OT: Goodbye to George W. Bush - How would you say it?

[Saint John]

I can't or don't even know how to respond to this. Good God. With that logic, why even have an FBI, CIA or Secret Service? Why waste monies on the personnel, or the paper the briefings are printed on? Seriously, why? Just close up the country and live happily ever after, right?

That trap was easy:

While the scandals made bold headlines, Clinton's most significant failings as President concerned less publicized but far more ominous matters of national security. Clinton's loathing of the American military led to his failure in his primary responsibility: the protection of the American people. His actions with regard to military preparedness speak for themselves. In less than three years, deployments increased while manpower decreased from 2.1 million to 1.6 million. That decrease was the foundation upon which stood Al Gore's purported "reinvention" of government. Of the 305,000 employees removed from the federal payroll, 286,000 (or 90%) were military cuts.The statistics for America's defense during the Clinton years reveal the deep-seated animosity of the administration toward those who served in the military. The Army was cut from 18 divisions to 12. The Navy was reduced from 546 ships to 380. Air Force flight squadrons were cut from 76 to 50.

While the U.S. military was used as a 'meals on wheels' service by the Clinton administration in its nation building adventures, the military had its own humanitarian crises at home on its own bases. The pay freeze instituted by Clinton was imposed on a military in which 80 percent of all troops earned $30,000 per year or less. Food stamp applications soared and re-enlistment rates dropped.

[Rockindeano]

I can't or don't even know how to respond to this. Good God. With that logic, why even have an FBI, CIA or Secret Service? Why waste monies on the personnel, or the paper the briefings are printed on? Seriously, why? Just close up the country and live happily ever after, right?

That trap was easy:

While the scandals made bold headlines, Clinton's most significant failings as President concerned less publicized but far more ominous matters of national security. Clinton's loathing of the American military led to his failure in his primary responsibility: the protection of the American people. His actions with regard to military preparedness speak for themselves. In less than three years, deployments increased while manpower decreased from 2.1 million to 1.6 million. That decrease was the foundation upon which stood Al Gore's purported "reinvention" of government. Of the 305,000 employees removed from the federal payroll, 286,000 (or 90%) were military cuts.The statistics for America's defense during the Clinton years reveal the deep-seated animosity of the administration toward those who served in the military. The Army was cut from 18 divisions to 12. The Navy was reduced from 546 ships to 380. Air Force flight squadrons were cut from 76 to 50.

While the U.S. military was used as a 'meals on wheels' service by the Clinton administration in its nation building adventures, the military had its own humanitarian crises at home on its own bases. The pay freeze instituted by Clinton was imposed on a military in which 80 percent of all troops earned $30,000 per year or less. Food stamp applications soared and re-enlistment rates dropped.

Cutting and pasting now? Dude, don't insult me like that. Type your own words. delete that garbage now!

[Saint John]

I can't or don't even know how to respond to this. Good God. With that logic, why even have an FBI, CIA or Secret Service? Why waste monies on the personnel, or the paper the briefings are printed on? Seriously, why? Just close up the country and live happily ever after, right?

That trap was easy:

While the scandals made bold headlines, Clinton's most significant failings as President concerned less publicized but far more ominous matters of national security. Clinton's loathing of the American military led to his failure in his primary responsibility: the protection of the American people. His actions with regard to military preparedness speak for themselves. In less than three years, deployments increased while manpower decreased from 2.1 million to 1.6 million. That decrease was the foundation upon which stood Al Gore's purported "reinvention" of government. Of the 305,000 employees removed from the federal payroll, 286,000 (or 90%) were military cuts.The statistics for America's defense during the Clinton years reveal the deep-seated animosity of the administration toward those who served in the military. The Army was cut from 18 divisions to 12. The Navy was reduced from 546 ships to 380. Air Force flight squadrons were cut from 76 to 50.

While the U.S. military was used as a 'meals on wheels' service by the Clinton administration in its nation building adventures, the military had its own humanitarian crises at home on its own bases. The pay freeze instituted by Clinton was imposed on a military in which 80 percent of all troops earned $30,000 per year or less. Food stamp applications soared and re-enlistment rates dropped.

Cutting and pasting now? Dude, don't insult me like that. Type your own words. delete that garbage now!

Citing factual statistics is all good.

[Tito]

"You were the worst ever. GFY and get outta here!" That's what I would tell him.

Wow, Tito, I'm impressed .

Don't get too comfortable, Clinton is in the Top 5 and contender for Top 3.

[Jana]

"You were the worst ever. GFY and get outta here!" That's what I would tell him.

Wow, Tito, I'm impressed .

Don't get too comfortable, Clinton is in the Top 5 and contender for Top 3.

I take it back. Another stupid remark . Clinton in the top three or five worst presidents? Come on. Hah, I dream of those days. That's when I saw the light and switched from Republican to Democrat and voted for Clinton. You need professional help, Tito. .

[Rockindeano]

I can't or don't even know how to respond to this. Good God. With that logic, why even have an FBI, CIA or Secret Service? Why waste monies on the personnel, or the paper the briefings are printed on? Seriously, why? Just close up the country and live happily ever after, right?

