From Jonathan Cain

[Red13JoePa]

The Baby's weren't doing too badly.
How'd The Alien Project work out?

[Saint John]

The Baby's weren't doing too badly.
How'd The Alien Project work out?

Not sure, but I'm quite that Street Talk has done better than any Cain album.

[Red13JoePa]

Yep.

AFTER he joined Journey and becoming a part of a star band and AFTER Cain joined Journey and they became a MEGA star band.

[Saint John]

Yep.

AFTER he joined Journey and becoming a part of a star band and AFTER Cain joined Journey and they became a MEGA star band.

Hate to break it to ya, but they were gonna turn the corner and become a "mega" band with or without Cain. We can go back and forth all day, but one thing IS for sure....Journey had no real commercial success before OR after Perry. He's the common denominator....PERIOD.

[Red13JoePa]

Yep.

AFTER he joined Journey and becoming a part of a star band and AFTER Cain joined Journey and they became a MEGA star band.

Hate to break it to ya, but they were gonna turn the corner and become a "mega" band with or without Cain. We can go back and forth all day, but one thing IS for sure....Journey had no real commercial success before OR after Perry. He's the common denominator....PERIOD.

Somewhat agree. Dunno if they'd ever achieve the "mega" status if the Departure lineup stayed intact.
With the advent of Cain the sound changed drastically and the immediate commercial results spoke for themselves.
Rolie was done be it b/c of Perry's Hitlerness or the canned "miss the family" official reason and the band has said both at the time and in hindsight that after Departure they were looking to change the sound. I think they would've TRIED to do it with Rolie but I don't think it would've turned out the way it did.

I'd quibble that they attained MILD sales success post perry. The 300 k that Arrival shifted could probably have been well over Gold status if released at the time Trial By Fire (an admitted platinum seller) was.

[Saint John]

Yep.

AFTER he joined Journey and becoming a part of a star band and AFTER Cain joined Journey and they became a MEGA star band.

Hate to break it to ya, but they were gonna turn the corner and become a "mega" band with or without Cain. We can go back and forth all day, but one thing IS for sure....Journey had no real commercial success before OR after Perry. He's the common denominator....PERIOD.

Somewhat agree. Dunno if they'd ever achieve the "mega" status if the Departure lineup stayed intact.
With the advent of Cain the sound changed drastically and the immediate commercial results spoke for themselves.
Rolie was done be it b/c of Perry's Hitlerness or the canned "miss the family" official reason and the band has said both at the time and in hindsight that after Departure they were looking to change the sound. I think they would've TRIED to do it with Rolie but I don't think it would've turned out the way it did.

I'd quibble that they attained MILD sales success post perry. The 300 k that Arrival shifted could probably have been well over Gold status if released at the time Trial By Fire (an admitted platinum seller) was.

Fair assessment. However, TBF shipped platinum but doesn't officially have platinum status because its "copies sold" never went platinum. So it's somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000. As for Arrival, I liked it. "Perry's Hitlerness" took them from playing in high school gyms and bars/clubs to playing arenas and stadiums. Like Hitler, no one can argue that Perry wasn't a genius.

[yogi]

Change the sound????????????????????????????????????????? My ass.


The Journey sound is Steve Perry..................................... Period................................


Maybe Jonathan could write better songs butt.....................


What is the sound difference between Paitiently & Faithfully?????


There is NO sound difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lula]

[quote="Carlitto H@kk"]
So why didn't he think to do this with Jeff and Journey???

Hmmm...
probably has something to do with some of the strangle-holds
Perry still has on the band on what they can and cannot re-record.
What a shame...
quote]

Perry has no control over Faithfully. Jon penned it. Perry wanted it for his solo, but smart Jon kept it and brought it out when a ballad was requested/needed for Frontiers.

[Lula]

Insulting?




He remade a song he wrote.

Then he should've rewrote it!!! He didn't SING it....up until now. And THAT'S something I think we could have all done without.

Jon recorded Faithfully for an earlier solo record (not as a duet).

[Red13JoePa]

Change the sound????????????????????????????????????????? My ass.


The Journey sound is Steve Perry..................................... Period................................

To you.

[Lora]

I don't care for this version. It is a fantastic song and Jon has the right to re-record it since it was his baby, but I don't like it as a duet or at this tempo.

[Saint John]

So why didn't he think to do this with Jeff and Journey???

