Jeremey, your new employee number is...

[NealIsGod]

Schon has only done ONE thing since he was in his early teens.... hes never had a regular job....

More to the point - Since his teens he's been surrounded by people who do nothing but praise him, tell him he's a prodigy, a "guitar-god". Being 16 and in Santana... then jamming with Clapton, and being asked to join Cream are not the things that happen to "normal" teenagers.... then in his 20's and 30's... really LIVING the rock-star life... sex, drugs, R&R... the sense of entitlement really does fuck with ones mind, and miss-shape ones character...

To his credit, Schon also focused his energies on his talent since his teens... and has reaped the rewards of that focus. BUT - its quite possible he also missed out on some of the other things that shape the character of "regular" people....

Simply put - he's not like us "regular" folk... and its probably not accurate to base ones opinion of him on what us regular folks would consider a "normal" upbringing....

I would say you're probably right. Good post.

[Dream After Dream]

So very sad, and yet funny.

Hello Jeremey, my name is Lisa and I am the HR Director of the Journey organization. Welcome aboard and your new employee number is 364189. You will use this number when completing timesheets, which are due each Friday no later than 5:00 p.m. PST. Failure to submit timesheets in a timely fashion could result in your paycheck not getting issued. In addition, I'd like to go over some of the conditions of your compensation plan:

- It is the organization's expectation that you will write one new song per week. This song should fit the same genre as our current catalog, as we don't see any value in exploring anything new, music-wise.
- You must, without fail, consistently create the "Steve Perry magic" when collaborating with any band member.
- You must continue to grow your hair, at the minimum rate of 1-inch per week until it is straight and six inches below the shoulder. Additionally, it is the expectation that you remain clean-shaven with the exception of mini-muttonchop sideburns that must be worn at all times.
- For live shows, tight jeans, Nike Cortez sneakers, yellow leopard-skin shirts, and texedo tails must be worn at all times. On this point, there is absolutely no negotiation and will hereafter be referred to as "deal-breakers" in your employment agreement with our organization.
- We would prefer it if you could also expand your nose to be larger and somewhat disproportionate to your face. If this is not genetically possible, a schnoz extension or rhinoplasty enhancement will be acceptable pending the approval of the other band members.
- Lastly, you will both introduce yourself and be referred to hereafter as "Steve".

Failure to meet or exceed any of these conditions will result in your immediate termination from the organization with no warning or due course. Also, these conditions are subject to change without notice or confirmation with you, and could also result in the termination of your employment. We also reserve the right to terminate your employment for whatever reason we deem as "non-80's behavior" or, "non-Perry emmulation". This would be at our descretion and, again, without warning or due course to you.

Thank you, Jeremey and, again, Welcome to the Journey organization.

[strangegrey]

Ahhh....good old Behind The Music. What we may not have seen is the context Perry's statement was taken out of, Jeremey. He may have been referring to a specific time period. For all we know his statement could have been preceded by "Yeah, after 1983 their was a lot of division in the band. From that point on, I NEVER REALLY FELT LIKE A PART OF THE BAND." VH-1 may have edited that out for dramatic purposes...something networks LOVE to do. I'm not putting words in Steve Perry's mouth or trying to defend him, but I think it's only fair that we assume a lot of those segments were edited to cause as much shit stirring as possible.

Ahh, BTM. SJ, all very good comments regarding this....this happens all the time....especially on MTV/VH1. Hell, MTV *invented* reality TV...which is anything but! They film everything and try to form a story out of what substantial footage they have. I remember, the second Real World in NYC that MTV did...there was some blonde kid that said something that might have, in a certain context, been considered racist...some black chick on the show got all pissy about it. They capitalized on it...and 'projected' a feud that lasted the entire season. HOWEVER, In real life, these two people are reportedly best friends and became so, on that show. If they were constantly fighting over race during the show, how did they eventually become best friends?!


But with respect to the specific statement that Perry said....you also have to take into consideration that Perry had said some things *just* before that...something like "I know this is hard to believe, but I never felt like part of the band!"....the impression I was left with was that it was a general statement, not one about a particular time frame. Could it have been edited a certain way? Sure...but it would have been harder, given the preamble statement.


