Recent even

[MartyMoffatt]

Ye Gods, this is getting more juvenile than a school playground. "You're JEALOUS, Na Na Na-Na Na!"

If you take away all the bluster in this thread, I can see nothing in Monker's or Fred's or Maria's posts that indicate any jealosy, yet the rest of you seem hell-bent on a witchunt that is out of all proportion to the original post.

And Andrew, you're not helping as it seems the only person you take exception to, ever, is Monker. Now I don't always agree with everything he says, and he doesn't agree with everything Fred says, but collectively you all seem to have singled the two of them out for brow-beating. Is there some history here that extends beyong this thread?

Marty

[Andrew]

Andrew, it is because JSS and Ross decided, on their day off, to attend AR's party, and that got some in a tizzy.

I know....but I still get disappointed to see positves spun into negatives by some.

I know Andrew, and that is why I got so mad and threw out a couple of f-bombs and shouting. I apologize for that if that made you mad at me.

Not at all, you have been around a long time and I appreciate your contributions to the forum.

[RPM]

"Is there some history here that extends beyong this thread?"

Of course there is Marty, Andrew didnt just read this thread and say"Monker is a negative
cancer" hes been this way for longgg time....

[Andrew]

And Andrew, you're not helping as it seems the only person you take exception to, ever, is Monker. Now I don't always agree with everything he says, and he doesn't agree with everything Fred says, but collectively you all seem to have singled the two of them out for brow-beating. Is there some history here that extends beyong this thread?

Hi Marty,
I haven't pulled Fred up on anything...as for Monker...it just gets boring, that's all. Just looking to him for a POSITIVE thread/post. When that arrives I think we will all be relieved. The boy might bust a blood vessel...all those bad vibes aren't good for you!

[somethingtohide]

Andrew, it is because JSS and Ross decided, on their day off, to attend AR's party, and that got some in a tizzy.

And I actually would have prefered to make it TOTALLY PRIVATE. Just a thank you for some people I have met, who happen to be musicians, that have been nice to me. However they were cool with it being open, and the point of communities like this is to SHARE.

I just got a PM from a newbie who says I am bragging a lot about the party. I'd really like to know where I have done that. The only thing I have done is express how much fun it was, and that I was glad everyone had a good time.

Even though I wasn't at the party I appreciate being able to be part of the fun through the posts and photos that you and the partygoers shared. It didn't look like bragging to me. It just looked like people having a good time.

I hope all this after-party furor doesn't bring you down.

[Liz22562]

I have been posting on and off in this forum for a few years now. I've never seen Monker's post as negative or whiney - more like playing devils advocate, which I personally believe helps to keep this board balanced. I also know from the length of time that I've participated here that there are several members (Monker & TNC to name a couple) that have a decent knowledge of Journey's history and I respect their posts (when sticking to the subject matter at hand, of course)..

I do believe some of you are not taking Monker's post as intended and I seriously doubt he, Fred, MCC, Marty, Citygirl and anyone else that is inclined to side, believe, understand, (insert your word of choice here) etc. what Monker initially posted is REMOTELY jealous of any Journey member attending anyone's party. It's more like the actions of the band that just make no sense whatsoever.

I also agree that what the Journey boys do on their personal time is absolutely no business of mine or anyone elses but it sure is confusing to see after the ugliness that was posted on here for MONTHS because of the tapegate scenario and everything that was involved in that.

Journey On people.....but understand posts as they were intended instead of going off in left field because not everyone wants to take sides. Individuality is an amazing thing. Embrace it instead of wanting everyone to believe in your way or the highway.

Peace to all.

[Andrew]

I have been posting on and off in this forum for a few years now. I've never seen Monker's post as negative or whiney.

Fair point/post. But my point is when was the last time he said someting positive. Opnely supportive of anything going on within the Journey camp? Or on the topic of this board? I don't recall aything EVER being posted that was a 'happy' or 'openly positve' thought.

Now, that said, I don't ever expect or wish for all posts to be of that ilk. I openly encourage debate and both positive topics and those that question what's right etc...

But I'd like to see a balance and Monker is famous for his dislike of how this forum is run, how the Journey machine runs and whatever else...to be frank, I am bored of that approach from him, as are many others.

[Moon Beam]

Ok, time to get on the merr-go-round...

