Seeya Asshole

[slucero]

Here's where our money goes.... both parties are to blame....

Excerpt: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/BG1581.cfm



Proponents of big government have spent the past four years demanding that Congress and the President substantially increase spending on America's "most urgent" national priority. But what has been this most urgent national priority? Some have said education; others, health research. Still others have said farm subsidies, the war on terrorism, or homeland security. Had policymakers settled on funding one or two of the most important priorities (preferably those for which federal funding actually makes a significant difference), the federal budget would have remained somewhat under control.

But instead of making those difficult but responsible decisions, Congress and the President are simply throwing vast sums of money at all of these categories of programs. The result: an unaffordable "guns and butter" budget.

It would be a mistake to assume that Washington spenders are making any distinction between the necessities and unaffordable luxuries. Congress and the President have not even said no to the lower-priority programs (see below).



Bottom line... the federal budget is growing year-over-year.... and shows no signs of stopping... just how much is this costing the average American family?

$5000 per year in additional taxes.


The chart below pretty well illustrates where our bucks are going... DoD and H&HS get the bulk of it.




Oh ... and to stay on topic... Rove is a POS... but so are all the rest of the politicians in Washington... who should re-read Websters Dictionary definition of the word "politician" and then compare it to "public servant".

[RedWingFan]

Tax cuts were a good thing?

Absolutely! Helped to lower unemployment and created the highest $'s in federal receipts. Works every time it's tried, from JFK to Reagan.

I guess bridge collapses and sinkholes and infrastructure are just fine...no need for money to rehabilitate or reinforce said infrastructure. As long as the bridge that fell isn't in your hometown, right?

Another wacko lib argument from someone who claims he isn't a lib.

Well Dean, in 1956 the Highway Revenue Act was created "primarily to insure a dependable source of financing for the national system of interstate and defense highways. It also was the source of funding for the ramainder of the federal aid highway program prior to the creation of the HTF, highway trust fund, federal financial assistance to support highway programs came from the general fund of the treasury. While federal motor fuel and motor vehicle tax did exist before the creation of the highway trust fund, the receipts were directed to the general fund and no relationship between the receipts from these tax and federal funding for highways."
How was the HTF funded? Well, tax revenues are derived from excise taxes on highway motor fuel, truck related taxes, truck tires, sales of trucks and trailers and heavy vehicle use. The mass transit account receives a portion of the motor fuel taxes usually 2.86 cents per gallon, as does the leaking underground storage tank trust fund." The leaking underground storage tank trust fund! "The general fund receives 2.5 cents per gallon of the tax on gasohol and some other alcohol fuels. Plus, an additional 6 tenths of at least 10 percent ethanol. The highway account receives the remaining portion of the fuel tax proceeds."

They have more trust funds to fix infrastructure and so forth than anyone knew existed. And yet, where's the money? Is it like the social security trust fund? It isn't there? Remember in the previous campaigns we needed a lock box? We need a lock box! The social security trust fund is an accounting gimmick. But, despite all of that, I think Minnesota got $12 million in federal funding, $10 million of it is going to a light rail system. It's a silly notion that we don't have enough money, that we are not paying enough taxes, and that we need to raise taxes. Two million being spent for that light rail system is being spent to avoid walking paths. We have $2 million to reroute the light rail system around walking paths. We don't have enough money?

So yes, taxes are necessary and they have been paid!!! What the state gov't does with it is up to them. They should be held accountable for not spending our money on what we are taxed for. Bet you can't wait to put Hillary in charge of everyones health care either can you

[ohsherrie]

Since "pure evil shit" was not available, I settled for "all of the above"

Cat

Ditto.

[Sassie]

I voted all the above because I just couldn't make up my mind.

[strangegrey]

Aren't bridges and highways the state's responsibility?

Btw, nearly all politicians become dirtbags...by some standard. Regardless of party affiliation, power corrupts. There will always be someone to blame. And another dirtbag will replace Rove. It happens, according to 'someones' opinion within every administration.


later~

Bridges are state's responsibility, but most money comes from Federal Gov't.

