Let's do the same rating thing with TBF.....

[JeremyP]

Umm, good ears, Jeremy....or shall I say, good sound system..

I caught this too, but, and I may be wrong, isn't that an indication that Perry's vocals were recorded AFTER the track was done..?

Again, I maybe wrong...maybe Nora or Jeremey could shed some light on this...?

Or someone else....


Ray

Thanks Ray.

I could be totally wrong about the hiss thing being an indication of a live take. That's just my amateur and unqualified opinion. I have no clue what's causing the hiss. It might be leakage of the other instruments and Kevin Shirley muted Steve's mic when he wasn't singing or more probably just chopped out those sections in post?

Any light that anybody could shed on this would be really interesting.

Here's Kevin quote regarding "Trial By Fire". http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_kevin_shirley/

I tell you what, that band is fantastic. I'd be sitting in that room in San Francisco, and Journey would play this album for me every day for six weeks. It was a lot of work, but it was such a treat at the same time. They were magnificent musicians. The cool thing was when we got into the studio, they just played the songs. There was a lot less for me to do at that point than just wait for magic to happen. The song that was the biggest hit on there was all one take, including the guitar solo. You'll hear the guitar starts when the solo kicks in — that's Neal [Schon]. He stops playing rhythm, plays his solo, then goes back to playing rhythm. That's the band playing. We later overdubbed an orchestra on it

[/url]

[ArnelRox]

Ok, I'm hearing this album for the first time. There are a lot of different styles but overall the band is pretty adult contemporary & a bit ballad heavy. They are versatile though. Whoever their lead singer is has the most amazing voice I've ever heard. I'd grab the insert to see what he looked like cos the voice turns me on so much & I'd be hoping he was a goodlooking fella so I could pin pictures of him up on my walls The guitarist is phenomenal & the keyboard player & drummer are exceptional musicians. But the lead singer steals the show every time. My God, who is this guy? He's going places w/that sexy raspy voice & the way he hits notes. Can I please hear some more of this guy? I could listen to him for the rest of my life.

MOL - 10 (awesome opening, catchy song, amazing all round)
OM - 4 (mediocre song, nice vocals)
WYLAW - 10 (beautiful timeless classic ballad)
IHSBYH - 6 (catchy little number)
FIB - 5 (love the sexy voice, but not fantastic song)
CB - 2 (only because his voice is so interesting, otherwise the song sucks)
DBDOMB - 5 (again b/c of the voice, the song is just ok)
SSC - 10 (so haunting & that sexy rasp in the voice blows my mind here, all the band are awesome here)
COTS - 5 (different from the rest of the album w/cool effects, but not the best song)
WITOY - 9 (beautiful song w/haunting vocals)
ETF - 8 (vocals are beautiful, song is nice)
CTTL - 5 (neat chorus but overall, not a great song)
IJTR - 8 (a bit slow, but beautiful nonetheless)
TBF - 4 (not a great song, but again, the voice saves it, interesting guitar)
BILY - 9.5 (totally unlike the rest of the album, it's a fun song & a cool change)

Overall: 6.7

[cyndy!]

TBF grew on me. i liked it when i first heard it, but now i love it.

Message of Love = 9
One More = 6
When You Love a Woman = 9
If He Should Break Your Heart = 8
Forever in Blue = 6
Castles Burning = 6.5
Don't Be Down on Me Baby = 8
Still She Cries = 10
Colors of the Spirit = 6.5
When I Think of You = 8
Easy to Fall = 10
Can't Tame the Lion = 6
It's Just the Rain = 10
Trial By Fire = 10
Baby I'm a Leavin' You = 7
I Can See it in Your Eyes = 6

[ddregs]

For an average rating of 7-7.5 here is my evaluation (but it's so bad to assign a value rating to a song, I don't like it)

Message of Love = 9
One More = 7
When You Love a Woman = 9
If He Should Break Your Heart = 7.5
Forever in Blue = 7
Castles Burning = 6.5
Don't Be Down on Me Baby = 6.5
Still She Cries = 6.5
Colors of the Spirit = 6.5
When I Think of You = 6
Easy to Fall = 10
Can't Tame the Lion = 9
It's Just the Rain = 6.5
Trial By Fire = 6.5
Baby I'm a Leavin' You = 5
I Can See it in Your Eyes = 9.5

[r@y]

Umm, good ears, Jeremy....or shall I say, good sound system..

