OT: Mitchell Report - Steroids in Baseball

[Enigma869]

I'm a huge Cubs fan but I'm really surprised Sammy Sosa is not on the list.

I was also surprised to not see Sosa's name on the list. That said, the list is admittedly "hit or miss". Also, there is no valid test for HGH, so it's entirely possible that many players have been using HGH and not anabolic steroids. I personally saw rubber balls bounce out of Sosa's bat onto the field, when he broke a bat, and I lost ALL respect for the guy, from that point forward! I also have lost all respect for Roger Clemens, who I idolized as a teenager, growing up in Boston!


John from Boston

[KenTheDude]

Albert Pujols is another name that is curiously off of the list.

[strangegrey]

This report is STILL just the tip of the iceberg. Sosa's gonna get outed some day. Same with Pujols.


I have to say this...I'm sick to my stomach. I've been an advocate of stripping Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire of their records for a while now.

I now have to consider the fact that the NY Yankees as a team, might be in the same position, given the fact that during 2000, they won a world series with at least 4 principle players on the 2000 team juicing. As a yankee fan, I'm torn up.


I've been very adamantly angry at MLB for not reacting harsher....the steriod use is JUST as damaging as The Black Sox incident OR Pete Rose/Gambling. Yet, Selig has remained powerless to do something about it.


I'm done with baseball....I'm just thankful that Tino Martinez is not on that list....as I might have considered slitting my wrists at news like that!

[ohsherrie]

I'm done with baseball....I'm just thankful that Tino Martinez is not on that list....as I might have considered slitting my wrists at news like that!

I'm just glad Cal Ripken isn't on the list. One thing I want to know though is, if they disqualify these guys from the Hall of Fame will they also disqualify Darryl Strawberry and all the cocaine addicts like him as well? Hell no they won't disqualify any of them, but they won't let Pete Rose in.

[RedWingFan]

I'm done with baseball....I'm just thankful that Tino Martinez is not on that list....as I might have considered slitting my wrists at news like that!

I realized I'd gone to my last Tigers game when I spent $15 on 3 hot dogs.
Rifriggindiculous. I'm fine with watching on tv and eating coney's in town. Coneys are 100 times better anyway.

[CatEyes]

This report is STILL just the tip of the iceberg. Sosa's gonna get outed some day. Same with Pujols.


I have to say this...I'm sick to my stomach. I've been an advocate of stripping Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire of their records for a while now.

I now have to consider the fact that the NY Yankees as a team, might be in the same position, given the fact that during 2000, they won a world series with at least 4 principle players on the 2000 team juicing. As a yankee fan, I'm torn up.


I've been very adamantly angry at MLB for not reacting harsher....the steriod use is JUST as damaging as The Black Sox incident OR Pete Rose/Gambling. Yet, Selig has remained powerless to do something about it.


I'm done with baseball....I'm just thankful that Tino Martinez is not on that list....as I might have considered slitting my wrists at news like that!

Agreed 100% Frank.

Not only does this tear me up as a Yankees fan, it also worries me on other levels.

One issue that no one has addressed is the lateness of the MLB to start "policing" themselves. They were aware of the problem a long time ago.

Back in the 70s, pro football recognized that there was a promblem when players started dying from brain tumours

The steroids not only enhance strength and growth, they also cause damage to healthy young athletes that leads to their early deaths.

There may be some League, if not franchise responsibilities in that.

Now not one person in professional sports can claim any culpable deniability.

As long as it is allowed to go on unchecked and kill people - they are all guilty, whether charged or not.

Just this feline's humble opinion.



Cat

PS. Right now the Marlins are starting to be exposed as well.. One report says that some players were given 2 week warnings of "random" drug tests. And this was during their pennant-winning season

Pathetic

[conversationpc]

I don't understand how athletes can be happy with their performance knowing that they did not fully achieve it under their own talent but had to rely on outside assistance.

[CatEyes]

I don't understand how athletes can be happy with their performance knowing that they did not fully achieve it under their own talent but had to rely on outside assistance.

Very true.

I also feel that it may (or should) be a violation of the "sportsman like conduct" clause that, at one time, was standard in all contracts.

Hell, it has probably been removed so people can still keep making money hand over steroid-vial without threat.

Cat

[marco17]

I don't understand how athletes can be happy with their performance knowing that they did not fully achieve it under their own talent but had to rely on outside assistance.

I don't think they really care. They are off in their own little world. They do it to stay good or be better then they should be so they get big contracts or can compete longer. That's the business they are in at the end of the day. How can I play longer and make more insane amounts of money for playing a game.