That trap was easy:

While the scandals made bold headlines, Clinton's most significant failings as President concerned less publicized but far more ominous matters of national security. Clinton's loathing of the American military led to his failure in his primary responsibility: the protection of the American people. His actions with regard to military preparedness speak for themselves. In less than three years, deployments increased while manpower decreased from 2.1 million to 1.6 million. That decrease was the foundation upon which stood Al Gore's purported "reinvention" of government. Of the 305,000 employees removed from the federal payroll, 286,000 (or 90%) were military cuts.The statistics for America's defense during the Clinton years reveal the deep-seated animosity of the administration toward those who served in the military. The Army was cut from 18 divisions to 12. The Navy was reduced from 546 ships to 380. Air Force flight squadrons were cut from 76 to 50.

While the U.S. military was used as a 'meals on wheels' service by the Clinton administration in its nation building adventures, the military had its own humanitarian crises at home on its own bases. The pay freeze instituted by Clinton was imposed on a military in which 80 percent of all troops earned $30,000 per year or less. Food stamp applications soared and re-enlistment rates dropped.

Cutting and pasting now? Dude, don't insult me like that. Type your own words. delete that garbage now!

Citing factual statistics is all good.

What does the military have to do with intelligence and the fact the president doesn't give two shits enough to even read his own security briefings? The US Military has zero to do with 9/11. And oh yeah, by the way, the military did need to be cut. It was far too big and a waste of money. Technology advances made it possible to do more with less people. It is all good, just too bad the powers that be who control the same technology and war planning is not only corrupt, but also incompetent.

Dan, quit now, you are getting Lionized!

[HERO]

You Americans........as in you're not one.......apparently. You Americans is a slur to our country, as in all of us. Not that I agree with all the policies of this or other Presidents before him, but don't give a blanket insult like that. I have respect for most people everywhere. But I never say You___________(fill in the name of your country here) as if all of you were worthless.

So Hero. What nationality are you? Is everyone in your country a shining exact replica of your government? Maybe before you slur US Americans, you will see in our country we have the right to agree or disagree with our governing parties. Thus the policies of said government can be openly disagreed with. I am proud to be an American. But I do not always agree with decisions that are made.
Please show respect, as you would want showed to you.

Whoa there cowboy. Claiming that my statement was blanket attack on all Americans is putting it a bit strong. Maybe you have raw nerve there. It was never my intention to insult all Americans. Just the few who think it right to execute someone for throwing a shoe. It is disgusting and reprehensible to call for someone to be killed for something so trivial. Get some perspective!!! It is that very ethos that taints the world perception of a once respected country that you hold so dear. I fully realise that not all citizens are shining examples of their country, we to have our own unsavoury elements.

As for the question of respect, I totally agree with you. We should all treat others as we would expect to be treated. However, several people here have shown me very little respect in the past. And I am sure that they will flock here just to prove me right.

[Michigan Girl]

You Americans........as in you're not one.......apparently. You Americans is a slur to our country, as in all of us. Not that I agree with all the policies of this or other Presidents before him, but don't give a blanket insult like that. I have respect for most people everywhere. But I never say You___________(fill in the name of your country here) as if all of you were worthless.

So Hero. What nationality are you? Is everyone in your country a shining exact replica of your government? Maybe before you slur US Americans, you will see in our country we have the right to agree or disagree with our governing parties. Thus the policies of said government can be openly disagreed with. I am proud to be an American. But I do not always agree with decisions that are made.
Please show respect, as you would want showed to you.

Whoa there cowboy. Claiming that my statement was blanket attack on all Americans is putting it a bit strong. Maybe you have raw nerve there. It was never my intention to insult all Americans. Just the few who think it right to execute someone for throwing a shoe. It is disgusting and reprehensible to call for someone to be killed for something so trivial. Get some perspective!!! It is that very ethos that taints the world perception of a once respected country that you hold so dear. I fully realise that not all citizens are shining examples of their country, we to have our own unsavoury elements.

As for the question of respect, I totally agree with you. We should all treat others as we would expect to be treated. However, several people here have shown me very little respect in the past. And I am sure that they will flock here just to prove me right.

Nope....this is very well stated!!! Except, Gin might not like being called a Cowboy, I think she's a HOG....

[T-Bone]

Easy...



You're Done... Get The Fuck Out!

[Saint John]

Dan, quit now, you are getting Lionized!

Dude, do even a little research and you'll find that William Cohen, Clinton's Secretary Of Defense, forecasted an attack on the WTC in 1999. But Clinton said that the Cold War was "over" and there were no "viable" threats. This moronic idealogy is then basically cemented as fact when he rejected the Sudan's offer to extradict Bin Laden. Clinton didn't even view him as a fucking threat!!! How'd that work out for us? Do some more research and you'll find out that the CIA was so decimated by budget cuts that nobody in the entire organization could speak Pashtun...the language of the Taliban. Clinton received intercepted Taliban conversations and had them sent to fucking Pakistan for translation. And guess what they did while Billy was getting his knob slobbered on...they tipped off Bin Laden and he got the fuck out of there!!! Please do even a little research or you run the risk of continually hopping around here on one leg while the other one is in your mouth.