It also depends on whether or not the bridge is on an interstate....if it's an interstate, it is most definitely a federally subsidized (or completely federally funded) road. Can anyone say whether the bridge that fell was a span on an interstate? (I'm just asking, cause I don't know/remember)

[Granny]

I voted for all of the above because the others just didn't fit, if choosing only one!!!!!!

PURE DIRTY EVIL PIECE OF SHIT!!! is another one we can add to the list.

[strangegrey]

The above chart posted by slucero is a good example of what i'm talking about.

Defense costs (i.e. this war) are simply preventing our ability to feed money elsewhere. If you currently support tax hikes in this country, it means you're supporting this war. Plain and simple. To pay for other shit that we can't afford now (beacuse of the war), we need more money.

I'd be perfectly happy revisiting the taxes argument, once complete drains on the nations finances are dealt with (no war, no more stupid TSA, etc, etc)...

...For now, it's nice to see one more douchebag from George's army, leaving the barracks.

[lights1961]

Aren't bridges and highways the state's responsibility?

Btw, nearly all politicians become dirtbags...by some standard. Regardless of party affiliation, power corrupts. There will always be someone to blame. And another dirtbag will replace Rove. It happens, according to 'someones' opinion within every administration.


later~

Bridges are state's responsibility, but most money comes from Federal Gov't.

It also depends on whether or not the bridge is on an interstate....if it's an interstate, it is most definitely a federally subsidized (or completely federally funded) road. Can anyone say whether the bridge that fell was a span on an interstate? (I'm just asking, cause I don't know/remember)

it was part of I 35which the states DOT gets money from the FED govt to fix... our own I 235 in Des Moines was fully reconstructed with federal and state mony over a 10 year period i think about 700 million dollars back in the late 90s and those guys have been working on the bridges roads and walk ways over the interstate for 6 years now---reconstructed EVERY BRIDGE thru the city... sorry got off target there a little..

[The_Noble_Cause]

Taxes were cut = good thing.

Good for the Chinese Government, you mean.
Name another time in recorded history we have cut taxes in a time of war?
However, I'm not surprised to hear you trot out the tired standby GOP panacea of Tax Cuts.
I haven't read the rest of this thread yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if you began to wax mystically on the endless wonders of The Free Market, or the sagacious avuncular wisdom of that overhyped nutsack Ronald Reagan.

U.S. Attorney firings = could not care less. Presidents have the authority to fire them for ANY reason. Clinton did it also.

Replacing U.S. attorneys when a new administration comes in (as Clinton did in 1993 and the Bush administration did in 2001) is not unusual. Firing attorneys with positive job evaluations mid-term who just so happen to be investigating corruption cases IS highly unusual. Worse yet, the attorneys were furtively replaced via a provision in The Patriot Act enabling the White House to bypass the Senate. This emergency provision was put in place in case of a terrorist attack, NOT to be abused at random so to evade ordinary checks and balances.

Leaking CIA names = It's been established that this was done by Dick Armitage. Besides that, Plame wasn't covert at the time and her hubby, Joe Wilson, was spouting off more classified info than anyone.

It was done by Armitage AND Rove.
As for Plame's "covert staus" you might want to take that up with the the Director of Central Intelligence, General Michael Hayden, who stated for the record:

“During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was under cover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958. At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14,2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information.”

Also, there's that pesky little thing to do with the unclassified CIA summary of Plame's employment which came out at the end of Libby's trial explicitly stating:

"At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States.”

To this day Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity maintain that Plame wasn't covert - even after the CIA has verified it.
Then again, what kind of objectivty can you possibly expect when they are private guests of White House sponsored junkets?

As I'm sitting here writing this, it's also now been revealed that the man chosen by Bush to head the Mine Safety Administraton was rejected twice by Congress on the grounds of his sub-par safety record. Bush went ahead and appointed him while Congress was in recess anyway.
Niiiiice.
Shades of Brownie and FEMA, anyone?
All you who voted for Bush should be awaiting sentencing in a holding cell and bleeding out of your anus.

