Classic Rock votes Perry #1 AOR vocalist

[Michigan Girl]

Don does this better than me, but:
ESCAPE - 10M
FRONTIERS - 6M
ROR - 2M
TBF - 1M

The point I want to make is the band is already on the decline in album-selling popularity from the height of Escape (their best effort...a masterpiece, no throwaway songs out of the bunch).

A lot of people hate ROR and SP's "direction" on it, but I agree with RnD, the times of the mid-80's called for that change in sound. And, even Neal and Jon have said that was the era of synthesizers and drum machines. But, it is easy just to put the blame on SP .
I have read a lot of back reviews over the years, and it seems Euros love ROR more than the American fans.

In all actuality, I am European ...this would explain my absolute love and devotion to ROR!!
It was not the traditional Journey sound, but I enjoyed the change and yes, risk!! Most good bands
do this ...take a risk!! Look at JBJ goin' cuuuuntry, put the blame on mame!!

This Hindu~Infinity crap may be risky, as well!!
Did they steal that from REO?!?!

[Don]

Don does this better than me, but:
ESCAPE - 10M
FRONTIERS - 6M
ROR - 2M
TBF - 1M

The point I want to make is the band is already on the decline in album-selling popularity from the height of Escape (their best effort...a masterpiece, no throwaway songs out of the bunch).

A lot of people hate ROR and SP's "direction" on it, but I agree with RnD, the times of the mid-80's called for that change in sound. And, even Neal and Jon have said that was the era of synthesizers and drum machines. But, it is easy just to put the blame on SP .
I have read a lot of back reviews over the years, and it seems Euros love ROR more than the American fans.

In all actuality, I am European ...this would explain my absolute love and devotion to ROR!!
It was not the traditional Journey sound, but I enjoyed the change and yes, risk!! Most good bands
do this ...take a risk!! Look at JBJ goin' cuuuuntry, put the blame on mame!!

This Hindu~Infinity crap may be risky, as well!!
Did they steal that from REO?!?!

I disagree with this if the band's intention were to still be considered a rock act. Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, and Def Leppard were coming into their own in the mid 80s by relying on the anthem rock that Journey has succeeded with on Frontiers and Escape. If Journey was looking to move into the adult contemporary market, then yes. they were moving in the right direction but as far as the Rock genre was concerned, the band was going the opposite way of everyone else with ROR.

For myself, Journey did not exist anymore once ROR came out. They totally disappeared from Japanese radio and TV, creating a vacuum that Bon Jovi, G&R and Aerosmith instantly filled for Asia's biggest music consumer at that time.

[annie89509]

Don, I'm far from a music expert, by wasn't mid-80's music full of the poppy, Madonna-dance kind of music? Maybe it's not American rock, but popular music of that era were synomous(sp?) with the kind of sound we hear from ROR.

[Don]

Don, I'm far from a music expert, by wasn't mid-80's music full of the poppy, Madonna-dance kind of music? Maybe it's not American rock, but popular music of that era were synomous(sp?) with the kind of sound we hear from ROR.

Yes, it was but the majority of Rock music that was hitting the scene was coming from the hair bands. If Journey wanted to be a pop act, then ROR was the right album for them but I think the argument was, their success would have dwindled if they stayed with the harder rock albums. The huge success of Bon Jovi, Aersomith, White Snake Def Leppard, Cinderella, Twisted Sister, Night Ranger, Dokken, White Lion and so many others proved that wrong. From 1985 to the beginning of 1990, Rock music was were the money was, not adult contemporary were Journey was tampering with.

[annie89509]

Don, I'm far from a music expert, by wasn't mid-80's music full of the poppy, Madonna-dance kind of music? Maybe it's not American rock, but popular music of that era were synomous(sp?) with the kind of sound we hear from ROR.

Yes, it was but the majority of Rock music that was hitting the scene was coming from the hair bands. If Journey wanted to be a pop act, then ROR was the right album for them but I think the argument was, their success would have dwindled if they stayed with the harder rock albums. The huge success of Bon Jovi, Aersomith, White Snake Def Leppard, Cinderella, Twisted Sister, Night Ranger, Dokken, White Lion and so many others proved that wrong. From 1985 to the beginning of 1990, Rock music was were the money was, not adult contemporary were Journey was tampering with.

yes, I see what you're saying. I guess the counter-argument to that is Journey simply is(was) not the kind of band (as those listed above--majority of whom I can't tell you a song they've done--but that's just me).