[artist4perry]

You Americans........as in you're not one.......apparently. You Americans is a slur to our country, as in all of us. Not that I agree with all the policies of this or other Presidents before him, but don't give a blanket insult like that. I have respect for most people everywhere. But I never say You___________(fill in the name of your country here) as if all of you were worthless.

So Hero. What nationality are you? Is everyone in your country a shining exact replica of your government? Maybe before you slur US Americans, you will see in our country we have the right to agree or disagree with our governing parties. Thus the policies of said government can be openly disagreed with. I am proud to be an American. But I do not always agree with decisions that are made.
Please show respect, as you would want showed to you.

Whoa there cowboy. Claiming that my statement was blanket attack on all Americans is putting it a bit strong. Maybe you have raw nerve there. It was never my intention to insult all Americans. Just the few who think it right to execute someone for throwing a shoe. It is disgusting and reprehensible to call for someone to be killed for something so trivial. Get some perspective!!! It is that very ethos that taints the world perception of a once respected country that you hold so dear. I fully realise that not all citizens are shining examples of their country, we to have our own unsavoury elements.

As for the question of respect, I totally agree with you. We should all treat others as we would expect to be treated. However, several people here have shown me very little respect in the past. And I am sure that they will flock here just to prove me right.

First off I was born in L.A., California. But I was raised in Arkansas, we don't like to be called Cowboys either...........LOL! That is Texas.
I am not upset with you at all. Just asking you not to blanket all Americans as YOU Americans. Seeing that you don't actually feel that way makes it much clearer. I seemed to in the course of letting you know this, garner the attention of some very strongly oppinionated individuals. All I was saying is I get tired of the You Americans, or the You Brits, you get the picture I am sure. I was not having a problem with your disagreeing with the shoe thrower being harmed. In fact I feel we are on the same page. As I said, that was the voice of one individual, not the voice of America. In the process of scolding the one, you blanketed the whole. That was and is my point. I am glad to see on this we understand each other. Have a great Christmas!

[Arianddu]

He got off easy.

I hope you mean GWB!

No, the asshole that threw the shoe. I hope he gets executed.

Has anyone told you that you're a charmer? If so, they lied!

You Americans certainly have a way of endearing yourself to the rest of humanity. It's a mystery to me why anyone would want to throw a shoe at GWB.

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????

I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

[artist4perry]

He got off easy.

I hope you mean GWB!

No, the asshole that threw the shoe. I hope he gets executed.

Has anyone told you that you're a charmer? If so, they lied!

You Americans certainly have a way of endearing yourself to the rest of humanity. It's a mystery to me why anyone would want to throw a shoe at GWB.

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

I know a few moms headed for the chamber! I had a friend who's mom threw shoes, she could not catch them and she threw shoes at them, the kids just laughed. Let's face it, it was not a bomb, it was a shoe, the most he could have given him is a black eye. Even He laughed it off. It was a show of disgust. A protest, just lead him out of the room and carry on............

[Luvsaugeri]

He got off easy.

I hope you mean GWB!

No, the asshole that threw the shoe. I hope he gets executed.

Has anyone told you that you're a charmer? If so, they lied!

You Americans certainly have a way of endearing yourself to the rest of humanity. It's a mystery to me why anyone would want to throw a shoe at GWB.

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????

I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

I knew he was joking, and being extreme to prove a point.

What I was agreeing with is that finally an American is outraged at the way OUR President was disrespected. As all Americans should be outraged.

[Arianddu]

Save your absurd Kumbaya speech for tree huggers and retards, dude. Clinton sat back and coddled every nation in the world and we were repeatedly attacked, saw our embassies blown to bits, our Trade Centers attacked, our soldiers beaten to death and dragged through streets and doing nothing only emboldened our enemies. Our allies are pussies. Fuck them. We're self-sufficient. Seal the borders and clean house from within. Say what you want about President Bush, but he has seemingly disabled Al Quaida and they're now less of a threat than the fucking Latin Kings. You dumocrats just don't get it. We're always going to be hated. This is a several THOUSAND year hatred against us in the name of religion and it will NEVER change until you kill these fuckers off. But you think lesbo Hillary and the fucking sock monkey are going to go on a "mending fences" tour. Ok.

1. The US doesn't have a thousand years of history. As the USA, it doesn't even have half of that.

2. Not all Americans are Christians or Jews.

3. Not all Christians or Jews are American.

4. 'Us' as you have used it is not the same as US, even though you seem to think it is.

This is why I have a problem with many Americans; not all, certainly, but many. People who behave as though 'The West' means 'America' - the same people who claim it's the best country in the world without any sense of irony, the same people who proclaim that US-style democracy is the way the world should go, the same people who seem to have very little understanding that the majority of the rest of the people of the world do not think like Americans, do not live like Americans, and do not want to be like Americans. The way the USA does things is not the best way; I can't see how it can be the best way for the the USA (but then, I don't live there and I am biased), and it certainly isn't the best way for the rest of the world.

