Why is everyone Ignoring this?

[Rockindeano]

If you don't believe this Barb, why are spending hours on a message Board?

[r@y]

I want the name of the original bootleger where when and how he taped the thing and the original, unaltered tape. You think a bootlegger is going to provide that? He'd be insane to unless he wants to be prosecuted.

Hey Grissom,

You want each evidence packed and labeled in separate bags..???

Greg

He asked what kind of evidence I wanted. I set forth what actual evidence would be. Of course no one can get that. That's why this is all so ridiculous.

And now I've read at least 3 "experts" saying various things about how you can or cannot do various things with boots to tell if they are real, unaltered, etc. So the other thing that would be needed is an actual expert. But let's forget any proof or evidence--everyone just believe Dean. He's honest, right? I mean it's just the career of a man. Why do you need actual proof?

Do you actually think Dean would go thru all this shit, just for fucks...????

Dude's been posting here for a long time, and you think he'd do all this with the sole-purpose of bringing down a man's career...? A man who, up till late last year, Dean stood up like hell for..???


Ray

[Journey/Survivor]

Hey Barb, listen....I hear an ambulance, go chase it.

Leave your courtroom shit out of this..always seeking a technicality, or a loophole.

Career of a man? Fuck him. I hope he never works again in this business after what he is pulling.

OK. I'm done with you. I should have known better than to acutally use reason. Knock yourself out if you think actual evidence is "a technicality".

That's because that's all they can do, argue their stupid BS claims. They don't have anything else so they just come on here and insult people and spread their lies.

You can't reason with them and I can't reason with them because their not reasonable people.

[Rockindeano]

We HAVE presented evidence.

You haven't presented ANYTHING.

[LAWoman]

So you really don't want the proof now that you know it can be provided??

You ask for something and then threatened to turn in the person who would give you what you ask for?? LOL!!

You very self righteously claim you don't associate with "communities" that are doing something illegal yet you associate yourself with people who for weeks have been coming in here posting people's names and home addresses on an internet message board??? Threatening them with bodily harm??? If you are as smart as you want people to think you are, then you know that is also against the law so your hands are already dirty.

Actually, he was conceding he had no proof but he'd go "make" some.

BTW, I had nothing to do with anyone who put up anyone's address. I read that thread apparently after it was all done so I have no idea who was doing what to whom. That's kind of irrelevant to the subject of proof of these allegations though, isn't it?

[odessa]

The band obviously does not care what anyone thinks or says regarding this matter. How much proof do fans need? The band is going along their merry way, not even talking to the media about this. Why vehemently defend the band when they have not asked or expected anyone to do so? Perhaps the band does not want any discussion or assistance from their fans on the matter? Perhaps they want the fans to follow their example and ignore the controversy, as they are?

If I feel I have not done anything wrong, nor committed any crime, then why do I need a defense or defenders to take up some cause on my behalf ? The Defenders would do me more harm than good, since this is not even an issue in my mind. Perhaps that’s how the band feels. Have the fans thought about that? If the band made a statement, then I could understand, but they haven’t, we must draw our own conclusions. They don’t care what Deano (or others) say about them, not even what the press says...so why should you?

[nolippin]

It is relevant to your pious claim, I believe, because you came in here "participating" with those very people.

"And as for discrediting a "community" I don't really care to participate in a "community" that goes against the specific wishes of artists (and commits crimes also, btw)."

So you really don't want the proof now that you know it can be provided??

You ask for something and then threatened to turn in the person who would give you what you ask for?? LOL!!

You very self righteously claim you don't associate with "communities" that are doing something illegal yet you associate yourself with people who for weeks have been coming in here posting people's names and home addresses on an internet message board??? Threatening them with bodily harm??? If you are as smart as you want people to think you are, then you know that is also against the law so your hands are already dirty.

Actually, he was conceding he had no proof but he'd go "make" some.

BTW, I had nothing to do with anyone who put up anyone's address. I read that thread apparently after it was all done so I have no idea who was doing what to whom. That's kind of irrelevant to the subject of proof of these allegations though, isn't it?

[Rockindeano]

The band obviously does not care what anyone thinks or says regarding this matter.

Stupidest post of all time. I have it on record they were shitting themselves last weekend. They want you to think they don't care, trust me, they do.

Perhaps the band does not want any discussion or assistance from their fans on the matter? Perhaps they want the fans to follow their example and ignore the controversy, as they are?

