OT: NFL Network WARNING!!!!!

[conversationpc]

I am not a Patriots fan. Cowboy and/or Colts fan here...

That being said, whoever is not giving props to the Patriots is, pure and simply, an idiot. They are blowing out the teams they should blow out and kicking ass against the other teams as well. They deserve all the accolades they get, especially if they run the table in the playoffs.

[Slander]

[quote="conversationpc"]I am not a Patriots fan. Cowboy and/or Colts fan here...

That being said, whoever is not giving props to the Patriots is, pure and simply, an idiot. /quote]

Fine. Let's give the Patties Props. They are the supreme team in a crappy league. By the way, the Patriots haven't really played terrific football for about 6 weeks or so. They're best football was played early on when they came back against the Colts on the road. So there you go. Sorry to dis the beloved Patties. Damn PATRIOTS have won 3 Lombardi trophies and they still whine about respect. I guess you'll always have an inferiority complex to NY even though the Giants haven't won a title since 1990!

[conversationpc]

Fine. Let's give the Patties Props. They are the supreme team in a crappy league. By the way, the Patriots haven't really played terrific football for about 6 weeks or so. They're best football was played early on when they came back against the Colts on the road. So there you go. Sorry to dis the beloved Patties. Damn PATRIOTS have won 3 Lombardi trophies and they still whine about respect. I guess you'll always have an inferiority complex to NY even though the Giants haven't won a title since 1990!

Well, I find it rather hypocritical that people who hate the Patriots will throw up all kinds of arguments supporting the '72 Dolphins but the opponents they played didn't have a much better winning percentage than the Pats opponents this year. As far as the last six weeks go, they have still won, which is all the more amazing considering they are still undefeated.

[Enigma869]

Fuck even the Dolphins Ronnie Brown ran for almost 100 yards in the first half of game against your beloved Patties. Rediculous. Oh yeah did you see Joe Addai on that screen pass. Your beloved peppermint patties are old and slow on defense. I think the LT, Fred Taylor, or Joe Addai could show the world what a fraud that geriatric dee is.

Okay...I said it before and I'll say it again...You are a fucking MORON! If you're going to come in here and take me on...you better bring a bit more to the dance than "peppermint patties"! You obviously couldn't refute a single thing I said about the 85 Bears team, who you think nobody would have a chance against, because you simply don't know what you're talking about! Again, you keep talking about how watered down the NFL is in 2007, but you forget to mention that it was just as watered down in 1985 and 1972. There were 16 teams in the NFL back in 1985 who finished with a .500 record or below. That number will be the same this season, and there are more teams today, jackass! In 1972, there were 15 teams who finished .500 or below, and there were only 26 teams in the entire fucking league, so don't tell me about watered down! You remind me of all the old fuck Dolphins who talk about how much better things were back in their day, when the facts simply don't support the belief! Come back when you learn how to put a sentence together and can spell basic words! Oh...and one more thing...the 2001 Patriots also won the Super Bowl with a backup QB...His name was Tom Brady!


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

Well, I find it rather hypocritical that people who hate the Patriots will throw up all kinds of arguments supporting the '72 Dolphins but the opponents they played didn't have a much better winning percentage than the Pats opponents this year.

Not only didn't the 72 Dolphins' opponents not have a "much better" winning percentage, it was far worse! The 72 Dolphins opponent's winning percentage was a whopping 35%. There were 6 teams in the NFL in 1972 who had more than 10 wins. Miami didn't play a single one of them! There are presently 7 NFL teams (excluding the Patriots) who have 10 wins, and Cleveland with 9 (who the Patriots manhandled). Out of those 7 teams, the Patriots played four of them and didn't have much difficulty with any of the four. If they beat the Giants on Saturday, and Cleveland wins, they will have played and beaten 6 teams, with over 10 wins this season, which is 6 more than Miami even faced during their undefeated season!

