Poll:What do you want from Steve Perry?

[NoMoreTails]

Just curious,NMT...Why don't you like ROR?
Is it that bad,or is your opinion influenced by the stories behind the album?

Maybe you've explained it before,but I can't remember or maybe I wasn't around when you did..

So if you have time for this now,can you post ,say...3 solid reasons why ROR is a bad album?

I feel that it is more a Perry solo album with Neal and Jon as guests than it is a Journey album.
I think Perry did a pretty good job producing other stuff but shouldn't have produced Journey as he had too much control over the songs, sound, players.
It is a pop album with one rocking song (BGTY) and a silly song (ROR) as the only other attempting to rock.
Has no "hard rock" (for Journey) songs. The other albums to that point had a good balance between ballad/rockers/pop.
Doesn't have a rock drummer (of course Smitty was a jazz drummer who could rock).
No truly guitar driven songs other than maybe BGTY, though I do like Schon's soloing throughout.
NO SAX SOLOS SHOULD EVER BE ON A JOURNEY ALBUM
Any song credited with all three writers is practically just done as a formality as Schon couldn't have had much creative input.
IBAWY is the only thing I would routinely listen to and it is way better live by any incarnation of the band than it is on the album.

[NoMoreTails]

3?

NoMoreTails is cracking his knuckles.

Oh, please let me do this.

NIG, please contribute. If I hadn't already hit submit I'd have gladly said be my guest.

[Red13JoePa]

Couldn't agree more with your description of the title track as "silly."

The sax, however is an irreplaceable homerun touch, as essential to ROR as the goofy one-off gimmicks of the jungle and rain sounds, strings, and talkbox on TBF were superfluous and nerdy.

[Red13JoePa]

3?

NoMoreTails is cracking his knuckles.

Oh, please let me do this.

NIG, please contribute. If I hadn't already hit submit I'd have gladly said be my guest.

This fear of admitting positives on ROR is why my female following is at the epic, cult-level proportion it is and you two guys are looked at as the lonely knuckle-scraping woman-repellant goons you are.

[NealIsGod]

1.) The songs do not sound like Journey to me. The band evolved a bit with each album, esp. from Departure to E5C4P3, and then to Frontiers. The crazy left turn they took into skinny tie land and bouncy Positive Touch/Suzanne pop songs scarred me for life. With that release, I saw my favorite band become clowns. I was 19 when it came out, and didn't identify with it at all. Still don't!

2.) The chorus of Perry's. God help me, love the guy's voice, but WTF? One of their strengths was the way the band sung harmonies. Now we just had Perry's voice cloned all over the record. Looking back, it was an OBVIOUS sign of the beginning of the end.

3.) Compared to other music being released back then (Slippery When Wet, 5150, Third Stage), it was obvious Journey slipped about 10 notches. Other bands I liked were kicking ass, but not them.

Whew. I have to go home and have a drink.

[*Laura]

I feel that it is more a Perry solo album with Neal and Jon as guests than it is a Journey album.

Why?They were the nucleus of the band,all 3 awesome songwriters.I feel they were together on this.

I think Perry did a pretty good job producing other stuff but shouldn't have produced Journey as he had too much control over the songs, sound, players.

I think Schon and Cain agreed with Perry producing ROR,exactly because he did a great job with Street Talk.Platinum.
As for the control part,sure,that's a producer's job.

It is a pop album with one rocking song (BGTY) and a silly song (ROR) as the only other attempting to rock.
Has no "hard rock" (for Journey) songs. The other albums to that point had a good balance between ballad/rockers/pop.

I agree the sound is different,but that was always something that the band did.I clearly remember Schon saying that they loved trying different things with each album,so I guess with Perry's input as a producer,it was a more commercial album.
ROR stands out exactly because it's an exception to the Journey rule.However,it IS Journey at the very core.

NO SAX SOLOS SHOULD EVER BE ON A JOURNEY ALBUM

That's the shocker...and I love it!

Any song credited with all three writers is practically just done as a formality as Schon couldn't have had much creative input.

HOW do you know that?You cannot possibly have an idea how much each of them contributed to the songs.I can feel all 3 of them when I listen to the songs,thier signature is there.

IBAWY is the only thing I would routinely listen to and it is way better live by any incarnation of the band than it is on the album.

My favorite by far.

Thanks for your input.