Maybe it does come down to SP--after all. He wanted the band to evolve...he wanted to sing different songs. And a lot of us do love ROR. I also can vouch reading a lot of favorable reviews from European media...ranking the album 2nd only to Escape.

[Michigan Girl]

Don does this better than me, but:
ESCAPE - 10M
FRONTIERS - 6M
ROR - 2M
TBF - 1M

The point I want to make is the band is already on the decline in album-selling popularity from the height of Escape (their best effort...a masterpiece, no throwaway songs out of the bunch).

A lot of people hate ROR and SP's "direction" on it, but I agree with RnD, the times of the mid-80's called for that change in sound. And, even Neal and Jon have said that was the era of synthesizers and drum machines. But, it is easy just to put the blame on SP .
I have read a lot of back reviews over the years, and it seems Euros love ROR more than the American fans.

In all actuality, I am European ...this would explain my absolute love and devotion to ROR!!
It was not the traditional Journey sound, but I enjoyed the change and yes, risk!! Most good bands
do this ...take a risk!! Look at JBJ goin' cuuuuntry, put the blame on mame!!

This Hindu~Infinity crap may be risky, as well!!
Did they steal that from REO?!?!

I disagree with this if the band's intention were to still be considered a rock act. Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, and Def Leppard were coming into their own in the mid 80s by relying on the anthem rock that Journey has succeeded with on Frontiers and Escape. If Journey was looking to move into the adult contemporary market, then yes. they were moving in the right direction but as far as the Rock genre was concerned, the band was going the opposite way of everyone else with ROR.

For myself, Journey did not exist anymore once ROR came out. They totally disappeared from Japanese radio and TV, creating a vacuum that Bon Jovi, G&R and Aerosmith instantly filled for Asia's biggest music consumer at that time.

I understand what you're saying, somewhat, but
you're making it sound like it had to be/or was a permanent change...why couldn't they have made this LP and
then gone back to good ol' rock ...other's have done it, sort of isolating themselves from their traditional fan base
and then jumping right back in. Are you saying it would've been impossible at that particular time?!? It was a balsy
move for sure ...I just happened to really like it!!

[portland]

Don, I'm far from a music expert, by wasn't mid-80's music full of the poppy, Madonna-dance kind of music? Maybe it's not American rock, but popular music of that era were synomous(sp?) with the kind of sound we hear from ROR.

Yes, it was but the majority of Rock music that was hitting the scene was coming from the hair bands. If Journey wanted to be a pop act, then ROR was the right album for them but I think the argument was, their success would have dwindled if they stayed with the harder rock albums. The huge success of Bon Jovi, Aersomith, White Snake Def Leppard, Cinderella, Twisted Sister, Night Ranger, Dokken, White Lion and so many others proved that wrong. From 1985 to the beginning of 1990, Rock music was were the money was, not adult contemporary were Journey was tampering with.

Journey was different from the list you have here some of the above listed.....there was more to the vocals.


I get what you are saying....but I think that Perry knew he could sing "more" than the average lead singer of a 80's hairband.


Right or wrong....I love ROR....it was a mix of POP and Rock...for me it was not a bad thing...Suzanne is one of my favorites.

[Saint John]

I disagree with this if the band's intention were to still be considered a rock act. Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, and Def Leppard were coming into their own in the mid 80s by relying on the anthem rock that Journey has succeeded with on Frontiers and Escape.

Bingo. I think you inadvertently brought up a tremendous point. Journey helped create/co-create this wildly popular AOR sound, and abandoned it at the apex of the scene because their singer wanted to revert to a tired, old 60's and 70's rehashed sound. He didn't take any chance. He mailed it in for something he was more comfortable with and the band was never the same. But he didn't stop there. He took the remnants of that old, tired, rehashed garbage to a record label right after he declared himself "toast" and was promptly told to take that shit (Against The Wall) and go throw it in the fucking ocean. Not one to be denied, he tried again in 1994 (FTLOSM) and failed again. He tried it again in 1996 with a little bit more "journey" to it ... and failed again! Perry and Journey defined AOR and until he gets it through his head that people want to hear him sing that type of music, he will continue to fail. Or stay retired.

