OT: Global Warming (continued from "Who will take the h

[RedWingFan]

Can anyone answer this question?

Why doesn't Al Gore accept the debates when he's challenged to them by scientists or scholars that disagree with him?

That's complete bullshit. You people just can't accept the truth - agreed upon by 98% of the scientists in the world who study this theory in any capacity - and it's no use arguing with you.

Just because Al Gore helped bring this issue to the forefront does NOT make it a "Liberal" issue. With a couple of notorious exceptions - the liar Mitt Romney and Duncan Hunter - even the Republican Presidential candidates have all either agreed with FACTUAL SCIENCE or at the very least mandated further research into the theory or possible solutions to this devastating trend we have embarked upon.

RaiderFan, your ignorant Avatar quote speaks volumes about your inability to NOT make EVERY issue a "partisan" one. By the way - when Rice and Bush met with Clinton's team in late 2000, the outgoing Administration spent 30 MINUTES discussing, specifically, al-Qa'idah and Osama bin Laden. The Clinton team informed the Bush team this would be their #1 FOREIGN POLICY CONCERN. It's an indisputable fact that this happened, not subject to debate.

The U.S. should have stayed in Afghanistan and finished the motherfucker off. Instead, they called off the search and invaded a country that had NOTHING...repeat, N O T H I N G, to do with 9/11. 9/11 had EVERYTHING to do with Bush's pro-Israeli and staunchly anti-Arab foreign policy. Yes, the plan took years to implement, but the Clinton administration had respect for the Arab culture and Islam and almost forged a peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

Incidentally, don't patronize me or label me a "liberal". As a citizen of both the U.S. and the U.K., I have participated in numerous elections in my time on this earth, and I've voted for conservative, middle-of-the-road, and left-leaning candidates. My votes have been cast entirely based upon the individual for whom I voted, and his or her perceptions of how to make this world a better place...because that's what it's about, in the end...and not predicated upon party affiliation.

RaiderFan, your affrontary attitude and confrontational banter should not go unchallenged, especially when your aspersions contradict known fact. You should do more research before making opaque references that are not supported by factual data. Go ahead and tear me to shreds, as I expect you will - I would expect nothing less. Whereas I have made a fully valid counterpoint, I'm sure you'll just make vague references to "scientists" and "politicians" without actually naming names or developing a sound retort.

You typed all that crap and still didn't answer the question.

[lakeman]

Wow, what a thread.

Now I don't believe in manmade global warming. I believe the earth has warmed and cooled over its history. The science I see from the manmade global warming religion is flawed and not consistant. It wasn't too long ago, 70's, they were talking about global cooling.

Also who is to say if the earth were warming. O. K. follow me here, that the temperature of the earth today is the optimum temperture the earth should be at. The earth may be better off a little warmer, it could be better off a little cooler. Who's to say what temperature is best suited for the planet.

Nature and atmospherics is too complex for us or these scientist to figure out. They never include all the variables.

Why is Mars getting warmer? No people there.

I tend to believe that the Sun is the main culprit in the slight increase on temps over the last few decades.

That my opinion. I will not disperage others for theirs, but it seems that for those of us who don't believe in manmade global warming are ridiculed and called idiots. That is not how science suppose to work. Science suppose to look at all the science and possibilities.

[NealIsGod]

Wow, what a thread.

Now I don't believe in manmade global warming. I believe the earth has warmed and cooled over its history. The science I see from the manmade global warming religion is flawed and not consistant. It wasn't too long ago, 70's, they were talking about global cooling.

Also who is to say if the earth were warming. O. K. follow me here, that the temperature of the earth today is the optimum temperture the earth should be at. The earth may be better off a little warmer, it could be better off a little cooler. Who's to say what temperature is best suited for the planet.

Nature and atmospherics is too complex for us or these scientist to figure out. They never include all the variables.

Why is Mars getting warmer? No people there.

I tend to believe that the Sun is the main culprit in the slight increase on temps over the last few decades.

That my opinion. I will not disperage others for theirs, but it seems that for those of us who don't believe in manmade global warming are ridiculed and called idiots. That is not how science suppose to work. Science suppose to look at all the science and possibilities.