I caught this too, but, and I may be wrong, isn't that an indication that Perry's vocals were recorded AFTER the track was done..?

Again, I maybe wrong...maybe Nora or Jeremey could shed some light on this...?

Or someone else....


Ray

Thanks Ray.

I could be totally wrong about the hiss thing being an indication of a live take. That's just my amateur and unqualified opinion. I have no clue what's causing the hiss. It might be leakage of the other instruments and Kevin Shirley muted Steve's mic when he wasn't singing or more probably just chopped out those sections in post?

Any light that anybody could shed on this would be really interesting.

Here's Kevin quote regarding "Trial By Fire". http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_kevin_shirley/

I tell you what, that band is fantastic. I'd be sitting in that room in San Francisco, and Journey would play this album for me every day for six weeks. It was a lot of work, but it was such a treat at the same time. They were magnificent musicians. The cool thing was when we got into the studio, they just played the songs. There was a lot less for me to do at that point than just wait for magic to happen. The song that was the biggest hit on there was all one take, including the guitar solo. You'll hear the guitar starts when the solo kicks in — that's Neal [Schon]. He stops playing rhythm, plays his solo, then goes back to playing rhythm. That's the band playing. We later overdubbed an orchestra on it

[/url]

Heya Jeremy...

Interesting....

Well, let' wait and see if we get an expert opinion on this...

I am certain we will...


Ray

[Distant Voice]

I think it's really cool that "When You Love A Woman" was recorded live in the studio. (Not completely live of course, they did vocal harmonies and orchestral overdubs later)

Something I don't think I noticed until Kevin Shirley pointed it out on his website was how you can hear Neal play rhythm guitar up until the solo when he switches to lead. Just one of those little cool things that make you go, "Wow, it was live."

Also if you listen carefully you can hear a slight hiss under Steve's vocal that disappears when he's not singing. I think that's another little indication that it's live because if they had recorded his lead vocal after everything else, they probably would have taken the time to get it pristine and without any hiss on the vocals at all. And you know it's not tape hiss because this was well into the digital era.

That might be the only "live" Journey performance during the "Trial By Fire" era.

I submitted a question about it to the Steve Perry Q&A. I'm hoping he'll say something like, "Yeah, the whole album was pretty much done live." That way it's kinda like a Journey live performance and Journey studio album all in one and a great finale to the Perry era.

Anyway, I just think it's really cool.

Jeremy,


your thoughts are pretty close to being spot on.

[L~L~L]

JeremyP, great post very interesting.

[Jeremey]

Many fans hold up FIB as everything thats wrong with Journey post-Frontiers.
They say it's Phil Collins-esque, the type of easy listening tailor-made for matronly old hags with arrhythmia.

I probably rate the vocal more than rating the song. When I think of matronly old hags, I think of Tom Jones....That being said, the vocal is one of the finest on the record. Plus, it's always fun to sing along with the opening line, "When she walked into the room, I felt her booby."

[Jeremey]

I think it's really cool that "When You Love A Woman" was recorded live in the studio. (Not completely live of course, they did vocal harmonies and orchestral overdubs later)

Something I don't think I noticed until Kevin Shirley pointed it out on his website was how you can hear Neal play rhythm guitar up until the solo when he switches to lead. Just one of those little cool things that make you go, "Wow, it was live."

Also if you listen carefully you can hear a slight hiss under Steve's vocal that disappears when he's not singing. I think that's another little indication that it's live because if they had recorded his lead vocal after everything else, they probably would have taken the time to get it pristine and without any hiss on the vocals at all. And you know it's not tape hiss because this was well into the digital era.

