Foreigner and Journey

[NealIsGod]

Singers are far from disposable. All I mean is that Gramm was a shell of himself when I saw him. For them to be able to grab Kelly was great because now the fans can hear the songs performed at a higher level than they could have if Gramm was still in the band. And if Steve Perry had his say, live Journey shows would have ended forever in 1986. Of course, the future of Journey looks bleak now, but Augeri and Jeff were excellent replacements.

[finalfight]

Whilst I enjoyed seeing Priest with Rob Halford on the Angel of Retribution tour I must say that Tim Owens completely smokes Halford vocally even bettering Rob on many of the orginal songs. This was especially evident in a live environment and is evidenced on the many live recordings available, with the exception of Live Insurrection from Halford which has been fixed up beyond recognition!

The guy who sings in the Brazilian Priest tribute band, Hell Patrol, smokes both of them easily. Listen to the "Stand by for Exciter" at about 2:55.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYRFM5z0JFY

Their cover of "Hell Patrol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xI3-Puy ... re=related

Meh, his tone is very similar to Halfords - more so than Owens but he is frequently off key in a variety of the Hell Patrol clips. His version of Metal Gods is especially painful -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qCINu2B ... re=related

when compared with Halfords -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAbse9QC16w

and especially Ripper's take -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ri_lZ-rpzE

No-one smokes the ripper! Good cover band though.

[Jeremey]

When I saw Priest on the same tour at Nissan Pavillion (Northern VA), he was still unnaturally good. I understand the tour had some off nights and some fantastic nights for him. Actually, on the bonus DVD that came with AOR, Rob stunk quite a bit compared to how incredible he was at Nissan Pavillion. Had I seen some of that footage before hand I would have been a little wary of going to the show. He kept his voice under control through much of the show but his screams and high notes were still dead on that night.

[finalfight]

When I saw Priest on the same tour at Nissan Pavillion (Northern VA), he was still unnaturally good. I understand the tour had some off nights and some fantastic nights for him. Actually, on the bonus DVD that came with AOR, Rob stunk quite a bit compared to how incredible he was at Nissan Pavillion. Had I seen some of that footage before hand I would have been a little wary of going to the show. He kept his voice under control through much of the show but his screams and high notes were still dead on that night.

Same experience for me in the UK, Rob was definately on the ball that night! However I was massively underwhelmed by the DVD release of the tour which was frankly horrible. Same thing with Dio's Holy Diver Live release which I believe was recorded on the last night of the tour and is also a bit of an embarrasment for the usually on form singer - notice Heaven & Hell got the DVD release out of the way almost as soon as the tour started this time around...

[Rip Rokken]

When I saw Priest on the same tour at Nissan Pavillion (Northern VA), he was still unnaturally good. I understand the tour had some off nights and some fantastic nights for him. Actually, on the bonus DVD that came with AOR, Rob stunk quite a bit compared to how incredible he was at Nissan Pavillion. Had I seen some of that footage before hand I would have been a little wary of going to the show. He kept his voice under control through much of the show but his screams and high notes were still dead on that night.

Same experience for me in the UK, Rob was definately on the ball that night! However I was massively underwhelmed by the DVD release of the tour which was frankly horrible. Same thing with Dio's Holy Diver Live release which I believe was recorded on the last night of the tour and is also a bit of an embarrasment for the usually on form singer - notice Heaven & Hell got the DVD release out of the way almost as soon as the tour started this time around...

I know one time I heard him sounding pretty terrible, and that was on the first "VH1 Rock Honors" show, along with KISS, Def Leppard and Queen. Actually, except for Queen, all of them sounded like they were having a bad night. But with Halford, it wasn't just his voice, but his delivery... He intentionally didn't pace the words with the song correctly, and it sounded like crap to me.

[sniper16]

im wondering how the fans who like neal better than perry(myself included) would feel if journey would have continued in 87 with perry and cain and no neal schon.

no collins led genesis
no hagar van halen

when i go see styx/foreigner now i listen but dont watch, ive seen ddy and lou gramm solo and watch.