True dat.

[7 Wishes]

NIG, this is not directed at you...rather, the previous responders.

No, you've got it wrong. People - and we're in the VAST majority - who DO believe in global warming are ridiculed by those in the minority.

RaiderFan, I most certainly did answer your asinine question. Move along now, you hatemonger.

Whatever. Keep fucking up the world and see what happens...the fact is, 98% of the scientific community KNOWS man-made global warming is happening right now.

[RedWingFan]

RaiderFan, I most certainly did answer your asinine question.

Could you please point it out to me?

Move along now, you hatemonger.

Hate monger? I asked a simple question and I'm a hate monger. And look at your angry reply? Check yourself for the hate dude. I don't post out of emotion like yourself. I think! You should take a deep breath and try it sometime
Even proponents say that if every nation that was asked to sign on to the Kyoto agreement (including the U.S) and abided by it. The result MIGHT BE, 7/10 of 1 degree. And that small figure are from the people who are for it!!!!! Too small of a change to even measure. At a cost of how many trillions of dollars the the U.S? We can't cause the Earth to cool any more than we can cause it to warm

It'd be like me telling you to buy $10,000 solar panels to install on your house, the result being you saving .25 cents on your monthly energy bill! Wouldn't make much sense would it?

Keep fucking up the world and see what happens....

It'll start cooling off again like it did from the 40's to the 70's and we won't be able to stop it!

[7 Wishes]

You were the one who was hostile. Just read your comments.

The rest of what you're quoting is complete bullshit. I shot your theory full of holes, but you didn't respond to ANY of it. I'm done with you, you ignoramus.

[RedWingFan]

Can anyone answer this question?

Why doesn't Al Gore accept the debates when he's challenged to them by scientists or scholars that disagree with him?

That's complete bullshit. You people just can't accept the truth - agreed upon by 98% of the scientists in the world who study this theory in any capacity - and it's no use arguing with you.

If all the facts are that one-side, Al Gore should be that more open to a debate shouldn't he?

Just because Al Gore helped bring this issue to the forefront does NOT make it a "Liberal" issue. With a couple of notorious exceptions - the liar Mitt Romney and Duncan Hunter - even the Republican Presidential candidates have all either agreed with FACTUAL SCIENCE or at the very least mandated further research into the theory or possible solutions to this devastating trend we have embarked upon.

Why the name calling, it's not a "liberal" or conservative issue remember?

RaiderFan, your ignorant Avatar quote speaks volumes about your inability to NOT make EVERY issue a "partisan" one. By the way - when Rice and Bush met with Clinton's team in late 2000, the outgoing Administration spent 30 MINUTES discussing, specifically, al-Qa'idah and Osama bin Laden. The Clinton team informed the Bush team this would be their #1 FOREIGN POLICY CONCERN. It's an indisputable fact that this happened, not subject to debate.

You'd like that wouldn't you. Kinda like Al Gore

9/11 had EVERYTHING to do with Bush's pro-Israeli and staunchly anti-Arab foreign policy. Yes, the plan took years to implement, but the Clinton administration had respect for the Arab culture and Islam and almost forged a peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

Is this why there were umpteen # of terrorist attacks on the U.S. and our embassies in the '90's?

Incidentally, don't patronize me or label me a "liberal".

Why would you ever think anyone would ever think of you as one of those

RaiderFan, your affrontary attitude and confrontational banter should not go unchallenged, especially when your aspersions contradict known fact.

Sorry about my "affrontary attitude and confrontational banter". I would hope they wouldn't go unchallenged or this would be a pretty boring place to be.

especially when your aspersions contradict known fact.

Speaking of aspersions and known fact. I got the drift that 9/11 was our fault. But if the Arab nation loved the U.S. under Clinton, why all the bombings in the 90's?

[RedWingFan]

You were the one who was hostile. Just read your comments.

The rest of what you're quoting is complete bullshit. I shot your theory full of holes, but you didn't respond to ANY of it.

