Eclipse Billboard - Flop

[Rockindeano]

I never knew American Country music, or more specifically Brad Paisley was so popular overseas. The guy is top ten and even top five in a lot of countries.

I'm willing to bet 98% of those CD buyers are females....just saying. It isn't all about the music. If you be catchin me drift....

You'd be wrong again. Paisley is a monster in country. He has as many dudes in his crowds as women. I bet he has a ton more guys in his fanbase than Journey does! You don't know about Paisley? Yet, you claim to like "good music?" Jesus.

[Melissa]

I never knew American Country music, or more specifically Brad Paisley was so popular overseas. The guy is top ten and even top five in a lot of countries.

The ONLY way I even heard of who he is was when I read he's the husband of the chick from the Father of the Bride movies.

[Behshad]

I never knew American Country music, or more specifically Brad Paisley was so popular overseas. The guy is top ten and even top five in a lot of countries.

The ONLY way I even heard of who he is was when I read he's the husband of the chick from the Father of the Bride movies.

Steve Martin rules in those movies and so does Eric Martin um I mean Martin Short !

[Melissa]

I never knew American Country music, or more specifically Brad Paisley was so popular overseas. The guy is top ten and even top five in a lot of countries.

The ONLY way I even heard of who he is was when I read he's the husband of the chick from the Father of the Bride movies.

Steve Martin rules in those movies and so does Eric Martin um I mean Martin Short !

Yeah those two are hilarious!

[Don]

After scouring the Japan Billboard 100, no sign of Eclipse. I did find a Toto album though at #68.
Checked Amazon Japan and the album is at #200 for CD sales, and #720 for mp3 sales.

[Jana]

I never knew American Country music, or more specifically Brad Paisley was so popular overseas. The guy is top ten and even top five in a lot of countries.

I'm willing to bet 98% of those CD buyers are females....just saying. It isn't all about the music. If you be catchin me drift....

Deano is right. You'd be way wrong. I hope you didn't bet much.

[Don]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

[koberry]

Regarding Eclipse; For the most part, the Amazon experiment seems to have failed, how the hell do you screw that up? It's a dollar cheaper than Wal-Mart's digital offering yet no one's really buying it.

The sound clips don't sound like traditional Journey.

I don't buy that. I'm listening to the clips on Amazon's site right now and, to me, those snippets don't sound like a huge departure (no pun) from classic journey. In fact, to me, they sound like stuff might have been pulled from across Infinity to Frontiers. I'm probably in the minority here, but that's what I hear.

Listening to the clips, I'd buy it. Then again, I did

[koberry]

I never knew American Country music, or more specifically Brad Paisley was so popular overseas. The guy is top ten and even top five in a lot of countries.

Brad Paisley rocks pretty great. Lots of current country music is kind of a twist on 80's/90's melodic rock, imho.

[jrny84]

After scouring the Japan Billboard 100, no sign of Eclipse. I did find a Toto album though at #68.
Checked Amazon Japan and the album is at #200 for CD sales, and #720 for mp3 sales.

Wow, thats really weird. I would think it would at least be in the top 40 for album positions. Journey always sold albums well there too. Generations hit #20 and before that Arrival reached #19. Oddly enough though Revelations which showed good sales in the states and overseas did not chart in top 100 in Japan. I am now wondering if Eclipse may follow the same pattern.

Is Japan maybe getting tired out of Journey?

I think that the departure from Journey's signature sound has affective countries like Sweden, where Eclipse charted #36 compared to Revelation's #28 spot.

Don, do you have a link to the Japan billboard 200 website?

[Monker]

After scouring the Japan Billboard 100, no sign of Eclipse. I did find a Toto album though at #68.
Checked Amazon Japan and the album is at #200 for CD sales, and #720 for mp3 sales.

Are you sure it is even released in Japan? Or, is it only available as an import in Japan? The only info I saw posted here was for a UK/Europe release...Japan usually requires an early release date and extra songs...and that didn't happen.

[Don]

After scouring the Japan Billboard 100, no sign of Eclipse. I did find a Toto album though at #68.
Checked Amazon Japan and the album is at #200 for CD sales, and #720 for mp3 sales.

Are you sure it is even released in Japan? Or, is it only available as an import in Japan? The only info I saw posted here was for a UK/Europe release...Japan usually requires an early release date and extra songs...and that didn't happen.

It was released on the 27th of May. Two different Disc packages; one with the standard 12 songs and another with the bonus track of DSB, live from Manila.

[Monker]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

[Rick]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

How can anyone buy something if they don't know about it?

[Saint John]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

How can anyone buy something if they don't know about it?

And in some cases ... not even available! Monker is, and has always been, a complete dumbfuck.

[Monker]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

How can anyone buy something if they don't know about it?

prove to me that they don't

The people who are really interested in Journey follow sites like this, or Facebook, or journeymusic.com. They know. The people who bought Revelation because of DSB and Arnel being able to sound like perry are outside of this albums target audience. THAT is the problem and why this is not selling very well.

iI said that months ago when this ridiculous idea was revealed. That FACT was ignored by people like SJ who went on spouting that Eclipse was going to outsell Revelation...and people kept making crazy statements like that through the time when it SHOULD have been promoted. So, don't go using hindsight to validate the insane statements being made. It doesn't work.