[NoMoreTails]

#10 JRNY radio station artwork
#9 Rock band trying to look like Duran Duran
#8 Key-tar
#7 Neal didn't even show up half the time, when he did Perry would say from the looks of you we won't get much out of you, then Neal does his solo in one take
#6 Sax Solo
#5 No Ross
#4 No Smitty
#3 Positive Touch
#2 Self Indulgent direction of singer/producer followed in order to get him to return for one more album instead of giving us Freedom, the proper follow up to Escape and Frontiers





And from the home office in Puxatawny PA,

the #1 Reason ROR is not a Journey album................



A Choir Of Perrys.....

[NealIsGod]

#10 JRNY radio station artwork
#9 Rock band trying to look like Duran Duran
#8 Key-tar
#7 Neal didn't even show up half the time, when he did Perry would say from the looks of you we won't get much out of you, then Neal does his solo in one take
#6 Sax Solo
#5 No Ross
#4 No Smitty
#3 Positive Touch
#2 Self Indulgent direction of singer/producer followed in order to get him to return for one more album instead of giving us Freedom, the proper follow up to Escape and Frontiers

And from the home office in Puxatawny PA,

the #1 Reason ROR is not a Journey album................

A Choir Of Perrys.....

Excellent. Choir is better than Chorus.

[Red13JoePa]

And from the home office in Puxatawny PA,

the #1 Reason ROR is not a Journey album................



A Choir Of Perrys.....

LOL, not a fan of that, either.
"Choir Of Perrys (TM NoMoreTails)"

[Red13JoePa]

the #1 Reason ROR is not a Journey album................

A Choir Of Perrys.....

Excellent. Choir is better than Chorus.

LOL, remember the first time he rolled that beauty out?

Ah, simpler times (wipes away a spare tear).

NOTHING STAYS THE SAME!

[*Laura]

#10 JRNY radio station artwork - It was a symbol of the concept.
#9 Rock band trying to look like Duran Duran - Only Cain.
#8 Key-tar - Blame it on Duran Duran
#7 Neal didn't even show up half the time, when he did Perry would say from the looks of you we won't get much out of you, then Neal does his solo in one take - Neal admitted he liked to ride his motorcycle.Someone (Perry) had to be in control and work.
#6 Sax Solo - Brilliant
#5 No Ross - Yeah,that sucked,I agree
#4 No Smitty - Sucked even more.
#3 Positive Touch - It's a catchy song...come on.I bet even Neal rode his motorcycle to it.
#2 Self Indulgent direction of singer/producer followed in order to get him to return for one more album instead of giving us Freedom, the proper follow up to Escape and Frontiers - That's a long story involving managers,money,contracts,egos and none of us have all the pieces of the puzzle.Just opinions and speculations.





And from the home office in Puxatawny PA,

the #1 Reason ROR is not a Journey album................



A Choir Of Perrys.....---- - The Voices. Not bad at all.

[heardonthestreet]

I feel that it is more a Perry solo album with Neal and Jon as guests than it is a Journey album.

Why?They were the nucleus of the band,all 3 awesome songwriters.I feel they were together on this.

I think Perry did a pretty good job producing other stuff but shouldn't have produced Journey as he had too much control over the songs, sound, players.

I think Schon and Cain agreed with Perry producing ROR,exactly because he did a great job with Street Talk.Platinum.
As for the control part,sure,that's a producer's job.

It is a pop album with one rocking song (BGTY) and a silly song (ROR) as the only other attempting to rock.
Has no "hard rock" (for Journey) songs. The other albums to that point had a good balance between ballad/rockers/pop.

I agree the sound is different,but that was always something that the band did.I clearly remember Schon saying that they loved trying different things with each album,so I guess with Perry's input as a producer,it was a more commercial album.
ROR stands out exactly because it's an exception to the Journey rule.However,it IS Journey at the very core.

NO SAX SOLOS SHOULD EVER BE ON A JOURNEY ALBUM

That's the shocker...and I love it!

Any song credited with all three writers is practically just done as a formality as Schon couldn't have had much creative input.

HOW do you know that?You cannot possibly have an idea how much each of them contributed to the songs.I can feel all 3 of them when I listen to the songs,thier signature is there.

IBAWY is the only thing I would routinely listen to and it is way better live by any incarnation of the band than it is on the album.

My favorite by far.

Thanks for your input.

IBAWY just played on the radio. How strange is that?

[*Laura]

It was because of the Choir Of Perry's.Halleluja,Amen.

