Question for Deano?

[Saint John]

Please don't insult me..........Deen has been singing and so has Jon throughout the years. In fact Neal sang last tour, In Self Defense, from the Generations cd.

You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

*peace*

Deen, Jon and Neal sang last year because it was a 3 hour show. This year the set is MUCH shorter...80 minutes to be exact. If Augeri's voice were ok or they weren't trying to hide something, there's no way they'd let Deen sing 4 songs and Jon 1. Let's do the math...Deen's 4 songs, about 18 minutes (4 and a half minutes each). Jon's song, about 4 and a half minutes. Neals solo, about 3 minutes. Jon's solo, about 2 minutes. That's about 30 minutes out of an 80 minute show. And why didn't Deen sing the ballads in Europe...because he didn't have to...they were using tapes. When they went live on the U.S. leg of the tour they lightened Augeri's workload by cutting as much of his singing time as possible. *peace*

[MCC620]

Please don't insult me..........Deen has been singing and so has Jon throughout the years. In fact Neal sang last tour, In Self Defense, from the Generations cd.

You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

*peace*

Deen, Jon and Neal sang last year because it was a 3 hour show. This year the set is MUCH shorter...80 minutes to be exact. If Augeri's voice were ok or they weren't trying to hide something, there's no way they'd let Deen sing 4 songs and Jon 1. Let's do the math...Deen's 4 songs, about 18 minutes (4 and a half minutes each). Jon's song, about 4 and a half minutes. Neals solo, about 3 minutes. Jon's solo, about 2 minutes. That's about 30 minutes out of an 80 minute show. And why didn't Deen sing the ballads in Europe...because he didn't have to...they were using tapes. When they went live on the U.S. leg of the tour they lightened Augeri's workload by cutting as much of his singing time as possible. *peace*

Deen's been singing since 2003. Yes last year was a 3-hour show so everyone sang. But it was continued this tour because Mother Father is a fan favorite and Every Generation is on the newer cd. Deen only started singing the ballads, Open Arms and Fauithfully from Steve's last show on. In terms of the US shows, since they were cut down to 80 minutes it seems rather than do the standard "dirty dozen" they tried to include some fan favorites like Mother Father and Edge of The Blade, which Steve sang in Mohegan. You see it as cutting Steve's workload, I see it as not doing the standard "dirty dozen" that everyone always complains about.

[Rockindeano]

Can I answer the question, that was posed to me?

Thanks.

Augeri will never see a stage again with Journey, and probably never at all. Saint John basically answered correctly.

It wouldn't be so shameful had Augeri had been a man about it, and stood up to the band when he knew he was toast. I already said had I known about the tape thing earlier last year, I would have not brought it up, because Journey earned a free pass on their 30th Anniversary tour...However, they are greedy fuckers, and tried to go out again, using the same fucking tape as last year! Hell, had they had thrpwn another one together, the scent would have thrown off the dogs....but....here's the kicker. They don't have any good live performances to thieve from..hell, Vegas 2001 wasn't even "live!" In Manchester, they had Chain Reaction, EOTB, Dead or Alive and others..all pre-canned for this moment.

To those who don't believe me, fine, I don't care. You are all so brainwashed, the truth will never enter into your minds.

The ONLY thing I don't know for certain is when Jeff will be officially welcomed into the band.

[FormerJrnyFan]

... The ONLY thing I don't know for certain is when Jeff will be officially welcomed into the band.

Not soon enough IMO

[Lula]

Can I answer the question, that was posed to me?

Thanks.

Took you long enough

[Rockindeano]

Some of us have actual jobs...not some cublicle which masks as a workstation when it really is a MR link up desk.

[Lula]

I don't have a cubicle

[RossValoryRocks]

Sooooooo, if you believe Augeri is returning, prove it to US .


.

That could be the most moronic statement ever made on these forums...and there have been many moronic statements...

#1 You cannot prove a negative...it's impossible to do...
#2 There is as much burden of of proof on you and everyone else who says Steve Augeri isn't returning.

And before you go off half-cocked and say I am nuts thinking Augeri is coming back, I am not...I have no valid reason to think he isn't...nor any valid reason to think he is either...so I am taking the middle road of "We'll see".

But for God's sake LEARN how to debate...before you make assinine statements like that.

[Rockindeano]

Stu, there is no debate.

He ain't comin back. To think so puts you in BT mode.....I don't want to explain exactly what that is.

Stu, I will bet you 500 dollars, (USD), not pesos, Augeri is never coming back. Deal?

[knox]

If it were possible to prove that we can't prove a negative, then the existence of the proof would defeat the claim, because we would have proven a negative.