Another thing, and this is a personal reason why I feel that Perry's statement wasn't taken out of context...is that I am 100% convinced that Perry bargained for editor control, as Herbie has maintained, in exchange for his interview. Think about Perry....the only saps he *ever* talks to (or through) is Insane (fan) Asylum...he *never* talks to anyone but....and I suspect he's been burned by out of context quoting (or is just a control freak).

Here's where the aforementioned personal bit comes in...Back in 2001, when the BTM aired (can't remember the exact date, if it was 2000, I beg pardon!)...I was still one of the main guys responsible for the Journey website and one of the head moderators on Whack Talk. There was a heated argument regarding this very subject back then. Loons defending Perry...others outraged at such comments by him. I was quite adament in my beliefs that Perry bargained for production control....

...a few days later, low and behold, I find myself on the phone with the producer of the BTM. I forgot his name...regardless, It was fucking odd, STRANGE.... to say the least. He was ALL CHARGED up at the fact that I was convinced Perry was the guy pulling the strings. He spent an hour on the phone with me, literally defending each and every nuance of the BTM as his decission, NOT perry's. The phone call ended with me going "well, we all believe what we believe" basically suggesting that I still don't buy it....but I agreed to tone down my rhetoric.

Now, here's the strange thing about this. Why the fuck would the producer of a show call me, some little joe blow, dickhead webmaster, to defend what anyone watching the show would otherwise assume....which is that the producer actually produced the show!!!! I mean, shit....just because I pop onto gateworld.net and argue that Daniel Jackson shouldn't have died in season 5 of SG-1, it doesn't mean that Brad Wright, Joe Mallozzi and Robert Cooper are going to call me up and try to convince me otherwise!?!?!

Why on earth would this guy waste an hour on the phone with me (especially when he was reportedly deep in preparation for the REO gaywagon BTM) to try to change my mind on a subject that really would have zero bearing on jack shit....?!?!?!


Usually, the government doesn't come to check you out, unless you blurt the specific details of a UFO landing. Because, unless you have the facts perfectly correct, it's simply plausable deniability.

So, given the above fact pattern, my guess is that I struck a nerve....and this louse needed to defend his honor....because tv producers need to maintain their credibility...


Just my $0.02 on this...I do think that there was a great deal of out of context wordage on the BTM...I just think less of it happened on Perry's side, than we might be led to believe....

[LazzMan]

Ahhh....good old Behind The Music. What we may not have seen is the context Perry's statement was taken out of, Jeremey. He may have been referring to a specific time period. For all we know his statement could have been preceded by "Yeah, after 1983 their was a lot of division in the band. From that point on, I NEVER REALLY FELT LIKE A PART OF THE BAND." VH-1 may have edited that out for dramatic purposes...something networks LOVE to do. I'm not putting words in Steve Perry's mouth or trying to defend him, but I think it's only fair that we assume a lot of those segments were edited to cause as much shit stirring as possible.

Ahh, BTM. SJ, all very good comments regarding this....this happens all the time....especially on MTV/VH1. Hell, MTV *invented* reality TV...which is anything but! They film everything and try to form a story out of what substantial footage they have. I remember, the second Real World in NYC that MTV did...there was some blonde kid that said something that might have, in a certain context, been considered racist...some black chick on the show got all pissy about it. They capitalized on it...and 'projected' a feud that lasted the entire season. HOWEVER, In real life, these two people are reportedly best friends and became so, on that show. If they were constantly fighting over race during the show, how did they eventually become best friends?!


But with respect to the specific statement that Perry said....you also have to take into consideration that Perry had said some things *just* before that...something like "I know this is hard to believe, but I never felt like part of the band!"....the impression I was left with was that it was a general statement, not one about a particular time frame. Could it have been edited a certain way? Sure...but it would have been harder, given the preamble statement.


Another thing, and this is a personal reason why I feel that Perry's statement wasn't taken out of context...is that I am 100% convinced that Perry bargained for editor control, as Herbie has maintained, in exchange for his interview. Think about Perry....the only saps he *ever* talks to (or through) is Insane (fan) Asylum...he *never* talks to anyone but....and I suspect he's been burned by out of context quoting (or is just a control freak).

Here's where the aforementioned personal bit comes in...Back in 2001, when the BTM aired (can't remember the exact date, if it was 2000, I beg pardon!)...I was still one of the main guys responsible for the Journey website and one of the head moderators on Whack Talk. There was a heated argument regarding this very subject back then. Loons defending Perry...others outraged at such comments by him. I was quite adament in my beliefs that Perry bargained for production control....