And while I'm on a mild bitch-fest - 'The West', 'Western Democracy', 'Western Culture' etc: 'West' and 'Western' are short hand for Western European. Of which, because of its history of European settlement, the US is a part. The USA is not the progenitor, nor is it the determinant factor in what is considered 'Western'.

[Luvsaugeri]

Save your absurd Kumbaya speech for tree huggers and retards, dude. Clinton sat back and coddled every nation in the world and we were repeatedly attacked, saw our embassies blown to bits, our Trade Centers attacked, our soldiers beaten to death and dragged through streets and doing nothing only emboldened our enemies. Our allies are pussies. Fuck them. We're self-sufficient. Seal the borders and clean house from within. Say what you want about President Bush, but he has seemingly disabled Al Quaida and they're now less of a threat than the fucking Latin Kings. You dumocrats just don't get it. We're always going to be hated. This is a several THOUSAND year hatred against us in the name of religion and it will NEVER change until you kill these fuckers off. But you think lesbo Hillary and the fucking sock monkey are going to go on a "mending fences" tour. Ok.

1. The US doesn't have a thousand years of history. As the USA, it doesn't even have half of that.

2. Not all Americans are Christians or Jews.

3. Not all Christians or Jews are American.

4. 'Us' as you have used it is not the same as US, even though you seem to think it is.

This is why I have a problem with many Americans; not all, certainly, but many. People who behave as though 'The West' means 'America' - the same people who claim it's the best country in the world without any sense of irony, the same people who proclaim that US-style democracy is the way the world should go, the same people who seem to have very little understanding that the majority of the rest of the people of the world do not think like Americans, do not live like Americans, and do not want to be like Americans. The way the USA does things is not the best way; I can't see how it can be the best way for the the USA (but then, I don't live there and I am biased), and it certainly isn't the best way for the rest of the world.

And while I'm on a mild bitch-fest - 'The West', 'Western Democracy', 'Western Culture' etc: 'West' and 'Western' are short hand for Western European. Of which, because of its history of European settlement, the US is a part. The USA is not the progenitor, nor is it the determinant factor in what is considered 'Western'.

Then the rest of the world should stop sticking their hands out and expecting help from the US whenever they are in need!!!

[Arianddu]

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????

I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

I knew he was joking, and being extreme to prove a point.

What I was agreeing with is that finally an American is outraged at the way OUR President was disrespected. As all Americans should be outraged.

Fair enough, but I can't agree with you that it's something worth being outraged about. I save my outrage for things like the detainment and torture of Australian citizens by a nation that is supposedly our ally, and my country's former government refusing to demand their release to Australia, as the British did in the same circumstances, because they wanted to secure a trade deal (in which Australia got fucked anyway.)

If someone threw a shoe at my Prime Minister (who I support) I'd laugh and say 'good for them for expressing an opinion. And good for Rudd in accepting graciously that not everyone agrees with him.' Which, to give Shrubbie his due, he seemed to do.

[Saint John]

Save your absurd Kumbaya speech for tree huggers and retards, dude. Clinton sat back and coddled every nation in the world and we were repeatedly attacked, saw our embassies blown to bits, our Trade Centers attacked, our soldiers beaten to death and dragged through streets and doing nothing only emboldened our enemies. Our allies are pussies. Fuck them. We're self-sufficient. Seal the borders and clean house from within. Say what you want about President Bush, but he has seemingly disabled Al Quaida and they're now less of a threat than the fucking Latin Kings. You dumocrats just don't get it. We're always going to be hated. This is a several THOUSAND year hatred against us in the name of religion and it will NEVER change until you kill these fuckers off. But you think lesbo Hillary and the fucking sock monkey are going to go on a "mending fences" tour. Ok.

1. The US doesn't have a thousand years of history. As the USA, it doesn't even have half of that.

2. Not all Americans are Christians or Jews.

3. Not all Christians or Jews are American.

4. 'Us' as you have used it is not the same as US, even though you seem to think it is.

This is why I have a problem with many Americans; not all, certainly, but many. People who behave as though 'The West' means 'America' - the same people who claim it's the best country in the world without any sense of irony, the same people who proclaim that US-style democracy is the way the world should go, the same people who seem to have very little understanding that the majority of the rest of the people of the world do not think like Americans, do not live like Americans, and do not want to be like Americans. The way the USA does things is not the best way; I can't see how it can be the best way for the the USA (but then, I don't live there and I am biased), and it certainly isn't the best way for the rest of the world.

And while I'm on a mild bitch-fest - 'The West', 'Western Democracy', 'Western Culture' etc: 'West' and 'Western' are short hand for Western European. Of which, because of its history of European settlement, the US is a part. The USA is not the progenitor, nor is it the determinant factor in what is considered 'Western'.

"Us" meant non-Muslim.