I can prove plenty of negatives!

I can prove that a rock will NOT stay in the air when I let it go.

I can prove that that a piece of steel will NOT remain in stasis if I submerge it in a slolution of salt water.

I can prove that a dollar will NOT stay in my possesion if I trade it for some peanut M&Ms.

And you can prove that Augeri will NOT stay out of Journey by telling me when he is reinstated.

Don't try to go brain to brain with me - I am extremely intelligent and have a Bachelor of Science diploma hanging on my wall to prove it .


I don't know what physics, chemistry, or philosophy classes you took in college, but they certainly weren't the same ones I took.

[Lula]

Knox, I could use your brain for teaching physical science. Abstract concepts are extremely difficult to teach to developmentally delayed children.

[RossValoryRocks]

If it were possible to prove that we can't prove a negative, then the existence of the proof would defeat the claim, because we would have proven a negative.

I can prove plenty of negatives!

I can prove that a rock will NOT stay in the air when I let it go.

I can prove that that a piece of steel will NOT remain in stasis if I submerge it in a slolution of salt water.

I can prove that a dollar will NOT stay in my possesion if I trade it for some peanut M&Ms.

And you can prove that Augeri will NOT stay out of Journey by telling me when he is reinstated.

Don't try to go brain to brain with me - I am extremely intelligent and have a Bachelor of Science diploma hanging on my wall to prove it .


I don't know what physics, chemistry, or philosophy classes you took in college, but they certainly weren't the same ones I took.

OOOOOHHHH A BS Degree...I have two of those...one in Chemistry...one in Biology...plus a Masters in Information Technology as well as a MBA. So whatever one sheepskin you have means nothing.

There is NO LOGICAL way to prove a negative...PERIOD...anyone who has more than a passing knowledge of debate knows this.

[knox]

That's right, baby!

I study physics and chemistry for fun, and read philosophy for bed time stories .

It is impossible to prove that you CAN'T prove a negative.

beat that!

[knox]

As it happens, there really isn't such a thing as a "purely" negative statement, because every negative entails a positive, and vice versa. Thus, "there are no crows in this box" entails "this box contains something other than crows" (in the sense that even "no things" is something, e.g. a vacuum)

[Monker]

If it were possible to prove that we can't prove a negative, then the existence of the proof would defeat the claim, because we would have proven a negative.

RVR is almost, but not quite, absolutely correct.

Prove to me that aliens didn't kidnap Steve Perry...as was a theory presented by a very well known Journey fan, who wasn't me.

You can't.

Where RVR is wrong is saying you have as much burden of proof as the 'other side'. Not true. YOU, a some others, are drawing conclusions and claiming them as facts written in stone. When you do that, the burden of proof is on YOU, nobody else.

I can prove that a rock will NOT stay in the air when I let it go.

I can prove that that a piece of steel will NOT remain in stasis if I submerge it in a slolution of salt water.

I can prove that a dollar will NOT stay in my possesion if I trade it for some peanut M&Ms.

And you can prove that Augeri will NOT stay out of Journey by telling me when he is reinstated.

Nobody is disputing those claims. You are taking something debatable and saying "prove me wrong". That's not the way it works. Prove yourself right.

I don't know what physics, chemistry, or philosophy classes you took in college, but they certainly weren't the same ones I took.

Obviously not, because you don't know the difference between a fact and opinion.

[conversationpc]

Thus, "there are no crows in this box" entails "this box contains something other than crows" (in the sense that even "no things" is something, e.g. a vacuum)

Actually, a true vacuum is the absence of all things. Therefore "no things" cannot be something.

[Rockindeano]

If you guys want to throw around values, formulas and othe chemistry/science shit, here's one for you.

In my ordeal in Deano v Steve Augeri, I had a "idea/interest"...which in turn became a "theory," which when proven, became "fact.".

Stu, why was that whole episode so tough to prove to people? It really was quite easy to see.

[Monker]

Thus, "there are no crows in this box" entails "this box contains something other than crows" (in the sense that even "no things" is something, e.g. a vacuum)

Actually, a true vacuum is the absence of all things. Therefore "no things" cannot be something.

But, one of the latest theories is that a vacuum itself has physical properties and characteristics. Therefore, space itself can not produce a true 'vacuum', or absense of all things...because a vacuum IS a 'thing'.

[knox]

Monker, you have no idea what you are even talking about.

Facts are merely opinions that have been proven - period.

Here is a proven negative - 5 does NOT equal 4.

As of RIGHT NOW, Augeri is not coming back to Journey. How do I know this? Because Jeff is finishing the tour.