Hating a team is fun, but if you're going to masquerade as a sports fan, at least have half a fucking brain! Saying you hate the Patriots is more than okay. Saying they suck and would have no chance against any team in NFL history makes you look like you don't have two brain cells connected. They're about to set every offensive NFL record in history, so I'm quite sure they would give ANY team from ANY era a run for their money! I've always hated the Cowboys, but you never would have caught me saying they sucked, when they were winning, because I'm not blind or stupid!


John from Boston

[Liam]

The Pats suck.

Sorry just trying to lighten the mood.

So how many people are going to watch the Pats/Giants game and how many for the Alamo Bowl??

[Slander]

Well, I find it rather hypocritical that people who hate the Patriots will throw up all kinds of arguments supporting the '72 Dolphins but the opponents they played didn't have a much better winning percentage than the Pats opponents this year.

Not only didn't the 72 Dolphins' opponents not have a "much better" winning percentage, it was far worse! The 72 Dolphins opponent's winning percentage was a whopping 35%. There were 6 teams in the NFL in 1972 who had more than 10 wins. Miami didn't play a single one of them! There are presently 7 NFL teams (excluding the Patriots) who have 10 wins, and Cleveland with 9 (who the Patriots manhandled). Out of those 7 teams, the Patriots played four of them and didn't have much difficulty with any of the four. If they beat the Giants on Saturday, and Cleveland wins, they will have played and beaten 6 teams, with over 10 wins this season, which is 6 more than Miami even faced during their undefeated season!

Hating a team is fun, but if you're going to masquerade as a sports fan, at least have half a fucking brain! Saying you hate the Patriots is more than okay. Saying they suck and would have no chance against any team in NFL history makes you look like you don't have two brain cells connected. They're about to set every offensive NFL record in history, so I'm quite sure they would give ANY team from ANY era a run for their money! I've always hated the Cowboys, but you never would have caught me saying they sucked, when they were winning, because I'm not blind or stupid!


John from Boston

John I realize your live for the Pats. We all get that. No I don't hate the Pats. Hell I'm an AFC guy. The NFL IS SHITE! It's that simple. It's been watered down by an expansion. More than ever the league is full of weak teams. I can not rank the Patties up there with the best of all time because the league is the worst of all time. As for the 72 dolphins? Guy they went back to back and won in 73. So much for a fluke. They also went in 71 but lost to the cowboys. They went three years running taking two of three. In 72 they won with a back up quarterback. What would happen if Brady went down? Do you really think the Patriots stand a chance. The old Dolphins were a true team. John I would think after winning 3 Lombardi trophies you Patriots fans would get over your inferiority complex.

[Slander]

lhey're about to set every offensive NFL record in history, so I'm quite sure they would give ANY team from ANY era a run for their money!
John from Boston

Oh yeah John. Nice running game. Lawrence who? Give me John Stephens or Tony Collins anyday over that joke you have back there right now. When I last checked you guys aren't even going go come close to that. Yeah the 72 dolphins set the record with nearly 5 yards a pop and almost 3k. No I don't hate the Patriots but to put them in the same breath of the great teams as the 89 49ers, 72 dolphins, 85 bears, and steeler teams of the 70's is sillly. All of those teams were balanced and had stellar defenses. Hell the 85 Bears would put Brady boy on his ass over and over again. Oh and I'm sure Tommy boy would go over and whine to the official as he always does the first time Singeltary knocked him down.

[Slander]

...and one more thing...the 2001 Patriots also won the Super Bowl with a backup QB...His name was Tom Brady!
John from Boston

No shit Sherlock. It was his second year in the league if I recall correctly. Did they go unbeaten that year? No. The Dolphins did with their backup a fact you just can't seem to acknowledge. Once again where would the Pats be with Martinez or Cassel? LOL. What a fucking joke.

[Slander]

Fine. Let's give the Patties Props. They are the supreme team in a crappy league. By the way, the Patriots haven't really played terrific football for about 6 weeks or so. They're best football was played early on when they came back against the Colts on the road. So there you go. Sorry to dis the beloved Patties. Damn PATRIOTS have won 3 Lombardi trophies and they still whine about respect. I guess you'll always have an inferiority complex to NY even though the Giants haven't won a title since 1990!