Then why did Mgt instruct BT to open a thread up over there and flood the place with positivity? And also plead the fans to come over here and spread the good word? Yes, 100% that was orchestrated.

They don’t care what Deano (or others) say about them, not even what the press says...so why should you?

Yes they do. When this gets even more out there, and fellow musicians see this...they will care. They will be flatout embarrassed.

[JrnySuxBalls]

Actually, he was conceding he had no proof but he'd go "make" some.

No, you were implying you think every bootleg is "altered" to ruin the
reputation of Steve Augeri & Journey. I was willing to show you proof
that nothing was doctored, then let you hear the recordings. To which
you were unwilling to participate.

If you don't trust a taper you don't know, then follow the process from
beginning to end to insure nothing was "fixed". I've been a professional
musician for many years, with alot of recording experience, I know what
I'm doing, and I also know what I'm hearing. I know a duplicate performance
when I hear one. Especially when they're running simultanously.

It's not rocket science.

I've met Steve, he's a great guy. He's also lip syncing.

[odessa]

The band obviously does not care what anyone thinks or says regarding this matter.

Stupidest post of all time. I have it on record they were shitting themselves last weekend. They want you to think they don't care, trust me, they do.

Perhaps the band does not want any discussion or assistance from their fans on the matter? Perhaps they want the fans to follow their example and ignore the controversy, as they are?

Then why did Mgt instruct BT to open a thread up over there and flood the place with positivity? And also plead the fans to come over here and spread the good word? Yes, 100% that was orchestrated.

They don’t care what Deano (or others) say about them, not even what the press says...so why should you?

Yes they do. When this gets even more out there, and fellow musicians see this...they will care. They will be flatout embarrassed.

Dean, my post was directed to your ACCUSERS -the ones who vehemently defending the band and feel the band has done nothing wrong. The ones who have been screaming at you. It was not directed at you.

Since you feel me standing up for you was stupid, I won’t argue with you on that account.

[Journey/Survivor]

I have it on record they were shitting themselves last weekend.
They want you to think they don't care, trust me, they do. Then why did Mgt instruct BT to open a thread up over there and flood the place with positivity? And also plead the fans to come over here and spread the good word? Yes, 100% that was orchestrated.

First of all how do you have it on record that they were "shitting themselves last week?"

As far as whether or not management told them to open that thread or not I don't know. But I was not told or asked by anyone at all to come over here and argue.

I have been checking out the front page of this thread for a couple of years now, but until last week I did not even know that there are message boards on this site. Last week I heard that the Journey message board on this site was closed down. Since I was just finding out that there are message boards on here I decided to check them out. It was at that time that I first heard anything about these claims of lip-syncing.

Completely on my own I signed up and have been posting!
I am actually under the impression (I don't know whether this is the case or not) that the moderators at Back Talk would be just as happy if no-one did even bother arguing with the idiots who are spreading these rumors?

I can tell you that IMHO they did not ask anyone to come over here to defend Journey.

[Journey/Survivor]

The band obviously does not care what anyone thinks or says regarding this matter. How much proof do fans need? The band is going along their merry way, not even talking to the media about this. Why vehemently defend the band when they have not asked or expected anyone to do so? Perhaps the band does not want any discussion or assistance from their fans on the matter? Perhaps they want the fans to follow their example and ignore the controversy, as they are?

If I feel I have not done anything wrong, nor committed any crime, then why do I need a defense or defenders to take up some cause on my behalf ? The Defenders would do me more harm than good, since this is not even an issue in my mind. Perhaps that’s how the band feels. Have the fans thought about that? If the band made a statement, then I could understand, but they haven’t, we must draw our own conclusions. They don’t care what Deano (or others) say about them, not even what the press says...so why should you?

I need to make perfectly clear that I am not saying this, and that I do not believe it to be true by any means at all

But I have heard (I don't know if it's true or just a rumor) that the actor Charlie Sheen is telling people that he thinks that the man at the top of the US government is the person who planed the attacks on Sep-11 in NY and DC.

I do NOT believe that to be true myself, but supposedly Charlie Sheen is saying that?

Now I have not heard the top man in the US government even bother to respond to those accusations. And why should he? You can't waste everybodys time by responding to every nut who makes false accusations!!!

As as been said many times on here, but you choose to ignore it, if Journey respond to one nut-jobs BS accusations then they would be opening the door for every other nut-job who wants to make-up BS about them.

Journey or any other band for that matter would be stupid to respond to these BS claims that are being made by Deano!

