Bush Administration lied repeatedly to justify war...what a

[Barb]

Interesting.....


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/ ... 9494.shtml


(CBS) Saddam Hussein initially didn't think the U.S. would invade Iraq to destroy weapons of mass destruction, so he kept the fact that he had none a secret to prevent an Iranian invasion he believed could happen. The Iraqi dictator revealed this thinking to George Piro, the FBI agent assigned to interrogate him after his capture.

Piro, in his first television interview, relays this and other revelations to 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley this Sunday, Jan. 27, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Piro spent almost seven months debriefing Saddam in a plan based on winning his confidence by convincing him that Piro was an important envoy who answered to President Bush. This and being Saddam's sole provider of items like writing materials and toiletries made the toppled Iraqi president open up to Piro, a Lebanese-American and one of the few FBI agents who spoke Arabic.

"He told me he initially miscalculated... President Bush’s intentions. He thought the United States would retaliate with the same type of attack as we did in 1998...a four-day aerial attack," says Piro. "He survived that one and he was willing to accept that type of attack." "He didn't believe the U.S. would invade?" asks Pelley, "No, not initially," answers Piro.

Once the invasion was certain, says Piro, Saddam asked his generals if they could hold the invaders for two weeks. "And at that point, it would go into what he called the secret war," Piro tells Pelley. But Piro isn’t convinced that the insurgency was Saddam's plan. "Well, he would like to take credit for the insurgency," says Piro.

Saddam still wouldn't admit he had no weapons of mass destruction, even when it was obvious there would be military action against him because of the perception he did. Because, says Piro, "For him, it was critical that he was seen as still the strong, defiant Saddam. He thought that [faking having the weapons] would prevent the Iranians from reinvading Iraq," he tells Pelley.

He also intended and had the wherewithal to restart the weapons program. "Saddam] still had the engineers. The folks that he needed to reconstitute his program are still there," says Piro. "He wanted to pursue all of WMD…to reconstitute his entire WMD program." This included chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, Piro says.

Saddam bragged that he changed his routine and security to elude capture. "What he wanted to really illustrate is…how he was able to outsmart us," says Piro. "He told me he changed…the way he traveled. He got rid of his normal vehicles. He got rid of the protective detail that he traveled with, really just to change his signature."

It took nine months to finally capture Saddam, but U.S. calculations on where he might be early on turned out to be accurate. Saddam was at Dora Farms early in the war when the known presidential site was targeted with tons of bombs and many missiles. "He said it in a kind of a bragging fashion that he was there, but that we missed him. He wasn't bothered by the fact that he was there," Piro tells Pelley.


Produced By Henry Schuster
© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[Tomulator]

Interesting.....


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/ ... 9494.shtml


(CBS) Saddam Hussein initially didn't think the U.S. would invade Iraq to destroy weapons of mass destruction, so he kept the fact that he had none a secret to prevent an Iranian invasion he believed could happen. The Iraqi dictator revealed this thinking to George Piro, the FBI agent assigned to interrogate him after his capture.

Piro, in his first television interview, relays this and other revelations to 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley this Sunday, Jan. 27, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Piro spent almost seven months debriefing Saddam in a plan based on winning his confidence by convincing him that Piro was an important envoy who answered to President Bush. This and being Saddam's sole provider of items like writing materials and toiletries made the toppled Iraqi president open up to Piro, a Lebanese-American and one of the few FBI agents who spoke Arabic.

"He told me he initially miscalculated... President Bush’s intentions. He thought the United States would retaliate with the same type of attack as we did in 1998...a four-day aerial attack," says Piro. "He survived that one and he was willing to accept that type of attack." "He didn't believe the U.S. would invade?" asks Pelley, "No, not initially," answers Piro.

Once the invasion was certain, says Piro, Saddam asked his generals if they could hold the invaders for two weeks. "And at that point, it would go into what he called the secret war," Piro tells Pelley. But Piro isn’t convinced that the insurgency was Saddam's plan. "Well, he would like to take credit for the insurgency," says Piro.

Saddam still wouldn't admit he had no weapons of mass destruction, even when it was obvious there would be military action against him because of the perception he did. Because, says Piro, "For him, it was critical that he was seen as still the strong, defiant Saddam. He thought that [faking having the weapons] would prevent the Iranians from reinvading Iraq," he tells Pelley.