This entire situation was starting to be VERY clear a couple months ago...THAT is when you should have started bitching about promotion. If promotion mattered so much, why were people predicting 100,000 or more in sales for the first week - within a week of it going on sale? Some people here have Neal's guitar up their ass, and actually seemed to enjoy it...until reality hit.

[Gideon]

prove to me that they don't

You didn't just ask someone to prove a negative, did you?

[Rick]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

How can anyone buy something if they don't know about it?

prove to me that they don't

The people who are really interested in Journey follow sites like this, or Facebook, or journeymusic.com. They know. The people who bought Revelation because of DSB and Arnel being able to sound like perry are outside of this albums target audience. THAT is the problem and why this is not selling very well.

iI said that months ago when this ridiculous idea was revealed. That FACT was ignored by people like SJ who went on spouting that Eclipse was going to outsell Revelation...and people kept making crazy statements like that through the time when it SHOULD have been promoted. So, don't go using hindsight to validate the insane statements being made. It doesn't work.

This entire situation was starting to be VERY clear a couple months ago...THAT is when you should have started bitching about promotion. If promotion mattered so much, why were people predicting 100,000 or more in sales for the first week - within a week of it going on sale? Some people here have Neal's guitar up their ass, and actually seemed to enjoy it...until reality hit.

The cash cow purchasers of Journey music are not the hard core fans. Nobody I know at work that even profess to love Journey knew about this new record. It all boils down to public awareness. I'm fairly sure that at least some of the hundreds of thousands of people that saw Journey on their last tour would have picked up the new CD had they know about it.

[Monker]

prove to me that they don't

You didn't just ask someone to prove a negative, did you?

Prove to me that I didn't!

If you read the rest of that post, I think the people who are going to buy this album DO know about it...that is just nearly as many people as some here want to believe.

[Monker]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

How can anyone buy something if they don't know about it?

prove to me that they don't

The people who are really interested in Journey follow sites like this, or Facebook, or journeymusic.com. They know. The people who bought Revelation because of DSB and Arnel being able to sound like perry are outside of this albums target audience. THAT is the problem and why this is not selling very well.

iI said that months ago when this ridiculous idea was revealed. That FACT was ignored by people like SJ who went on spouting that Eclipse was going to outsell Revelation...and people kept making crazy statements like that through the time when it SHOULD have been promoted. So, don't go using hindsight to validate the insane statements being made. It doesn't work.

This entire situation was starting to be VERY clear a couple months ago...THAT is when you should have started bitching about promotion. If promotion mattered so much, why were people predicting 100,000 or more in sales for the first week - within a week of it going on sale? Some people here have Neal's guitar up their ass, and actually seemed to enjoy it...until reality hit.

The cash cow purchasers of Journey music are not the hard core fans. Nobody I know at work that even profess to love Journey knew about this new record. It all boils down to public awareness. I'm fairly sure that at least some of the hundreds of thousands of people that saw Journey on their last tour would have picked up the new CD had they know about it.[/quote

That's always what people want to believe...But, when Journey goes out on tour this year, how many of those 'hundreds of thousands' do you expect to buy Eclipse after the show? Maybe a few thousand total, spanned over months...not enough to make a significant difference in sales. And, I think even fewer from the Revelation tour...because it has been so long ago, and this album turns away from the sound on Revelation...so it's beans.

[koberry]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

How can anyone buy something if they don't know about it?

And in some cases ... not even available! Monker is, and has always been, a complete dumbfuck.

Disagree with that. Back in the bulletin board days, I got so much of my Jrny fix from Monker's board. My perception is that he was quite the dude back then. It took dialing up on a 14.4 modem to get there, but cool stuff.

Just a hater now, really is a shame.

[Monker]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

How can anyone buy something if they don't know about it?

And in some cases ... not even available! Monker is, and has always been, a complete dumbfuck.

Disagree with that. Back in the bulletin board days, I got so much of my Jrny fix from Monker's board. My perception is that he was quite the dude back then. It took dialing up on a 14.4 modem to get there, but cool stuff.

Just a hater now, really is a shame.

You probably mean Skylorde's forum. The only forum I owned I didn't have the time to put into it and it didn't go anywhere. I did own the mailing list for a number of years...and I did help create alt.music.journey.

As for being a 'hater', you can believe what you want to believe....doesn't matter one way way or the other.

[koberry]

I think if we put together all the sales data from the US and abroad, this album has to be considered a sales flop so far. Yes, it has chart numbers in the Top 20 in the UK and US but as far as product moved, it doesn't look like a successful launch. Nothing to do with the quality of the material, just a matter of promotion and having to compete against a resurgence in you own prior works. The lack of product presence in Japan, the second largest music consumer in the world is a bit disheartening.
Things may shake out differently next week and I'll make another assessment then.