Could you locate them in this thread for me sir? I believe I posted 3 times. Two of them asking the same simple and valid question. The other pointing out that you failed to answer the question. Where was I hostile? Please tell me! I'll promise to change my hostile ways if you could review the thread and show me.

I'm done with you, you ignoramus.

Yeah, I'm the one that's hostile My response to you is posted above. Better wait til your blood pressure comes down from 220/200 before you read it though.

[conversationpc]

No, you've got it wrong. People - and we're in the VAST majority - who DO believe in global warming are ridiculed by those in the minority...

Whatever. Keep fucking up the world and see what happens...the fact is, 98% of the scientific community KNOWS man-made global warming is happening right now.

Sorry but this assertion is just plain wrong. It's not even debatable. While it's true that a majority of scientists may agree that in man-made gobal warming, I guarantee you the percentage is nowhere near 98%. I'd be surprised if it was even as high as 75%. The 98% number comes from some claim Gore made back in 1992 and there doesn't appear to be a study backing up that claim. Regardless, there is no definitive study/poll of qualified scientists to accurately state the percentages.

The main point, however, is that those most ardent believers in man-made global warming consistently demonize scientists who believe different or even those that are undecided. Like Al Gore and Robert Kennedy, they chide those as being backwards, straw-chewing, knuckle draggers, which is far from the truth. As I've already shown, there are plenty of scientists who believe differently and that list is nowhere near exhaustive.

You keep saying that Raiderfan or whoever have not answered your assertions but you've glossed right over the ones I posted. Do your comments apply to yourself also?

Of course, the other characterization is that those who do not fall hook, line, and sinker for the man-made global warming religion want to destroy the earth, pollute the air, and other such nonsense. As stated previously, I'm all for cleaning up the environment and limiting filth being spewed into the air but the length to which the radicals want to go is much further than any real discoveries their own scientists have come up with.

[RedWingFan]

No, you've got it wrong. People - and we're in the VAST majority - who DO believe in global warming are ridiculed by those in the minority...

Whatever. Keep fucking up the world and see what happens...the fact is, 98% of the scientific community KNOWS man-made global warming is happening right now.

Sorry but this assertion is just plain wrong. It's not even debatable. While it's true that a majority of scientists may agree that in man-made gobal warming, I guarantee you the percentage is nowhere near 98%. I'd be surprised if it was even as high as 75%. The 98% number comes from some claim Gore made back in 1992 and there doesn't appear to be a study backing up that claim. Regardless, there is no definitive study/poll of qualified scientists to accurately state the percentages.

The main point, however, is that those most ardent believers in man-made global warming consistently demonize scientists who believe different or even those that are undecided. Like Al Gore and Robet Kennedy, they chide those as being backwards, straw-chewing, knuckle draggers, which is far from the truth. As I've already shown, there are plenty of scientists who believe differently and that list is nowhere near exhaustive.

You keep saying that Raiderfan or whoever have not answered your assertions but you've glossed right over the ones I posted. Do your comments apply to yourself also?

Of course, the other characterization is that those who do not fall hook, line, and sinker for the man-made global warming religion want to destroy the earth, pollute the air, and other such nonsense. As stated previously, I'm all for cleaning up the environment and limiting filth being spewed into the air but the length to which the radicals want to go is much further than any real discoveries their own scientists have come up with.

Dude, why do you have to be such a hate monger

[conversationpc]

Dude, why do you have to be such a hate monger

Yeah, isn't it great how if you don't believe that man is the main reason for global warming that, all of a sudden, you must be supportive of pollution, topsoil erosion, the dumping of pollution into the oceans, and the washing up of hypodermic needles onto our beaches. They claim the scientists who do not agree with their assertions are simply in the pockets of big business, however they fail to realize or, more likely, turn a blind eye towards the fact that Al Gore and others like him in the radical environmental movement stand to rake in absolutely huge profits if their demands are met by our government and others around the world.

I guess I'll have to put my "Evil Conservative Industries" pic back in my sig.

[conversationpc]

It also appears that the ice on Mars is melting and the temperatures have been increasing since 1999...Must be from those damn martians driving those gas-guzzling SUVs.