[whocares]

j/s this is the band's livelyhood, I'm sure they don't want to give it up. By NOT saying anything officially, they are screwing themselves out of a LOT more money, by "TRUE FANS" that are wondering what the hell is up.

Personally, I think it stinks that this is happening, but I wnat to know for myself if it is. "Just because other people do it, doesn't make it right. This isn't Simon Says or follow the leader. Not on this board. Most people can actually make up their own minds, no matter which side they are on. It's when the onslaught of BT'ers come over you included on your own or not, and say, don't be saying shit about OUR Journey, that you make yourselves and the rest of the clan over there, look like as big of fools as you try to make EVERYONE here wanting to know if it's true or not, to be.

The people that don't believe it COULD happen with their band are rapidly losing the arguments, because they live in a fairytale world, where it's been said over and over, that THEIR guys can't do any wrong no matter what.

[odessa]

The band obviously does not care what anyone thinks or says regarding this matter. How much proof do fans need? The band is going along their merry way, not even talking to the media about this. Why vehemently defend the band when they have not asked or expected anyone to do so? Perhaps the band does not want any discussion or assistance from their fans on the matter? Perhaps they want the fans to follow their example and ignore the controversy, as they are?

If I feel I have not done anything wrong, nor committed any crime, then why do I need a defense or defenders to take up some cause on my behalf ? The Defenders would do me more harm than good, since this is not even an issue in my mind. Perhaps that’s how the band feels. Have the fans thought about that? If the band made a statement, then I could understand, but they haven’t, we must draw our own conclusions. They don’t care what Deano (or others) say about them, not even what the press says...so why should you?

I need to make perfectly clear that I am not saying this, and that I do not believe it to be true by any means at all

But I have heard (I don't know if it's true or just a rumor) that the actor Charlie Sheen is telling people that he thinks that the man at the top of the US government is the person who planed the attacks on Sep-11 in NY and DC.

I do NOT believe that to be true myself, but supposedly Charlie Sheen is saying that?

Now I have not heard the top man in the US government even bother to respond to those accusations. And why should he? You can't waste everybodys time by responding to every nut who makes false accusations!!!

As as been said many times on here, but you choose to ignore it, if Journey respond to one nut-jobs BS accusations then they would be opening the door for every other nut-job who wants to make-up BS about them.

Journey or any other band for that matter would be stupid to respond to these BS claims that are being made by Deano!

If (you think) the band is "stupid" to respond to the reports, then someone needs to tell the radio station that and let the public think what they wish. I can tell you it will not be good.

If the band is not bothered by what Deano is doing, then why are fans mad with him and giving him death threats?

I don’t care what you think. The media is now looking for comment on the allegations and making note that the band is saying nothing. The band should be dealing with the issue and make a statement or give some kind of response. Saying nothing looks bad and allows negative impressions to be formed.

If Deano has had no impact whatsoever, you would not need to keep disputing what he says. No one would, they would ignore him. Obviously, he is not being ignored by the media or you, so what does that say? Rockn’deano’s site is being noted as the place for people to go read the allegations by the news stations. That is damaging

The fans can fight all they want. If the band has not said anything, then fans should not care what Deano does or does not do. The band will make him into a celebrity if bigger new stations ask for him as a guest. Since the band refuses to say anything, the media may go to Dean for comment. It will then escalate into a situation where he cannot be ignored. I guess that’s what they want because that is what they will get. They need to address this matter and stop the fan fighting.

FYI- A comment was made about Oprah Winfrey by someone on a Entertainment Newsgroup that is read by a lot of reporters. No one took it seriously on the group. The next night she made a speech to a packed house of movers and shakers. No one knew why she addressed it. She did it because it could have got out of hand. She wanted it stopped. It’s called damage control. You may not see the bigger implication here, she did. This little situation may start with Journey and become bigger. People will want to know who else is doing this.

I don’t understand why you feel you need to fight the bands battles? Are you their PR or on their legal team? Have they asked you to fight Dean on this? If they have not, then why do you care what people think, why bother? Why keep posting a defense? Perhaps the man/lady doth protest too much It seems to me that they (the band) do not care that the fans are fighting at all. Unless, the fans see Dean as a threat that is making headway towards his goals and want to stop him on the band's behalf!