[Arianddu]

Save your absurd Kumbaya speech for tree huggers and retards, dude. Clinton sat back and coddled every nation in the world and we were repeatedly attacked, saw our embassies blown to bits, our Trade Centers attacked, our soldiers beaten to death and dragged through streets and doing nothing only emboldened our enemies. Our allies are pussies. Fuck them. We're self-sufficient. Seal the borders and clean house from within. Say what you want about President Bush, but he has seemingly disabled Al Quaida and they're now less of a threat than the fucking Latin Kings. You dumocrats just don't get it. We're always going to be hated. This is a several THOUSAND year hatred against us in the name of religion and it will NEVER change until you kill these fuckers off. But you think lesbo Hillary and the fucking sock monkey are going to go on a "mending fences" tour. Ok.

1. The US doesn't have a thousand years of history. As the USA, it doesn't even have half of that.

2. Not all Americans are Christians or Jews.

3. Not all Christians or Jews are American.

4. 'Us' as you have used it is not the same as US, even though you seem to think it is.

This is why I have a problem with many Americans; not all, certainly, but many. People who behave as though 'The West' means 'America' - the same people who claim it's the best country in the world without any sense of irony, the same people who proclaim that US-style democracy is the way the world should go, the same people who seem to have very little understanding that the majority of the rest of the people of the world do not think like Americans, do not live like Americans, and do not want to be like Americans. The way the USA does things is not the best way; I can't see how it can be the best way for the the USA (but then, I don't live there and I am biased), and it certainly isn't the best way for the rest of the world.

And while I'm on a mild bitch-fest - 'The West', 'Western Democracy', 'Western Culture' etc: 'West' and 'Western' are short hand for Western European. Of which, because of its history of European settlement, the US is a part. The USA is not the progenitor, nor is it the determinant factor in what is considered 'Western'.

Then the rest of the world should stop sticking their hands out and expecting help from the US whenever they are in need!!!

Can't recall the last time Australia asked for a bail out. We're part of the world, you know.
And I believe the USA has a huge international debt. Call it aid, call it a loan, it's all about finance cutting both ways. If the world calls in the USA's debt, you are seriously screwed.
I would much prefer to see the US stop governmental foreign aid if it would also stop interferring in international financial policy. I think the world could handle the consequences of that far better than the US currently could.

[Luvsaugeri]

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????

I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

I knew he was joking, and being extreme to prove a point.

What I was agreeing with is that finally an American is outraged at the way OUR President was disrespected. As all Americans should be outraged.

Fair enough, but I can't agree with you that it's something worth being outraged about. I save my outrage for things like the detainment and torture of Australian citizens by a nation that is supposedly our ally, and my country's former government refusing to demand their release to Australia, as the British did in the same circumstances, because they wanted to secure a trade deal (in which Australia got fucked anyway.)

If someone threw a shoe at my Prime Minister (who I support) I'd laugh and say 'good for them for expressing an opinion. And good for Rudd in accepting graciously that not everyone agrees with him.' Which, to give Shrubbie his due, he seemed to do.

Perhaps 'outrage' was too strong of a word. I just don't understand Americans that applauded the behavior. I think it's terrible. I don't care who the person is. And I would be ashamed if an American reporter did something like that to a world leader of another country.

[Arianddu]

Save your absurd Kumbaya speech for tree huggers and retards, dude. Clinton sat back and coddled every nation in the world and we were repeatedly attacked, saw our embassies blown to bits, our Trade Centers attacked, our soldiers beaten to death and dragged through streets and doing nothing only emboldened our enemies. Our allies are pussies. Fuck them. We're self-sufficient. Seal the borders and clean house from within. Say what you want about President Bush, but he has seemingly disabled Al Quaida and they're now less of a threat than the fucking Latin Kings. You dumocrats just don't get it. We're always going to be hated. This is a several THOUSAND year hatred against us in the name of religion and it will NEVER change until you kill these fuckers off. But you think lesbo Hillary and the fucking sock monkey are going to go on a "mending fences" tour. Ok.

1. The US doesn't have a thousand years of history. As the USA, it doesn't even have half of that.

2. Not all Americans are Christians or Jews.

3. Not all Christians or Jews are American.

4. 'Us' as you have used it is not the same as US, even though you seem to think it is.

This is why I have a problem with many Americans; not all, certainly, but many. People who behave as though 'The West' means 'America' - the same people who claim it's the best country in the world without any sense of irony, the same people who proclaim that US-style democracy is the way the world should go, the same people who seem to have very little understanding that the majority of the rest of the people of the world do not think like Americans, do not live like Americans, and do not want to be like Americans. The way the USA does things is not the best way; I can't see how it can be the best way for the the USA (but then, I don't live there and I am biased), and it certainly isn't the best way for the rest of the world.

And while I'm on a mild bitch-fest - 'The West', 'Western Democracy', 'Western Culture' etc: 'West' and 'Western' are short hand for Western European. Of which, because of its history of European settlement, the US is a part. The USA is not the progenitor, nor is it the determinant factor in what is considered 'Western'.

"Us" meant non-Muslim.