Oh, please, this album is selling like a CD that has been out for a month or so. You'll be lucky if it is in the top 40 in the US. It has nothing to do with promotion. Nobody wants this CD...the ones who do have already got their copy...or will soon. This thing is going to plummet in sales down to the few thousand per week VERY quickly.

How can anyone buy something if they don't know about it?

And in some cases ... not even available! Monker is, and has always been, a complete dumbfuck.

Disagree with that. Back in the bulletin board days, I got so much of my Jrny fix from Monker's board. My perception is that he was quite the dude back then. It took dialing up on a 14.4 modem to get there, but cool stuff.

Just a hater now, really is a shame.

You probably mean Skylorde's forum. The only forum I owned I didn't have the time to put into it and it didn't go anywhere. I did own the mailing list for a number of years...and I did help create alt.music.journey.

As for being a 'hater', you can believe what you want to believe....doesn't matter one way way or the other.

Yes, Skylorde's forum! Man, it was great to find others who shared my love for the band's music. You were a Jrny stalwart in that time, when we hadn't had any new music in 10 years and only band acrimony. Rough days...

You used to take care of the PerryHeads in a way that suggested to me you'd have an open mind about the band's changes and be accepting of new music, even if it's not Chalfant & Escape v2. Imho, you're being tough on folks here that just want new music from a band they love and hope for it's success in market.

[Eric]

Yes, Skylorde's forum! Man, it was great to find others who shared my love for the band's music. You were a Jrny stalwart in that time, when we hadn't had any new music in 10 years and only band acrimony. Rough days... You used to take care of the PerryHeads in a way that suggested to me you'd accept the band's changes and be accepting of new music, even if it's not Chalfant & Escape v2. Imho, you're being tough on folks here that just want new music from a band they love.

Exactly how I feel. I have new music from my favorite band and its #13 on Billboard. I'll take it.

I wonder how many more copies would have sold if people who just listened to it or its clips for free, refusing to pay for a cheap album from a band they talk about every day would have actually purchased it?

[Jana]

I was just at my local WalMart. They are stocked with the new CD, and unless they replenished the bin, it doesn't look like anything has moved from it. They also had Revelation and Live from Manilla stacked below it. As I'm looking at the CD rack, something hit me....the new cover is very muted and bland. Unlike all previous CDs that featured a colorful scarab, this new cover is very blah. Not even a colorful sticker teasing it as a new product. It's not a traditional eye-catching Journey cover and this could have a major effect on the casual shopper. Identity is a major part of branding and without that trademark scarab hitting you in the face, it's no surprise that people could just be breezing past it.

I agree. I said this, too. The way it looked when we first saw it, the part that was depicting almost an eclipse of the sun looked oranger against black. I thought it looked great. The real product is blander in color. It would have been more dramatic and the boldness would have made it stand out. Good design cover, but the colors are too muted, especially for such a thin disk holder. It needed to pop on the racks.

[Jana]

Yes, Skylorde's forum! Man, it was great to find others who shared my love for the band's music. You were a Jrny stalwart in that time, when we hadn't had any new music in 10 years and only band acrimony. Rough days... You used to take care of the PerryHeads in a way that suggested to me you'd accept the band's changes and be accepting of new music, even if it's not Chalfant & Escape v2. Imho, you're being tough on folks here that just want new music from a band they love.

Exactly how I feel. I have new music from my favorite band and its #13 on Billboard. I'll take it.

I wonder how many more copies would have sold if people who just listened to it or its clips for free, refusing to pay for a cheap album from a band they talk about every day would have actually purchased it?

100 more. That wasn't the problem. Marketing, no one knowing about the new album in the general casual fanbase was the problem.

[Don]

Anyone who would like the disc in the original Jewel case, you can buy the Mexican import for 9 dollars plus three dollars shipping on Ebay. It was released by Scarecrow Records down there.

[Saint John]

Just reported 8k. Ouch. Gonna be tough to crack 10k for the week it appears.

[Don]

Just reported 8k. Ouch. Gonna be tough to crack 10k for the week it appears.

If these aren't padded already, look for Wal-Mart to add a few more thousand by Thursday. That's why Billboard wouldn't chart Wal-Mart exclusives until the Eagles made a big stink about it.
When you promise artists that you will help them move stock, real numbers get kind of fuzzy when they're lower than expected.

Look for Eclipse to lose some shelf space to Mirrorball this week unless Def Leppard get their own Kiosk.

[Monker]

Just reported 8k. Ouch. Gonna be tough to crack 10k for the week it appears.

If these aren't padded already, look for Wal-Mart to add a few more thousand by Thursday. That's why Billboard wouldn't chart Wal-Mart exclusives until the Eagles made a big stink about it.
When you promise artists that you will help them move stock, real numbers get kind of fuzzy when they're lower than expected.

Look for Eclipse to lose some shelf space to Mirrorball this week unless Def Leppard get their own Kiosk.

And, tell me, what is going to happen to those CD's that are no longer 'on the shelf', as they were replaced by DL?