Well, I find it rather hypocritical that people who hate the Patriots will throw up all kinds of arguments supporting the '72 Dolphins but the opponents they played didn't have a much better winning percentage than the Pats opponents this year. As far as the last six weeks go, they have still won, which is all the more amazing considering they are still undefeated.

Who is being hypocritical? I said the Patriots are the supreme team in a crappy league. The 72 Dolphins also went undefeated with their BACKUP quarterback. For some reason that is lost on everyone. Take Tommy boy out and see how far BELL-A-CHEAT gets.

[Rick]

The Pats suck.

Sorry just trying to lighten the mood.

So how many people are going to watch the Pats/Giants game and how many for the Alamo Bowl??

I'm not watching the Pats/Giants game, as there is nobody to root for.

[Enigma869]

John I realize your live for the Pats. We all get that. No I don't hate the Pats. Hell I'm an AFC guy. The NFL IS SHITE! It's that simple. It's been watered down by an expansion. More than ever the league is full of weak teams. I can not rank the Patties up there with the best of all time because the league is the worst of all time. As for the 72 dolphins? Guy they went back to back and won in 73. So much for a fluke. They also went in 71 but lost to the cowboys. They went three years running taking two of three. In 72 they won with a back up quarterback. What would happen if Brady went down? Do you really think the Patriots stand a chance. The old Dolphins were a true team. John I would think after winning 3 Lombardi trophies you Patriots fans would get over your inferiority complex.

Listen you suck ass excuse for a sports fan...I never once said the Dolphins winning Super Bowls, back when the world was still flat was a "fluke". You pounding your chest, telling me that the Dolphins went "back to back" means nothing. Many teams have won back to back Super Bowls. Just off the top of my head...San Francisco, Dallas, Denver, Pittsburgh, and NEW ENGLAND, so let's not act like Miami somehow re-invented the wheel!

The fact that you keep babbling on about how the league is shit (or as you put it SHITE), is mindless. I already gave you the numbers, and there are no fewer successful teams in the NFL today than there was in 1985 or 1972. You seem to think the league is "watered down" because of expansion. While it very well may be "watered down", due to expansion...you're going to have to tell me what the excuse was 20 and 30 years ago, when there were far fewer teams, and the same amount of really good and really bad teams! The thing you can't seem to get through your thick skull is that the NFL in 1972 that your beloved Dolphins went undefeated in had the exact same number of teams with a record of .500 or less, and there were far fewer teams! Those are the facts. Feel free to look up the facts, so you can stop hallucinating! Melodicrock has some GREAT sports fans, and I love going back and forth with anyone who has a compelling argument! You simply don't belong in that group! Someone has to send you back to the minors for more "seasoning", because you simply haven't made one single lucid point!


John from Boston

[mikemarrs]

the '85 bears beat the cowboys that season 44-0.that was a hell of a team at that time.shit they had walter payton,mike singletary,the fridge,etc. they were pretty balanced team overall.ironic the only team they lost to that year was miami dolphins.i have that super bowl where the bears beat the pats 46-10 on videotape commercials and all.i do however think the patriots team this year is among the best ever.the patriots are a dynasty in this decade.as long as they keep knocking the colts and peyton manning out of the race i'll be happy........

[Enigma869]

Oh yeah John. Nice running game. Lawrence who? Give me John Stephens or Tony Collins anyday over that joke you have back there right now. When I last checked you guys aren't even going go come close to that. Yeah the 72 dolphins set the record with nearly 5 yards a pop and almost 3k. No I don't hate the Patriots but to put them in the same breath of the great teams as the 89 49ers, 72 dolphins, 85 bears, and steeler teams of the 70's is sillly. All of those teams were balanced and had stellar defenses. Hell the 85 Bears would put Brady boy on his ass over and over again. Oh and I'm sure Tommy boy would go over and whine to the official as he always does the first time Singeltary knocked him down.