[wildone]

im wondering how the fans who like neal better than perry(myself included) would feel if journey would have continued in 87 with perry and cain and no neal schon.

no collins led genesis
no hagar van halen

when i go see styx/foreigner now i listen but dont watch, ive seen ddy and lou gramm solo and watch.

My honest opinion would be they'd still be there..Usually if a guitarist leaves he can be replaced easily ...(minus a few Eddie VH Joe Satriani Steve Ray Etc) it's probably because that's all neal did was play he didn't sing so ....They probably would've made it just fine!

[Voyager]

Singers are far from disposable. All I mean is that Gramm was a shell of himself when I saw him. For them to be able to grab Kelly was great because now the fans can hear the songs performed at a higher level than they could have if Gramm was still in the band. And if Steve Perry had his say, live Journey shows would have ended forever in 1986. Of course, the future of Journey looks bleak now, but Augeri and Jeff were excellent replacements.

I know what you mean Nig. It's sad to see singers leave really good bands, whether they die like Bon Scott or just retire as Steve Perry did. I can't blame the remaining band members for wanting to continue on without them. If fans are still willing to pay to see them, more power to them.

[Red13JoePa]

Not my mind, which is why I was thrilled to have Augeri, JSS, and would've been thrilled to have you doing it. Still Journey or Foreigner to me.

Your mind is warped like a Donna Summer LP left out in the Arizona sun.

Dude, how many times do I need to tell you, if you saw Perry, basically you could retire your musical ears, because there was none better and there will never be one as good. Yes 13, he was that good.

Bah.

[Jeremey]

Same experience for me in the UK, Rob was definately on the ball that night! However I was massively underwhelmed by the DVD release of the tour which was frankly horrible. Same thing with Dio's Holy Diver Live release which I believe was recorded on the last night of the tour and is also a bit of an embarrasment for the usually on form singer - notice Heaven & Hell got the DVD release out of the way almost as soon as the tour started this time around...

Maybe they had the wrong audio feed going to the production booth...It's been known to happen!

[AR]

When I saw Priest on the same tour at Nissan Pavillion (Northern VA), he was still unnaturally good. I understand the tour had some off nights and some fantastic nights for him. Actually, on the bonus DVD that came with AOR, Rob stunk quite a bit compared to how incredible he was at Nissan Pavillion. Had I seen some of that footage before hand I would have been a little wary of going to the show. He kept his voice under control through much of the show but his screams and high notes were still dead on that night.

I was at the same show.

[ProgRocker53]

im wondering how the fans who like neal better than perry(myself included) would feel if journey would have continued in 87 with perry and cain and no neal schon.

no collins led genesis
no hagar van halen

when i go see styx/foreigner now i listen but dont watch, ive seen ddy and lou gramm solo and watch.

My honest opinion would be they'd still be there..Usually if a guitarist leaves he can be replaced easily ...(minus a few Eddie VH Joe Satriani Steve Ray Etc) it's probaly because that's all neal did was play he didn't sing so ....They probably would've made it just fine!

There is absolutely NO way Neal Schon is a replaceable guitarist! He's very much so in the league of those few you mentioned in parentheses. Unless you put somebody like, say, Steve Lukather, Steve Rothery, or John Petrucci in place of Neal... he's irreplaceable. PERIOD. Few can match his "feel" and melodic play. He was the voice of Journey long before Perry was, and still is to this day.

[X factor]

Whilst I enjoyed seeing Priest with Rob Halford on the Angel of Retribution tour I must say that Tim Owens completely smokes Halford vocally even bettering Rob on many of the orginal songs. This was especially evident in a live environment and is evidenced on the many live recordings available, with the exception of Live Insurrection from Halford which has been fixed up beyond recognition!