He also intended and had the wherewithal to restart the weapons program. "Saddam] still had the engineers. The folks that he needed to reconstitute his program are still there," says Piro. "He wanted to pursue all of WMD…to reconstitute his entire WMD program." This included chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, Piro says.

Saddam bragged that he changed his routine and security to elude capture. "What he wanted to really illustrate is…how he was able to outsmart us," says Piro. "He told me he changed…the way he traveled. He got rid of his normal vehicles. He got rid of the protective detail that he traveled with, really just to change his signature."

It took nine months to finally capture Saddam, but U.S. calculations on where he might be early on turned out to be accurate. Saddam was at Dora Farms early in the war when the known presidential site was targeted with tons of bombs and many missiles. "He said it in a kind of a bragging fashion that he was there, but that we missed him. He wasn't bothered by the fact that he was there," Piro tells Pelley.


Produced By Henry Schuster
© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Still think Bush intentionally "lied"???

Never let the FACTS get in the way of a good story eh?

[Rick]

Interesting.....


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/ ... 9494.shtml


(CBS) Saddam Hussein initially didn't think the U.S. would invade Iraq to destroy weapons of mass destruction, so he kept the fact that he had none a secret to prevent an Iranian invasion he believed could happen. The Iraqi dictator revealed this thinking to George Piro, the FBI agent assigned to interrogate him after his capture.

Piro, in his first television interview, relays this and other revelations to 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley this Sunday, Jan. 27, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Piro spent almost seven months debriefing Saddam in a plan based on winning his confidence by convincing him that Piro was an important envoy who answered to President Bush. This and being Saddam's sole provider of items like writing materials and toiletries made the toppled Iraqi president open up to Piro, a Lebanese-American and one of the few FBI agents who spoke Arabic.

"He told me he initially miscalculated... President Bush’s intentions. He thought the United States would retaliate with the same type of attack as we did in 1998...a four-day aerial attack," says Piro. "He survived that one and he was willing to accept that type of attack." "He didn't believe the U.S. would invade?" asks Pelley, "No, not initially," answers Piro.

Once the invasion was certain, says Piro, Saddam asked his generals if they could hold the invaders for two weeks. "And at that point, it would go into what he called the secret war," Piro tells Pelley. But Piro isn’t convinced that the insurgency was Saddam's plan. "Well, he would like to take credit for the insurgency," says Piro.

Saddam still wouldn't admit he had no weapons of mass destruction, even when it was obvious there would be military action against him because of the perception he did. Because, says Piro, "For him, it was critical that he was seen as still the strong, defiant Saddam. He thought that [faking having the weapons] would prevent the Iranians from reinvading Iraq," he tells Pelley.

He also intended and had the wherewithal to restart the weapons program. "Saddam] still had the engineers. The folks that he needed to reconstitute his program are still there," says Piro. "He wanted to pursue all of WMD…to reconstitute his entire WMD program." This included chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, Piro says.

Saddam bragged that he changed his routine and security to elude capture. "What he wanted to really illustrate is…how he was able to outsmart us," says Piro. "He told me he changed…the way he traveled. He got rid of his normal vehicles. He got rid of the protective detail that he traveled with, really just to change his signature."

It took nine months to finally capture Saddam, but U.S. calculations on where he might be early on turned out to be accurate. Saddam was at Dora Farms early in the war when the known presidential site was targeted with tons of bombs and many missiles. "He said it in a kind of a bragging fashion that he was there, but that we missed him. He wasn't bothered by the fact that he was there," Piro tells Pelley.


Produced By Henry Schuster
© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Still think Bush intentionally "lied"???

Never let the FACTS get in the way of a good story eh?

While I don't agree with your political views, your sig is hilarious. Spy's Like Us!

[Tomulator]

Interesting.....


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/ ... 9494.shtml


(CBS) Saddam Hussein initially didn't think the U.S. would invade Iraq to destroy weapons of mass destruction, so he kept the fact that he had none a secret to prevent an Iranian invasion he believed could happen. The Iraqi dictator revealed this thinking to George Piro, the FBI agent assigned to interrogate him after his capture.

Piro, in his first television interview, relays this and other revelations to 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley this Sunday, Jan. 27, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Piro spent almost seven months debriefing Saddam in a plan based on winning his confidence by convincing him that Piro was an important envoy who answered to President Bush. This and being Saddam's sole provider of items like writing materials and toiletries made the toppled Iraqi president open up to Piro, a Lebanese-American and one of the few FBI agents who spoke Arabic.