But you were talking about the USA NOT non-muslim/western countries. Which is kind of my point.

[artist4perry]

Save your absurd Kumbaya speech for tree huggers and retards, dude. Clinton sat back and coddled every nation in the world and we were repeatedly attacked, saw our embassies blown to bits, our Trade Centers attacked, our soldiers beaten to death and dragged through streets and doing nothing only emboldened our enemies. Our allies are pussies. Fuck them. We're self-sufficient. Seal the borders and clean house from within. Say what you want about President Bush, but he has seemingly disabled Al Quaida and they're now less of a threat than the fucking Latin Kings. You dumocrats just don't get it. We're always going to be hated. This is a several THOUSAND year hatred against us in the name of religion and it will NEVER change until you kill these fuckers off. But you think lesbo Hillary and the fucking sock monkey are going to go on a "mending fences" tour. Ok.

1. The US doesn't have a thousand years of history. As the USA, it doesn't even have half of that.

2. Not all Americans are Christians or Jews.

3. Not all Christians or Jews are American.

4. 'Us' as you have used it is not the same as US, even though you seem to think it is.

This is why I have a problem with many Americans; not all, certainly, but many. People who behave as though 'The West' means 'America' - the same people who claim it's the best country in the world without any sense of irony, the same people who proclaim that US-style democracy is the way the world should go, the same people who seem to have very little understanding that the majority of the rest of the people of the world do not think like Americans, do not live like Americans, and do not want to be like Americans. The way the USA does things is not the best way; I can't see how it can be the best way for the the USA (but then, I don't live there and I am biased), and it certainly isn't the best way for the rest of the world.

And while I'm on a mild bitch-fest - 'The West', 'Western Democracy', 'Western Culture' etc: 'West' and 'Western' are short hand for Western European. Of which, because of its history of European settlement, the US is a part. The USA is not the progenitor, nor is it the determinant factor in what is considered 'Western'.

The united states is comprised of many countries. We are the melting pot of all countries. So with that comes various ideas thoughts cultures,etc. I know we do not understand all cultures, to do so one has to live in those cultures for a while, in order to get a better understanding. Just the same, I think some countries have no clue about us, because they have never lived here. I think the more we know about each other the better. Sometimes the unknown can cause doubts suspisions and biases. Not everyone feels we have the "best" way. But most people have a national loyalty regardless of where they call home. Because it is home.

[Arianddu]

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????

I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

I knew he was joking, and being extreme to prove a point.

What I was agreeing with is that finally an American is outraged at the way OUR President was disrespected. As all Americans should be outraged.

Fair enough, but I can't agree with you that it's something worth being outraged about. I save my outrage for things like the detainment and torture of Australian citizens by a nation that is supposedly our ally, and my country's former government refusing to demand their release to Australia, as the British did in the same circumstances, because they wanted to secure a trade deal (in which Australia got fucked anyway.)

If someone threw a shoe at my Prime Minister (who I support) I'd laugh and say 'good for them for expressing an opinion. And good for Rudd in accepting graciously that not everyone agrees with him.' Which, to give Shrubbie his due, he seemed to do.

Perhaps 'outrage' was too strong of a word. I just don't understand Americans that applauded the behavior. I think it's terrible. I don't care who the person is. And I would be ashamed if an American reporter did something like that to a world leader of another country.

And I'd be saying 'the idiot has a right to express his opinions. And a right to look like a total twat whilst doing it.'

Funny how 'freedom of speech' doesn't seem to be quite so vaunted when it's not an American doing it (and that's not aimed just at you, btw)

[Rick]

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????

I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

I knew he was joking, and being extreme to prove a point.

What I was agreeing with is that finally an American is outraged at the way OUR President was disrespected. As all Americans should be outraged.

Fair enough, but I can't agree with you that it's something worth being outraged about. I save my outrage for things like the detainment and torture of Australian citizens by a nation that is supposedly our ally, and my country's former government refusing to demand their release to Australia, as the British did in the same circumstances, because they wanted to secure a trade deal (in which Australia got fucked anyway.)

If someone threw a shoe at my Prime Minister (who I support) I'd laugh and say 'good for them for expressing an opinion. And good for Rudd in accepting graciously that not everyone agrees with him.' Which, to give Shrubbie his due, he seemed to do.

Perhaps 'outrage' was too strong of a word. I just don't understand Americans that applauded the behavior. I think it's terrible. I don't care who the person is. And I would be ashamed if an American reporter did something like that to a world leader of another country.

And I'd be saying 'the idiot has a right to express his opinions. And a right to look like a total twat whilst doing it.'

Funny how 'freedom of speech' doesn't seem to be quite so vaunted when it's not an American doing it (and that's not aimed just at you, btw)

I don't care where you're from. Freedom of speech doesn't extend to throwing objects. That's got nothing to do with speech or opinion, that's violence.

[Luvsaugeri]

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????

I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

I knew he was joking, and being extreme to prove a point.

What I was agreeing with is that finally an American is outraged at the way OUR President was disrespected. As all Americans should be outraged.