The guy who sings in the Brazilian Priest tribute band, Hell Patrol, smokes both of them easily. Listen to the "Stand by for Exciter" at about 2:55.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYRFM5z0JFY

Their cover of "Hell Patrol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xI3-Puy ... re=related

Meh, his tone is very similar to Halfords - more so than Owens but he is frequently off key in a variety of the Hell Patrol clips. His version of Metal Gods is especially painful -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qCINu2B ... re=related

when compared with Halfords -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAbse9QC16w

and especially Ripper's take -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ri_lZ-rpzE

No-one smokes the ripper! Good cover band though.

Yeah, but ya know what? I'll take Halford over either of those clowns any day of the week. Know why? Cause he's ROB FUCKING HALFORD!!!! And those other two, with their "great tone and wonderful pitch?" Know what they are? IMITATORS!!!!!

Ripper always did seem like a nice fellow, though...

[Rip Rokken]

Ripper always did seem like a nice fellow, though...

The movie "Rock Star" was actually inspired by his story, and its original working title was "Metal God".

[conversationpc]

Meh, his tone is very similar to Halfords - more so than Owens but he is frequently off key in a variety of the Hell Patrol clips. His version of Metal Gods is especially painful -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qCINu2B ... re=related

when compared with Halfords -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAbse9QC16w

and especially Ripper's take -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ri_lZ-rpzE

No-one smokes the ripper! Good cover band though.

Out of those clips, Ripper's is definitely the best but I've just never liked his tone. He sounds great on the screams but otherwise, he sounds like a combination of an awful death metal vocalist and a blender.

No one beats the Metal God in his prime but the dude from Hell Patrol is very good.

[finalfight]

I absolutely love Halford but Tim Owens has definitely moved out of his shadow and eclipses him as a singer in my eyes (or should that be ears?)

I would wager that it is now Halford that wishes he could imitate the quality of Tim's output on the Beyond Fear and Iced Earth releases. Certainly Halford's legendary range has diminished in recent years. In fact this raises an interesting point - how must Rob feel as the original vocalist and co-writer performing his own songs knowing that many of them have been done better by his predecessor. I bet that is quite an unusual and fairly jarring experience.

I wonder if Arnel will fair as favourably as there are certainly some similarities between the stories and talent of Halford and Owens and Perry and Pineda.

[Journey69]

im wondering how the fans who like neal better than perry(myself included) would feel if journey would have continued in 87 with perry and cain and no neal schon.

no collins led genesis
no hagar van halen

when i go see styx/foreigner now i listen but dont watch, ive seen ddy and lou gramm solo and watch.

My honest opinion would be they'd still be there..Usually if a guitarist leaves he can be replaced easily ...(minus a few Eddie VH Joe Satriani Steve Ray Etc) it's probaly because that's all neal did was play he didn't sing so ....They probably would've made it just fine!

There is absolutely NO way Neal Schon is a replaceable guitarist! He's very much so in the league of those few you mentioned in parentheses. Unless you put somebody like, say, Steve Lukather, Steve Rothery, or John Petrucci in place of Neal... he's irreplaceable. PERIOD. Few can match his "feel" and melodic play. He was the voice of Journey long before Perry was, and still is to this day.

Correct.. Steve Lukather has the same type of style..I love his guitar.. You will definitely lose something with SP and NS when replaced no matter what.. Look at 38 special.. They added a new keyboardist ,songwriter,lead singer..He was good,I liked their music,but it was also changed to his style..Night Ranger added a guitarist also,and their sound changed without Jack Blades,the same would happen to Journey also,and could be very negative..Look what happened to Hardline after Neal left..Hardline 2 was just another album..It was nothing like the 1st with Neal..

[jrnyman28]

Night Ranger added a guitarist also,and their sound changed without Jack Blades

Jack plays Bass. Night Ranger has the twin Guitar attack of Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson. Jeff Watson has been replaced, first with Reb Beach for the tour and apparantly now with someone without immediate name recognition. Their last CD Hole In The Sun still had both Brad and Jeff on it but the sound is very different.

[Journey69]

Night Ranger added a guitarist also,and their sound changed without Jack Blades

Jack plays Bass. Night Ranger has the twin Guitar attack of Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson. Jeff Watson has been replaced, first with Reb Beach for the tour and apparantly now with someone without immediate name recognition. Their last CD Hole In The Sun still had both Brad and Jeff on it but the sound is very different.