[Red13JoePa]

Ah, another one of the prized members of my vast stable checks in, how are you, HOTSie and did you get the note I left on your pillow?

[Deb]

3?

NoMoreTails is cracking his knuckles.

Oh, please let me do this.

NIG, please contribute. If I hadn't already hit submit I'd have gladly said be my guest.

This fear of admitting positives on ROR is why my female following is at the epic, cult-level proportion it is and you two guys are looked at as the lonely knuckle-scraping woman-repellant goons you are.

OK, now THAT was funny! Almost TNC worthy.

[heardonthestreet]

Ah, another one of the prized members of my vast stable checks in, how are you, HOTSie and did you get the note I left on your pillow?

Your excuses for your lack of performance are a joke. Next time let ME ware the pink nighty.

[NealIsGod]

Ah, another one of the prized members of my vast stable checks in, how are you, HOTSie and did you get the note I left on your pillow?

Your excuses for your lack of performance are a joke. Next time let ME ware the pink nighty.

Oh, if only you had spelled wear correctly, that would have been a bullseye.

[Red13JoePa]

Ah, another one of the prized members of my vast stable checks in, how are you, HOTSie and did you get the note I left on your pillow?

Your excuses for your lack of performance are a joke. Next time let ME ware the pink nighty.

Oh, if only you had spelled wear correctly, that would have been a bullseye.

Worse, she lies.

I didn't know toes could curl that far but that's what I wrought and that was even with Faith In The Heartland blasting ing BG.

[ohsherrie]

3?

NoMoreTails is cracking his knuckles.

Oh, please let me do this.

NIG, please contribute. If I hadn't already hit submit I'd have gladly said be my guest.

This fear of admitting positives on ROR is why my female following is at the epic, cult-level proportion it is and you two guys are looked at as the lonely knuckle-scraping woman-repellant goons you are.

Joe 13, that may be your masterpiece post of all time.

[PROPERRY]

Ah, another one of the prized members of my vast stable checks in, how are you, HOTSie and did you get the note I left on your pillow?

Your excuses for your lack of performance are a joke. Next time let ME ware the pink nighty.

Oh, if only you had spelled wear correctly, that would have been a bullseye.

Worse, she lies.

I didn't know toes could curl that far but that's what I wrought and that was even with Faith In The Heartland blasting ing BG.

Well Joepa, I'm not suprised that you would like ROR, the music is SUPERB! As for the other stuff you & Hots got going on between each other lately...Now that is what is suprising.

[Matthew]

I feel that it is more a Perry solo album with Neal and Jon as guests than it is a Journey album.

Any song credited with all three writers is practically just done as a formality as Schon couldn't have had much creative input.

But didn't Perry come relatively late to the project? Schon and Cain did most of the preparatory work and were experimenting with the new direction before Perry was involved. It seems to me that the only aspect of Schon's creative input which was lacking was the use of his rhythm guitar.

Also - I'd hardly call Cain a "guest" on the album. He has a huge presence on ROR - more than on any other Journey album given the dominance of the keyboards.

Whether or not you like ROR it was a surely a record that the Perry/Schon/Cain trio were jointly responsible for.

[Matthew]

3.) Compared to other music being released back then (Slippery When Wet, 5150, Third Stage), it was obvious Journey slipped about 10 notches. Other bands I liked were kicking ass, but not them.

Third Stage was a huge disappointment, I reckon. 5150 had two good songs and a bunch of fillers. And Slippery When Wet? Well, I'd better hold my fire on that one because Deb might give me a slap.

The fact is...Journey were on fire in '86 whilst their main rivals were all releasing duds.

Well, everyone except for Survivor, that is.

[Red13JoePa]

The fact is...Journey were on fire in '86 whilst their main rivals were all releasing duds.

Well, everyone except for Survivor, that is.

Right, again you are.
When Seconds Count is terrific.

[squirt1]

Few bands had the writing abilities of Journey w 3 main contributors. Therefore ,the other bands you mention had half the sales. I still appreciated those other bands,but Journey was like a fine wine or recipe. Change one main ingredient and its just a new mixture for the customers to buy or pass on buying the product.

[Deb]

Third Stage was a huge disappointment, I reckon. 5150 had two good songs and a bunch of fillers. And Slippery When Wet? Well, I'd better hold my fire on that one because Deb might give me a slap.

Good boy Matt!

[ohsherrie]

I feel that it is more a Perry solo album with Neal and Jon as guests than it is a Journey album.