What happened in that "Where's the love?" thread just makes me laugh. You guys TOTALY ignored the point...so I'm going to rephrase it my way.

During this ENTIRE tour, Journey has all but ignored the ILAA after concert events. That's a fact, whether you want to admit it or not. During this ENTIRE tour, Journey has all but ignored any fan gatherings and it seems they always have an open invitation to attend. That's also a fact, whether you want to admit it or not.

So, if you are a fan who paid 5-10 times the ticket price for ILAA, the band ignored you. If you are a fan who put together an after show gathering, the band ignored you. As I have said for a while now. the band is about making money - not about the fans any longer. The above is all evidence of it...whether you want to admit it or not. The band is very happy to take your money, but very reluctant to give you any attention.

So, now we come to this latest party with JSS and Ross. I HIGHLY doubt that these people bought a ILAA pass, LOL - too funny. It seems for whatever reason, this party was just a bit more irresistable then the others on the tour that they passed on. Maybe it was the people involved, maybe it was the timing, maybe it was the location. Who cares what it was?

Monker what I quoted is as far as I made it
in your post before deciding that this 8 page
lug-nut was going to entail mud slings galore.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna have a couple
shots of vodka before I tackle this bad boy.

At the end of it all when I'm done reading I hope
I don't have the urge to spit on you, that's always
a possibility though.

[Matthew]

I have been posting on and off in this forum for a few years now. I've never seen Monker's post as negative or whiney - more like playing devils advocate, which I personally believe helps to keep this board balanced. I also know from the length of time that I've participated here that there are several members (Monker & TNC to name a couple) that have a decent knowledge of Journey's history and I respect their posts (when sticking to the subject matter at hand, of course)..

I do believe some of you are not taking Monker's post as intended and I seriously doubt he, Fred, MCC, Marty, Citygirl and anyone else that is inclined to side, believe, understand, (insert your word of choice here) etc. what Monker initially posted is REMOTELY jealous of any Journey member attending anyone's party. It's more like the actions of the band that just make no sense whatsoever.

I also agree that what the Journey boys do on their personal time is absolutely no business of mine or anyone elses but it sure is confusing to see after the ugliness that was posted on here for MONTHS because of the tapegate scenario and everything that was involved in that.

Journey On people.....but understand posts as they were intended instead of going off in left field because not everyone wants to take sides. Individuality is an amazing thing. Embrace it instead of wanting everyone to believe in your way or the highway.

Peace to all.

Good post, Liz...and I have to say that most Monker's critcisms of Journey and the various 'reality checks' he delivers seem entirely reasonable to me too.

[fred_journeyman]

Fair point/post. But my point is when was the last time he said someting positive. Opnely supportive of anything going on within the Journey camp? Or on the topic of this board? I don't recall aything EVER being posted that was a 'happy' or 'openly positve' thought.

Now, that said, I don't ever expect or wish for all posts to be of that ilk. I openly encourage debate and both positive topics and those that question what's right etc...

But I'd like to see a balance and Monker is famous for his dislike of how this forum is run, how the Journey machine runs and whatever else...to be frank, I am bored of that approach from him, as are many others.

Andrew,

With all due respect, I have been reading Monker's posts for YEARS (and maybe you have too), but I have ALWAYS seen his posts to be informative and straightforward. He rarely uses "cute" language to make his posts more acceptable. I think it is largely BECAUSE of the way he posts that his posts are often seen as "negative."

If you look at it honestly Andrew, the only real people who were whining in some of the threads where Monker posted were the people who were OPPOSED to his post. I honestly think it is largely due to the fact that they simply shoot from the hip without really understanding what he is saying. "Oh, it's Monker, Mr. Negative again. He's wrong...he's an ass..he's a (fill in the blank)" and they go to town and then before you know it, an idea is repeated enough times ("You're jealous Monker!") that it is simply accepted as fact and the entire point of his post is forgotten or ignored.

As I said, I've been reading his posts for years, and I haven't seen a great variance in the way he posts during that time. Frankly, I'm glad he's here and posting the way he does because it's much more refreshing than a lot of what's posted here. His posts give me pause to think.

Just my opinion. Thanks for reading, Andrew. Not trying to make waves. I just wish people would truly listen to what Monker had to say. Whether he's right, or not isn't the point. He has something interesting to say.