Didn't know they had a new album. Reb Beach is really good..

[X factor]

I absolutely love Halford but Tim Owens has definitely moved out of his shadow and eclipses him as a singer in my eyes (or should that be ears?)

I would wager that it is now Halford that wishes he could imitate the quality of Tim's output on the Beyond Fear and Iced Earth releases. Certainly Halford's legendary range has diminished in recent years. In fact this raises an interesting point - how must Rob feel as the original vocalist and co-writer performing his own songs knowing that many of them have been done better by his predecessor. I bet that is quite an unusual and fairly jarring experience.

I wonder if Arnel will fair as favourably as there are certainly some similarities between the stories and talent of Halford and Owens and Perry and Pineda.

I see your point . I just think that to compare the voice of Rob Halford to a guy 20 years his junior is a bit unfair. Kinda like comparing Joe Montana now to Tom brady. He probably won't stack up to the younger man. He's old! Everyone can't be Dio and still have the pipes that late in life...but if you wanna compare legacys? Halford practically invented the genre! And correct me if I'm wrong, but Ripper never had anywhere near the success that Halford did. I had the pleasure of meeting the guys in Priest in NOLA a few years back (we stayed in the same hotel- I got in the elevator to go to breakfast and there's Ian Hill and Glenn Tipton standing there! Bizarre!) I had just seen TOOL at the UNO Lakefront, and Priest had played that night in a 500 seater in Slidell, LA! Then Halford's back and BOOM - arenas again!
But I am glad Tim got some of his own with these other bands. You know alot more on that front than me, as I haven't even heard any of his other stuff. He always struck me as a tremendously decent guy (and OK, his DIAMONDS AND RUST is better than Halfords!) And it's certainly unfair not to give the guy props. He kept the train rolling for a number of years. You gotta respect that.

[Johnny Mohawk]

finalfight wrote;
I would wager that it is now Halford that wishes he could imitate the quality of Tim's output on the Beyond Fear and Iced Earth releases. Certainly Halford's legendary range has diminished in recent years. In fact this raises an interesting point - how must Rob feel as the original vocalist and co-writer performing his own songs knowing that many of them have been done better by his predecessor. I bet that is quite an unusual and fairly jarring experience.

You would "wager" that? Really?
I would bet that Halford doesn't give a rat's ass what Ripper Owens currently sounds like. Halford knows that he is who the fans want. He knows that he wrote the songs that the fans demand be played live. And he was the originator of his vocal style that Owens imitated.
Who cares what Ripper Owens sounds like singing Priest songs when Halford is out there still doing it!!!

[livin2do]

I have seen Foreigner three times. One time on purpose, two times as an opener. I've said it before and I'll say it now: they are the worst live act I've seen more than once. (Worst overall was the Moody Blues. I slept.) It's weird - I've loved their music, but it just has always sounded much better to me coming out of a radio than at a live show.

That being said, I saw Foreigner open for Def Leppard and Styx this summer. While the energy and performance of the current band is, IMO, better than it has ever been, a lot of the music just doesn't stand the test of time.

[NealIsGod]

I have seen Foreigner three times. One time on purpose, two times as an opener. I've said it before and I'll say it now: they are the worst live act I've seen more than once. (Worst overall was the Moody Blues. I slept.) It's weird - I've loved their music, but it just has always sounded much better to me coming out of a radio than at a live show.

Get the new DVD.

[Johnny Mohawk]

I've seen Foreigner live several times over the years, and admittedly, Gramm has slowed down since the brain tumor. However, every time I saw them (pre-illness), they (and especially Gramm) never failed to deliver.
Lou Gramm has one of the best voices in the genre, and even now, I would choose to see Lou Gramm and his solo band over the current "Foreigner" (which is essentially Mick Jones and his solo band).

[StoneCold]

Ripper always did seem like a nice fellow, though...