[ohsherrie]

TNC .

[conversationpc]

Good for the Chinese Government, you mean.
Name another time in recorded history we have cut taxes in a time of war?
However, I'm not surprised to hear you trot out the tired standby GOP panacea of Tax Cuts.
I haven't read the rest of this thread yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if you began to wax mystically on the endless wonders of The Free Market, or the sagacious avuncular wisdom of that overhyped nutsack Ronald Reagan.

Red herring...Don't care if we've never cut taxes during war before. Revenues are still higher than ever. Deal with it.

Replacing U.S. attorneys when a new administration comes in (as Clinton did in 1993 and the Bush administration did in 2001) is not unusual. Firing attorneys with positive job evaluations mid-term who just so happen to be investigating corruption cases IS highly unusual. Worse yet, the attorneys were furtively replaced via a provision in The Patriot Act enabling the White House to bypass the Senate. This emergency provision was put in place in case of a terrorist attack, NOT to be abused at random so to evade ordinary checks and balances.

Again...I don't care. THEY CAN BE FIRED FOR ANY REASON. Period.

It was done by Armitage AND Rove.
As for Plame's "covert staus" you might want to take that up with the the Director of Central Intelligence, General Michael Hayden, who stated for the record:

“During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was under cover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958. At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14,2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information.”

Also, there's that pesky little thing to do with the unclassified CIA summary of Plame's employment which came out at the end of Libby's trial explicitly stating:

"At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States.”

To this day Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity maintain that Plame wasn't covert - even after the CIA has verified it.
Then again, what kind of objectivty can you possibly expect when they are private guests of White House sponsored junkets?

If it was verified, then it was a crime. No one was charged with the crime because none occurred. Plame was NOT covert at the time her supposed secret indentity was "leaked".

[conversationpc]

TNC .

[conversationpc]

More on whether Plame was covert at the time her identity was "leaked"...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/011038.php

Unless we're missing something, Joe Wilson has disproved his own accusation that someone in the Bush administration violated the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, USA Today reports:

The alleged crime at the heart of a controversy that has consumed official Washington--the "outing" of a CIA officer--may not have been a crime at all under federal law, little-noticed details in a book by the agent's husband suggest.

In The Politics of Truth, former ambassador Joseph Wilson writes that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse, a reading of the book indicates, was again stationed overseas. They appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins.

This meant that Plame would have been stationed in the U.S. for six years before Bob Novak published his column citing her two years ago today. As USA Today notes: "The column's date is important because the law against unmasking the identities of U.S. spies says a "covert agent" must have been on an overseas assignment "within the last five years." The assignment also must be long-term, not a short trip or temporary post, two experts on the law say.

All the Democrats who are braying for Karl Rove's head can't be very confident that he's committed a crime. If they were, they would wait for an indictment, which would be a genuine embarrassment to the administration.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If it was verified, then it was a crime. No one was charged with the crime because none occurred. Plame was NOT covert at the time her supposed secret indentity was "leaked".

You don’t get it. It’s game over. You no longer have a judicial leg to stand on.
The CIA declassified Plame’s employment summary at the end of the Libby trial.

Quoting the unclassified summary verbatim:

“At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States.”

“In October 2005, the CIA determined, in its discretion, that the public interest in allowing the criminal prosecution to proceed outweighed the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from the official disclosure of Ms. Wilson's employment and cover status. Accordingly, the CIA lifted and rolled back Ms. Wilson's cover effective 1 January 2002 and declassified the fact of her CIA employment and cover status from that date forward.”

“This determination means that the CIA declassified and now publicly acknowledges the previously classified fact that Ms. Wilson was a CIA employee from 1 January 2002 forward and the previously classified fact that she was a covert CIA employee during this period.”

