Butterfly and RedJoema13

[AR]

Screw you, too ArrivalRules. I handled all your dirty work, too in the LoonsAlert thread and this is goddam thanks ?

I will defend the Arrival CD. Can't do it on Butterfly though. I am consistent.

Oh ok Dorothy Hamill. Shall I start up a poll on that piece of shit CD?

I would fuck the shit out of Dorothy Hamill. But remember, If you think I look like her - you are the dude on Scrubs.

AR
Dorothy
RockNDeano
Scrubs Dude

[7 Wishes]

"Butterfly" blows donkey balls. The only saving graces on Generations were Deen's. Otherwise it sucked. When the Fraud "sang" that live, it was time for a pee break...but not the great kind of 25-minute, do a #1 and #2, down two beers and a pretzel kind of pee break like that prick Francis Sullivan (who is, as we speak, ruining Survivor) musically whacks off to on "Summer Nights".

[Rockindeano]

Hahah...You DO look like her!

[Matthew]

Yea, yea. Whatever Mr Jameson I mean St John.

Now, I, of course picked 4. I see it as a song kinda like Lights or After The Fall or Eyes Of A Woman, that although mild is NOT a ballad.

Matt's terrific at making these kind of distinctions I'd like his opinion on the thing, too.

If he can STAND giving this Augeri-fronted Journey track another listen before weighing in....

PS: You better footnote JR for using his Joemama nickname for me. We know the bastard's looking

Red - I just gave Butterfly another listen and do you know what? I can't for the life of me understand why everyone is giving this song such a hard time. I'd say it was a ballad myself - but that's hardly a reason to dislike the song (christ, we're all fans of Journey here so all this macho crap about ballads on a board devoted to the greatest balladeers of all-time is mystifying). I guess it's maybe a bit shapeless compared to WYLAW, OA, Faithfully, etc - so I can see why you might say it is doesn't quite stick to a power ballad formula. I especially like the last minute or so - great work from Neal - and overall I'd say this is one of the better Augeri era tunes.

That "sweet Butterfly" line is a bit cringey, though...

But come on...surely the Augeri era song which needs to have a poll started about it...and be ridiculed and despised on a regular basis...is All The Way. Now THAT song is a disgrace to the Journey name.

[styxman]

I simply love that song, makes me feel all emotional and at peace with the world...........it's truly a beautiful ballad and a must for any Journey Fan

[*Laura]

surely the Augeri era song which needs to have a poll started about it...and be ridiculed and despised on a regular basis...is All The Way. Now THAT song is a disgrace to the Journey name.

Why? IMO,it sounds like Journey.A good power-ballad.

I really don't understand why some Journey ballads (or slow to mid-tempo songs,if you want) are ridiculed."All The Way" might sound to some as a sappy/cheesy/whatever song,but come on...It has that quintessential,basic formula that other Journey power ballads were built on...

Open Arms,Faithfully,WCTNGOF,etc,they all have the "cheese",but that's Journey "cheese" and we have been tasting it and loving it for years!

"Butterfly" has it too,no doubt about it.It IS a good song.Sure,none of the post-Perry slow tunes will rise to the expectations for a lot of reasons,but no one can label them as "pussified" or "suck ass" songs.

Butterfly was written by Augeri alone.Is that the real problem?
I believe he tried to follow the Journey ballad rules and to a certain extent,he succeeded.The song has enough emotion in it.

I really liked Butterfly since the first time I heard it.This coming from someone who really enjoys the hard rocking stuff more than the ballads.
But I sure love to stop from my tracks and get emotional with a sensible song.

[Matthew]

surely the Augeri era song which needs to have a poll started about it...and be ridiculed and despised on a regular basis...is All The Way. Now THAT song is a disgrace to the Journey name.

Why? IMO,it sounds like Journey.A good power-ballad.