[RedWingFan]

It also appears that the ice on Mars is melting and the temperatures have been increasing since 1999...Must be from those damn martians driving those gas-guzzling SUVs.

Oh yeah, I remember reading about that a few months ago. Wonder what Gluteus Maximus would say about that?
Actually we did send the Mars rover up there years ago. That's probably what's causing it.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

NIG, this is not directed at you...rather, the previous responders.

No, you've got it wrong. People - and we're in the VAST majority - who DO believe in global warming are ridiculed by those in the minority.

RaiderFan, I most certainly did answer your asinine question. Move along now, you hatemonger.

Whatever. Keep fucking up the world and see what happens...the fact is, 98% of the scientific community KNOWS man-made global warming is happening right now.

I'm not compelled by anything you've posted or anything Al Gore's babbling about.

I remember back in the 70's when the scare was that another Ice Age was impending - BECAUSE OF MAN! It's so funny because I recently found a Reader's Digest "Strange Tales and Amazing Facts" book at a garage sale. It's from 1976. It includes the Ice Age scare. So funny. I was a kid back then and ALLL of the teachers and news reporters hyped it up. I was terrified that by the time I was an adult I'd be a popsicle!

Sorry. I just don't buy into the HYPE.

[7 Wishes]

Whatever. I'm far too tired to engage in these histrionics with you neo-cons.

At least conversationspc and Frye are able to articulate their assertions with some compelling arguments. RaidferFan, YOU are "glossing over" the facts...

Anyway, I could counter these contentions all night, but it's not worth my time. I'm still looking forward to meeting everyone - card-carrying ALCU tree-huggers and Dittohead Limbaugh-lovers alike.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Whatever. I'm far too tired to engage in these histrionics with you neo-cons.

At least conversationspc and Frye are able to articulate their assertions with some compelling arguments. RaidferFan, YOU are "glossing over" the facts...

Anyway, I could counter these contentions all night, but it's not worth my time. I'm still looking forward to meeting everyone - card-carrying ALCU tree-huggers and Dittohead Limbaugh-lovers alike.

It's a tough one to engage because it's so polarized.

Ultimately, the Earth's core will one day cool and PFFFT! there goes our magnetic field. The solar winds will then sweep away the face of the Earth (much like what happened to Mars) and this place won't be much good for life as we know it. Of course, that's going to take so many billions of years...

Heck, the Sun's eventually going to burn out, too.

I'm not making light of anything but in the grand scheme of things it just seems that life is rather futile.

[conversationpc]

I'm still looking forward to meeting everyone - card-carrying ALCU tree-huggers and Dittohead Limbaugh-lovers alike.

Can't stand that blowhard.

[RedWingFan]

RaidferFan, YOU are "glossing over" the facts...

A few weeks ago Al Gore wrote an op-ed in the New York Times writing this:

"Consider this tale of two planets. Earth and Venus are almost exactly the same size, and have almost exactly the same amount of carbon. The difference is that most of the carbon on Earth is in the ground--having been deposited there by various forms of life over the last 600 million years--and most of the carbon on Venus is in the atmosphere.

As a result, while the average temperature on Earth is a pleasant 59 degrees, the average temperature on Venus is 867 degrees. True, Venus is closer to the Sun than we are, but the fault is not in our star; Venus is three times hotter on average than Mercury, which is right next to the Sun. It's the carbon dioxide."

Sounds pretty scary huh? He sounds like he's really done his research about this and comparing all the planets doesn't it?
Why did Al Gore leave out this important tidbit?

The atmosphere on Mars is 95% carbon dioxide, just shy of Venus's 96%. (The Earth's atmosphere, by contrast, is less than 0.04% CO2.) Average temperature on Mars? Eighty-one below zero.

Al Gore knows this but it doesn't fit into his fear mongering agenda. It's NOT the carbon dioxide and you are being lied to! How's that for a glossed over fact?

[Marc S]

RaiderFan

Al Gore knows this but it doesn't fit into his fear mongering agenda. It's NOT the carbon dioxide and you are being lied to! How's that for a glossed over fact?