More on whether Plame was covert at the time her identity was "leaked"...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/011038.php

Unless we're missing something, Joe Wilson has disproved his own accusation that someone in the Bush administration violated the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, USA Today reports:

The alleged crime at the heart of a controversy that has consumed official Washington--the "outing" of a CIA officer--may not have been a crime at all under federal law, little-noticed details in a book by the agent's husband suggest.

In The Politics of Truth, former ambassador Joseph Wilson writes that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse, a reading of the book indicates, was again stationed overseas. They appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins.

This meant that Plame would have been stationed in the U.S. for six years before Bob Novak published his column citing her two years ago today. As USA Today notes: "The column's date is important because the law against unmasking the identities of U.S. spies says a "covert agent" must have been on an overseas assignment "within the last five years." The assignment also must be long-term, not a short trip or temporary post, two experts on the law say.

All the Democrats who are praying for Karl Rove's head can't be very confident that he's committed a crime. If they were, they would wait for an indictment, which would be a genuine embarrassment to the administration.

Here’s what we know:
Valerie Plame was employed as an "energy analyst" by "Brewster Jennings and Associates." - a front for the CIA, through which information about weapons of mass destruction was gathered.

Sounds pretty covert to me.

Your article is arguing Plame’s “covert” status by using the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. The act, which defines what “covert” is, does indeed specify that an agent must reside overseas. However, aside from Plame remaining stateside over the past five years, she falls under the criteria of being covert by all other provisions contained in the act. Furthermore, this article fails to mention an alternative provision of the Act which allows that a covert agent may have served outside the U.S. instead of residing - exactly as Plame had done.

But don't take it from me, look at what the CIA had to say about it....

Craig Schmall, a CIA briefing officer for both Cheney and Libby, testified at Libby's trial on July 14, 2003, that:

"I thought there was a grave danger leaking the name of a CIA officer. Foreign intelligence services where she served now have the opportunity to investigate everyone whom she had come in contact with. They could be arrested, tortured, or killed."

As mentioned previously, the head of the CIA, General Michael Hayden also has come out and verified that Plame was covert.

The declassified CIA summary of Plame’s employment which was released only at the end of the Libby trial also stated this.

But hey, who are you gonna believe, CIA officials or powerlineblog.com?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Red herring...Don't care if we've never cut taxes during war before.

Of course you don't. You don't care what happens to this country as long as it was implemented by your team.
Why ask everyone to sacrifice and feel the pinch when the burden can fall squarely on the shoulders of the millitary and their loved ones?

Revenues are still higher than ever. Deal with it.

Maybe for the companies that make bumper sticker Jesus fish and Coffin Sized American Flags, not so sure about everyone else. Even Walmart is down right now.

Again...I don't care. THEY CAN BE FIRED FOR ANY REASON. Period.

Ummm, not without Senate confirmation they can't and they shouldn't. Bush abused the Patriot Act to fire attorneys in good standing and now, luckily, Congress has repealed the provision in the Act which he unlawfully abused.
Also, if Bush's actions were so legal, why then is there an 18 day gap in White House emails in which the plan to fire them was discussed?

Oh sure, as you're doing, one could argue everything under the guise of Executive Privelidge, even that Nixon was within his bounds when he committed the Saturday night Massacre (which contributed to his eventual downfall).
This is a nation of laws not men, Dave, and the last thing we need is politicization of the Justice Department.
FEMA, Mine Safety, the EPA, and god knows what else, have already been severely injured because of it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Bush didnt cause the bridge to collapse.. idiot.. tons and tons of weight on the bridge caused to collapse... thats what happened.

No, not Bush per se. Try Minnesota's Republican Governor instead. Despite knowing full well of Minnesota's shoddy transportation infrastructure, he saw it fit to vetoe gas taxes which would've went towards repairing precisely just that.
However, when the time came the Governor found the money ($250 million of it to be exact) to fund a new stadium for the University of Minesota.
Woo-hoo!

last i heard the new york times are starting to write that we just might WIN the war... GHASTLY bastards to you libs out there who want to pull out... they have never written that ever... i think it was from either last week or the week before.,. some one with more time can find the article....