...a few days later, low and behold, I find myself on the phone with the producer of the BTM. I forgot his name...regardless, It was fucking odd, STRANGE.... to say the least. He was ALL CHARGED up at the fact that I was convinced Perry was the guy pulling the strings. He spent an hour on the phone with me, literally defending each and every nuance of the BTM as his decission, NOT perry's. The phone call ended with me going "well, we all believe what we believe" basically suggesting that I still don't buy it....but I agreed to tone down my rhetoric.

Now, here's the strange thing about this. Why the fuck would the producer of a show call me, some little joe blow, dickhead webmaster, to defend what anyone watching the show would otherwise assume....which is that the producer actually produced the show!!!! I mean, shit....just because I pop onto gateworld.net and argue that Daniel Jackson shouldn't have died in season 5 of SG-1, it doesn't mean that Brad Wright, Joe Mallozzi and Robert Cooper are going to call me up and try to convince me otherwise!?!?!

Why on earth would this guy waste an hour on the phone with me (especially when he was reportedly deep in preparation for the REO gaywagon BTM) to try to change my mind on a subject that really would have zero bearing on jack shit....?!?!?!


Usually, the government doesn't come to check you out, unless you blurt the specific details of a UFO landing. Because, unless you have the facts perfectly correct, it's simply plausable deniability.

So, given the above fact pattern, my guess is that I struck a nerve....and this louse needed to defend his honor....because tv producers need to maintain their credibility...


Just my $0.02 on this...I do think that there was a great deal of out of context wordage on the BTM...I just think less of it happened on Perry's side, than we might be led to believe....

I'm not sure any of this makes any difference. I remember those debates and most people were very quick to villianize Perry. How dare he make those comments. Also, the band has always inferred that the TBF experiment and "no-tour" was a one-sided deal that was Steve Perry's fault. In light of recent events, it's clear that there are two sides, at least, to every story. For my money, all of these guys seem to be on the business end of "stupid".

[EightyRock]

I don't know why he would call you, either, other than if someone at BT had directed them to you. I remember when the producer posted a couple times at BT during all that heated BTM discussion. People had e-mailed him relentlessly to talk more about the show. So he did.

[strangegrey]

I'm not sure any of this makes any difference. I remember those debates and most people were very quick to villianize Perry. How dare he make those comments. Also, the band has always inferred that the TBF experiment and "no-tour" was a one-sided deal that was Steve Perry's fault. In light of recent events, it's clear that there are two sides, at least, to every story. For my money, all of these guys seem to be on the business end of "stupid".

What do you mean, makes a difference....a difference in what? whether or not you believe what you believe? Thats great. I'm not expecting you to change your mind, i'm just giving the rationale for why I feel the way I do.

Yes, there are two sides to every story....and it's clear that shithead and twinkletoes are just as much to blame for alot of the issues surrounding Journey as Perry is...

...but specifically, with respect to the BTM, the fact pattern of things presented do fall in Perry's favor far more than not...and it wasn't always the case. There was an emergency edit after the first few ads were aired. These changes only supported Perry's position, not shithead and twinkletoes' position....so it stands to reason that Perry had some significant editorial power with respect to the BTM.

[strangegrey]

I don't know why he would call you, either, other than if someone at BT had directed them to you. I remember when the producer posted a couple times at BT during all that heated BTM discussion. People had e-mailed him relentlessly to talk more about the show. So he did.

No no no...I'm not questioning why he called me. He *said* why he called me.

I'm questioning the underlying reason why he was motivated to call me. The two are not mutually exclusive...

i.e. I can punch a hole in the wall beause I'm pissed, but something had to piss me off before I could punch a hole in the wall...if that makes any sense.

[Rick]

I'm not sure any of this makes any difference. I remember those debates and most people were very quick to villianize Perry. How dare he make those comments. Also, the band has always inferred that the TBF experiment and "no-tour" was a one-sided deal that was Steve Perry's fault. In light of recent events, it's clear that there are two sides, at least, to every story. For my money, all of these guys seem to be on the business end of "stupid".

What do you mean, makes a difference....a difference in what? whether or not you believe what you believe? Thats great. I'm not expecting you to change your mind, i'm just giving the rationale for why I feel the way I do.

Yes, there are two sides to every story....and it's clear that shithead and twinkletoes are just as much to blame for alot of the issues surrounding Journey as Perry is...