"He told me he initially miscalculated... President Bush’s intentions. He thought the United States would retaliate with the same type of attack as we did in 1998...a four-day aerial attack," says Piro. "He survived that one and he was willing to accept that type of attack." "He didn't believe the U.S. would invade?" asks Pelley, "No, not initially," answers Piro.

Once the invasion was certain, says Piro, Saddam asked his generals if they could hold the invaders for two weeks. "And at that point, it would go into what he called the secret war," Piro tells Pelley. But Piro isn’t convinced that the insurgency was Saddam's plan. "Well, he would like to take credit for the insurgency," says Piro.

Saddam still wouldn't admit he had no weapons of mass destruction, even when it was obvious there would be military action against him because of the perception he did. Because, says Piro, "For him, it was critical that he was seen as still the strong, defiant Saddam. He thought that [faking having the weapons] would prevent the Iranians from reinvading Iraq," he tells Pelley.

He also intended and had the wherewithal to restart the weapons program. "Saddam] still had the engineers. The folks that he needed to reconstitute his program are still there," says Piro. "He wanted to pursue all of WMD…to reconstitute his entire WMD program." This included chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, Piro says.

Saddam bragged that he changed his routine and security to elude capture. "What he wanted to really illustrate is…how he was able to outsmart us," says Piro. "He told me he changed…the way he traveled. He got rid of his normal vehicles. He got rid of the protective detail that he traveled with, really just to change his signature."

It took nine months to finally capture Saddam, but U.S. calculations on where he might be early on turned out to be accurate. Saddam was at Dora Farms early in the war when the known presidential site was targeted with tons of bombs and many missiles. "He said it in a kind of a bragging fashion that he was there, but that we missed him. He wasn't bothered by the fact that he was there," Piro tells Pelley.


Produced By Henry Schuster
© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Still think Bush intentionally "lied"???

Never let the FACTS get in the way of a good story eh?

While I don't agree with your political veiws, your sig is hilarious. Spy's Like Us!

Thx. You're the first whose mentioned it.

I love that movie, btw.



PS We can agree to "disagree" you know...all of us...it's ok!

[ohsherrie]

And now I should believe what Sadaam said but he was the devil incarnate who lied with every breath and murdered on a whim before he was captured? Nope, don't think so. Sounds like a good ratings grabber though.

[Barb]

And now I should believe what Sadaam said but he was the devil incarnate who lied with every breath and murdered on a whim before he was captured? Nope, don't think so. Sounds like a good ratings grabber though.

Even if you don't believe it, even you should recall that all he had to do to prevent an invasion was show he had disarmed. His little strategy seems to have backfired on him.

And of course we know the only media accounts you believe are the ones that validate and reconfirm your hatred of all things Bush. Anything that goes against that you immeidately dismiss. I'm trying to understand how that makes you so much smarter than and superior to the rest of us here.

[Tomulator]

And now I should believe what Sadaam said but he was the devil incarnate who lied with every breath and murdered on a whim before he was captured? Nope, don't think so. Sounds like a good ratings grabber though.

Even if you don't believe it, even you should recall that all he had to do to prevent an invasion was show he had disarmed. His little strategy seems to have backfired on him.

And of course we know the only media accounts you believe are the ones that validate and reconfirm your hatred of all things Bush. Anything that goes against that you immeidately dismiss. I'm trying to understand how that makes you so much smarter than and superior to the rest of us here.

That was such a good response that it hurt ME...and I agree with every word you said!!

Well played.

[ohsherrie]

And now I should believe what Sadaam said but he was the devil incarnate who lied with every breath and murdered on a whim before he was captured? Nope, don't think so. Sounds like a good ratings grabber though.

Even if you don't believe it, even you should recall that all he had to do to prevent an invasion was show he had disarmed. His little strategy seems to have backfired on him.

And of course we know the only media accounts you believe are the ones that validate and reconfirm your hatred of all things Bush. Anything that goes against that you immeidately dismiss. I'm trying to understand how that makes you so much smarter than and superior to the rest of us here.

What you need to understand Barb is that I don't base my opinions on what the main stream media tries to feed me. I base them on the realities at the crux of it all. I research and read. I filter out the hyperbole and the sensationalism to the bare bones of the facts. You can believe me about that or not. That's certainly your option but it doesn't change anything.