[NealIsGod]

I don't understand how athletes can be happy with their performance knowing that they did not fully achieve it under their own talent but had to rely on outside assistance.

I don't think they really care. They are off in their own little world. They do it to stay good or be better then they should be so they get big contracts or can compete longer. That's the business they are in at the end of the day. How can I play longer and make more insane amounts of money for playing a game.

Yup. And a lot of 'em probably live by the credo if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'.

[Red13JoePa]

This report is STILL just the tip of the iceberg. Sosa's gonna get outed some day. Same with Pujols.

I agree with this.
But for right now, I'm making Sosa's 66 the single-season bombs record and Hank Aaron is ABSOLUTELY back on top @ 755 career.

[strangegrey]

The fact of the matter is that this SHATTERS the integrity of the game...and the awards and records set from the mid-90s, straight through to now.

What good is information if you can't attest to it's acuracy?

How does anyone know who or what deserves what?


For all we know 10+ principle players on the Red Sox 04 and 07 team are juiced? Did they make the ultimate integrity sacrifice to shed themselves of the burden of the curse of the bambino? That list on the report contains well over 15 current and former Red Sox players.


The fact of the matter is that we literally have to call into question EVERY damn world series title, MVP title, record-broken, Allstar appearance from the baseball strike of 94, straight through to NOW.


And that's the sad , cold, hard truth here.....baseball's integrity is completely shattered.


All for a few more home runs and more money in Selig and Fehr's pocket!


Fucking integrityless sport has MLB become.

[NealIsGod]

Why don't they just let everybody use whatever they want, then it's an even playing field again.

[Red13JoePa]

I love the Yankee/Bosox centric media is differing their coverage of RogRoid ClemGrowth and Android Pettoste.

Clemens, who's a traitor in Bos and never was a "true yankee" is the raging egomaniacal Roidhead and Pettite, MR cleancut Yankee is the martyr who did all for the team.

Roids is roids, babe.

[conversationpc]

The fact of the matter is that this SHATTERS the integrity of the game...and the awards and records set from the mid-90s, straight through to now.

What good is information if you can't attest to it's acuracy?

How does anyone know who or what deserves what?


For all we know 10+ principle players on the Red Sox 04 and 07 team are juiced? Did they make the ultimate integrity sacrifice to shed themselves of the burden of the curse of the bambino? That list on the report contains well over 15 current and former Red Sox players.


The fact of the matter is that we literally have to call into question EVERY damn world series title, MVP title, record-broken, Allstar appearance from the baseball strike of 94, straight through to NOW.


And that's the sad , cold, hard truth here.....baseball's integrity is completely shattered.


All for a few more home runs and more money in Selig and Fehr's pocket!


Fucking integrityless sport has MLB become.

As bad as MLB is, the NFL is even worse.

[Enigma869]

For all we know 10+ principle players on the Red Sox 04 and 07 team are juiced? Did they make the ultimate integrity sacrifice to shed themselves of the burden of the curse of the bambino? That list on the report contains well over 15 current and former Red Sox players.

Let me first say that I think the list that was presented to the public is ABSURD! Hell, Giambi wasn't even on the list, and we all know his story! Also, the entire world knew Canseco was on the juice for his ENTIRE CAREER! I also think guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Alex Rodriguez are guilty, and just somehow managed to not find themselves on the list!

Now...onto other matters...How shocking that a Yankees fan is blasting the Red Sox, after this debacle. Are you shitting me???? 15 current or former Red Sox players??? You better check your math. The following players on the list HAVE played for the Red Sox, during the course of their careers:

Roger Clemens
Mo Vaughn
Jose Canseco
Chris Donnels (40 career games in 1995)
Brendan Donnelly
Eric Gagne (less than half a season with the Red Sox)
Paxton Crawford (15 career games with the Red Sox)
Mike Stanton
Kent Mercker (5 career games with the Red Sox in 1999)

First off, to correct you, there are ZERO players, who are currently on the Red Sox roster. Gagne signed with Milwaukee (thank god), and Donnelly is a free agent! The only players that were mentioned on "the list" who I viewed as significant contributors to the Red Sox were: Clemens, Vaughn, and Stanton, and not one of them were a part of a championship with the Red Sox! The other problem with your shot across the bow at the Red Sox is that not ONE SINGLE guy on that list was a contributor to either World Series title the Red Sox won! Hell, Gagne never got out of a single game, without giving up 4 runs!

