Replacing Augeri Mid-Tour IS NOT COOL

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Postby bionic » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:08 am

Les wrote:Exactly.

And even if it was true, he could have done a lot worse. Some guys belt their partners or make everyone around them miserable by constantly bullying them.

Call me an eejit if you want but I still don't believe it happened... at least not to the extent Deano etc make out it did. I go by what I saw and heard for myself, not what I see on here.


Hello Les belive me it happened! My friend told me a week before Jeff took over that he was in and he was correct. He also told me some time before i had evan heard of Deano of the tapes used,he also spoke to one of the promoters of Sweden Rock who said 'If we had known they were going to use tapes we would not have booked them'!!! My friend is a Journey fan and has no reason to lie to me,i dont want ot belive it either.Did you also know that Jon's vocals are on tape for Anytime/Feeling that Way so they sync up for him and Steve live?
I accept you may not want to belive and thats cool,if this was all rubbish why did Andrew contact the band for a statement?
So at this point the band must have been aware that people were asking questions,then they went live and Augeri crashed :cry:
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Postby nolippin » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:10 am

It had to have been his personal choice. That is what you are not understanding...or just don't want to accept. Contractually or legally you cannot be forced to commit fraud. When he became physically unable to perform without tapes, he was free from any contractual obligation.

To believe otherwise is just naive.


Badcotune wrote:
nolippin wrote: but it was his choice to stay on the stage instead of walking away with some diginity.
Barb wrote:
Yes, he did it, but we just don't know that it was his personal choice, and not a management and band mandate. He may have had a contractual stipulation to do as he's told, and this SHOULD NOT be discounted, glossed over, or candy coated by an overpaid PR spin. Much like American Idol does with the unknown commodities they tap, -- contractually they basically OWN them. Anyone who thinks otherwise just isn't informed about how these things work.
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Re: Replacing Augeri Mid-Tour IS NOT COOL

Postby jrnysc » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:12 am

Badcotune wrote:I've seen a lot of JSS cheerleaders here and elsewhere, but not a lot of people pointing out the glaring injustice being done to Augeri, so I'll lend my thoughts to what's happened.

I've been admittedly out of the loop with Journey for a while. Taking entirely too long to release a new album (Generations) and then having everyone but the drum tech sing on it was a sledgehammer to my interest level. Every year on tour with the exact same show I've already dutifully showed up for repeatedly, was another. But I was at one point their biggest fan. I had the signed Arcade game in my office, and a platinum Escape album on my wall. My obsessive compulsive knowledge of the band, and every nugget of information around the Perry split, is on par with Monker, whose been on these forums since their inception. I've disagreed with him in the past, but the man knows his facts about Journey history.

From what I gather, Augeri faces some vocal difficulties the last two years due to being the workhorse for the last 8 years. Perry would not have been able to fulfill half the dates of the first Journey reunion tour in 1998. FTLOSM proved that. Argue that all you want. Journey made an informed decision to select Augeri, and they sold us on him. He was never a phenomenal vocalist, but he was a very good singer for the gruel and burn that was required of him -- and night after night, year after year, his passion, commitment, humility, grace and charm gave an otherwise defunct Journey a vocal outlet to plug into, which then allowed them to become a viable touring entity again for almost another decade.

And when this man runs into problems -- do they stand behind their singer -- their informed choice -- the workhorse who until only recently, very much withstood the intensity and burn of such an intensive touring schedule? No. They replace him. Mid-tour.

On a Youtube.com JSS Journey Medley clip, Jonathan says
"Due to unknown health reasons, Steve Augeri will not be performing tonight". They know exactly why, so it isn't unknown, is it? They lie to their fans, and replace their lead singer mid-tour instead of choosing to stand behind the man who made touring minus Perry possible for the last 8 years. Who does that? Journey does. Neal Schon and Journey have become the new Van Halen, adrift and without vocal indentity. Instead of cancelling shows if their singer is ill, they make him sing to pre-recorded tracks, and then put him out to pasture when they get busted for it. Neal and Jon have shown thier true colors, and that's why I'm done with them. I just can't pump my fist to a third generation singer on "Don't Stop Believin'". Sorry.

Mr. Augeri, if you read this, not all of us wear the rose colored glasses and can read between the pasturized PR nonsense. You were wronged, and I'll look forward to buying your new release, not so much with an "everything but the kitchen sink" vocals on a new Journey album.