[Saint John]

...The way I see it, you now stay on this board not be constructive or constructively critical, but rather a whining, fly in the ointment pain in the ass. Like Monker, your life on this board ( and perhaps off of it too) revolves around negativity.

You're right, there are a ton of people on this board who are so blinded by their desire to be part of the "in" crowd that they'll say anything even when it makes no sense (like your posts, for example).

Anything else?

Name 1 thing that I've said that doesn't make sense. I've pointed out several stupid things that you have said. As have other people. As far as me trying to be part of the "in crowd"...nothing could be further from the truth. I have not met ONE person from this site (I'd like to), though I do PM a few. Regardless, your post , as has become custom, is just another feeble attempt to deviate from the facts/argument. Please take your ball and go home, like you threatened to do a few weeks back. That, more than anything, showcased your adolescent temperament. You will not be missed. While this isn't a cheering section for Journey, it isn't a place exclusively reserved for pissing and moaning either. Pack your shit and hit the road crybaby.

[Andrew]

Just my opinion. Thanks for reading, Andrew. Not trying to make waves. I just wish people would truly listen to what Monker had to say. Whether he's right, or not isn't the point. He has something interesting to say.

No waves made. Like I said, happy to read opposing opinions, I just get tired of Monker as most of his posts during 2006 have been ones bitching to me about one thing or another.
My tolerance level has been exceeded, so I will refrain from reading his posts from this moment forward.

[fred_journeyman]

Name 1 thing that I've said that doesn't make sense.

Just one?

I've pointed out several stupid things that you have said. As have other people.

And I'm accused of being arrogant and having a superiority complex...

As far as me trying to be part of the "in crowd"...nothing could be further from the truth. I have not met ONE person from this site (I'd like to), though I do PM a few.

John, it is difficult for me to believe that you are teacher (your very first post to me took me to task for not being able to discern the context of a post) and yet you fail to understand my points. Nowhere did I SAY or IMPLY that you have met anyone. What does actually MEETING anyone have to do with wanting to be in the "in" crowd on this board? Answer: it doesn't.

Regardless, your post , as has become custom, is just another feeble attempt to deviate from the facts/argument.

On the contrary John, you and a number of people like you do that. I prefer to deal with the matter at hand, head on. But you would prefer to call me all types of names like a little 8 year-old running around the school yard. You consistently show me a LACK of restraint and intelligence and yet you persist in wanting me to point out things to you and enter into meaningful dialogue. For what purpose? You would either NOT "get them," or you go off on another tangent, which has nothing to do with the real reason that this thread was started. In short, there is NO meaningful dialogue with you, because you are incapable of it. If someone doesn't agree with you, you go off on them and show your true colors. You probably do that to the poor kids in your class as well.

Please take your ball and go home, like you threatened to do a few weeks back. That, more than anything, showcased your adolescent temperament. You will not be missed. While this isn't a cheering section for Journey, it isn't a place exclusively reserved for pissing and moaning either. Pack your shit and hit the road crybaby.

You are an intellectual void. You write as if telling me to go anyplace is going to make that happen. John, I know you're trying to impress not only yourself, but others who might have the optimism within to think that you somehow have something going for yourself under the "hood," but it is so patently obvious that you are trying so hard, that not only do you come up woefully short, but you are simply left looking absurd.

Now, why don't YOU take your arrogance and superiority complex and beat someone else with it; someone who actually might shiver when you speak to them because they mistakenly believe your gibberish to be thoughful eloquence. As for me, it's all I can do to not laugh out loud at you, because you are quite the joke. There is not one iota of intelligence within you that I have been able to detect...and believe me, I've been trying.

[fred_journeyman]

No waves made.

Thank you.

[rsimpson]

Fred, I'm following ur lead & posting whatever I want to. The only difference is I don't make things up, argue w/every single person who posts here, & come off sounding like an idiot ALL the time.

maybe not all the time

[ArnelRox]

Fred, I'm following ur lead & posting whatever I want to. The only difference is I don't make things up, argue w/every single person who posts here, & come off sounding like an idiot ALL the time.

maybe not all the time

That is WHAT I said. Who asked u?

[A Fire Inside]

I have many comments on this thread already and I haven't yet read very far into it...

I personally don't know Monker from Adam, I have never talked to him in private, but I have seen his posts for many years and I don't believe for a minute that he is jealous. You don't have to be on a side to play devil's advocate or understand where someone is coming from.