[Barb]

And now I should believe what Sadaam said but he was the devil incarnate who lied with every breath and murdered on a whim before he was captured? Nope, don't think so. Sounds like a good ratings grabber though.

Even if you don't believe it, even you should recall that all he had to do to prevent an invasion was show he had disarmed. His little strategy seems to have backfired on him.

And of course we know the only media accounts you believe are the ones that validate and reconfirm your hatred of all things Bush. Anything that goes against that you immeidately dismiss. I'm trying to understand how that makes you so much smarter than and superior to the rest of us here.

What you need to understand Barb is that I don't base my opinions on what the main stream media tries to feed me. I base them on the realities at the crux of it all. I research and read. I filter out the hyperbole and the sensationalism to the bare bones of the facts. You can believe me about that or not. That's certainly your option but it doesn't change anything.

In this instance, how could you possibly know for certain what did or didn't happen? You would have to physically be there. You trust only news sources that back up what you already believe. At least be honest and admit it.

[conversationpc]

What you need to understand Barb is that I don't base my opinions on what the main stream media tries to feed me. I base them on the realities at the crux of it all. I research and read. I filter out the hyperbole and the sensationalism to the bare bones of the facts.

Oh, yes, and we conservatives just believe EVERYTHING the mainstream media says without questioning. We're so stupid, that we're unable to filter out the hyperbole and sensationalism to get to those bare bones.

So we're just mindless myrmidons, unable to move a muscle without the marching orders of the RNC or King Bush? Do you hear yourself? Do you actually believe EVERYTHING you hear about Bush that makes him look bad, because it seems like you do? If there is seriously not even one minor thing you would give him credit for, that is the definition of BDS and I would be questioning who it is here that is being led like a sheep. I give credit to him for the things he's done well and I've criticized him for the things I don't think he's handled so well. That's balance, something you don't seem to have. Unless a person is Satan incarnate, there's no way they could not have done some things worth supporting.

[Marc S]

d-paste, ignore, ignore, ignore. The surefire Republican response on this board to any information that might damn their torpedoes.

:lol: Burger let you read them before he shredded? Dope! I love you man!

For one of the most ignorant and least well-rounded people I have ever encountered on any message board, you certainly have a lot of audacity. You are the prototypical American conservative the rest of the world makes fun of.

Yes, indeed we do.

[ohsherrie]

What you need to understand Barb is that I don't base my opinions on what the main stream media tries to feed me. I base them on the realities at the crux of it all. I research and read. I filter out the hyperbole and the sensationalism to the bare bones of the facts.

Oh, yes, and we conservatives just believe EVERYTHING the mainstream media says without questioning. We're so stupid, that we're unable to filter out the hyperbole and sensationalism to get to those bare bones.

So we're just mindless myrmidons, unable to move a muscle without the marching orders of the RNC or King Bush? Do you hear yourself? Do you actually believe EVERYTHING you hear about Bush that makes him look bad, because it seems like you do? If there is seriously not even one minor thing you would give him credit for, that is the definition of BDS and I would be questioning who it is here that is being led like a sheep. I give credit to him for the things he's done well and I've criticized him for the things I don't think he's handled so well. That's balance, something you don't seem to have. Unless a person is Satan incarnate, there's no way they could not have done some things worth supporting.

Dave, first of all, I know you're not just a stupid Bush lemming. I tried to tell you this before but you couldn't get past your BDS blockage to understand what I was saying. I HONESTLY don't know of anything at all that Bush has done that was good for this country. I'm being serious here, not just agruing with you. There is really not one single thing that he's done that I see as being good for this country. You may not believe this, but if I could think of anything I would say so.

I asked you before to tell me what he's done that I should see as being good for this country and as I remember it, I didn't consider them as being good.

I've got to go for a while now, but if you'll post another list of what you see as being Bush accomplishments that aren't really just correcting his previous mistakes I'll try to come back later and respond.

[conversationpc]

I HONESTLY don't know of anything at all that Bush has done that was good for this country. I'm being serious here, not just agruing with you. There is really not one single thing that he's done that I see as being good for this country. You may not believe this, but if I could think of anything I would say so.

That's really unbelievable. Only people with blind hatred think like this. Hell, even Jimmy Carter, who I consider to have been a far worse President than Bush has ever been did at least one good thing while in office.