Journey has become now what I always championed that they were not -- lame. Thanks Neal and Jon! True Class! Augeri, you now have the opportunity to fullfill what post-Perry-Journey could have become, and be confident, and emboldened by that -- speak the truth, don't sign anything that says you can't, and soldier on!


I personally agree with the majority of your post. Nobody knows what contracts or agreements Augeri had with the band. I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think he was an "equal" partner in the band. He may have had to pay a lot of money to these guys if he backed out. It has already been stated that Journey would have had to pay mega bucks if they backed out of this tour. I truly don't believe Steve Augeri would con anybody unless he felt he had no choice. I have posted on this subject before. If what appears to be true is the truth, it truly sickens me. You have a horse you ride for 8 years, he sprains his ankle, and you shoot him. That is pretty much how it appears to me. I hope that one day Steve can pick up his pride, and come out and tell his side of the story. I also believe at this point that the reason he has said nothing is because he has a gag order against him.
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Re: Replacing Augeri Mid-Tour IS NOT COOL

Postby fred_journeyman » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:12 am

Badcotune wrote:Mr. Augeri, if you read this, not all of us wear the rose colored glasses and can read between the pasturized PR nonsense. You were wronged, and I'll look forward to buying your new release, not so much with an "everything but the kitchen sink" vocals on a new Journey album.


I'm looking forward to the new Tall Stories release as well...if that's what you're referring to.

Journey has become now what I always championed that they were not -- lame. Thanks Neal and Jon! True Class! Augeri, you now have the opportunity to fullfill what post-Perry-Journey could have become, and be confident, and emboldened by that -- speak the truth, don't sign anything that says you can't, and soldier on!


Like I said, Journey is becoming passe. A rockumentary in the line of Spinal Tap could EASILY be created about Journey. Think about it...instead of the drummer dying or exploding all the time, we would have a revolving door of lead singers moving across the stage. They sing for a while, then end up sounding like croaking frogs. Then, they move off the stage and another one takes his place. Steve Perry would be sitting in the audience and as each new vocalist lost his voice, he would simply check them off and yell "NEXT!"
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Postby Matthew » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:14 am

Badcotune wrote:
nolippin wrote: but it was his choice to stay on the stage instead of walking away with some diginity.
Barb wrote:
Yes, he did it, but we just don't know that it was his personal choice, and not a management and band mandate. He may have had a contractual stipulation to do as he's told, and this SHOULD NOT be discounted, glossed over, or candy coated by an overpaid PR spin. Much like American Idol does with the unknown commodities they tap, -- contractually they basically OWN them. Anyone who thinks otherwise just isn't informed about how these things work.


I'm sure Augeri would have had a good case had he decided to quit. I doubt a 'do what your told' contract would include a stipulation that he defraud the public. With a good lawyer and a doctor's note Augeri could have quit the band in July 2005 with no problem at all.
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Postby Lula » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:15 am

Replacing Augeri mid tour was the only option if the band wanted to stay on the road. Had they continued under the cloud of accusations their reputations would have been damaged beyond repair, imo. No one knows who/where the absurd idea of using tapes came from.... well some do, but certainly not the majority on the boards. The whole act is disgusting and really pissed me off. I'm happy to see my favorite band doing it right with a singer that can do the job the way it should be done- live. No offense to Steve Augeri is meant in any way. I'm thankful Jeff was available to keep the tour going, and quite honestly the energy I've seen from the guys on stage and their demeanor off stage is refreshing.... not the same old same same old. Jeff breaths new life into the classics and does so very well. Call me a cheerleader I don't care, at least I'm cheering for continued success for Journey and not their demise. Remember- this is a business, bottom line, not auditions for humanitarian of the year.
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Postby Carlitto H@kk » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:15 am

All the Tape-Gate and who's in/who's out speculations aside, has anyone ever considered that...

Maybe Augeri was ready to step-down, for whatever reason he might have, and this turned out to be the perfect opportunity???

It is kunda strange that, with all the threads dedicated to him and constantly updated over at BT, Augeri nor his wife has replied at all. Maybe that's because, not only is he really healing up his voice but, he's contemplating his next venture and just waiting for the right time to come public with it??? Maybe he thinks his time with Journey has given him enuff leverage to get Tall Stories revved up again. Hell, there just might really be a TS's tour planned for next year.
It's just with all the silence and generic "Official Statements", it is possible Steve decided to leave the band on his own and, to save face AND ticket sells, he and the band are going to let this linger on until this current jaunt is finally over.