That might be the only "live" Journey performance during the "Trial By Fire" era.

I submitted a question about it to the Steve Perry Q&A. I'm hoping he'll say something like, "Yeah, the whole album was pretty much done live." That way it's kinda like a Journey live performance and Journey studio album all in one and a great finale to the Perry era.

Anyway, I just think it's really cool.

I'm pretty sure Steve would be in an isolation booth for the vocal, so no bleed whatsoever from other instruments; however, you're probably hearing the compression on the vocal track clamping down whenever Steve isn't singing. I don't know, I wasn't there - But I'd be surprised to find that there was a studio vocal track - Especially one as pristinely sung as WYLAW - That Steve didn't do multiple takes on, just based on his reputation for perfectionism.

Also, a side note - I've always taken what Kevin Shirley has said about things with a grain of salt. At one point he mentioned he was using a ZOOM vocal processor for Perry's reverb on TBF...A ZOOM processor is like a $99 bargain unit that kids use in their bedrooms, so I've always wondered if he wasn't just trying to get one over on people sometimes.

[r@y]

I think it's really cool that "When You Love A Woman" was recorded live in the studio. (Not completely live of course, they did vocal harmonies and orchestral overdubs later)

Something I don't think I noticed until Kevin Shirley pointed it out on his website was how you can hear Neal play rhythm guitar up until the solo when he switches to lead. Just one of those little cool things that make you go, "Wow, it was live."

Also if you listen carefully you can hear a slight hiss under Steve's vocal that disappears when he's not singing. I think that's another little indication that it's live because if they had recorded his lead vocal after everything else, they probably would have taken the time to get it pristine and without any hiss on the vocals at all. And you know it's not tape hiss because this was well into the digital era.

That might be the only "live" Journey performance during the "Trial By Fire" era.

I submitted a question about it to the Steve Perry Q&A. I'm hoping he'll say something like, "Yeah, the whole album was pretty much done live." That way it's kinda like a Journey live performance and Journey studio album all in one and a great finale to the Perry era.

Anyway, I just think it's really cool.

Jeremy,


your thoughts are pretty close to being spot on.

Well, Jeremy...that pretty much settles it...!



Ray

[Red13JoePa]

Message of Love 10

You can flush the rest of it.

Except for the bonus track, I Can See it in Your Eyes. That's about a 9 or 10. Then the rest is disposable.

ARgh!!!
OverRATED!


That song's behind MOL, 1 More, Castles Burning and maybe even Can't Tame The Lion.

[NealIsGod]

Message of Love 10

You can flush the rest of it.

Except for the bonus track, I Can See it in Your Eyes. That's about a 9 or 10. Then the rest is disposable.

ARgh!!!
OverRATED!


That song's behind MOL, 1 More, Castles Burning and maybe even Can't Tame The Lion.

You're a poopyhead.

[somethingtohide]

My overall rating comes out to about a 7. Not bad.

Message Of Love = 9 I like it. Has the "Journey sound".
One More = 6
When You Love A Woman = 8 Nice ballad, but still a little too sweet for me.
If He Should Break Your Heart = 7
Forever In Blue = 6
Castles Burning = 7
Don't Be Down On Me Baby = 9
Still She Cries = 6
Colors Of The Spirit = 5
When I Think Of You = 6
Easy To Fall = 8
Can't Tame The Lion = 7 Great guitar
It's Just The Rain = 9 Love the vocals on this one.
Trial By Fire = 7
Baby I'm Leavin' You = 6 unexpected, but fun song

I Can See It In Your Eyes = I've never heard it. What kind of fan am I?

[Red13JoePa]

I do like it a lot, nevertheless.

I've felt let down though after what I thought was a really promising beginning, "oooooohhh baby baby...."

then the classic Schon/Cain outro rescues it.