...but specifically, with respect to the BTM, the fact pattern of things presented do fall in Perry's favor far more than not...and it wasn't always the case. There was an emergency edit after the first few ads were aired. These changes only supported Perry's position, not shithead and twinkletoes' position....so it stands to reason that Perry had some significant editorial power with respect to the BTM.

Hey, hey, if you're going to call them shithead and twinkletoes, you're going to have to call Perry a pelican or something. This just isn't fair.

[LazzMan]

I'm not sure any of this makes any difference. I remember those debates and most people were very quick to villianize Perry. How dare he make those comments. Also, the band has always inferred that the TBF experiment and "no-tour" was a one-sided deal that was Steve Perry's fault. In light of recent events, it's clear that there are two sides, at least, to every story. For my money, all of these guys seem to be on the business end of "stupid".

What do you mean, makes a difference....a difference in what? whether or not you believe what you believe? Thats great. I'm not expecting you to change your mind, i'm just giving the rationale for why I feel the way I do.

Yes, there are two sides to every story....and it's clear that shithead and twinkletoes are just as much to blame for alot of the issues surrounding Journey as Perry is...

...but specifically, with respect to the BTM, the fact pattern of things presented do fall in Perry's favor far more than not...and it wasn't always the case. There was an emergency edit after the first few ads were aired. These changes only supported Perry's position, not shithead and twinkletoes' position....so it stands to reason that Perry had some significant editorial power with respect to the BTM.

My point was that they are all assholes and everybody is to blame to a certain degree. I was just talking about how everybody was making Perry out to be the asshole because of what he said. It is clear now that there were assholes...plural. I'm not trying to tell anybody what to believe. I just remember how big of a deal Perry's comments were at the time. Perry may have had more control, sans the phone call from the producer but, I'm sure that "shithead and twinkletoes" were right there stinking things up too.

[EightyRock]

Well, if there's any way at all to screw things up, Princess and the Pea would find a way.

[strangegrey]

Not arguing with you there, Lazzman. Perry may have come out of the BTM smelling a bit stinky....but right now, he smells like a dozen roses. Ironic.

As far as a nickname for Perry, Rick....Pelican works.

[ohsherrie]

My point was that they are all assholes and everybody is to blame to a certain degree. I was just talking about how everybody was making Perry out to be the asshole because of what he said. It is clear now that there were assholes...plural. I'm not trying to tell anybody what to believe. I just remember how big of a deal Perry's comments were at the time. Perry may have had more control, sans the phone call from the producer but, I'm sure that "shithead and twinkletoes" were right there stinking things up too.

And there ya go. Well said.

[lidobar]

how sad the only info we get from the band is through singers that have been let go. there's no other place on the 'Net that I found that actively talks about Journey anymore. I'm glad this forum is maintained for Journey fans. I am and always will be a Journey fan.
It's always the music that's important and like Herbie Herbert said, "(Fans) fall in love with the songs, fell in love with the music and the passion of the performances that is undeniable, and just read into that that these guys are bigger, better, deeper people than they might really."

[Ms_M]

Schon has only done ONE thing since he was in his early teens.... hes never had a regular job....

More to the point - Since his teens he's been surrounded by people who do nothing but praise him, tell him he's a prodigy, a "guitar-god". Being 16 and in Santana... then jamming with Clapton, and being asked to join Cream are not the things that happen to "normal" teenagers.... then in his 20's and 30's... really LIVING the rock-star life... sex, drugs, R&R... the sense of entitlement really does fuck with ones mind, and miss-shape ones character...

To his credit, Schon also focused his energies on his talent since his teens... and has reaped the rewards of that focus. BUT - its quite possible he also missed out on some of the other things that shape the character of "regular" people....

Simply put - he's not like us "regular" folk... and its probably not accurate to base ones opinion of him on what us regular folks would consider a "normal" upbringing....

I have thought this about Neal's behavior and decisions for years. Many folks have had "different" upbringings, but I think his about takes the cake.

[strangegrey]

Simply put - he's not like us "regular" folk... and its probably not accurate to base ones opinion of him on what us regular folks would consider a "normal" upbringing....

With all due respect, that's bullshit.

Society demands certain expectations of all those that live in society. When citizens break the laws (or not live up to those expectations), they are punished....But that's not the only way that society exacts a punishment to those that don't live up to expectations.