While I certainly agree with your point about baseball lacking integrity, please don't make up facts about the Red Sox, that are complete LIES, to make excuses for the Yankees complete ineptitude, over the past 7 seasons! The truth of the matter is that I have ZERO doubt that numerous players on EVERY team (including the Red Sox and Yankees) were guilty of some things they shouldn't have been doing. As a lifelong Sox fan, I just can't sit by and listen to another moronic Yankee babble on about complete and utter bullshit! Yankees fans telling me that because of the names that were published, the Red Sox championships don't count, while completely ignoring the fact that guys on that list significantly contributed to the last Yankees title is FUCKING RIDICULOUS! Give me a fucking break! Oh, and one other thing....FUCK THE YANKEES!


John from Boston

[RedWingFan]

Why don't they just let everybody use whatever they want, then it's an even playing field again.

Yeah, like that old SNL skit, "the all steroid olympics" or whatever it was called. The guys bending over for a deadlift and his arms rip right out of his shoulders.

[conversationpc]

Yeah, like that old SNL skit, "the all steroid olympics" or whatever it was called. The guys bending over for a deadlift and his arms rip right out of his shoulders.

I remember that one. Hilarious!

[strangegrey]

...blah blah blah blah....Yankees fans telling me that because of the names that were published, the Red Sox championships don't count, while completely ignoring the fact that guys on that list significantly contributed to the last Yankees title is FUCKING RIDICULOUS! Give me a fucking break! Oh, and one other thing....FUCK THE YANKEES!


John from Boston

Dude, calm the fuck down. WHat I am saying is that EVERY title, EVERY record, EVERY accolade won or earned in the past 12 years is now without merit and integrity.

BTW, Jason Varitek is reportedly involved in this as well...

[Rockindeano]

Albert Pujols is another name that is curiously off of the list.

Why? He has always mashed and taken care of himself, just like Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr have.

[Rockindeano]

Enigma, what's your problem? Senator Mitchell is tied to the fucking Red Sox, and is a completely fair man, a uncompromised man with a stellar career.

[Red13JoePa]

Bonds 73*, 756*
Patriots 3 Superbowls*
BoSox 2 World Series*

[strangegrey]

Tip of the ice berg dude...

If you think this steroids scandal is about the Yankees, you're burying your head in the sand. EVERY OUNCE of MLB success that has been achieved since 1995, can be attributed in no small part to steroids.

That puts your Idiot team of 04 and the 07 fuckwads front and center, alongside the Yankees (and the 28 other teams in basebal)...in shame.


This isn't about one team verus another, except, maybe in your Massholian, paranoid mind. Really...I could give a shit about it being a Yankee v. Red Sox thing.

It's about a success at the result of fruad thing!

[Enigma869]

Enigma, what's your problem? Senator Mitchell is tied to the fucking Red Sox, and is a completely fair man, a uncompromised man with a stellar career.

Dean...

I don't have a "problem", as you put it! I'm not sure what your point is about Mitchell or trying to defend the guy with me. I never uttered a single word about Mitchell or his ingegrity. By all accounts, he's a stand-up guy, with a reputation that nobody can question, in spite of his ties to the Red Sox organiization! The only point I made was that for anyone to think that this list is everyone who is guilty, is kidding themselves, and I think even Mitchell said as much! Any steroid list that leaves Jose Canseco and Mark McGuire off the list, CLEARLY isn't a comprehensive list!

As for my going after Strangegrey...It's nothing personal. The guy made a blanket statement about 15 past or present Red Sox players being on the list (which was simply not true), and then went on to say that their two championships were tainted, somehow, when not ONE FUCKING guy from that list had any contribution to either championship! I know he went on to say in another post that he was talking about all records and all teams, but his post singled out two championships by ONE team and one team only, and never mentioned any other team! I simply DESPISE the Yankees and their fans! Always have and always will! Yankees fans are the only shitheads I've ever seen in my life, chuck D cell batteries onto the field at Yankee Stadium, in an attempt to injure opposing players! I just think they're despicable human beings! Listen, at the end of the day, it's all in good fun. I am simply not someone who will EVER back down from taking on a scumbag Yankees fan! They're all douchebags


John from Boston

p.s. Did I mention how happy I am that the Patriots have a New York team in town this weekend

[Just Mindy]

Dean...

I don't have a "problem", as you put it! I'm not sure what your point is about Mitchell or trying to defend the guy with me. I never uttered a single word about Mitchell or his ingegrity. By all accounts, he's a stand-up guy, with a reputation that nobody can question, in spite of his ties to the Red Sox organiization! The only point I made was that for anyone to think that this list is everyone who is guilty, is kidding themselves, and I think even Mitchell said as much! Any steroid list that leaves Jose Canseco and Mark McGuire off the list, CLEARLY isn't a comprehensive list!