[frostbite]

MOL - 6
OM - 7
WYLAW - 10
FIB - 7
CB - 5
DBDOMB - 8
SSC - 7
COTS - 7
WITOY - 9
ETF - 9
CTTL - 9
IJTR - 7
TBF - 10
BILY - 1

I still think this is a strong Journey record, though that hidden track should've remained hidden. Cod Reggae/Calypso/Whatever...it made me vomit.

[bluejeangirl76]

Message of Love 10

You can flush the rest of it.

Pretty much sums up my review, too. I LOVE Message Of Love. Although I'm adding "When I Think Of You". I would rescue that one from the crapper before I flushed.

Just an observation but, I notice there seem to be 2 camps of "worst Perry era Journey record" and those two camps are the ones that hate Radio and the ones that hate Trial.

If we're talking worst Journey album inclusive of all incarnations of Journey, I wonder what that would look like? Hmmm...time to start a thread I think....

[Liquid_Drummer]

Love most of the album. Here is my rankings per song

Message of Love = 9
One More = 8
When You Love a Woman = 7
If He Should Break Your Heart = 9
Forever in Blue = 5
Castles Burning = 5
Don't Be Down on Me Baby = 10
Still She Cries = 4
Colors of the Spirit = 9
When I Think of You = 5
Easy to Fall = 9
Can't Tame the Lion = 3
It's Just the Rain = 4
Trial By Fire = 5
Baby I'm a Leavin' You = 7
I Can See it in Your Eyes = 3

[conversationpc]

If we're talking worst Journey album inclusive of all incarnations of Journey, I wonder what that would look like? Hmmm...time to start a thread I think....

I already started one here... http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=21240

[ArnelRox]

Well, Jeremy...that pretty much settles it...!

Ray

Why? I suggest asking Lora. She seems to be the ONLY one w/actual truthful information about anything Perry. Know what I'm getting at Ray?

[JeremyP]

I'm pretty sure Steve would be in an isolation booth for the vocal, so no bleed whatsoever from other instruments; however, you're probably hearing the compression on the vocal track clamping down whenever Steve isn't singing. I don't know, I wasn't there - But I'd be surprised to find that there was a studio vocal track - Especially one as pristinely sung as WYLAW - That Steve didn't do multiple takes on, just based on his reputation for perfectionism.

Also, a side note - I've always taken what Kevin Shirley has said about things with a grain of salt. At one point he mentioned he was using a ZOOM vocal processor for Perry's reverb on TBF...A ZOOM processor is like a $99 bargain unit that kids use in their bedrooms, so I've always wondered if he wasn't just trying to get one over on people sometimes.

ZOOM? Hmmmm. I've got one of those little ZOOM boxes you're talking about and it's just blegh. Even their higher end guitar modeling software has a bit of the little ZOOM505 in the sound.

Speaking of guitar tones, does anybody else feel that's Neal's guitar tone has been kinda digital and cardboard sounding lately? I notice it a lot on "Red13" and "Generations" as well as the JSS song "Believe In Me". I think he's using some kind of guitar modeling pedal....thoughts anyone?

(I can't say much, I use a POD for recording, but i think it sounds less digital and "fake" than the others out there when you tweak it right.)

[JeremyP]

Sorry, btw, I don't mean to hijack the thread. Feel free to ignore me and I'll start a "Neal's guitar tone" thread later.

[jrnyman28]

I liked TBF MUCH more at the time BECAUSE it was the return of Journey. The more I listened to it the less I liked it. If you take away Journey's history then I do not think I would have bought it.

Hey Dave,

Nice to see you back. You've been a way for a bit.

I am here almost everyday during lunch...just haven;t had much to say!

[Big J]

Total mixed bag

MOL - 10
OM - 8
WYLAW - 9
IHSBYH - 6
FIB - 4
CB - 4
DBDOMB - 7
SSC - 9
COTS - 4
WITOY - 9
ETF - 8
CTTL - 5
IJTR - 8
TBF - 5
BILY - 2
ICSIIYE - 8

Overall - 6.625. Too much crap. I like the light stuff on the album, but the "rock" stuff other that MOL and OM pretty much blows.