I really don't understand why some Journey ballads (or slow to mid-tempo songs,if you want) are ridiculed."All The Way" might sound to some as a sappy/cheesy/whatever song,but come on...It has that quintessential,basic formula that other Journey power ballads were built on...

Open Arms,Faithfully,WCTNGOF,etc,they all have the "cheese",but that's Journey "cheese" and we have been tasting it and loving it for years!

"Butterfly" has it too,no doubt about it.It IS a good song.Sure,none of the post-Perry slow tunes will rise to the expectations for a lot of reasons,but no one can label them as "pussified" or "suck ass" songs.

Butterfly was written by Augeri alone.Is that the real problem?
I believe he tried to follow the Journey ballad rules and to a certain extent,he succeeded.The song has enough emotion in it.

I really liked Butterfly since the first time I heard it.This coming from someone who really enjoys the hard rocking stuff more than the ballads.
But I sure love to stop from my tracks and get emotional with a sensible song.

Shania - I think All The Way is a weak, generic melody...and overall it feels like the sort of song which the Backstreet Boys or some other balladeering boyband could have recorded. It strives for the epic, grandiose sound but it comes across as totally bloodless and phoney.

Sure it follows a similar formula to the great Journey ballads of the past. But all ballads follow a similar formula. The trick is how to pull off something special, moving or surprising within such a narrow and predictable style. Perry and Cain had the magic touch in this regard. The Arrival line up didn't.

[*Laura]

Perry and Cain had the magic touch in this regard. The Arrival line up didn't.

That could be,no! that IS the logical explanation,but still...it doesn't make the post-Perry ballads bad...They may lack the full magic chemistry,but they have enough points to make them quality songs.Not exceptional or timeless,but good nonetheless.

[Matthew]

Perry and Cain had the magic touch in this regard. The Arrival line up didn't.

That could be,no! that IS the logical explanation,but still...it doesn't make the post-Perry ballads bad...They may lack the full magic chemistry,but they have enough points to make them quality songs.Not exceptional or timeless,but good nonetheless.

Okay...maybe I was being a little harsh.

[Matthew]

[
Let me guess.....you shove your underwear up your ass, put on sunglasses and prance around like Tom Cruise in Risky Business and sing Positive Touch? Oh wait, that's JoePa!!


PS I like Positive Touch

Feel no shame St John! Sure, the song starts out as a jaunty little cod-Motown pop number but then it transforms itself into a soaring and melancholic work of utter majesty! And it features one of Perry's finest ever performances too - and this alone gives the song classic status.

Or maybe I've just had too much coffee this morning....

[Abitaman]

I really like Butterfly, as I have said before it reminds me of my daughter. Generations is my second favorite Journey cd. So I don't see what the fuss is about. The band did great on this cd.-ERIC

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Butterfly is a solid song. It's a standout. It embodies what JOURNEY is about: change/evolution/rebirth. It's the scarab in another form. The lyrics are poignant and express the woman NOT "like" a butterfly but AS THE butterfly. Beautiful metaphor. Beautiful song wrapped in some beautiful guitar work. Generations could easily have been focused around that song.

People want to say Butterfly is "gay". I have to say that an album title like Generations and a song that pays homage to the generations of fans is a piss poor sellout entirely lacking of any imagination and by far more gay than Butterfly (despite the fact that I quote a line from the song in my sig!). GOD! Even the album cover was a ripoff of CAPTURED's! What about GENERATE - that has a little more muscle and sex appeal at least.

All of you SA/Butterfly haters are clueless. You don't know a good song when you hear one - especially one that embodies the most recognizable motifs of JOURNEY's work!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Yea, yea. Whatever Mr Jameson I mean St John.

Now, I, of course picked 4. I see it as a song kinda like Lights or After The Fall or Eyes Of A Woman, that although mild is NOT a ballad.

Matt's terrific at making these kind of distinctions I'd like his opinion on the thing, too.

If he can STAND giving this Augeri-fronted Journey track another listen before weighing in....