The bottom line is: If I had bought an ILAA pass, I'd be pissed. If I had put together an after show party, I'd be pissed. Not out of 'jealousy', or envy, or whatever...but because this band ignores the fans who have over and over again showed the love and have put out HUNDREDS of dollars per tour on passes, or thrown put together the same type of parties in their honor. Instead they spend their time with those who continously bash, insult, threaten, wished they would die, etc...their actions simply adds injury to the insults.

I think this is very true... members of the band would rather go to a MR party than walk 20 yards backstage to spend more than 10 minutes with ILAA. It's insulting to the people who lined their pockets just for a small chance of seeing them in person that they would rather attend that party.

However I think St John has a good point:

My best guess is that Ross and JSS sensed that they could show up, chill, talk and meet some new people. They probably felt that it WOULDN'T be the usual knee-knocking, teary-eyed, obsessive fans that want 50 autographs and 10 pictures each. This was a time they could go TO a party, not BE the party. I'm sure there was a general excitement when they showed up, but I'm ALSO sure that it was very atypical of what they're accustomed to. Instead of "Can you sign this" and "Oh my God, you're my idol" it was probably "Can I get you a beer or something to eat?"

This IS probably what keeps them away from BT parties, ILAA, etc. They want to be away from the "teenyboppers". Unfortunately a celebrity that shuns a certain faction of his fans is not making a good choice. They know these people will pay out the ass for just that small chance (and they take advantage of it) but they continually pay very little respect to those fans.

Until BTers and anyone else who buys ILAA comes to their senses and stops throwing down that kind of money, nothing's going to change and the band will continue gladly raking it in while pouring another shot of vodka at some MR member's house. ILAA buyers bring it upon themselves, and it should not be that way, but Journey is greedy and life ain't fair...

[Clasicrockldy]

Fire, just for your info, the MR party was the night before the concert. Journey didn't appear at any pre-show parties the day of the concert. Now if they did meet and greets plus ILAA at Balitmore, I don't know. i wasn't there.

[A Fire Inside]

Get a freaking clue. They are a BAND. They are not ur buddies. They put on a show, u pay to see it. That is it. This is their job. U get entertained. They are not here to care how u feel or how u don't.

ABSOLUTELY!!

The only thing IMO about the Baltimore bash is how the attendees are bragging about it... I couldn't care less if the entire band showed up... keep the "I'm BFF with Jeff and you're jealous" BS to a minimum... if I threw a party I would not expect any of them and I would not pretend that we are good friends unless they told me so, cause like JRox says, it is not their obligation to show up outside of a venue, and when they do it it's their choice.

I do, however, think it should be a little more of an obligation for them to show up to ILAA because those people paid hoping to see them. Parties are free. ILAA is not.

[A Fire Inside]

Fire, just for your info, the MR party was the night before the concert. Journey didn't appear at any pre-show parties the day of the concert. Now if they did meet and greets plus ILAA at Balitmore, I don't know. i wasn't there.

Yes, I know. I would be interested to know if they did show up to ILAA in Baltimore and for how long...

[A Fire Inside]

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN. I SAID THEY DID NOT NEED AN INVITATION TO ATTEND THE HARD ROCK PARTY BECAUSE IT WAS ON THEIR OFFICIAL DIXIE HIGHWWAY SITE. AGAIN YOU TWISTED THE COMMENT TO BE ABOUT SOUR GRAPES. HOW ABOUT YOU GO INTO YOUR SEX AND BOOZE THREAD AND GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

You honestly expect them to show up at a party just because it was posted in DH?

From what I've gathered, AR/Dean extended a personal invitation to Jeff to attend this party. If you had done the same and been rejected, your argument might be more solid. Instead you just hoped they would see a thread about it. I bet Jeff doesn't even read this board that thorougly.

[Clasicrockldy]

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN. I SAID THEY DID NOT NEED AN INVITATION TO ATTEND THE HARD ROCK PARTY BECAUSE IT WAS ON THEIR OFFICIAL DIXIE HIGHWWAY SITE. AGAIN YOU TWISTED THE COMMENT TO BE ABOUT SOUR GRAPES. HOW ABOUT YOU GO INTO YOUR SEX AND BOOZE THREAD AND GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

You honestly expect them to show up at a party just because it was posted in DH?