What utter bullshit. I have to agree with Naughtius Maximus, your avatar strapline betrays your ignorance and general political neocon persuasion and your opinion seems no different.

[RedWingFan]

RaiderFan

Al Gore knows this but it doesn't fit into his fear mongering agenda. It's NOT the carbon dioxide and you are being lied to! How's that for a glossed over fact?

What utter bullshit. I have to agree with Naughtius Maximus, your avatar strapline betrays your ignorance and general political neocon persuasion and your opinion seems no different.

If there was a republican spewing this same crap, my reaction would be exactly the same. What's it say about your intellect that you completely ignore my "ignorant" fact about Mars, Venus and Earth? Not good. Al Gore's either stupid or being dishonest, and I don't think he's stupid.

[squirt1]

Man tries to put everything into his lifetime. Just because we could see the changes in the ozone some 20 yrs ago doesn't mean it hasn't been going on for 4 .6 billion yrs. The biggest polluters on earth are volcanoes whether land or under the seas. The sun is next & in a 1300 cycle that is hitting Earth and Mars with tons of radiation. Lets not forget the huge amounts of methane from cattle around theworld. If Old Faithful blows again, it is over for all for all of us . Ask the reptiles on that one. There are also several other super volcanoes. There is huge $$$ in enviromental issues. If you can't get a job as Pres, then go for a cause. If anyone stuck a pin in Kennedy or Gore there would be so much methane that would convert to CO2, I shudder. Meanwhile, they have private yachts, planes huge multiple homes that are all energy hogs. Then they have the nerve to lecture us. As far as man goes, look recycle, conserve but don't let these elites dictate to you that is all your fault. The real polluters now are China and Russia and there is not a DAMN thing we can do about it. My friend and I pick up many usuable things left on the curbs and we see that someone can use it. It never sees a landfill. Everyone can do that.

[Penny]

Peter Sawyer wrote a book called "The Green Hoax Effect" quite a few years ago. Great read.

[7 Wishes]

The level of C02 is now 300% HIGHER THAN AT ANY POINT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. Don't believe it? Look it up. It's the truth. Here's a hint: don't look for your information in the bastion of conspiratorial left- or right-wing blogs and disinformation perpetuating websites. Put your perspective in neutral, do some REAL research on the internet, or preferably the library, and you may just find the truth.

Before I continue, I want to tell you that without exception, I admire everyone on this forum in their own way, and respect their opinions. This is NOT a personal vendetta, and I'm not putting you down. I'm very passionate about this issue...it's catching on much later in the U.S. than anywhere other than China.

Sorry, but if you flat-out reject this "theory", you're in denial. Strange, that 85% of Europeans and 72% of all Americans know global warming due to manmade pollution is real, yet so many on this board are in the minority. Go ahead and ignore it...pretend it's not happening. That seems to be the American way. Our children and grandchildren will wish the politicians and and hatemongers who have polarized this issue had opened their eyes and done something about it while there was still time.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

The level of C02 is now 300% HIGHER THAN AT ANY POINT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. Don't believe it? Look it up. It's the truth. Here's a hint: don't look for your information in the bastion of conspiratorial left- or right-wing blogs and disinformation perpetuating websites. Put your perspective in neutral, do some REAL research on the internet, or preferably the library, and you may just find the truth.

Before I continue, I want to tell you that without exception, I admire everyone on this forum in their own way, and respect their opinions. This is NOT a personal vendetta, and I'm not putting you down. I'm very passionate about this issue...it's catching on much later in the U.S. than anywhere other than China.

Sorry, but if you flat-out reject this "theory", you're in denial. Strange, that 85% of Europeans and 72% of all Americans know global warming due to manmade pollution is real, yet so many on this board are in the minority. Go ahead and ignore it...pretend it's not happening. That seems to be the American way. Our children and grandchildren will wish the politicians and and hatemongers who have polarized this issue had opened their eyes and done something about it while there was still time.

I'm not in denial. Did I mention here about the Earth's poles shifting? I think I did. Did you know that as we speak the Earth's magnetic field is QUICKLY showing signs of flipping again? That it's MUCH weaker than it was about 2,000 years ago? It can be measured by comparing ancient pottery with lava core samples - look it up it's fascinating as anything.