All of those teams were "balanced"????? In what world??? Aside from the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, the 1985 Chicago Bears were the worst offensive team to ever win a Super Bowl! I gave you their putrid offensive numbers earlier, and if you seriously believe that is "balanced", you're even more of a dope than I thought you were! As far as the 89 49'ers team...they were a passing team, ALL the way! Roger Craig averaged less than 4 yards per carry (Maroney's averaging 4.8 yards per carry), and finished with 5 TD's for the entire season. Jerry Rice had 17 touchdowns, and John Taylor had 10, so again...stuff the "balanced" shit up your ass! The more you babble, the more convinced I am that you've never even watched an NFL game, in your life!


John from Boston

[Greg]

I have to say, I'm not sure where this sense of the NFL being "watered down" came from. I mean, yes, we have a few new teams. However, teams back in the 80's and before could keep a lot more players on their teams than what they can today. So even though there are theoretically more opportunities for NFL hopefuls to play, it's still highly competitive and competition breeds success. With that said, you're still putting the best product out there. Now, personally, even though the salary cap and today's version of free agency is good for all NFL teams, I kind of wish we could go back to the days where the teams who can afford it kept the players they wanted, practically for their entire career.

[Slander]

Oh yeah John. Nice running game. Lawrence who? Give me John Stephens or Tony Collins anyday over that joke you have back there right now. When I last checked you guys aren't even going go come close to that. Yeah the 72 dolphins set the record with nearly 5 yards a pop and almost 3k. No I don't hate the Patriots but to put them in the same breath of the great teams as the 89 49ers, 72 dolphins, 85 bears, and steeler teams of the 70's is sillly. All of those teams were balanced and had stellar defenses. Hell the 85 Bears would put Brady boy on his ass over and over again. Oh and I'm sure Tommy boy would go over and whine to the official as he always does the first time Singeltary knocked him down.

All of those teams were "balanced"????? In what world??? Aside from the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, the 1985 Chicago Bears were the worst offensive team to ever win a Super Bowl! I gave you their putrid offensive numbers earlier, and if you seriously believe that is "balanced", you're even more of a dope than I thought you were! As far as the 89 49'ers team...they were a passing team, ALL the way! Roger Craig averaged less than 4 yards per carry (Maroney's averaging 4.8 yards per carry), and finished with 5 TD's for the entire season. Jerry Rice had 17 touchdowns, and John Taylor had 10, so again...stuff the "balanced" shit up your ass! The more you babble, the more convinced I am that you've never even watched an NFL game, in your life!


John from Boston

John from Boston I don't think you have ever watched a football game in your life. In fact you don't know your history. It's rediculous. It's too bad your beloved Patties couldn't play by the same rules as those great teams of the 70's. Randy "take a play off" Moss would never get off the line of scrimmage. And Tommy Boy would have to take that damn skirt off. Once again ass clown where would your beloved Patriots be without Tom Brady. What 8-8? The 72 Dolphins went unbeaten without THEIR HALL OF FAME QB. As far as the 49ers give me a break. Do you even know what the West Coast Offense is? How about Craig becoming the first back to gain 1k on the ground and catch for 1k in a season. As far as the Bears? Walter Payton? He's better than Lawerence Rice-A-Roni. Damn you can bitch all you want but these Patriots don't compare to the greats. I wish you had played against the old Steelers. I'd love to see Moss clotheslined by Mel Blount. Tommy Boy would be taking out on a stretcher. The rules changed to favor the offense now. Sorry do some history and then pop off. Man for man your beloved BELL-A-CHEATS are inferior to the hall of fame greats of the dolphins, steelers, 49ers, or Bears.

[Rockindeano]

You're both wrong on some points and you're both right on some points but, hey, 16-0 is 16-0. Can't fault New England for winning.

I would definitely put them in there with the 49er and Steeler teams and a smidge under the Chicago team and the 72 Miami club. However, if they DO win it all this year, and go undefeated doing it, they IMO, deserve the credit. I am just one guy, the ONLY guy on here who thinks Jax will beat them in the playoffs.

[Slander]

I am just one guy, the ONLY guy on here who thinks Jax will beat them in the playoffs.