As for my going after Strangegrey...It's nothing personal. The guy made a blanket statement about 15 past or present Red Sox players being on the list (which was simply not true), and then went on to say that their two championships were tainted, somehow, when not ONE FUCKING guy from that list had any contribution to either championship! I know he went on to say in another post that he was talking about all records and all teams, but his post singled out two championships by ONE team and one team only, and never mentioned any other team! I simply DESPISE the Yankees and their fans! Always have and always will! Yankees fans are the only shitheads I've ever seen in my life, chuck D cell batteries onto the field at Yankee Stadium, in an attempt to injure opposing players! I just think they're despicable human beings! Listen, at the end of the day, it's all in good fun. I am simply not someone who will EVER back down from taking on a scumbag Yankees fan! They're all douchebags


John from Boston

p.s. Did I mention how happy I am that the Patriots have a New York team in town this weekend

Seems to me you're making a blanket statement about Yankee fans here, John.

As a "shithead" and "despicable human being" oh wait and a "douchebag" as well, I suppose you'd expect me to maybe tell you to go fuck yourself, but I won't...not ALL of us chuck D-cells.

[KenTheDude]

Albert Pujols is another name that is curiously off of the list.

Why? He has always mashed and taken care of himself, just like Alex Rodriguez and Ken Griffey Jr have.

Ken Griffey, Jr. has been on the DL practically more times than he has played. Granted some of that is because he plays the game hard and isn't afraid to crash into the wall if necessary. But if someone keeps coming up with injuries time after time, (i.e. muscle strains & pulls) you gotta wonder if it's because of steroids.

Puhols on the other hand just has that steroid-looking body. There is no proof he is juiced and remains innocent until proving otherwise.

[strangegrey]

As for my going after Strangegrey...It's nothing personal. The guy made a blanket statement about 15 past or present Red Sox players being on the list (which was simply not true), and then went on to say that their two championships were tainted, somehow, when not ONE FUCKING guy from that list had any contribution to either championship! I know he went on to say in another post that he was talking about all records and all teams, but his post singled out two championships by ONE team and one team only, and never mentioned any other team! I simply DESPISE the Yankees and their fans! Always have and always will! Yankees fans are the only shitheads I've ever seen in my life, chuck D cell batteries onto the field at Yankee Stadium, in an attempt to injure opposing players! I just think they're despicable human beings! Listen, at the end of the day, it's all in good fun. I am simply not someone who will EVER back down from taking on a scumbag Yankees fan! They're all douchebags

Oh, Red Sox fans are *quite* the statesmen.
You're so full of shit, your eyes are brown.

The fact of the matter is that Boston fans are just as reprehensible in behavior as Yankee fans, and up until a few years ago, 10 times worse. Would you like me to cite the various gang-style beatings delivered to Yankee fans that have happened on the streets outside of Fuckway Park? There's a fucking book of them!

You want to know what kind of class ShitSox fans have?

A buddy of mine, went down to Walt Disney World with his family a few years ago. He decided to do a character breakfast one morning...and wore a NY Yankee t-shirt. He bumped into a guy at on the waffle line who saw his shirt and the guy started talking to him like they were lifelong enemies. The type of situation that would make any one feel uncomfortable in a public place. After about 10 minutes of such harassment, my friend figures out that this guy's main beef, was that he was a ShitSox fan from Salem....and because my friend had the unlucky misfortune of putting on one of FOUR world championship T-shirts he had at his disposal....he got absolutely mauled by this complete fucking BOSOX douchebag.

The guy spent 50 minutes harassing my friend with his family. Yelling across the Crystal Palace At WDW..."Your team sucks, Yank-me's Suck!! You assholes are going down!" After about 50 minutes of this, this Salem fuckwad was not only thrown out of the Crystal Palace, but arrested.

All my friend wanted to do was share a nice breakfast with his family in Disney World....and he (and his poor family) got mauled by a loser Masshole...I'm sorry, I don't see Yankee fans doing this sort of thing, in a state 1000 miles away!


So, before you start casting the stone about what kind of fans Yankee fans are....make sure you're own fucking house is clean, shitface!

[Enigma869]

Oh, Red Sox fans are *quite* the statesmen.
You're so full of shit, your eyes are brown.

The fact of the matter is that Boston fans are just as reprehensible in behavior as Yankee fans, and up until a few years ago, 10 times worse. Would you like me to cite the various gang-style beatings delivered to Yankee fans that have happened on the streets outside of Fuckway Park? There's a fucking book of them!