Anyway, I GET IT. I get LOTS of stuff. What I don't get is the hysteria. There's LOTS of things to be hysterical about. I'm simply not going to get hysterical about the THEORY that man is contributing/causing global warming. Every piece of supporting data seems to have an equally reasonable counter argument. It's hard to tell who's saying the truth!

I look at it this way: it's INTUITIVE that carbon emissions should be reduced and we should do everything we can to reduce them. However keep in mind that whatever we do in place of carbon emissions will have consequences, too. I was thinking the other day about a world filled with hydrogen cars. Replace EVERY car in the world with a hydrogen vehicle. The emission for hydrocars is water. What will the consequences be in regards to that emission as well as the pollution caused by extracting hydrogen?

I'm for reducing carbon emissions but let's do it in a calm, collected manner. Leave the hysterics to JRSusie.

[conversationpc]

The level of C02 is now 300% HIGHER THAN AT ANY POINT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. Don't believe it? Look it up. It's the truth. Here's a hint: don't look for your information in the bastion of conspiratorial left- or right-wing blogs and disinformation perpetuating websites. Put your perspective in neutral, do some REAL research on the internet, or preferably the library, and you may just find the truth.

Before I continue, I want to tell you that without exception, I admire everyone on this forum in their own way, and respect their opinions. This is NOT a personal vendetta, and I'm not putting you down. I'm very passionate about this issue...it's catching on much later in the U.S. than anywhere other than China.

Sorry, but if you flat-out reject this "theory", you're in denial. Strange, that 85% of Europeans and 72% of all Americans know global warming due to manmade pollution is real, yet so many on this board are in the minority. Go ahead and ignore it...pretend it's not happening. That seems to be the American way. Our children and grandchildren will wish the politicians and and hatemongers who have polarized this issue had opened their eyes and done something about it while there was still time.

No one here, that I know of, "flat-out" rejects this theory. I believe it's highly likely the theory is incorrect, however. Secondly, the ones who have done the "hatemongering" on this issue have been the ones on the wacko environmental side. People like Robert Kennedy who call those on the other side traitors for questoning the science behind the man-made global warming crowd. Nice. Equating people who have real questions about what we're being told with those who would go against their own country. Really nice.

Lastly, most of the information I've found hasn't been from conspiratorial sites.

[7 Wishes]

I wouldn't have thought so. You're obviously very intelligent. Your posts have been informative, if I didn't always agree with you.

[conversationpc]

I wouldn't have thought so. You're obviously very intelligent. Your posts have been informative, if I didn't always agree with you.

Nah, I'm one of those kwazee wight-wingers.

[Little Lenny]

While I do believe that man is partly to blame for global warming, how do we explain the periods of global warming and colling we have had before the advent of industry. And by that I mean industry as in machines etc, not the agricultural industry societies that existed originally.

I can see where Conversation PC is coming from, and I do see the validity of the line taking by him( again I assume you are a man apologies if you are not ).
up to the 1800's there was global cooling.... I think it is part and part of the a natural cycle that the world goes through, however, the cycles may have been speeded up somewhat by the development of industry and carbon emissions.
So basically I think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

[squirt1]

Yesterday,Drudge had up photos of this HUGE pollution cloud over Asia. China,India, Russia are a cause but so is the sun,forests being cut down in the Amazon, under sea volcanoes and those nasty bovines. If your going to make money at this Al & Robt then practice what you preach AT us. At least take commercial flights,get smaller homes, allow windmills off your precious Hyannis Port,drive economical cars, park the limos. You 2 are hypocrites of the highest degree. By the way Fyre, I remember 30-40 yrs ago pictures of a Mastadon that was found frozen in a cave in France. It was chewing tropical vegatation. So whatever happened, it happened instantly.

[7 Wishes]

Robert Kennedy is dead. Remember? He was assassinated by a "lone gunman", right? No fucking conspiracy there, just like his brother, who was obviously killed by Lee Harvey.

You're referring to Teddy Kennedy, I believe. Have some respect, dittohead.