I agree Rockin'. Jacksonville is the type of team that could give them problems. Physical with a running attack. The Jags I believe are the biggest team in the NFL. I think Jones-Drew and Taylor would be able to run wild. Having said that I'm not sure they could score enough points. I do think they would give the Pats a hell of a game. By the way it's about time somone give the Colts some credit. Damn 13-2! They had those unstoppable pats down by 10 in the fourth. In fact I thought the Patriots defense looked old and slow in that game. Harrison is back! Would the Patriots be unbeaten without that ass clown Randy Moss? I doubt it.

[Rockindeano]

Moss is a dirty motherfucker and a slime piece of cum human being, BUT, Hell, throw it up there and he will get it. You are correct, he does take plays off.

[Enigma869]

John from Boston I don't think you have ever watched a football game in your life. In fact you don't know your history. It's rediculous. It's too bad your beloved Patties couldn't play by the same rules as those great teams of the 70's. Randy "take a play off" Moss would never get off the line of scrimmage. And Tommy Boy would have to take that damn skirt off. Once again ass clown where would your beloved Patriots be without Tom Brady. What 8-8? The 72 Dolphins went unbeaten without THEIR HALL OF FAME QB. As far as the 49ers give me a break. Do you even know what the West Coast Offense is? How about Craig becoming the first back to gain 1k on the ground and catch for 1k in a season. As far as the Bears? Walter Payton? He's better than Lawerence Rice-A-Roni. Damn you can bitch all you want but these Patriots don't compare to the greats. I wish you had played against the old Steelers. I'd love to see Moss clotheslined by Mel Blount. Tommy Boy would be taking out on a stretcher. The rules changed to favor the offense now. Sorry do some history and then pop off. Man for man your beloved BELL-A-CHEATS are inferior to the hall of fame greats of the dolphins, steelers, 49ers, or Bears.

Listen asswad...Just because you say the Patriots don't compare to "the greats" doesn't make it a fact. It's simply one clueless assmunch's opinion! At the end of the day, it really doesn't make a bit of difference what you or anyone else thinks. Their record speaks for itself! If they win tomorrow night, it will be the 19th straight regular season game they've won. Guess whose record they'll break? THEIR OWN! They've won 18 straight regular season games, twice before this current streak. When the top three winning streaks in the NFL are all by the same team, that tells me that it's not much of a fluke! As for Randy Moss "taking a play off", we finally agree on one thing. That said, there aren't many receivers in the history of the NFL who don't take their share of plays off. The nature of the position (i.e. running down the field on every play) lends itself to being the position where guys drag their ass the most!

As for your comparison of Walter Payton and Lawrence Maroney...This once again proves what a complete moron you are! I never once compared Lawrence Maroney to Walter Payton. I watched Walter Payton's entire career, and would NEVER suggest for one second that Maroney is a quarter of the back Payton was! That doesn't mean the 1985 Bears' offense was even remotely close to the 2007 Patriots, because they weren't even close!

The final point I'll make is this...Don't tell me I don't watch football! I watch more football in a season than you've watched in your life! As for you telling me to "do some history and then pop off" (Incidentally, did you even get out of the 7th grade?), I'm pretty sure I schooled you on EVERY facet of these past teams that you're telling me would all destroy the Patriots. At the end of the day, it's beyond irrelevant what you or anyone else thinks about the 2007 Patriots. Their record at the end of the season will determine where they're ranked, among the great teams of all time. I know one thing...if they go undefeated and win the Super Bowl, it won't matter what any dope like you ever says. They will be THE ONLY TEAM who can ever lay claim to 19-0!


John from Boston

[Rockindeano]

It is true the league is watered down, however, the Pats are INDEED playing a first place schedule. They did beat Dallas, Indianapolis, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Washington and Cleveland. Most of those teams are playoff bound, while two (WAS and CLE) might get in. That's pretty impressive. It's not their fault their division is weak.

[Slander]

It's not their fault their division is weak.

It's funny. Patriot fans are so sensitive considering 3 lombardi trophies! I guess it's a Boston thing. The bottom line is the Patriots are maybe the best team and what is a shitty league. You are correct Deano that they beat the likes of the browns, chargers, steelers. Wow do those teams really strike anyone as Super Bowl threats? We'll see what happens. The patties may go 19 and oh. That is impressive but it doesn't put them in the same breath as the legends of the NFL.