Fair enough, but I can't agree with you that it's something worth being outraged about. I save my outrage for things like the detainment and torture of Australian citizens by a nation that is supposedly our ally, and my country's former government refusing to demand their release to Australia, as the British did in the same circumstances, because they wanted to secure a trade deal (in which Australia got fucked anyway.)

If someone threw a shoe at my Prime Minister (who I support) I'd laugh and say 'good for them for expressing an opinion. And good for Rudd in accepting graciously that not everyone agrees with him.' Which, to give Shrubbie his due, he seemed to do.

Perhaps 'outrage' was too strong of a word. I just don't understand Americans that applauded the behavior. I think it's terrible. I don't care who the person is. And I would be ashamed if an American reporter did something like that to a world leader of another country.

And I'd be saying 'the idiot has a right to express his opinions. And a right to look like a total twat whilst doing it.'

Funny how 'freedom of speech' doesn't seem to be quite so vaunted when it's not an American doing it (and that's not aimed just at you, btw)

That's the point......WHO provided him with that 'freedom of expression'??

[Arianddu]

Save your absurd Kumbaya speech for tree huggers and retards, dude. Clinton sat back and coddled every nation in the world and we were repeatedly attacked, saw our embassies blown to bits, our Trade Centers attacked, our soldiers beaten to death and dragged through streets and doing nothing only emboldened our enemies. Our allies are pussies. Fuck them. We're self-sufficient. Seal the borders and clean house from within. Say what you want about President Bush, but he has seemingly disabled Al Quaida and they're now less of a threat than the fucking Latin Kings. You dumocrats just don't get it. We're always going to be hated. This is a several THOUSAND year hatred against us in the name of religion and it will NEVER change until you kill these fuckers off. But you think lesbo Hillary and the fucking sock monkey are going to go on a "mending fences" tour. Ok.

1. The US doesn't have a thousand years of history. As the USA, it doesn't even have half of that.

2. Not all Americans are Christians or Jews.

3. Not all Christians or Jews are American.

4. 'Us' as you have used it is not the same as US, even though you seem to think it is.

This is why I have a problem with many Americans; not all, certainly, but many. People who behave as though 'The West' means 'America' - the same people who claim it's the best country in the world without any sense of irony, the same people who proclaim that US-style democracy is the way the world should go, the same people who seem to have very little understanding that the majority of the rest of the people of the world do not think like Americans, do not live like Americans, and do not want to be like Americans. The way the USA does things is not the best way; I can't see how it can be the best way for the the USA (but then, I don't live there and I am biased), and it certainly isn't the best way for the rest of the world.

And while I'm on a mild bitch-fest - 'The West', 'Western Democracy', 'Western Culture' etc: 'West' and 'Western' are short hand for Western European. Of which, because of its history of European settlement, the US is a part. The USA is not the progenitor, nor is it the determinant factor in what is considered 'Western'.

The united states is comprised of many countries. We are the melting pot of all countries. So with that comes various ideas thoughts cultures,etc. I know we do not understand all cultures, to do so one has to live in those cultures for a while, in order to get a better understanding. Just the same, I think some countries have no clue about us, because they have never lived here. I think the more we know about each other the better. Sometimes the unknown can cause doubts suspisions and biases. Not everyone feels we have the "best" way. But most people have a national loyalty regardless of where they call home. Because it is home.

Smart lady. I have dual nationality, I'm proud of being both British and Australian and I love both countries, but I also acknowledge that they have some pretty huge faults. And you acknowledge that the USA is not the be-all and end-all, and that not all Americans, let alone all people, think the same way, or should think the same way; it's one of the many reasons why I like you so much. But sadly, a fairly large proportion of Americans I have met/spoken with, do behave as though that is the case; maybe half. It's disheatening, especially because so often it is thoughtless, unreasoned and unconscious - and it's why I love talking to Americans who can think differently.

[Arianddu]

I hate to break it to you Rockindeano, we were hated long before Bush.

You need to brush up history. Of course there is always a faction of pirate Somalis and towel headed jockey's who are going to hate us, but take a look around. Australia, UK, Spain, Russia, China, France, Italy, even Canada- these nations don't have our back any more. These states weren't turning on us during Clinton's 8 years or even Bush 41's. They stood by us at every turn. Bush rounded up a shitload of allies for Iraq didn't he? The UK sent a decent amount of soldiers, but now they are packing up and going home, Spain sent a bus load of soldiers and soon said, "fuck this," and Japan provided a laundry ship. Yeah, the world was definitely behind us for that mission. Australia immediately sent help, probably based on our recent history of good will(thanks Bill), and they too soon found out this was a bogus war. Sri Lanka sent 4 police guards. Outstanding number of allies we have huh?

So, artist4perry, "hate it to break it to you," but but we weren't hated before W.

Um... yeah, you were Deano. Sorry.

[Uno_up]

If someone threw a shoe at my Prime Minister (who I support) I'd laugh and say 'good for them for expressing an opinion. seemed to do.