I asked you before to tell me what he's done that I should see as being good for this country and as I remember it, I didn't consider them as being good.

It's not my prerogative to give you a list of things he's done. You're more than intelligent enough to figure those out for yourself.

[Barb]

The Iraqi dictator revealed this thinking to George Piro, the FBI agent assigned to interrogate him after his capture.

I've read a bit about Piro, not alot of it is out there yet. However Saddam confessed to him the killing of 185,000 kurds. This man spent 7 months with Saddam and it's goona make one hell of a movie someday.

It's interesting to me how afraid of Iran he was. He'd rather risk an invasion by the US and lie about his WMD then admit he didn't have them in front of Iran.

[Rockindeano]

It's interesting to me how afraid of Iran he was. He'd rather risk an invasion by the US and lie about his WMD then admit he didn't have them in front of Iran.

Did you sneak into my mind?

My words exactly!

[Saint John]

The Iraqi dictator revealed this thinking to George Piro, the FBI agent assigned to interrogate him after his capture.

I've read a bit about Piro, not alot of it is out there yet. However Saddam confessed to him the killing of 185,000 kurds. This man spent 7 months with Saddam and it's goona make one hell of a movie someday.

It's interesting to me how afraid of Iran he was. He'd rather risk an invasion by the US and lie about his WMD then admit he didn't have them in front of Iran.

Of course he would. Going back to Reagan (who initially gave him weapons), and then George H. Bush (who the U.N. stopped from completeing the job), to Clinton (who played "let's bomb an apirin factory" with him) to shell games with weapons inspectors, and the weakness from the U.N. (again), he had absolutely no reason to fear us. Unfortunately for him, we have a president who decided it was time to stop pussy-footing with a maniac and took his bitch ass out.

[RedWingFan]

It's interesting to me how afraid of Iran he was. He'd rather risk an invasion by the US and lie about his WMD then admit he didn't have them in front of Iran.

Did you sneak into my mind?

My words exactly!

Well this doesn't square with your, "Bush lied, soldiers died" spiel.

[ohsherrie]

You're more than intelligent enough to figure those out for yourself.

Well assume I'm not and educate me. What has he done that I should be grateful to him for?

[7 Wishes]

Never let the FACTS get in the way of a good story eh?

That Bush knowingly lied is as irrefutable as the fact that Reaganomics did NOT work. HE LIED. REPEATEDLY AND KNOWINGLY!!!! FACT!!!!!

[7 Wishes]

So we're just mindless myrmidons, unable to move a muscle without the marching orders of the RNC or King Bush? Do you hear yourself? Do you actually believe EVERYTHING you hear about Bush that makes him look bad, because it seems like you do? If there is seriously not even one minor thing you would give him credit for, that is the definition of BDS and I would be questioning who it is here that is being led like a sheep. I give credit to him for the things he's done well and I've criticized him for the things I don't think he's handled so well. That's balance, something you don't seem to have. Unless a person is Satan incarnate, there's no way they could not have done some things worth supporting.

See, this is why I fucking hate getting into debates with Dave. There is nothing more annoying than the person you're debating making an intelligent, well-thought-out observation that makes you re-examine your own postulations.

Where the fuck is that dumbass Arkansas when you need him?

[ohsherrie]

So we're just mindless myrmidons, unable to move a muscle without the marching orders of the RNC or King Bush? Do you hear yourself? Do you actually believe EVERYTHING you hear about Bush that makes him look bad, because it seems like you do? If there is seriously not even one minor thing you would give him credit for, that is the definition of BDS and I would be questioning who it is here that is being led like a sheep. I give credit to him for the things he's done well and I've criticized him for the things I don't think he's handled so well. That's balance, something you don't seem to have. Unless a person is Satan incarnate, there's no way they could not have done some things worth supporting.

See, this is why I fucking hate getting into debates with Dave. There is nothing more annoying than the person you're debating making an intelligent, well-thought-out observation that makes you re-examine your own postulations.

Where the fuck is that dumbass Arkansas when you need him?

Yeah but what are those things worth supporting?

[7 Wishes]

Iran (read..radicals/Pakistan) is the real problem and everybody knows it. We tame that, we win, and you'll see prosperity like never before.

People like you scare the shit out of me. You're a combination of brain-dead and brainwashed. Unbelievable. Why can't they put the 10% of the U.S. population that is retarded enough to agree with you, put them under a gigantic biodome, seal the sucker up, and check back in 25 years to see which amongst you were the strongest?