Any song credited with all three writers is practically just done as a formality as Schon couldn't have had much creative input.

But didn't Perry come relatively late to the project? Schon and Cain did most of the preparatory work and were experimenting with the new direction before Perry was involved. It seems to me that the only aspect of Schon's creative input which was lacking was the use of his rhythm guitar.

Also - I'd hardly call Cain a "guest" on the album. He has a huge presence on ROR - more than on any other Journey album given the dominance of the keyboards.

Whether or not you like ROR it was a surely a record that the Perry/Schon/Cain trio were jointly responsible for.

Matt, it all comes down to choosing whose spin, at what particular point in time, you decide to listen to and prefer to believe.

I agree that Jon and Neal both said they had the stuff started before Steve ever decided to come back to Journey. Somehow though, Steve ended up being the bad guy. It's probably because he was the producer and had to take the responsibility and blame for making the hard decisions.

[Classic Rock]

Matthew, It seems like you slam Boston every time you get a chance. Now make no mistake about it I would choose Journey over Boston if I was forced to choose but they almost as good to me. The following points I am going to make doesn’t mean that I think Boston is the more successful band overall but they are certainly not far behind. They don’t deserve the cheap shots you throw at them every chance you get.

Earlier in this thread you stated:

There are numerous high-quality rock acts who have strong critical and commercial reputations: artists such as Queen, Aerosmith and Van Halen have long had a 'credibility' Journey have never achieved. Even Boston are treated with more respect.

What do you mean by even Boston? Their debut album has out sold Journey’s Greatest Hits by about 3 million copies. That is saying a whole hell of a lot. They have sold 31 million records in the United States only 23 spots behind Journey on the best sellers of all time. You know what the kicker is? They released half the albums and only had ONE round of reissues in 30 years.

Third Stage was a huge disappointment, I reckon.

If I had to choose between Boston's Third Stage or Raised on Radio I would choose Third Stage in a second. Third Stage sold 4 million copies twice that of Raised on Radio. And guess what? There is another kicker! There was an 8 year period of hiatus between that and Don't Look Back and to come back selling that much! Journey barley sold a 4th of that for TBF even with the classic line up.

Please note these are United States figures which are the ones that matter most. The music scene in Britain must have blown at this time, I reckon.

[strangegrey]

1.) The songs do not sound like Journey to me. The band evolved a bit with each album, esp. from Departure to E5C4P3, and then to Frontiers. The crazy left turn they took into skinny tie land and bouncy Positive Touch/Suzanne pop songs scarred me for life. With that release, I saw my favorite band become clowns. I was 19 when it came out, and didn't identify with it at all. Still don't!

Nig, Thanks for perfectly putting together the words for me. I couldn't have said it better....ROR is indeed a strange left turn.

3.) Compared to other music being released back then (Slippery When Wet, 5150, Third Stage), it was obvious Journey slipped about 10 notches. Other bands I liked were kicking ass, but not them.

To this day, nothing has ever or will ever top 5150 for me. The entire 5150 album/tour establishes a golden age in my musical past. Something about the vibe that album had, the tour had...which is simply untouchable.

[larryfromnextdoor]

To this day, nothing has ever or will ever top 5150 for me. The entire 5150 album/tour establishes a golden age in my musical past. Something about the vibe that album had, the tour had...which is simply untouchable.

exactly for me too... love every song,, all 9 of them !! redjoe doesnt like Inside, that was the perfect album..

[NoMoreTails]

But didn't Perry come relatively late to the project? Schon and Cain did most of the preparatory work and were experimenting with the new direction before Perry was involved. It seems to me that the only aspect of Schon's creative input which was lacking was the use of his rhythm guitar..

This was probably more of the bullshit spin they spewed in interviews at the time. You'd have thought Perry and Schon loved each other, all smiles in the GCHI video, Neal saying it was the best tour they had done, bullshit.
Whatever they worked on before Perry came in (Freedom material) was scrapped. Cain may have worked up a bit of that fluff before Perry came in.

Also - I'd hardly call Cain a "guest" on the album. He has a huge presence on ROR - more than on any other Journey album given the dominance of the keyboards. .

Good point here, plenty of blame for ROR on Cain too.

Whether or not you like ROR it was a surely a record that the Perry/Schon/Cain trio were jointly responsible for.

I don't buy that, I'd like to hear Neal comment on it now.