[Michigan Girl]

Journey, admittedly, didn't want Perry to begin with ...took the risk and
changed their sound tremendously, once the final decision was made for them!!
Regardless of who made the ROR decision, I can certainly understand Neal & Co.,
willingly dropping their balls in a jar ...RISK, is what they
were all about ...after all, the guy was only leading them skyward!!
Some of you didn't like it ...some of us loved it!! So it wasn't
Escape or Frontiers ...did you expect all of them to be?!?

[Saint John]

after all, the guy was only leading them skyward!!

The guy that "led them skyward" was Herbie Herbert. The guy that wrestled control away from Herbie, and assumed every facet of Journey from musical direction, to firing members, to ditching the original cover art and title for ROR was someone else. That someone else took a juggernaut and minced it into a shit heap of faggy music, long layoffs, stalled tours and canceled tours. "Journey" was essentially dead from 1985-2007, because of bad decisions by a few members and management, but it all started in 1985. This band has never been the same since Herbie had control snatched from him. Gay albums, shortened and aborted tours, lip synching and all types of other terrible decisions.

[RedWingFan]

after all, the guy was only leading them skyward!!

The guy that "led them skyward" was Herbie Herbert. The guy that wrestled control away from Herbie, and assumed every facet of Journey from musical direction, to firing members, to ditching the original cover art and title for ROR was someone else. That someone else took a juggernaut and minced it into a shit heap of faggy music, long layoffs, stalled tours and canceled tours. "Journey" was essentially dead from 1985-2007, because of bad decisions by a few members and management, but it all started in 1985. This band has never been the same since Herbie had control snatched from him. Gay albums, shortened and aborted tours, lip synching and all types of other terrible decisions.

Herbie was also the guy leading them for the first 3 albums, which were so great the record label told him he better pull a miracle out of his ass if he wanted to stay with the label. Then what did he do SJ?

He made the move that put Journey on the map and to record the songs that you take trips to see played 30 years later.

If Herbie is the key to selling millions of records what's to keep Neil's band from putting him back in power? HMMMM????

[portland]

after all, the guy was only leading them skyward!!

The guy that "led them skyward" was Herbie Herbert. The guy that wrestled control away from Herbie, and assumed every facet of Journey from musical direction, to firing members, to ditching the original cover art and title for ROR was someone else. That someone else took a juggernaut and minced it into a shit heap of faggy music, long layoffs, stalled tours and canceled tours. "Journey" was essentially dead from 1985-2007, because of bad decisions by a few members and management, but it all started in 1985. This band has never been the same since Herbie had control snatched from him. Gay albums, shortened and aborted tours, lip synching and all types of other terrible decisions.

Dan....forgive me....but...kindly shut up.

Thank you.

[Michigan Girl]

after all, the guy was only leading them skyward!!

The guy that "led them skyward" was Herbie Herbert. The guy that wrestled control away from Herbie, and assumed every facet of Journey from musical direction, to firing members, to ditching the original cover art and title for ROR was someone else. That someone else took a juggernaut and minced it into a shit heap of faggy music, long layoffs, stalled tours and canceled tours. "Journey" was essentially dead from 1985-2007, because of bad decisions by a few members and management, but it all started in 1985. This band has never been the same since Herbie had control snatched from him. Gay albums, shortened and aborted tours, lip synching and all types of other terrible decisions.

Kudos to Herbie for having the good sense to recognize, arguably, the best voice in R&R!!
Kudos to Steve Perry for having, arguably, the best voice in RNR!! Kudos to Herbie for
plucking him from a lifetime of turkey trimming tomorrows …kudos to Steve for being plucked
and for making such an impression on us, that still today we debate …was he a great guy who
helped lift a band from obscurity?!?, or was he an asshole that literally destroyed said band?!?

[steveo777]

after all, the guy was only leading them skyward!!