I have read the reasons you (and others give) in the bands defense. I don't agree with you at all! I want something with more substance to it. So if I ignore your defense, it’s because I don't buy it. I am still waiting for the band's PR to officially address the issue- not fans who want to speak on the bands behalf. What you say is of no interest to me. I've seen what I have seen. Now, I want to hear what the band has to say officially. If the band decides to keep quiet, then I ( like the rest of the general public) will believe the worst until someone says something.....Sorry

[JrnySuxBalls]

Hard to say, but it sounds like the band is keeping quiet hoping it'll all
blow over, not hit the mainstream and that everyone will forget about it.

I wanted to hear from them early on, now it really doesn't matter.

[odessa]

Hard to say, but it sounds like the band is keeping quiet hoping it'll all
blow over, not hit the mainstream and that everyone will forget about it.

I wanted to hear from them early on, now it really doesn't matter.

The problem I have is that; it’s not just Dean saying this. The Swedish Engineer seems like a very rational individual. He hasn't fought with anyone. I have read what Jeremy and other’s have said. I have no reason to doubt them. I have heard nothing from the other side that has convinced me of anything.

If Oprah could address a nonsense comment (that has no merit) then Journey can do so too! Tom Cruise is notorious for threatening to sue when anything negative is said by anyone anywhere and demands retractions. The PR machines spin overtime. The big difference with this case is that, this is no simple nonsense comment or negative statement.

The media is picking this up like a wild fire. The band says nothing, yet fans are making threats to Dean over this! This is looking bad. It seems like this band will keep playing while the ship sinks with them still in it. They will worry when it hits the mainstream big time and the dollars stop rolling in-believe me. But you know what, it’s getting to the point where I will feel exactly as you do.

What started to turn me off were the threats here from someone who says he knows the band and the baiting from another female(?) individual. That turned me off big time. The band could have stopped this.

I wish them luck in this mess.

[JrnySuxBalls]

The band says nothing, yet fans are making threats to Dean over this!

What started to turn me off were the threats here from someone who says he knows the band and the baiting from another female(?) individual. That turned me off big time.

Really threats are being made? Wow. I thought all those fans were so "positive",
believing in family & the "heartland" and all. Then again,
I've seen some of them at shows, after a few of those oversized blue
drinks. Definitely not warm & fuzzy that's for sure.

[swepett]

Where is the original tape.

THAT is so easy to trace.

At Dime they always list the taper. No one alters anything, and if so they
would most likely be banned for life.

Yeah, that's quite some quality control. Banned for life from a bootleg site. I know it's pristine just because they always are. That's proof to you?

Actually, I think most people involved with Dime would be offended if someone calls it a bootleg site.

As for the legality, check their FAQ:

http://wiki.dimeadozen.org/index.php/DimeFAQ:Frequently_Asked_Questions#Is_this_site_legal.3F

[Monker]

What the **** you all want for evidence? Tell me, I'll get it.

Almost ALL of this is based on crappy audience bootlegs. Basing ANY analysis on this is garbage, IMO. Whether it be with a trained ear or some computer program. Garbage in, garbage out...And, I don't care if it's Jeremy or RVR doing the analysis - it's worthless because of the source.

The ONLY real evidence in this entire scandal is Svante's 'testimony' about the radio show recording. I don't know when this radio show was broadcast, but if people look hard enough, they should be able to get the CD's that were sent to radio stations...try Goldmine magazine. If a person can analyze that CD, then you will have something real - instead of a bunch of OPINIONS about bootlegs.

If that is not possible (yeah, right), then somebody within Journey's camp will have to admit to doing it.

These are the only ways you will get me into believing this is more then just a bunch of people who have too much time on their hands and are taking bootlegs WAY too seriously.

[StyxCollector]

Bootlegs are about as honest as it gets, as it presents the band as it sounds out in the audience. Legalities aside, unless you get an undoctored soundboard recording, all bets are off from official releases.

The Swedish show as has been said many times will used the fixed feed, not the one they heard in the truck, so the broadcast isn't what you need. The feed in the truck wasn't approved for use.

[conversationpc]

Almost ALL of this is based on crappy audience bootlegs. Basing ANY analysis on this is garbage, IMO. Whether it be with a trained ear or some computer program. Garbage in, garbage out...And, I don't care if it's Jeremy or RVR doing the analysis - it's worthless because of the source...

The ONLY real evidence in this entire scandal is Svante's 'testimony' about the radio show recording. I don't know when this radio show was broadcast, but if people look hard enough, they should be able to get the CD's that were sent to radio stations...try Goldmine magazine. If a person can analyze that CD, then you will have something real - instead of a bunch of OPINIONS about bootlegs.

If that is not possible (yeah, right), then somebody within Journey's camp will have to admit to doing it.