Rick

You mean the NY Times editorial written by the two war drum thumping hacks from the Repub think tank the Brookings Institute?
For some real insight, why don't you try reading Sunday's NYTimes editorial actually penned by 82nd Airborn Division soldiers on the ground?
One of whom is now in the hospital suffering from a recent head wound.

[conversationpc]

If it was verified, then it was a crime. No one was charged with the crime because none occurred. Plame was NOT covert at the time her supposed secret indentity was "leaked".

You don’t get it. It’s game over. You no longer have a judicial leg to stand on.
The CIA declassified Plame’s employment summary at the end of the Libby trial.

Quoting the unclassified summary verbatim:

“At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson's employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States.”

“In October 2005, the CIA determined, in its discretion, that the public interest in allowing the criminal prosecution to proceed outweighed the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from the official disclosure of Ms. Wilson's employment and cover status. Accordingly, the CIA lifted and rolled back Ms. Wilson's cover effective 1 January 2002 and declassified the fact of her CIA employment and cover status from that date forward.”

“This determination means that the CIA declassified and now publicly acknowledges the previously classified fact that Ms. Wilson was a CIA employee from 1 January 2002 forward and the previously classified fact that she was a covert CIA employee during this period.”

I am at least willing to admit that Plame's status has not been identified for certain based upon statements/articles such as the following...

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2 ... e_pla.html

So, is Ms. Plame covert? We now have the belated and uncontested opinion of a prosecutor who was unwilling to argue this point previously to add to the stack of unpersuasive opinions. My official editorial position remains unchanged - we don't know, the legal work to be establish this has not been done, and we are not likely to find out.

My questions are: If plame was indeed covert as the CIA is apparently claiming and others claim, why have they not prosecuted anyone because of it? In fact, the whole investigation into who leaked her named only ended up in a prosecution for obstruction of justice against Libby. If it is cut and dried that she was covert, I would venture to think that more serious charges would've come out of that investigation.

My personal opinion of this is, and has been since the beginning of this story, is that the CIA is trying to get back at the President and/or his administration over the ousting of former CIA director George Tenet.

Of course you don't. You don't care what happens to this country as long as it was implemented by your team.
Why ask everyone to sacrifice and feel the pinch when the burden can fall squarely on the shoulders of the millitary and their loved ones?

Don't try feeding me that BS about not caring what happens to this country. You're an imbecile if you believe that. I would no more accuse you of that than I would anyone else and you ought to be ashamed for even bringing that to the table. If you haven't figured out by now that I'm not a homer for the Republicans then you're either much less intelligent than I thought you were or you're just being downright dishonest in order to score a cheap political point. My guess is it's the latter.

Regardless, this line of crap about raising taxes to "sacrifice" and "feel the pinch" is hooey. There is no need to raise taxes when there is literally tons of fat that can and should be trimmed from the budget to begin with. But perhaps you think it is wiser to continue studying gaseous cows or whether or not people have sex for pleasure?

If you're going to cry out against "teams" then how about that Democrat team that is doing such a wonderful job in Congress? The team that has brought Congress to its lowest approval ratings ever, even lower than Bush's. Pelosi said things would be different, but it appears to be business as usual, doesn't it?

[The_Noble_Cause]

My questions are: If plame was indeed covert as the CIA is apparently claiming and others claim, why have they not prosecuted anyone because of it? In fact, the whole investigation into who leaked her named only ended up in a prosecution for obstruction of justice against Libby. If it is cut and dried that she was covert, I would venture to think that more serious charges would've come out of that investigation.

Can't prove intent.
There is not enough evidence to show Armitage, Rove, or Libby deliberately knew and violated a 1982 law banning the outing of a covert CIA agent or the Espionage Act.

My personal opinion of this is, and has been since the beginning of this story, is that the CIA is trying to get back at the President and/or his administration over the ousting of former CIA director George Tenet.

It's an interesting thought.
If the CIA does have an axe to grind you wouldn't know it from the CIA report released today pinning the blame on Tenet for 9/11.