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Postby nolippin » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:16 am

Exactly, and it seems that Journey has a renewed energy which is a good thing, IMO.



Wally_Hatchet wrote:It's not about anyone being a JSS cheerleader or not...

It's about being a Journey fan.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:21 am

Carlitto H@kk wrote:
Maybe Augeri was ready to step-down, for whatever reason he might have, and this turned out to be the perfect opportunity???


Plausible.

You weren't around but I remember that little shit TNC saying Augie was looking for "Exit" signs after Andrew's Augeri Generations interview came out.

Circumstances and vocal health may have hastened the process.
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Postby fred_journeyman » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:22 am

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Maybe Augeri was ready to step-down, for whatever reason he might have, and this turned out to be the perfect opportunity???


I wouldn't be surprised, frankly. On the new Tall Stories' song from the soon-to-be-release MR#3, he sounded good. Not sure when that was recorded though.

For Augeri, maybe he was feeling claustrophobic about being in Journey any longer.

It is kunda strange that, with all the threads dedicated to him and constantly updated over at BT, Augeri nor his wife has replied at all.


I'm inclined to believe that the ever-present GAG order has come into play. You know, "We'll continue to pay you until _____, with so much $$$ and you shut up" kind of thing. It takes a lot of money to go to court over issues like health and contractual obligations, which is why most people settle OUT OF COURT. For Augeri, maybe it's just a whole lot easier to sit by in silence and plan his future...on paid, administrative leave.
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Postby A Fire Inside » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:24 am

The Confessor wrote:And what should Journey have done? Cancel the tour and disappoint tens of thousands of fans? Continue on with Augeri singing (or not singing...as it were)? If YOU were faced with losing the best job you've had in a long time (touring with Lep)...what would YOU do? Just say "fuck it" and lose all that money? I doubt it. They did the best they could to go on. If you don't like it, then don't go see them play and don't buy the new CD. Simple as that.

Well, IMO they should have replaced him temporarily since they had to do the tour BUT include a statement from the man himself and/or perhaps continued tidbits of update.

Instead, it looks like they simply tossed him on the sidewalk and drove on.

That's why I can't respect any of them.
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Postby Carlitto H@kk » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:40 am

A Fire Inside wrote:
The Confessor wrote:And what should Journey have done? Cancel the tour and disappoint tens of thousands of fans? Continue on with Augeri singing (or not singing...as it were)? If YOU were faced with losing the best job you've had in a long time (touring with Lep)...what would YOU do? Just say "fuck it" and lose all that money? I doubt it. They did the best they could to go on. If you don't like it, then don't go see them play and don't buy the new CD. Simple as that.

Well, IMO they should have replaced him temporarily since they had to do the tour BUT include a statement from the man himself and/or perhaps continued tidbits of update.

Instead, it looks like they simply tossed him on the sidewalk and drove on.

That's why I can't respect any of them.


Fire, see my post above? Do you think it's plausible that Augeri wanted out and this has all been planned by him and the band; a mutual seperation? Granted it seems shitty the way it went down, but do think it's possible?
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Postby Red13JoePa » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:42 am

There WAS an update from the band. Andrew ran it front page with the fall tour leg news. Wether anyone accepts it is a different matter. It said he's being monitored closely by doctor(s) for when he will be able to rejoin the tour.
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Postby fred_journeyman » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:42 am

A Fire Inside wrote:Instead, it looks like they simply tossed him on the sidewalk and drove on.


Man, what a way to describe it! Right on! 8)
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Postby fred_journeyman » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:43 am

Red13JoePa wrote:There WAS an update from the band. Andrew ran it front page with the fall tour leg news. Wether anyone accepts it is a different matter. It said he's being monitored closely by doctor(s) for when he will be able to rejoin the tour.


Yeah, but wouldn't it have been nice to hear SOMETHING from Augeri himself? I realize the band put that update there, but to "see/hear" something from Augeri would be great. Ten to one he NEVER talks about this.
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Postby Lula » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:44 am

Wally_Hatchet wrote:It's not about anyone being a JSS cheerleader or not...