What you're suggesting here, is that we cut him some slack, even though he's a douchebag, and treats people like shit....it's OK because he's a rock star and he was asked to join Derek and the Domino's at an early age. (To my knowledge, he was never invited to join Cream but D&tD)....

the fact of the matter is that we expect certain decencies out of people, irrespective of their upbringing and their profession.

What if I were your neighbor and woke up every morning, walked out of my house, over to your house, pissed on your flowers and took my morning shit on your front door step....if I were a physician or an accountant, you'd be fucking pissed. By your logic, it's ok, however, that I do such a thing because I was playing with Santana at 16, was a rock star or never had a father that gave two shits about me to teach me right or wrong?!!?!?!?

Thats rediculous.....

Sorry, the way people currently feel about Neal Schon (i.e. he's a complete and utter douchebag) is society's (speaking in terms of the journey fan base) way of tipping the balance scales and exacting punishment.

Don't try to justify his behavior or worse, try to tell those that are acting out their roles as societal punishers to *not* do what they feel is apropriate.....just because he chose to play guitar instead of wash daddys buick...

[Saint John]

Simply put - he's not like us "regular" folk... and its probably not accurate to base ones opinion of him on what us regular folks would consider a "normal" upbringing....

With all due respect, that's bullshit.

Society demands certain expectations of all those that live in society. When citizens break the laws (or not live up to those expectations), they are punished....But that's not the only way that society exacts a punishment to those that don't live up to expectations.

What you're suggesting here, is that we cut him some slack, even though he's a douchebag, and treats people like shit....it's OK because he's a rock star and he was asked to join Derek and the Domino's at an early age. (To my knowledge, he was never invited to join Cream but D&tD)....

the fact of the matter is that we expect certain decencies out of people, irrespective of their upbringing and their profession.

What if I were your neighbor and woke up every morning, walked out of my house, over to your house, pissed on your flowers and took my morning shit on your front door step....if I were a physician or an accountant, you'd be fucking pissed. By your logic, it's ok, however, that I do such a thing because I was playing with Santana at 16, was a rock star or never had a father that gave two shits about me to teach me right or wrong?!!?!?!?

Thats rediculous.....

Sorry, the way people currently feel about Neal Schon (i.e. he's a complete and utter douchebag) is society's (speaking in terms of the journey fan base) way of tipping the balance scales and exacting punishment.

Don't try to justify his behavior or worse, try to tell those that are acting out their roles as societal punishers to *not* do what they feel is apropriate.....just because he chose to play guitar instead of wash daddys buick...

Exactly Frank. Common decency is an innate concept any individual born with normal brain function possesses. In Neal's case he may not possess that now, but he certainly did at one time.

[LazzMan]

Simply put - he's not like us "regular" folk... and its probably not accurate to base ones opinion of him on what us regular folks would consider a "normal" upbringing....

With all due respect, that's bullshit.

Society demands certain expectations of all those that live in society. When citizens break the laws (or not live up to those expectations), they are punished....But that's not the only way that society exacts a punishment to those that don't live up to expectations.

What you're suggesting here, is that we cut him some slack, even though he's a douchebag, and treats people like shit....it's OK because he's a rock star and he was asked to join Derek and the Domino's at an early age. (To my knowledge, he was never invited to join Cream but D&tD)....

the fact of the matter is that we expect certain decencies out of people, irrespective of their upbringing and their profession.

What if I were your neighbor and woke up every morning, walked out of my house, over to your house, pissed on your flowers and took my morning shit on your front door step....if I were a physician or an accountant, you'd be fucking pissed. By your logic, it's ok, however, that I do such a thing because I was playing with Santana at 16, was a rock star or never had a father that gave two shits about me to teach me right or wrong?!!?!?!?

Thats rediculous.....

Sorry, the way people currently feel about Neal Schon (i.e. he's a complete and utter douchebag) is society's (speaking in terms of the journey fan base) way of tipping the balance scales and exacting punishment.

Don't try to justify his behavior or worse, try to tell those that are acting out their roles as societal punishers to *not* do what they feel is apropriate.....just because he chose to play guitar instead of wash daddys buick...

Agreed 110%!!! All liberal, free-flying rock 'n' roll lifestyle shit aside, you just don't treat people (human beings) like that. Don't forget about his highness, Mr. Cain. He's a cocksucker too. We are talking about two spoiled-rotten brats with I.Q.'s in the mid-to-upper 80's. Like the guy says, you can't fix stupid but, these guys are in a dimension of stupid and selfish that 99.9% will never understand.