You want to know what kind of class ShitSox fans have?

A buddy of mine, went down to Walt Disney World with his family a few years ago. He decided to do a character breakfast one morning...and wore a NY Yankee t-shirt. He bumped into a guy at on the waffle line who saw his shirt and the guy started talking to him like they were lifelong enemies. The type of situation that would make any one feel uncomfortable in a public place. After about 10 minutes of such harassment, my friend figures out that this guy's main beef, was that he was a ShitSox fan from Salem....and because my friend had the unlucky misfortune of putting on one of FOUR world championship T-shirts he had at his disposal....he got absolutely mauled by this complete fucking BOSOX douchebag.

The guy spent 50 minutes harassing my friend with his family. Yelling across the Crystal Palace At WDW..."Your team sucks, Yank-me's Suck!! You assholes are going down!" After about 50 minutes of this, this Salem fuckwad was not only thrown out of the Crystal Palace, but arrested.

All my friend wanted to do was share a nice breakfast with his family in Disney World....and he (and his poor family) got mauled by a loser Masshole...I'm sorry, I don't see Yankee fans doing this sort of thing, in a state 1000 miles away!


So, before you start casting the stone about what kind of fans Yankee fans are....make sure you're own fucking house is clean, shitface!

All I can say to you about that story is that if it's actually true, the guy deserved to be arrested and booted in the ass! I can also tell you that it wasn't me who was harassing your friend! I could tell you many other stories, that were far worse than that. I've seen endless Yankees fans get into beefs with Sox fans over the years, and it's all kind of silly. Clean, good fun is one thing, but to come to blows over a fucking game (and as we now know...a fucking CHEATING game) is plain stupid!

We can both tell anecdotal stories about people being harassed because of a t-shirt and beat-downs outside of Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park. It doesn't change the fact that I have NEVER EVER EVER seen fans in Boston throw batteries onto the field, in an attempt to injure an opposing player! As the announcers said at the time "Only in New York", and I agree 100%! As I said, it's all in good fun, for me, and really isn't personal. Truth be told Strangegrey...I've talked to you before, and you're a good dude. It doesn't change the fact that if you're a Yankees fan, I am going to take EVERY shot I can, at EVERY moment I can I've dealt with being tortured by Yankees fans my entire life, so it's fun to finally be able to give it back to them!

The truth of the matter is that growing up in Boston forced me to be around a whole lot of Yankees fans, because most of them couldn't find a college worth going to, in their own state! Up until 2004, the only line these fuckers ever had for me was "1918" (how original). Thankfully for me, Yankees fans seem to be a bit difficult to find, these days, around Boston. They don't seem to have quite the bravado they've always had, for my entire life.

One final note...In the interest of actually stating the actual facts (which is what precipitated my original post in this thread) Sportscenter listed the teams with the most offenders on the Mitchell Report. They are as follows:

NUMBER ONE - THE NEW YORK YANKEES - 22 players
2. Baltimore Orioles - 18
3. Los Angeles/Anaheim/California/Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim (or whatever the fuck their name is this week) - 16


John from Boston

[Uno_up]

I am going to take EVERY shot I can, at EVERY moment I can...I've dealt with being tortured by Yankees fans my entire life, so it's fun to finally be able to give it back to them! The truth of the matter is that growing up in Boston forced me to be around a whole lot of Yankees fans, because most of them couldn't find a college worth going to, in their own state! Up until 2004, the only line these fuckers ever had for me was "1918" (how original).

You scare me, dude...really. All those painfully disturbing memories.

[CatEyes]

A buddy of mine, went down to Walt Disney World with his family a few years ago. He decided to do a character breakfast one morning...and wore a NY Yankee t-shirt. He bumped into a guy at on the waffle line who saw his shirt and the guy started talking to him like they were lifelong enemies. The type of situation that would make any one feel uncomfortable in a public place. After about 10 minutes of such harassment, my friend figures out that this guy's main beef, was that he was a ShitSox fan from Salem....and because my friend had the unlucky misfortune of putting on one of FOUR world championship T-shirts he had at his disposal....he got absolutely mauled by this complete fucking BOSOX douchebag.

The guy spent 50 minutes harassing my friend with his family. Yelling across the Crystal Palace At WDW..."Your team sucks, Yank-me's Suck!! You assholes are going down!" After about 50 minutes of this, this Salem fuckwad was not only thrown out of the Crystal Palace, but arrested.

Sounds like 'roid rage

Cat