[ohsherrie]

Iran (read..radicals/Pakistan) is the real problem and everybody knows it. We tame that, we win, and you'll see prosperity like never before.

People like you scare the shit out of me. You're a combination of brain-dead and brainwashed. Unbelievable. Why can't they put the 10% of the U.S. population that is retarded enough to agree with you, put them under a gigantic biodome, seal the sucker up, and check back in 25 years to see which amongst you were the strongest?

And the scariest thing is that they can vote. Those morons running around in the woods playing soldier, posing in front of mirrors while they flex, and beating their wives can actually vote.

[Barb]

And the scariest thing is that they can vote. Those morons running around in the woods playing soldier, posing in front of mirrors while they flex, and beating their wives can actually vote.

You are some piece of work. You never run out of cheap personal shots to those you feel are beneath you. Wow. Just because someone holds a different political ideology, they are the equivalent of shit in your eyes. I think that speaks volumes of what you are, Sherrie.

I believe what I believe and I know I am an intelligent person, but I would NEVER EVER berate or belittle anyone because they don't think like me. Condescending and arrogant don't even begin to describe you.

[7 Wishes]

And the scariest thing is that they can vote. Those morons running around in the woods playing soldier, posing in front of mirrors while they flex, and beating their wives can actually vote.

You are some piece of work. You never run out of cheap personal shots to those you feel are beneath you. Wow. Just because someone holds a different political ideology, they are the equivalent of shit in your eyes. I think that speaks volumes of what you are, Sherrie.

I believe what I believe and I know I am an intelligent person, but I would NEVER EVER berate or belittle anyone because they don't think like me. Condescending and arrogant don't even begin to describe you.

But Barb, that's the thing. With the exception of Dave and a few others, those of us who are not like-minded conservatives find us at the receiving end of a litany of put-downs and condescending tirades...however, when we defend ourselves by citing indisputable facts, we are further ridiculed while the issue itself remains in Limbaugh...er, limbo. When we get angry and respond to name-calling with like responses, then suddenly it's "us whiny liberals" who are the problem...the ones who are "starting" everything. Nonsense and hogwash.

[sadie65]

And the scariest thing is that they can vote. Those morons running around in the woods playing soldier, posing in front of mirrors while they flex, and beating their wives can actually vote.

You are some piece of work. You never run out of cheap personal shots to those you feel are beneath you. Wow. Just because someone holds a different political ideology, they are the equivalent of shit in your eyes. I think that speaks volumes of what you are, Sherrie.

I believe what I believe and I know I am an intelligent person, but I would NEVER EVER berate or belittle anyone because they don't think like me. Condescending and arrogant don't even begin to describe you.

But Barb, that's the thing. With the exception of Dave and a few others, those of us who are not like-minded conservatives find us at the receiving end of a litany of put-downs and condescending tirades...however, when we defend ourselves by citing indisputable facts, we are further ridiculed while the issue itself remains in Limbaugh...er, limbo. When we get angry and respond to name-calling with like responses, then suddenly it's "us whiny liberals" who are the problem...the ones who are "starting" everything. Nonsense and hogwash.

Gotta say, I think it's pretty even in terms of ridicule.

Seriously. I just think everyone is showing a lot of human characteristics. And I doubt that's gonna change when you all feel so passionately about things...see I can use that word too...

[Barb]

And the scariest thing is that they can vote. Those morons running around in the woods playing soldier, posing in front of mirrors while they flex, and beating their wives can actually vote.

You are some piece of work. You never run out of cheap personal shots to those you feel are beneath you. Wow. Just because someone holds a different political ideology, they are the equivalent of shit in your eyes. I think that speaks volumes of what you are, Sherrie.

I believe what I believe and I know I am an intelligent person, but I would NEVER EVER berate or belittle anyone because they don't think like me. Condescending and arrogant don't even begin to describe you.

But Barb, that's the thing. With the exception of Dave and a few others, those of us who are not like-minded conservatives find us at the receiving end of a litany of put-downs and condescending tirades...however, when we defend ourselves by citing indisputable facts, we are further ridiculed while the issue itself remains in Limbaugh...er, limbo. When we get angry and respond to name-calling with like responses, then suddenly it's "us whiny liberals" who are the problem...the ones who are "starting" everything. Nonsense and hogwash.