[larryfromnextdoor]

Agreed 110%!!! We are talking about two spoiled-rotten brats with I.Q.'s in the mid-to-upper 80's. Like the guy says, you can't fix stupid but, these guys are in a dimension of stupid and selfish that 99.9% will never understand.

your pushing your luck little man....

[slucero]

Simply put - he's not like us "regular" folk... and its probably not accurate to base ones opinion of him on what us regular folks would consider a "normal" upbringing....

With all due respect, that's bullshit.

Society demands certain expectations of all those that live in society. When citizens break the laws (or not live up to those expectations), they are punished....But that's not the only way that society exacts a punishment to those that don't live up to expectations.

What you're suggesting here, is that we cut him some slack, even though he's a douchebag, and treats people like shit....it's OK because he's a rock star and he was asked to join Derek and the Domino's at an early age. (To my knowledge, he was never invited to join Cream but D&tD)....

the fact of the matter is that we expect certain decencies out of people, irrespective of their upbringing and their profession.

What if I were your neighbor and woke up every morning, walked out of my house, over to your house, pissed on your flowers and took my morning shit on your front door step....if I were a physician or an accountant, you'd be fucking pissed. By your logic, it's ok, however, that I do such a thing because I was playing with Santana at 16, was a rock star or never had a father that gave two shits about me to teach me right or wrong?!!?!?!?

Thats rediculous.....

Sorry, the way people currently feel about Neal Schon (i.e. he's a complete and utter douchebag) is society's (speaking in terms of the journey fan base) way of tipping the balance scales and exacting punishment.

Don't try to justify his behavior or worse, try to tell those that are acting out their roles as societal punishers to *not* do what they feel is apropriate.....just because he chose to play guitar instead of wash daddys buick...

Wrong Grey.... its not bullshit.. just my opinion...

I never said it was "OK" or suggested "we cut him some slack".... re-rerad mah post bro...

alll I was suggesting was that he acts like he does because of what he was exposed to, and how he was treated from the time he was 16....

NOT trying to justify his behavior at all... just posting an opinion on it... but if yer gonna jump down mah throat on it - then FUCK OFF and have a nice life....


John... have any proof that anything is "inate"?... unless you have had the same life you really can't comment... because you have no similar reference point.


Geez.... U guys are so wound up we can't even have a conversation.... I'm done with this place.... hasta.

Drew - please delete my account....

[larryfromnextdoor]

Geez.... U guys are so wound up we can't even have a conversation.... I'm done with this place.... hasta.

you hold your horses right there!!! get back here.. actually , there is a new thread to be had..

[Saint John]

Simply put - he's not like us "regular" folk... and its probably not accurate to base ones opinion of him on what us regular folks would consider a "normal" upbringing....

With all due respect, that's bullshit.

Society demands certain expectations of all those that live in society. When citizens break the laws (or not live up to those expectations), they are punished....But that's not the only way that society exacts a punishment to those that don't live up to expectations.

What you're suggesting here, is that we cut him some slack, even though he's a douchebag, and treats people like shit....it's OK because he's a rock star and he was asked to join Derek and the Domino's at an early age. (To my knowledge, he was never invited to join Cream but D&tD)....

the fact of the matter is that we expect certain decencies out of people, irrespective of their upbringing and their profession.

What if I were your neighbor and woke up every morning, walked out of my house, over to your house, pissed on your flowers and took my morning shit on your front door step....if I were a physician or an accountant, you'd be fucking pissed. By your logic, it's ok, however, that I do such a thing because I was playing with Santana at 16, was a rock star or never had a father that gave two shits about me to teach me right or wrong?!!?!?!?

Thats rediculous.....

Sorry, the way people currently feel about Neal Schon (i.e. he's a complete and utter douchebag) is society's (speaking in terms of the journey fan base) way of tipping the balance scales and exacting punishment.

Don't try to justify his behavior or worse, try to tell those that are acting out their roles as societal punishers to *not* do what they feel is apropriate.....just because he chose to play guitar instead of wash daddys buick...

Wrong Grey.... its not bullshit.. just my opinion...

I never said it was "OK" or suggested "we cut him some slack".... re-rerad mah post bro...

alll I was suggesting was that he acts like he does because of what he was exposed to, and how he was treated from the time he was 16....