The movie "Rock Star" was actually inspired by his story, and its original working title was "Metal God".

Rip, I know you've been asked before but I missed the answer. Who's that in your new aV?

[weatherman90]

I have seen Foreigner three times. One time on purpose, two times as an opener. I've said it before and I'll say it now: they are the worst live act I've seen more than once. (Worst overall was the Moody Blues. I slept.) It's weird - I've loved their music, but it just has always sounded much better to me coming out of a radio than at a live show.

That being said, I saw Foreigner open for Def Leppard and Styx this summer. While the energy and performance of the current band is, IMO, better than it has ever been, a lot of the music just doesn't stand the test of time.

Huh? The Moody Blues rock! I thought they put on an awesome show. Justin's vocals were spot on.

[weatherman90]

Ripper always did seem like a nice fellow, though...

The movie "Rock Star" was actually inspired by his story, and its original working title was "Metal God".

Rip, I know you've been asked before but I missed the answer. Who's that in your new aV?

Its the one and only Don Dokken, and he's licking.....something

I guessed earlier that its either a pretzel or his glasses.

[weatherman90]

Ripper always did seem like a nice fellow, though...

The movie "Rock Star" was actually inspired by his story, and its original working title was "Metal God".

Rip, I know you've been asked before but I missed the answer. Who's that in your new aV?

Its the one and only Don Dokken, and he's licking.....something

I guessed earlier that its either a pretzel or his glasses.

[strangegrey]

I...when I saw them open for Journey back in 1999 or so. Gramm was in the band back then, and just sounded lousy. The band looked old and tired.

Not a fair basis to judge this band.

When Atlantic Records did the 40th aniversary celebration at Madison Square Garden in 1989, Foreigner played (along with alot of SERIOUS heavyweights, among of them were IIRC, Clapton, Elton John, and a reformed Led Zep (with Jason on drums). Without hesitation on this....Foreigner kicked EVERYONE's ass at that show.

I never saw a band show up to a gig that was going to be closed by Led Zep, only to kick everyones ass with a level of confidence that was without comparison. It blew me away that they strutted out, given who was going to be on the same stage a few hours later.


When Foreigner toured in 99-2000 with Journey, Lou Gramm was in bad shape. He had fought a brain tumor, the tumor had made jello out of his tyroid and he gained a ton of weight...he looked and sounded awful. But this one time, I was willing to cut him some slack, as a brain tumor is most definitely extenuating circumstances.

But there was a time when Lou Gramm was a more energetic singer than 99% of the belters out there..

[NealIsGod]

I...when I saw them open for Journey back in 1999 or so. Gramm was in the band back then, and just sounded lousy. The band looked old and tired.

Not a fair basis to judge this band.

When Atlantic Records did the 40th aniversary celebration at Madison Square Garden in 1989, Foreigner played (along with alot of SERIOUS heavyweights, among of them were IIRC, Clapton, Elton John, and a reformed Led Zep (with Jason on drums). Without hesitation on this....Foreigner kicked EVERYONE's ass at that show.

I never saw a band show up to a gig that was going to be closed by Led Zep, only to kick everyones ass with a level of confidence that was without comparison. It blew me away that they strutted out, given who was going to be on the same stage a few hours later.


When Foreigner toured in 99-2000 with Journey, Lou Gramm was in bad shape. He had fought a brain tumor, the tumor had made jello out of his tyroid and he gained a ton of weight...he looked and sounded awful. But this one time, I was willing to cut him some slack, as a brain tumor is most definitely extenuating circumstances.

But there was a time when Lou Gramm was a more energetic singer than 99% of the belters out there..

Of course, a healthy Lou Gramm would be everybody's #1 choice to front Foreigner. Same thing with Perry and Journey. But when it's just not possible for whatever reason, be it health, acrimony, whatever, I just think it's ridiculous for a band that was huge at one time to just close up shop. Look at Styx - at least their fans can go see DDY and/or Styx and hear Styx songs. What's wrong with that? Journey fans only have Journey featuring fill-in-the-blank.