The guy that "led them skyward" was Herbie Herbert. The guy that wrestled control away from Herbie, and assumed every facet of Journey from musical direction, to firing members, to ditching the original cover art and title for ROR was someone else. That someone else took a juggernaut and minced it into a shit heap of faggy music, long layoffs, stalled tours and canceled tours. "Journey" was essentially dead from 1985-2007, because of bad decisions by a few members and management, but it all started in 1985. This band has never been the same since Herbie had control snatched from him. Gay albums, shortened and aborted tours, lip synching and all types of other terrible decisions.

Herbie was also the guy leading them for the first 3 albums, which were so great the record label told him he better pull a miracle out of his ass if he wanted to stay with the label. Then what did he do SJ?

He made the move that put Journey on the map and to record the songs that you take trips to see played 30 years later.

If Herbie is the key to selling millions of records what's to keep Neil's band from putting him back in power? HMMMM????

Would it be possible for you to spell Neal correctly?

[Michigan Girl]

after all, the guy was only leading them skyward!!

The guy that "led them skyward" was Herbie Herbert. The guy that wrestled control away from Herbie, and assumed every facet of Journey from musical direction, to firing members, to ditching the original cover art and title for ROR was someone else. That someone else took a juggernaut and minced it into a shit heap of faggy music, long layoffs, stalled tours and canceled tours. "Journey" was essentially dead from 1985-2007, because of bad decisions by a few members and management, but it all started in 1985. This band has never been the same since Herbie had control snatched from him. Gay albums, shortened and aborted tours, lip synching and all types of other terrible decisions.

Herbie was also the guy leading them for the first 3 albums, which were so great the record label told him he better pull a miracle out of his ass if he wanted to stay with the label. Then what did he do SJ?

He made the move that put Journey on the map and to record the songs that you take trips to see played 30 years later.

If Herbie is the key to selling millions of records what's to keep Neil's band from putting him back in power? HMMMM????

Would it be possible for you to spell Neal correctly?

NO ...he's making a point and it makes me LMAO!!
Back off bucko!!

[Saint John]

Herbie was also the guy leading them for the first 3 albums, which were so great the record label told him he better pull a miracle out of his ass if he wanted to stay with the label. Then what did he do SJ?

He made the move that put Journey on the map and to record the songs that you take trips to see played 30 years later.

Herbie Herbert went and snagged Perry from a turkey ranch. Perry had given up and quit (something he'd become really good at again, later on). Herbie believed in the guy when he had given up believing in himself! Music was evolving and Herbie evolved right along with it. He fought for Perry to be in the band. And there is really no denying that Herbie had control wrestled away from him in 1985 and that all of the ensuing decisions were terrible.

If Herbie is the key to selling millions of records what's to keep Neil's band from putting him back in power? HMMMM????

Perry canned him and he retired for good in about 2002 I believe.

[DracIsBack]

The numbers are the numbers. As of last count in the U.S., the package had moved about 800,000 units and was well over a million worldwide. Considering that doubles what the lineup with Augeri did in 10 years, it is definitely an uptick.

I'm on the side of "it's not a direct comparison".

Remove:
- The bundled greatest hits package;
- Remove the live DVD of greatest hits;
- Sell it at the same price

How many does the album move then?

To me, the real test with this line-up is how well it does with the next album.

[Saint John]

Remove:
- The bundled greatest hits package;
- Remove the live DVD of greatest hits;
- Sell it at the same price

How many does the album move then?

Same amount. The fact that they put a picture of an Asian guy on the back and the package had a sticker on it that said something like "the first album with new lead singer Arnel Pineda" tells me that buyers knew what they were getting. But the excuses are always fun to see! It was all gloom and doom prior to the album and now it's every excuse under the sun ... such as, the package gave the consumer too much for their money, the re-records are what sold it, each Pinoy bought 345.8 copies and all Wal Mart exclusives sell like that.

To me, the real test with this line-up is how well it does with the next album.

This one will sell more.

[steveo777]

Remove:
- The bundled greatest hits package;
- Remove the live DVD of greatest hits;
- Sell it at the same price

How many does the album move then?