NOT trying to justify his behavior at all... just posting an opinion on it... but if yer gonna jump down mah throat on it - then FUCK OFF and have a nice life....


John... have any proof that anything is "inate"?... unless you have had the same life you really can't comment... because you have no similar reference point.

Geez.... U guys are so wound up we can't even have a conversation.... I'm done with this place.... hasta.

Yes, it's called common sense. Neal may have been exposed to the road and I understnad your point about that. However, he's also been married numerous times. He's seen how families operate. He's been exposed to "normal" folk. He CHOOSES to continue to live his life in a cunning, cut throat and otherwise indecent fashion and no amount of excuses you come up with will rationally explain his behavior.

[strangegrey]

Wrong Grey.... its not bullshit.. just my opinion...

I never said it was "OK" or suggested "we cut him some slack".... re-rerad mah post bro...

alll I was suggesting was that he acts like he does because of what he was exposed to, and how he was treated from the time he was 16....

NOT trying to justify his behavior at all... just posting an opinion on it... but if yer gonna jump down mah throat on it - then FUCK OFF and have a nice life....


John... have any proof that anything is "inate"?... unless you have had the same life you really can't comment... because you have no similar reference point.


Geez.... U guys are so wound up we can't even have a conversation.... I'm done with this place.... hasta.

Drew - please delete my account....

Oh my, is the Midol not working tonight?

Listen, I'm sorry, I don't cut Neal Schlong any slack or his twinkletoed fair fuckwad of a douchebag keyboardist. They're both SHIT human beings.

I dont know whether your defending them or trying ti justify what *others* think/feel. If it's the later, you should know by now that I don't cut *them* any slack either. I'm going to be pretty hard on Journey for what they did over the past few years...sorry, it's not only the way I feel, it's the right thing to do as I am acting out my societal obligation to show just what kind of douchebags Fucka and Fro are...

[Journey69]

One reason why the band started going down hill is because Perry had the need to do a solo album..he didn't want to be type cast and have people think he couldn't do it on his own..Lou Gramm did the same thing ,albeit with greater success..But both of them screw both of their bands up by doing that..I mean,that was probably a slap in the face by the bands like they felt they weren't good enough or something..That could have totally started the rift..JMO If Perry came back,everyone would rejoice and we would get a barry manilow album..Journey was all about rock and a few ballads..Perry turns the album into all ballads now..Its easier on his throat..Stop smoking gonga Steve!

[Journey/Survivor]

Perry made those comments about never feeling like he was part of the band. But as far back as the early 80's he chose to travel to and from shows separtely from the rest of the band. So you definitely have to wonder how much of it was all in his head?

Plus, if he didn't feel like part of the band then why did he write the line "we believed in music, brothers till the end?"

Perry is himself a loon.

[ohsherrie]

Here we go again. Frig and Fro shit on yet another singer and Perry is about to be skewered for it.

[Jeremey]

Lou Gramm did the same thing ,albeit with greater success..But both of them screw both of their bands up by doing that..I mean,that was probably a slap in the face by the bands like they felt they weren't good enough or something..That could have totally started the rift..

How do you figure Lou Gramm had greater solo success than Steve Perry?

[conversationpc]

Lou Gramm did the same thing ,albeit with greater success..But both of them screw both of their bands up by doing that..I mean,that was probably a slap in the face by the bands like they felt they weren't good enough or something..That could have totally started the rift..

How do you figure Lou Gramm had greater solo success than Steve Perry?

That's what I was wondering. I imagine "Street Talk" was slightly more successful than Gramm's "Ready or Not", though "Long Hard Look" was certainly more successful than FTLOSM.

[NealIsGod]

How many solo hits did Gramm have? I can only think of Midnite Blue. Any others?

Perry had Oh, Sherrie, Foolish Heart... what else is considered a hit?

[conversationpc]

How many solo hits did Gramm have? I can only think of Midnite Blue. Any others?

Perry had Oh, Sherrie, Foolish Heart... what else is considered a hit?

"Midnight Blue" went top 5. From "Long Hard Look", "Just Between You and Me" was a top 10 hit and "True Blue Love" also was in the Top 40.

[ScarabGator]

Looks to me like Journey69's point was proven. We may love the Perry stuff more but Gramm had more top40's. Midnight Blue was a great song.