It's about being a Journey fan.


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Postby Matthew » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:51 am

fred_journeyman wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:There WAS an update from the band. Andrew ran it front page with the fall tour leg news. Wether anyone accepts it is a different matter. It said he's being monitored closely by doctor(s) for when he will be able to rejoin the tour.


Yeah, but wouldn't it have been nice to hear SOMETHING from Augeri himself? I realize the band put that update there, but to "see/hear" something from Augeri would be great. Ten to one he NEVER talks about this.


And gets paid a load to cash in return. Or maybe he's such a yes-man Journey will get his silence for free?
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Postby Citygirl » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:52 am

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Fire, see my post above? Do you think it's plausible that Augeri wanted out and this has all been planned by him and the band; a mutual seperation? Granted it seems shitty the way it went down, but do think it's possible?


I don't think he would do that to himself... his career is finished cos of the whole tapegate thing whatever the real story is.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:53 am

fred_journeyman wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:There WAS an update from the band. Andrew ran it front page with the fall tour leg news. Wether anyone accepts it is a different matter. It said he's being monitored closely by doctor(s) for when he will be able to rejoin the tour.


Yeah, but wouldn't it have been nice to hear SOMETHING from Augeri himself?


I could take or leave it. I don't HAVE to hear something from him at this time. I miss the guy in the band, loved his work in the band but feel entitled to nothing more than I've been told. Sue me if take the infection news at face value. I predict he will adress the fans if/when he's officially replaced by JSS but for those torch and pitchfork wielders: please hold your breath, because it's not going to mention/dignify tapegate at all.
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Postby Citygirl » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:59 am

bionic wrote:Hello Les belive me it happened! My friend told me a week before Jeff took over that he was in and he was correct. He also told me some time before i had evan heard of Deano of the tapes used,he also spoke to one of the promoters of Sweden Rock who said 'If we had known they were going to use tapes we would not have booked them'!!! My friend is a Journey fan and has no reason to lie to me,i dont want ot belive it either.Did you also know that Jon's vocals are on tape for Anytime/Feeling that Way so they sync up for him and Steve live?
I accept you may not want to belive and thats cool,if this was all rubbish why did Andrew contact the band for a statement?
So at this point the band must have been aware that people were asking questions,then they went live and Augeri crashed :cry:


My point was that even if it is right enough, he could have done a lot worse. I'm not saying it was right if it did happen, but like I said... we'll probably never know the full story.

I bet there's a lot more to it than anyone other than the guys will ever know.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:05 am

Red13JoePa wrote:This thing was embellished so far beyond comprehension it is a travesty.


And you're a travesty to rational clear-thinking human beings everywhere.
You even wrote a glowing review of a bootleg concert dvd wherein Augeri sings only ONE song entiriely without tapes.
You praise this band's live performances of "Place in Your Heart" when each time it has been using an isolated vocal straight off "Generations".

You couldn't tell if Augeri was miming even if he stopped the show to hit "rewind" on an on-stage tapedeck.
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Re: Replacing Augeri Mid-Tour IS NOT COOL

Postby McNeil » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:05 am

A Fire Inside wrote:
Badcotune wrote:And when this man runs into problems -- do they stand behind their singer -- their informed choice -- the workhorse who until only recently, very much withstood the intensity and burn of such an intensive touring schedule? No. They replace him. Mid-tour.

They lie to their fans, and replace their lead singer mid-tour instead of choosing to stand behind the man who made touring minus Perry possible for the last 8 years. Who does that? Journey does. Neal Schon and Journey have become the new Van Halen, adrift and without vocal indentity. Instead of cancelling shows if their singer is ill, they make him sing to pre-recorded tracks, and then put him out to pasture when they get busted for it. Neal and Jon have shown thier true colors, and that's why I'm done with them. I just can't pump my fist to a third generation singer on "Don't Stop Believin'". Sorry.

Mr. Augeri, if you read this, not all of us wear the rose colored glasses and can read between the pasturized PR nonsense. You were wronged, and I'll look forward to buying your new release, not so much with an "everything but the kitchen sink" vocals on a new Journey album.

I agree with this post. 8) Although I think Augeri is just as guilty as the rest of them, the way the rest of the band got off scot-free makes me feel for him.