Same amount. The fact that they put a picture of an Asian guy on the back and the package had a sticker on it that said something like "the first album with new lead singer Arnel Pineda" tells me that buyers knew what they were getting. But the excuses are always fun to see! It was all gloom and doom prior to the album and now it's every excuse under the sun ... such as, the package gave the consumer too much for their money, the re-records are what sold it, each Pinoy bought 345.8 copies and all Wal Mart exclusives sell like that.

To me, the real test with this line-up is how well it does with the next album.

This one will sell more.

This is the album where Arnel becomes an integral part of the band with songs tailored to him, which he had participation in. I don't doubt that this will be a major boon to the band.

[Don]

They need to sell one million copies to get close to Revelation's success. This, in a market that is eroding every month to the point where selling 1,000 units in one week gets you onto the Billboard 200 chart.

I'm game . Countdown to platinum starts when?

[Saint John]

They need to sell one million copies to get close to Revelation's success. This, in a market that is eroding every month to the point where selling 1,000 units in one week gets you onto the Billboard 200 chart.

I'm game . Countdown to platinum starts when?

I think the album release date is mid-April. Yeah, it's gonna be tough. No doubt about it. The album is going to be a vast departure from anything done before. It's gonna rock a lot harder. Should be a top 3-5 debut.

[Don]

They need to sell one million copies to get close to Revelation's success. This, in a market that is eroding every month to the point where selling 1,000 units in one week gets you onto the Billboard 200 chart.

I'm game . Countdown to platinum starts when?

I think the album release date is mid-April. Yeah, it's gonna be tough. No doubt about it. The album is going to be a vast departure from anything done before. It's gonna rock a lot harder. Should be a top 3-5 debut.

If it sells 50k its first week, it should be a top 5 debut. If it sells what Rev debuted with, it should be number one, barring some rapper having a major release that same week.

[Michigan Girl]

Unfortunately, or fortunately ...depending on who you are, the only thing that determines
success of an LP, for me, is whether I like it?!?! If sales mattered, I'd halfway be lovin'
Revelation ...

[Saint John]

Unfortunately, or fortunately ...depending on who you are, the only thing that determines
success of an LP, for me, is whether I like it?!?! If sales mattered, I'd halfway be lovin'
Revelation ...

Fair enough. But for posturing and cock-waving purposes, we have to use to something to measure "success" with!

[Don]

So, will Journey go the Wal-Mart route again and leave the iTune market for Sony or better yet, will Revelation be broken out of its exclusivity pergatory and be allowed on Apple's music service?

[steveo777]

Unfortunately, or fortunately ...depending on who you are, the only thing that determines
success of an LP, for me, is whether I like it?!?! If sales mattered, I'd halfway be lovin'
Revelation ...

Revelation sold very well, considering that it was all written before Arnel came on board. I'm looking foward to hearing the new album. I hope it's good. Voice will be fine, albeit there might be a slight accent. LOL ..Supposedly they have been working on this. Recent YouTube clips indicate that his training is not complete yet. But it should be a fresh sound with AP's participation in the process. If it's good music it will sell just fine.

[Don]

Prepping Pirate Bay torrent upload now. The only way to really tell how well an album has been recieved is by how many times it gets downloaded illegally.

[Saint John]

So, will Journey go the Wal-Mart route again and leave the iTune market for Sony or better yet, will Revelation be broken out of its exclusivity pergatory and be allowed on Apple's music service?

My vote is the Wal Mart route. But I hope they don't fuck it up like they did last time. Get it in all stores and have it fully stocked on the day of its release.

[steveo777]

Prepping Pirate Bay torrent upload now. The only way to really tell how well an album has been recieved is by how many times it gets downloaded illegally.

Speaking of, I read somewhere that the US Govt. has taken control of the Bit Torrent domain. Risky? I have refrained from downloading anything lately...too paranoid.

[Don]

Prepping Pirate Bay torrent upload now. The only way to really tell how well an album has been recieved is by how many times it gets downloaded illegally.

Speaking of, I read somewhere that the US Govt. has taken control of the Bit Torrent domain. Risky? I have refrained from downloading anything lately...too paranoid.

Don't be. If someone is dumb enough to host a site in the US or UK, it's their own fault.