From what I've gathered, AR/Dean extended a personal invitation to Jeff to attend this party. If you had done the same and been rejected, your argument might be more solid. Instead you just hoped they would see a thread about it. I bet Jeff doesn't even read this board that thorougly.

It was an open invitation for MR members to gather at a party, if they could come, and meet each other in person. I believe there might of been an invite extended to the band, but I can't remember (CRS again !). Anyway, JSS and Ross did attend, on their off time, and it put some people in a tizzy. This thread is an offshoot of one that Fyre Wyngz started about why did JSS and Ross attend the party. I know you haven't been around in a few days, Fire, so there is lots to read, if you want to read it.

[A Fire Inside]

Those who fail to grasp this have obviously never met someone they admired.
That, or it's just sour grapes that they didn't get an invite.

Bingo. But there was an open invitation, so no one can be blamed for anything here. Wy people search for negativity when there is so much positive right there in front of them is beyond me...

Not exactly... the people that are complaining seem to be doing so because they are the ones MR-ers have called "fat hippos" etc. and many MR-ers have continually torn down Augeri... then the band appears to validate these opinions by paying a visit to their private party. I can't say I can blame MCC and others for being offended.

But as I said, on the other hand, they aren't obligated to attend anyone's pre-show function.

[A Fire Inside]

I believe there might of been an invite extended to the band, but I can't remember (CRS again !). Anyway, JSS and Ross did attend, on their off time, and it put some people in a tizzy. This thread is an offshoot of one that Fyre Wyngz started about why did JSS and Ross attend the party. I know you haven't been around in a few days, Fire, so there is lots to read, if you want to read it.

Yes, yes, I read Fyre's. My point is, I would bet Dean or someone else PM'd Jeff somewhere along the line and personally extended the invitation to Baltimore. This is where MCC went wrong IMO. She expected them to read a thread on DH... she could have PM'd Jeff here to get the message through or had CJ forward an email.

[Clasicrockldy]

I believe there might of been an invite extended to the band, but I can't remember (CRS again !). Anyway, JSS and Ross did attend, on their off time, and it put some people in a tizzy. This thread is an offshoot of one that Fyre Wyngz started about why did JSS and Ross attend the party. I know you haven't been around in a few days, Fire, so there is lots to read, if you want to read it.

Yes, yes, I read Fyre's. My point is, I would bet Dean or someone else PM'd Jeff somewhere along the line and personally extended the invitation to Baltimore. This is where MCC went wrong IMO. She expected them to read a thread on DH... she could have PM'd Jeff here to get the message through or had CJ forward an email.

That is true, Fire, she could of, but it didn't happen that way. Live and learn. So tell me, how many more pages this topic might go?

[A Fire Inside]

That is true, Fire, she could of, but it didn't happen that way. Live and learn. So tell me, how many more pages this topic might go?

Well, I'M done, I read it all.

[Clasicrockldy]

That is true, Fire, she could of, but it didn't happen that way. Live and learn. So tell me, how many more pages this topic might go?

Well, I'M done, I read it all.

Ok Fire. I am done with it too, for tonite. Heaven knows what will happen here tomorrow !

[Rockindeano]

Too funny.

Just walked in the door and my friend, Cyndypoon IM'ed me and said "wow, some party, huh? I just got done reading 8 pages of drama."


Ed, can you imagine what these people would be saying and acting like had Neal and Deen actually showed up, like they were planning to? I am loving this.

Continue, please.

[Andrew]

I do, however, think it should be a little more of an obligation for them to show up to ILAA because those people paid hoping to see them. Parties are free. ILAA is not.

But they have turned up to these functions. Maybe not all, maybe not enough, maybe enough...but stating that they haven't been to any is factually incorrect and unfair.

[donnaplease]

Those who fail to grasp this have obviously never met someone they admired.
That, or it's just sour grapes that they didn't get an invite.

Bingo. But there was an open invitation, so no one can be blamed for anything here. Wy people search for negativity when there is so much positive right there in front of them is beyond me...

Not exactly... the people that are complaining seem to be doing so because they are the ones MR-ers have called "fat hippos" etc. and many MR-ers have continually torn down Augeri... then the band appears to validate these opinions by paying a visit to their private party. I can't say I can blame MCC and others for being offended.

But as I said, on the other hand, they aren't obligated to attend anyone's pre-show function.

I have never done either of those things...