PS: You better footnote JR for using his Joemama nickname for me. We know the bastard's looking

Red - I just gave Butterfly another listen and do you know what? I can't for the life of me understand why everyone is giving this song such a hard time. I'd say it was a ballad myself - but that's hardly a reason to dislike the song (christ, we're all fans of Journey here so all this macho crap about ballads on a board devoted to the greatest balladeers of all-time is mystifying). I guess it's maybe a bit shapeless...

Excellent observation, Matt. I don't know if they were trying to be shapeless however it certainly echoes the flight of a butterfly. Butterflies tend to flutter and drift in the wind. It seems to me that regardless of the desired effect - the shapelessness works for the song's context.

[AR]

I like to use a magnifying glass to burn butterfies wings off and kill them.

[Sassie]

I think it's a ballad and I love it.

[Lady Luck]

I will defend the Arrival CD. Can't do it on Butterfly though. I am consistent.

I think I'm one of the few that likes Arrival too.

Actually, I do like Neals guitar on Butterfly. But the rest is shit. Deens tinkering homosexual cymbal work is also embarrassing. I gave him shit for that last February.

As much as I love Deen, I almost spit my diet coke on my monitor reading that!

To answer the question at hand, I hate the song.

[styxman]

Hey just for the record I don't like the song, so don't group me in with all the nonsense

[jrnyman28]

Chiming in late on this one, but I think the problem with Butterfly is that it never really goes anywhere. I think the subject matter is unique and symbolic. But it meanders, losing it's way. I think TNC used to say that the Steve Augeri penned material would have greatly benefitted from Jon Cain's songwriting prowess. JC would have shaped the song and taken it somewhere...but then Better Life never really goes anywhere either. Never Too Late was definately one of the best tracks on the CD with FITH and OOHW. For "signature ballads" I think KTYLM was very successful. Beyond The Clouds had a good story but still was missing something...another chance for the JC collaboration. If the band had actually WORKED on this CD instead of haphazzardly throwing it together it could have been very good.........

[jrnyman28]

BTW, I don't call Butterfly a GOOD song but I don't think it SUCKS either. And I reserve the term "ballad" for slow 'love' songs. So Butterfly does not qualify as a ballad in my ears. Journey has had MANY slow songs that are not ballads...

[ohsherrie]

OK, this thread made me get the cd out and re-evaluate the song. I originally voted that it was a ballad, but I'm changing my mind. I not a ballad, it's a meandering ramble to nowhere. The saddest part is that a rambling meander to nowhere should be a pleasant journey(pun intentional), but in this case it's a torturous one.

I'm now listening to Believe, simply because I'm typing rather than hitting the "next" button.

OK gotta hit "next" twice to get to OOHW.

[jrnyman28]

OK gotta hit "next" twice to get to OOHW.

THERE ya go!!

[ohsherrie]

OK gotta hit "next" twice to get to OOHW.

THERE ya go!!

Aw shit Gone Crazy, excuse me while I hit "next". Oh no, not Beyond the Clouds. BRB OK, Never Too Late I can deal with.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Chiming in late on this one, but I think the problem with Butterfly is that it never really goes anywhere. I think the subject matter is unique and symbolic. But it meanders, losing it's way. I think TNC used to say that the Steve Augeri penned material would have greatly benefitted from Jon Cain's songwriting prowess. JC would have shaped the song and taken it somewhere...but then Better Life never really goes anywhere either. Never Too Late was definately one of the best tracks on the CD with FITH and OOHW. For "signature ballads" I think KTYLM was very successful. Beyond The Clouds had a good story but still was missing something...another chance for the JC collaboration. If the band had actually WORKED on this CD instead of haphazzardly throwing it together it could have been very good.........

My only beef with it is that it's too long. I think that gives the perception that it doesn't go anywhere. I think it DOES go somewhere but it gets drawn out into a longer, "epic" song which I don't think works well for its message.

I agree about working the CD. MANY of the songs seem to "drift" as they're just too long.