I have been arguing all this for a while, good luck getting it through to your audience here.


hey Fire... there are more than just a handful that agree with the intelligent comments in the post, they just choose to be quiet about it, lest they get "nut-busted" by the "tapegate" crew

I alsi think Augeri made a mistake agreeing to it, so its not all just black n white..but generally the comments in the post are well balanced, and sensible.. no ravings here!!

In fact, badcotunes words could have just as well come from a "repentant " Steve A !! ..your not Steve are you Badco??
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Postby fred_journeyman » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:10 am

MATTHEW wrote:And gets paid a load to cash in return. Or maybe he's such a yes-man Journey will get his silence for free?


Oh c'mon, Matt. Would YOU do it for free? No, and neither would I. I'm sure his silence is worth quite a bit. If he's gonna be played the way he's being played, then he might as well get something for his "silent" efforts.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:10 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:This thing was embellished so far beyond comprehension it is a travesty.


And you're a travesty to rational clear-thinking human beings everywhere.
You even wrote a glowing review of a bootleg concert dvd wherein Augeri sings only ONE song entiriely without tapes.
You praise this band's live performances of "Place in Your Heart" when each time it has been using an isolated vocal straight off "Generations".

You couldn't tell if Augeri was miming even if he stopped the show to hit "rewind" on an on-stage tapedeck.


"We leading separate lives" and "If I could take you there" sound like probably tapes. Period. Whooptie damn doo.
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Re: Replacing Augeri Mid-Tour IS NOT COOL

Postby Citygirl » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:11 am

McNeil wrote:In fact, badcotunes words could have just as well come from a "repentant " Steve A !! ..your not Steve are you Badco??


That's what I was thinking Neil.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:14 am

nolippin wrote:It had to have been his personal choice. That is what you are not understanding...or just don't want to accept. Contractually or legally you cannot be forced to commit fraud. When he became physically unable to perform without tapes, he was free from any contractual obligation.

To believe otherwise is just naive.



If he was being forced against his will in any way he should've spoken out directly to the fanbase.
Believe it or not, there would've been an uproar.
Instead, he remained silent and chose loyalty to the band, over loyalty to the people that paid his salary and believed in him.
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Postby fred_journeyman » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:15 am

Red13JoePa wrote:I could take or leave it. I don't HAVE to hear something from him at this time. I miss the guy in the band, loved his work in the band but feel entitled to nothing more than I've been told. Sue me if take the infection news at face value. I predict he will adress the fans if/when he's officially replaced by JSS but for those torch and pitchfork wielders: please hold your breath, because it's not going to mention/dignify tapegate at all.


What I meant was that it would be nice to hear things directly FROM THE SOURCE, that's all. It doesn't matter to me, because I think there's a ton of stuff going on behind the scenes. Ultimately, this is business for the band, at the corporate level and this is what corporations do.

Don't get me wrong, Red. I'm not a pitchfork weilder and I hold no animousity toward the guys in the band. I'm talking, that's all I'm doing. I've got more important things to deal with in life than whether or not Augeri lip-sync'd or whatever the case may be surrounding Journey or Perry. For me, it's fun to discuss the possible angles and that's it. There are people on here who live or die by all of it. They can have it because they apprently have nothing else in their lives. This is just fodder for discussion, as far as I'm concerned.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:16 am

Red13JoePa wrote:"We leading separate lives" and "If I could take you there" sound like probably tapes. Period. Whooptie damn doo.
Start a blog.


LMAO.
Those aren't even vocally demanding portions of the song.
Why on earth would they replace a lead vocalist's voice for just one or two easily sung lines.
That doesn't even make any sense.
What a braindead apologist.
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Postby Eric » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:17 am

Badcotune:

You sure as fuck have been out of the loop!

Get caught up to speed and then if you have the same opinion I'll say....okay, I see your point.
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Postby Matthew » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:18 am

fred_journeyman wrote:
MATTHEW wrote:And gets paid a load to cash in return. Or maybe he's such a yes-man Journey will get his silence for free?


Oh c'mon, Matt. Would YOU do it for free? No, and neither would I. I'm sure his silence is worth quite a bit. If he's gonna be played the way he's being played, then he might as well get something for his "silent" efforts.


No, of course not Fred. And I'm sure Augeri isn't either. Which is why it so hard to understand all this hand-wringing about Augeri being "thrown out of a car"....or the portrayal of him as some kind of "lamb".
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