Hmmm...
probably has something to do with some of the strangle-holds
Perry still has on the band on what they can and cannot re-record.
What a shame...
quote]

Perry has no control over Faithfully. Jon penned it. Perry wanted it for his solo, but smart Jon kept it and brought it out when a ballad was requested/needed for Frontiers.

True...but while Jon can re-record it, I'd bet "Journey" can't.

[Lula]

So why didn't he think to do this with Jeff and Journey???

Hmmm...
probably has something to do with some of the strangle-holds
Perry still has on the band on what they can and cannot re-record.
What a shame...
quote]

Perry has no control over Faithfully. Jon penned it. Perry wanted it for his solo, but smart Jon kept it and brought it out when a ballad was requested/needed for Frontiers.

True...but while Jon can re-record it, I'd bet "Journey" can't.

Hmmm, I don't think that is the case. Jon owns the song, and who really knows what kind of deal is in place between Perry and Journey.

[Red13JoePa]

That's a great question, actually, raised by St John.

How's that non re-record clause apply to Journey songs sung by Perry but not at least co-written by him?

[*Laura]

Must be what I said earlier...None of the songs that were performed by Perry (regardless who wrote them) can be re-recorded and officially released under the name *Journey*.Must be the consequence of a mutual agreement between SP and the NS-JC duo.

However,I think Jon can use his compositions outside Journey and re-record them in another form,shape and sound,as long as it has nothing to do with Journey as a band or business.

IMO,this remake of Faithfully doesn't sound bad,but I guess most of the die-hard Journey fans find it hard to forget about the original version and listen with unadulterated ears.
I guess Jon tried to think outside the Journey box,so to speak.

[Red13JoePa]

Must be what I said earlier...None of the songs that were performed by Perry (regardless who wrote them) can be re-recorded and officially released under the name *Journey*.

If that's true, then Herbert was right. Schon/Cain cut business accumen class and probly went to jam with Rolie like Neal always did.
Schon/Cain should get a REAL lawyer and sue the hack who negotiated that thing for legal malpractice. Not that they'd want to rerecord anything but the fact that they would be held to this EVEN IF HE'S NOT ON THE WRITING CREDITS is unfathomable to me.
At the very least it makes live records a pain in the ass and it shouldn't.

[*Laura]

I dunno if it's legal malpractice... Perhaps they all agreed that the classic songs should stay in their original form on the original recordings,as a way of protecting/preserving the legacy.Would make sense to me.

[Red13JoePa]

I dunno...It'd be nice to hear from someone who would know like a lawyer or Jeremy if there is precedent for this an artist having this much say so over songs he did not even write.
It blows my mind if they'd need his permission to put Faithfully on a live release.

[Enigma869]

I'd quibble that they attained MILD sales success post perry. The 300 k that Arrival shifted could probably have been well over Gold status if released at the time Trial By Fire (an admitted platinum seller) was.

I think the sales of "Arrival" are more based upon the name "Journey", and not much else. I would venture to guess that less than 5% of the people who purchased "Arrival" even knew Perry was gone. That said, I've always believed "Arrival" was VERY solid and should have been promoted, FAR more than it ever was.

I don't believe Journey will ever have success, without Perry. You can call it "Perry elitism", if you wish...I say put up or shut up!!!!! The facts are what they are, and until Journey can do something...anything, that people outside of web sites like this will acknowledge and embrace, nothing will ever change!

I definitely agree that Jonathan Cain's addition to Journey was ENORMOUS, from a songwriting perspective. Having said that, I still think Journey was well on their way to mega-stardom, with or without the addition of Cain. That doesn't mean I don't think he was instrumental. It simply means that Perry was going to find someone to write with and continue the momentum they had started!

John from Boston

[Red13JoePa]

I'd quibble that they attained MILD sales success post perry. The 300 k that Arrival shifted could probably have been well over Gold status if released at the time Trial By Fire (an admitted platinum seller) was.

I think the sales of "Arrival" are more based upon the name "Journey", and not much else. I would venture to guess that less than 5% of the people who purchased "Arrival" even knew Perry was gone.

*Whew* Tough for them to get any credit from some people. But I like this. I like this one a lot.

Arrivial actually sold as much as it DID because of Perry. Or mostly because of him 95% to be accurate.

PS, I what I referred to as "Perry elitism" was specifically referring to Perry's claim to Faithfully being tantamount to the Elton John/Bernie Taupin classic writing tandem.

[*Laura]

Arrivial actually sold as much as it DID because of Perry. Or mostly because of him 95% to be accurate.