Can you direct me to those tirades, because from what I see, it's the liberals doing all the name calling and taking the cheap shots in this thread. Saying someone beats their wife because they think differently is just ridiculous and a new low.

You know what's really funny? None of us really know a goddam thing. We all think we know and believe what we believe but we have zero access to real information so we are just speculators. Tearing each other to shreds over this stuff is pathetic.

My passion for politics is dead because no matter who is running the show, we do not matter. All that matters to ANY of these people is their own power and wealth. If you think Hillary or Barack or Romney give a crap about the American people, you're crazy. None of them care. No matter who is President this time next year, your life ain't gonna change. We as individuals are responsible for our own lives and well being, not some politician.

[rubyglare]

So when are we (US) invading Turkey, they are bombing them damn Kurds in Iraq. http://www.statesman.com/news/content/n ... 7iraq.html
http://www.mahalo.com/Turkey_Bombs_Kurds "BBC News: Turkey 'bombs PKK Iraq targets' (Nov. 12, 2007)

Turkish helicopters bombed several abandoned villages in northern Iraq on Nov. 12, 2007. The attacks occurred after Turkish officials said four Turkish soldiers were killed while fighting Kurdish rebels in the Sirnak province. "

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCr ... SL30226221
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304676,00.html

So quickly, since this took place in October, all you 'he gassed the Kurds so we're justified'-well? Pakistan is the Iraq of the 2010s, just you wait, all those war planes & other weapons US companies sold them will soon be pointed at our soldiers yet again. Then there is the 100million Plus dollar bunch of JDAM missiles (& more) being sold to Saudi Arabia, you know that place where some of those hijackers actually came from, where they have fundy Wahhabi schools. Ya gotta love it, just say it.
http://www.defensedaily.com/index.html "Boeing, Lockheed Martin To Join Forces In Bid To Make Next Generation Bomber
January 25, 2008
By Jen DiMascio
The nation's two largest defense contractors-- Boeing [BA] and Lockheed Martin [LMT]--are expected to announce today that they will join forces in an effort to make the Air Force's next generation of bomber aircraft, according to informed sources."

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/trise ... _1_n.shtml
Bush administration backs JDAM sales to Saudi Arabia
By Nathan Hodge

17 January 2008

"The Bush administration is preparing the way for the sale of precision munitions to Saudi Arabia as part of a major new arms package for its Middle East allies.

The US Defense Security Co-operation Agency (DSCA) notified US Congress on 14 January of a proposed sale of 900 Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) tail kits for the kingdom, along with integration equipment, contractor engineering and other technical support. The total value of the sale is estimated at USD123 million.

The Saudi government has requested the kits to enhance the capability of the Royal Saudi Air Force's F-15S aircraft. "
I'm fed up with private weapons makers insisting on selling their wares to whoever can pay them & then our military has to go in & fight them-when is this practice going to be recognized as the threat to American National seurity? Even the British gov was caught paying Brit tax monies to bribe the Saudis into buying British-made weapons. This is a bad habit that can be traced back to the East India Co. & West India Co-the very allies in our confidence game in Iraq: the British, the Dutch.

[7 Wishes]

Can you direct me to those tirades, because from what I see, it's the liberals doing all the name calling and taking the cheap shots in this thread. Saying someone beats their wife because they think differently is just ridiculous and a new low.

You know what's really funny? None of us really know a goddam thing. We all think we know and believe what we believe but we have zero access to real information so we are just speculators. Tearing each other to shreds over this stuff is pathetic.

My passion for politics is dead because no matter who is running the show, we do not matter. All that matters to ANY of these people is their own power and wealth. If you think Hillary or Barack or Romney give a crap about the American people, you're crazy. None of them care. No matter who is President this time next year, your life ain't gonna change. We as individuals are responsible for our own lives and well being, not some politician.

Re: the name calling...the evidence there for the seeing.

Otherwise, this is a very nice post, and I agree with you for the most part...I think Edwards, Romney, and Giuliani would all have been successful snake-oil salesmen back at the turn of the century.

[RedWingFan]

We as individuals are responsible for our own lives and well being, not some politician.

This is profound in that it's easier to blame Bush for their or their husbands job going to China, instead of not putting all of their eggs in one preverbial basket. I'm not responsible for myself. Government is responsible for me just like they were responsible for those poor folks in New Orleans.