Don't try feeding me that BS about not caring what happens to this country. You're an imbecile if you believe that. I would no more accuse you of that than I would anyone else and you ought to be ashamed for even bringing that to the table. If you haven't figured out by now that I'm not a homer for the Republicans then you're either much less intelligent than I thought you were or you're just being downright dishonest in order to score a cheap political point. My guess is it's the latter.

Spare me. You people not only do not hesitate to shamelessly drape yourselves in the flag, you continually stick it between your legs and tug it back and forth like a spunk-crusted bath towel.

If you're going to cry out against "teams" then how about that Democrat team that is doing such a wonderful job in Congress? The team that has brought Congress to its lowest approval ratings ever, even lower than Bush's. Pelosi said things would be different, but it appears to be business as usual, doesn't it?

Nope.
Already the Democratic Congress with merely a hair’s breadth majority has accomplished more than the Republican Congress did.
Including:

-The first minimum wage increase in a decade;

-Finally enforcing the 9/11 Commissions’ recommended anti-terrorism steps (i.e. broader screening of cargo, allocating federal grants to cities at high-risk, improving emergency workers' communications systems);

-Passing bills to help students handle soaring college costs;

-A popular measure allowing broader stem cell research that supporters hope will help cure Parkinson's disease and other incurable illnesses was passed a second time – (vetoed by Bush);

-The Dems have also pushed through ethics and lobbying reforms.

That's not even all of it.
The poll numbers are circling the drain, in my opinion, largely because of not ending Iraq and the immigration reform.

[conversationpc]

Spare me. You people not only do not hesitate to shamelessly drape yourselves in the flag, you continually stick it between your legs and tug it back and forth like a spunk-crusted bath towel.

Once again, instead of using outlandish rhetoric, which is only aimed at inflaming, how about something concrete? That's right, you don't have anything concrete. As far as the "you people" crack, how about providing evidence that I've done that at any point in the past. Do it. You won't because there's no evidence of it.

-The first minimum wage increase in a decade;

Yeah, THAT'S something to be real proud of. The government shouldn't be in the business of setting wages in the first place and the minimum wage was never intended to be a livable wage anyway. Yeah, good going, changing something that is only garnered to get more votes instead of actually doing something helpful.

-Finally enforcing the 9/11 Commissions’ recommended anti-terrorism steps (i.e. broader screening of cargo, allocating federal grants to cities at high-risk, improving emergency workers' communications systems);

I'll hold my applause on this one until it finally happens. The government already has tons of laws on the books that aren't currently being enforced. What makes you think they will actually enforce these.

-Passing bills to help students handle soaring college costs;

Yet another well-intentioned yet misguided use of Federal tax dollars. The government's involvement in funding education at any level is the source of the problem, not the solution.

-A popular measure allowing broader stem cell research that supporters hope will help cure Parkinson's disease and other incurable illnesses was passed a second time – (vetoed by Bush);

Hope...That's the operative word there and also something that is much more likely in the study of adult stem cells rather than fetal stem cells.

-The Dems have also pushed through ethics and lobbying reforms.

I'll believe they're serious about this when they actually begin following their own laws. The Democrats are just as bad, as the Republicans are.

Some of you liberals are just as "rah rah" for the home team as you claim us conservatives are.

[squirt1]

I have to hand it to Hillary. She said we are NOT leaving Iraq for maybe 20 months. The Democrats know it ,too. We are NOT going to turn the 2nd biggest oil reserve in the world to the Russians, who left in convoys when we entered from the south or to Iran who supports terrorists and would seize those revenues to fund even more terrorism. Those convoys were Russian special ops who buried their loot that they were selling Sadam in the Becca Valley. Any country with satalite technology knows exactly where, especially the Isralies. We are in WW III and most don't even get it. How many busted attacks the FBI and CIA has thwarted in this country,since 9/11 we will never know . Seattle is looking for 2 hanging around ferries now. We have been lucky so far. Very lucky!!!!!!!