Not 95% but... Wanna know something? 3 years ago,when I was desperately looking for Journey/Perry CDs,a Journey fan from my country sent me "Arrival" saying that he bought it from abroad thinking that the singer was Perry.He said he even thought the name "Augeri" was a printing error.
But he enjoyed the album even after he realized that indeed the band had changed singers.
I enjoyed it too.Still do.

What I'm trying to say is perhaps a part of the "Arrival" sales happened exactly because people had no idea about the change and were assuming that Perry is still the singer.
I think the lack of info among the casual Journey fans was a fact in the US as it was in Europe at the time of "Arrival"'s release.

[Red13JoePa]

Kind of a stretch.

And "Pery" or "Peri" or "Perri" would be a spelling error for "Perry."

But Augeri?

[*Laura]

Oh,well...stranger things have happened in the error department.

Anyway,that's what the guy said about seeing a new name after "Steve".Guess it was just a strange reaction caused by confusion,who knows?

[NCscarab]

I like it....it sort of reinvents the song and I think it's pretty cool as a duet.

[tammy]

I don't think I want to hear it - I heard his solo version & it bothered me. I love JC - great songwriter, keyboardist, but his singing just isn't what grabs me.

[Lora]

I'm not an expert on this, but I think anyone can record someone else's song. The writer of the song cannot prevent that as long as the person who wants to record it gets the proper clearance, licensing, pays the right person, etc. Even I could record "Faithfully" if I wanted to. Of course, everyone who heard it would puke, but that's another matter.

[ohsherrie]

I'm not an expert on this, but I think anyone can record someone else's song. The writer of the song cannot prevent that as long as the person who wants to record it gets the proper clearance, licensing, pays the right person, etc. Even I could record "Faithfully" if I wanted to. Of course, everyone who heard it would puke, but that's another matter.

Thanks Lora.

[StyxCollector]

I'm not an expert on this, but I think anyone can record someone else's song. The writer of the song cannot prevent that as long as the person who wants to record it gets the proper clearance, licensing, pays the right person, etc. Even I could record "Faithfully" if I wanted to. Of course, everyone who heard it would puke, but that's another matter.

It's called a mechanical license. I've done it for a couple of my jazz projects. However, you can be turned down as well. It's rare, but it happens. Since Jon wrote the song, who is going to turn him down - himself?

Now, it's different if you're going for a video release. It's one of the reasons you don't see any DDY stuff on post-1999 Styx live videos; DDY can block them marrying video to audio. YOu have a hard time stopping just audio.

If Mr. Schon and Mr. Cain were dumb enough to sign an agreement that no one else can re-record Journey songs or release a video (and I'm sure they cut a deal to release the 2001 DVD with Augeri), they screwed up. How many hits collections do we need? No more, but I think a good way of introducing Jeff as a new singer would be as a live album or DVD. Maybe with Jeff the restrictions lift. Who knows.

Whenever there is a major divorce like a Styx or Journey, part of the aftermath is the fun of figuring out what legal agreements were signed and we'll never know about (but speculate ...).

[tammy]

I'm not an expert on this, but I think anyone can record someone else's song. The writer of the song cannot prevent that as long as the person who wants to record it gets the proper clearance, licensing, pays the right person, etc. Even I could record "Faithfully" if I wanted to. Of course, everyone who heard it would puke, but that's another matter.

lol. Lora, I felt pukey today when I heard Rod Stewart singing one of my fave songs, "Father & Son" by Cat Stevens...there SHOULD be a law against that! Nobody does it better than CS.

[Carlitto H@kk]

If Mr. Schon and Mr. Cain were dumb enough to sign an agreement that no one else can re-record Journey songs or release a video (and I'm sure they cut a deal to release the 2001 DVD with Augeri), they screwed up. How many hits collections do we need? No more, but I think a good way of introducing Jeff as a new singer would be as a live album or DVD. Maybe with Jeff the restrictions lift. Who knows.

When I first brought this up early in the thread, the agreement I was refering to was the "rumored"
contract stipulation between Perry and the band that
"No Perry-era songs could be re-recorded in the studio and
released under the name Journey.
Basically, Journey now, either with Augeri or Jeff,
couldn't go into the studio, re-record something from the Perry days
and put it on the next album. That is the "rumored" stipulation I was
refering to/asking about.
Live stuff and video stuff is a whole different ball game.
I was talking purely Studio Recordings.