BULLSHIT!...The press needs to know it's place in the presence of foreign dignitaries. Their job is to ask question add/or write a fucking story...that's it. That fucker in Iraq was looking to make a name for himself. I hope he rots in jail and takes a few kwaanza sausages up his starfish.

[Michigan Girl]

I find him to be quite charming at times.....and I agree with his statement!!

Are you seriously saying you would approve of someone being killed for throwing a shoe!?

Seriously?????

I mean, I wouldn't even joke about that!

I knew he was joking, and being extreme to prove a point.

What I was agreeing with is that finally an American is outraged at the way OUR President was disrespected. As all Americans should be outraged.

Fair enough, but I can't agree with you that it's something worth being outraged about. I save my outrage for things like the detainment and torture of Australian citizens by a nation that is supposedly our ally, and my country's former government refusing to demand their release to Australia, as the British did in the same circumstances, because they wanted to secure a trade deal (in which Australia got fucked anyway.)

If someone threw a shoe at my Prime Minister (who I support) I'd laugh and say 'good for them for expressing an opinion. And good for Rudd in accepting graciously that not everyone agrees with him.' Which, to give Shrubbie his due, he seemed to do.

Perhaps 'outrage' was too strong of a word. I just don't understand Americans that applauded the behavior. I think it's terrible. I don't care who the person is. And I would be ashamed if an American reporter did something like that to a world leader of another country.

And I'd be saying 'the idiot has a right to express his opinions. And a right to look like a total twat whilst doing it.'

Funny how 'freedom of speech' doesn't seem to be quite so vaunted when it's not an American doing it (and that's not aimed just at you, btw)

Sure, the idiot has a right to express his opinion, just as LA has a right to be outraged by that opinion.....but
I'm pretty sure freedom of speech should not inflict injury, regardless of the severity. Let me check that, though

[artist4perry]

Save your absurd Kumbaya speech for tree huggers and retards, dude. Clinton sat back and coddled every nation in the world and we were repeatedly attacked, saw our embassies blown to bits, our Trade Centers attacked, our soldiers beaten to death and dragged through streets and doing nothing only emboldened our enemies. Our allies are pussies. Fuck them. We're self-sufficient. Seal the borders and clean house from within. Say what you want about President Bush, but he has seemingly disabled Al Quaida and they're now less of a threat than the fucking Latin Kings. You dumocrats just don't get it. We're always going to be hated. This is a several THOUSAND year hatred against us in the name of religion and it will NEVER change until you kill these fuckers off. But you think lesbo Hillary and the fucking sock monkey are going to go on a "mending fences" tour. Ok.

1. The US doesn't have a thousand years of history. As the USA, it doesn't even have half of that.

2. Not all Americans are Christians or Jews.

3. Not all Christians or Jews are American.

4. 'Us' as you have used it is not the same as US, even though you seem to think it is.

This is why I have a problem with many Americans; not all, certainly, but many. People who behave as though 'The West' means 'America' - the same people who claim it's the best country in the world without any sense of irony, the same people who proclaim that US-style democracy is the way the world should go, the same people who seem to have very little understanding that the majority of the rest of the people of the world do not think like Americans, do not live like Americans, and do not want to be like Americans. The way the USA does things is not the best way; I can't see how it can be the best way for the the USA (but then, I don't live there and I am biased), and it certainly isn't the best way for the rest of the world.

And while I'm on a mild bitch-fest - 'The West', 'Western Democracy', 'Western Culture' etc: 'West' and 'Western' are short hand for Western European. Of which, because of its history of European settlement, the US is a part. The USA is not the progenitor, nor is it the determinant factor in what is considered 'Western'.

The united states is comprised of many countries. We are the melting pot of all countries. So with that comes various ideas thoughts cultures,etc. I know we do not understand all cultures, to do so one has to live in those cultures for a while, in order to get a better understanding. Just the same, I think some countries have no clue about us, because they have never lived here. I think the more we know about each other the better. Sometimes the unknown can cause doubts suspisions and biases. Not everyone feels we have the "best" way. But most people have a national loyalty regardless of where they call home. Because it is home.

Smart lady. I have dual nationality, I'm proud of being both British and Australian and I love both countries, but I also acknowledge that they have some pretty huge faults. And you acknowledge that the USA is not the be-all and end-all, and that not all Americans, let alone all people, think the same way, or should think the same way; it's one of the many reasons why I like you so much. But sadly, a fairly large proportion of Americans I have met/spoken with, do behave as though that is the case; maybe half. It's disheatening, especially because so often it is thoughtless, unreasoned and unconscious - and it's why I love talking to Americans who can think differently.

I think some of that is due to the amount of education, exposure, and traveling some have had or not had. I lived in Germany for 3 and 1/2 years, I went to Poland and the Chech Rep. while there. I loved many people that I had the opportunity to get to know while I was there, and the people from other countries I met while in college. We had hours to talk between classes. I truly felt it was a learning experiance. Also getting to know you and others on this site, reading your blogs, and the blogs of some that were more closed minded, I learn every day. You are a great teacher, maybe we can learn from each other. I enjoy knowing you as well!