking for is a fair playing field.


Dave, I honestly can't believe that you don't understand the difference between teaching science and teaching belief. There is nothing to scientifically substantiate creation. Expecting people who don't believe in creation to allow it to be taught to their children is what's unfair. Teach your kids religion at home and in church because it has no place whatsoever in the curriculum of a public school.

Yes, there is plenty of evidence to point to the fact that Jesus and some other biblical figures actually existed. We also know that most of the places mentioned in the bible existed and many still do. None of that proves in any way that creation occurred as it is described in Genesis. In fact, the Garden of Eden is one of the places that they can find absolutely no evidence of. They have some theories that possibly before the flood that they think may have happened over the middle east that may have been what is written about as the Great Flood of Noah's fame, the water levels in the Persian Gulf may have been lower. If that was so, then the Tigris and Euphrates rivers may indeed have come together in one river before emptying into the gulf and there may have been an error in the writing or translation of Genesis so that it may have been meant to have said both rivers emptied into the same place rather than originating from the same source. If that is how it was then the place where the Garden of Eden may have existed may now be under the Persian Gulf.

Maybe your faith is what makes something like that seem substantial to you, but if all the scientific facts we have that substantiate the theory of evolution don't prove to you that it is scientifically valid, I don't see how you can consider what I described above as being evidence of creation.

No religious belief is seen as fact by those who don't share that belief. Evolution is not a religion, it's a scientific fact. You can't even actually compare creationism to evolution because one is a religious belief and the other is science.

You try to deny evolution, but at the same you're trying to fit it into your belief so that your belief won't become archaic.


I'm still trying to figure out what the heck you were talking about here.


Maybe you personally aren't trying to do it, but that's exactly what this Intelligent Design nonsense is all about. It's trying to combine the fact of evolution with the Christian belief in Adam and Eve. It's no more factual or scientifically substantiated than creation and also has no place in public schools.


Religion should not be taught in school, but Creation should. Both sides should be presented. Everyone should be shown both sides, so a person can make there own mind up. The USA was founded on the belief of God, now it is just the opposite.
You can have a moment of silence or special treatment for just about everything, but if your a Christian nowadays forget about it. YOUR IMPOSING YOUR RELIGION, but if Muslim, go ahead and do it-ERIC
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