These are the only ways you will get me into believing this is more then just a bunch of people who have too much time on their hands and are taking bootlegs WAY too seriously.

Dang! I need to go to the doctor. I've agreed with a Monker post twice now in the last week. I must be sick...

[swepett]

The ONLY real evidence in this entire scandal is Svante's 'testimony' about the radio show recording. I don't know when this radio show was broadcast, but if people look hard enough, they should be able to get the CD's that were sent to radio stations...try Goldmine magazine.

*sigh* Some people here are as bad as the BT'ers when it comes to remembering, or is it even reading, other posts.

* The show on Swedish Radio has not been broadcast yet. It will be broadcast near the end of October.
* If Journey hasn't stopped it yet, the thing that will be broadcast is Elson's mix, the one with the corrected vocals.
* CDs are not sent to radio stations. This is Swedish National Radio. The concerts are recorded by the radio, kept inside the organisation and broadcast all over the country. Our radio does not work as US radio with a lot of local stations broadcasting the show for their area.
* Once the show is broadcast, anyone can record the show off radio, or listen to the show on the webb for one week after the show.

Bonus information: That red piano Cain is using? It's empty. They carry cables in it.

[Jeremey]

The Swedish show as has been said many times will used the fixed feed, not the one they heard in the truck, so the broadcast isn't what you need. The feed in the truck wasn't approved for use.

The sweden broadcast IS what you need, because that will be the corrected vocals, which should match up with Augeri's other vocal lines from other concerts. Perhaps the officially released Vegas DVD audio. Which is why I am doubtful the sweden broadcast will be released...We'll see in October, I guess.

[Monker]

Bootlegs are about as honest as it gets, as it presents the band as it sounds out in the audience.

They are also about as crappy as it gets. The sound quality of audience recorded boots SUCK. If you want me to believe some type of analysis of an audience recorded bootleg, fine, get the guys who analyzed the JFK tapes for that extra rifle...otherwise, it's just a bunch of opinions from people who are NOT professionaly trained to do that analysis making their best guess.

unless you get an undoctored soundboard recording, all bets are off from official releases.

EXACTLY! That's why I am more interested in the radio show...That IS a soundboard recording. If it matches up with the 2001 DVD, then Dean scores. If not, then Svante had wax in his ears and this is completely pointless.

The Swedish show as has been said many times will used the fixed feed, not the one they heard in the truck, so the broadcast isn't what you need. The feed in the truck wasn't approved for use.

That's not what I am reading.

[Monker]

* Once the show is broadcast, anyone can record the show off radio, or listen to the show on the webb for one week after the show.

Fine, post a link to the stream, when it's available. That will do.

But, I am sure this will be on CD in Goldmine as well...dubbed off the radio broadcast.

[*Laura]

* The show on Swedish Radio has not been broadcast yet. It will be broadcast near the end of October.

* If Journey hasn't stopped it yet, the thing that will be broadcast is Elson's mix, the one with the corrected vocals.

That's right.I have a strange feeling that someone will stop that show being broadcasted in October.Just think...The cat would be out of the bag.

Bonus information: That red piano Cain is using? It's empty. They carry cables in it.

Omg! The Whale is dead??

[Liz22562]

Good lord no, the whale isn't dead. It's just Jon using fake fingers.

[whocares]

Hell, Even Oprah was smart enough not to end everything right away about James Frey. She milked it for all it was worth in the ratings. No one can say she didn't make a boatload off the controversy surrounding what happened on her show. The guys in the band may as well milk it for what is left, you never know when it will all come crumbling down.

[ohsherrie]

I wonder why all the defenders of this lallegation, er, deed, hasn't responded to Jeremy's thread? A certified, unbiased professional engineer, mixer, voice artist takes two hours and analyzes shows...and yet NO ONE here will go in that thread and talk about it.

IMO it's because some of them don't really care. They go to the shows to party and come on here to argue because they don't want the party to end. Others of them are afraid to even accept the possibility that it could be true because they don't think they could handle the truth. They want to just ignore it and pretend all is as they want to believe it is and come on here to argue hoping to keep it from becoming impossible to ignore.

There's nothing wrong with either of those reasons if it makes them happy. Coming on here making hostile personal remarks and threats to those who can see what's really happening, and suggesting absurd alternatives to the reality of it(like the cds being doctored, or a Perry fan conspiracy)though, that's just absurdly juvenile.

[Liz22562]

And some of us just want to listen to the band without getting bashed because we enjoy the music.