Can I prove that Augeri will never be back? No.

Can you prove that he will? No.

However, the burden of proof IS on you, because the positive statement is that Augeri is NOT in Journey, and Soto IS in Journey. I can prove the negative of Augeri NOT returning by each concert that Soto does. Where is your proof that he IS returning? It certainly is not in performances.

(Wow, this is fun!)


Edit: Monker, your statement about the vacuum being something is correct. I retract my opening statement.

[yulog]

i dont know if Augeri is returning or not but tyey just redid the front page and it includes pictures of the band pre -Soto not that they couldnt change it again but i dont know why they would change the front page in the middle like they have

[Monker]

If you guys want to throw around values, formulas and othe chemistry/science shit, here's one for you.

In my ordeal in Deano v Steve Augeri, I had a "idea/interest"...which in turn became a "theory," which when proven, became "fact.".

Stu, why was that whole episode so tough to prove to people? It really was quite easy to see.

That is the entire problem...Your 'theory' was NEVER proven. It's like saying aliens are 'facts' because certain say they've seen them, met then, had anal probes with them...It is NOT a fact because there is no evidence, just a theory that some over-zealous people completely by into. They grasp anything they can and say it is 'proof'...But, the 'proof' itself is debatable and there is NO real hard evidence to back it up. Your bootlegs are your version of an anal probe, IMO.

When Svante gives a link to his radio show, then you'll have something real. Or, if somebody close enough to the band to REALLY know says something, then you'll have something.

[conversationpc]

Monker, you have no idea what you are even talking about.

Actually, Monker is quite right. You can't prove that Perry was not kidnapped by aliens.

But, one of the latest theories is that a vacuum itself has physical properties and characteristics. Therefore, space itself can not produce a true 'vacuum', or absense of all things...because a vacuum IS a 'thing'.

By the very definition of a true vacuum, it cannot be a 'thing'. It is only a word to describe an absence of all things. Now, whether a true vacuum can actually exist or not is another story, altogether.

[roycap]

Deano,

Answer the question! We know your feelings on the band and the use of tapes. However, you continue to state Augeri is out. I have no idea whether that is the case or not.

My question is if this is the case, why keep up the charade that he is still a member of the band?

[knox]

I would say the boots pretty much proved everything.

Of course, you are either a conspiracy theorist in that the boots are faked, or a conspiracy theorist in that the boots are legit.

Either way, we are on opposite sides of the fence. You can't prove they AREN'T legit, now can you?

[RossValoryRocks]

If you guys want to throw around values, formulas and othe chemistry/science shit, here's one for you.

In my ordeal in Deano v Steve Augeri, I had a "idea/interest"...which in turn became a "theory," which when proven, became "fact.".

Stu, why was that whole episode so tough to prove to people? It really was quite easy to see.

People see what they want to see. :::shrug:::

I dunno. The tape thing is pretty much a given.

[knox]

The absence of everything is still something - it is the absence of everything.

[knox]

Ross, sign me up for your chapter of PETA .

[Monker]

Monker, you have no idea what you are even talking about.

Facts are merely opinions that have been proven - period.

Here is a proven negative - 5 does NOT equal 4.

You are confusing the scientific process with debate. Again, nobody is debating 5 = 4. At least not yet. Hopefully, froy doesn't read this thread.

As of RIGHT NOW, Augeri is not coming back to Journey.

PROVE IT. I don't believe you can.

Can I prove that Augeri will never be back? No.

Can you prove that he will? No.

EXACTLY...But, in the quote above - you are saying he won't. So, Mr. Factman, which is the fact, that he WON'T BE BACK...or that you DON'T KNOW if he will or not? You can't have it both ways. Well, I spose you can try...but you sound like a complete moron when you do.

However, the burden of proof IS on you, because the positive statement is that Augeri is NOT in Journey, and Soto IS in Journey.

So, what? That doesn't mean that Augeri won't be back next month, or next year, or five years from now. YOU are saying he won't...but then you say you don't know. Which is it?

I can prove the negative of Augeri NOT returning by each concert that Soto does. Where is your proof that he IS returning? It certainly is not in performances.

Again, that's not up to me. You are claiming "As of right now, Augeri is not coming back to Journey." You don't know that....as you admit above.

[knox]

Actually, Monker is quite right. You can't prove that Perry was not kidnapped by aliens.

You know, I can't argue with that logic LOL...

[conversationpc]

The absence of everything is still something - it is the absence of everything.

No. Saying "it is the absence of everything" is only words we came up with to describe the ABSENCE OF EVERYTHING.