[Slander]

I watch more football in a season than you've watched in your life! As for you telling me to "do some history and then pop off" (Incidentally, did you even get out of the 7th grade?), I'm pretty sure I schooled you on EVERY facet of these past teams that you're telling me would all destroy the Patriots.
John from Boston

John first I would say if you are watching that much football get out of the house and get a life. Secondly you don't know shite about the history of the game. You have proven that time and time again with your inane comments. Do you even know what the game was like in the 70's? The Patriots offense wouldn't work ass clown. It was a different era. I wish you luck in your quest for 19 and oh. I fear what you will do to yourself is this goal is not attained. I will tip my hat to the patties. I will say this about Bill Bell-OH-Cheat he lacks the class of a Landry, Walsh, Shula, and Noll. He doesn't deserve to loft the trophy above his head. It's a damn shame.

[Enigma869]

John first I would say if you are watching that much football get out of the house and get a life. Secondly you don't know shite about the history of the game. You have proven that time and time again with your inane comments. Do you even know what the game was like in the 70's? The Patriots offense wouldn't work ass clown. It was a different era. I wish you luck in your quest for 19 and oh. I fear what you will do to yourself is this goal is not attained. I will tip my hat to the patties. I will say this about Bill Bell-OH-Cheat he lacks the class of a Landry, Walsh, Shula, and Noll. He doesn't deserve to loft the trophy above his head. It's a damn shame.

I'm not sure why I'm even answering your question, but YES, I watched plenty of football back in the 1970's. As someone else said here, contrary to what you think, the league is no better or worse than it's been in every decade. The only thing that has changed from 30 years ago is the fact today's players are bigger, stronger, and faster. As for what offense would work or wouldn't work...once again, you prove you're an idiot! A good team from 1960 would still be a good team in 2007. I can assure you that Dick Butkus could probably strap on a helmet and compete tomorrow in a game. If you seriously believe Brady would have sucked in the NFL from 30 years ago, you're blind and stupid!

As for your class comment about Belichick, I honestly have nothing bad to say about any of the coaches you mentioned. I happen to be a fan of three of them. Schula has turned into a jackass in his old age, so I have no use for the guy, but, he was still a very good coach. I won't call him a great coach, because I don't think he was. The reality is that his last TWENTY TWO seasons in the NFL, the guy won NOTHING! Not to mention, he managed to win nothing with some pretty solid Miami teams and Dan Marino as his quarterback!


John from Boston

[Slander]

John first I would say if you are watching that much football get out of the house and get a life. Secondly you don't know shite about the history of the game. You have proven that time and time again with your inane comments. Do you even know what the game was like in the 70's? The Patriots offense wouldn't work ass clown. It was a different era. I wish you luck in your quest for 19 and oh. I fear what you will do to yourself is this goal is not attained. I will tip my hat to the patties. I will say this about Bill Bell-OH-Cheat he lacks the class of a Landry, Walsh, Shula, and Noll. He doesn't deserve to loft the trophy above his head. It's a damn shame.

I'm not sure why I'm even answering your question, but YES, I watched plenty of football back in the 1970's. As someone else said here, contrary to what you think, the league is no better or worse than it's been in every decade. The only thing that has changed from 30 years ago is the fact today's players are bigger, stronger, and faster.


John from Boston

Nothing has changed since the 70's? Yes the players are bigger and faster but you prove just how naive you are but not mentioning critical rules changes THAT WOULD NOT favor the Patriots. I'm sorry Brady would not be playing in a skirt if this were 1977 and Randy Moss would never get off the line of scrimmage. Hell Welker would be pancaked everytime down the field. By the way NO ONE said Brady sucked. No quarterback has better foot work in the league but this is a different time and the rules favor guys like he and Manning. What did all the great qb's of the 70's have in common? Think? They could throw and they were mobile. Brady and Manning are neither. Don't give me this nothing has changed since the 70's garbage. The rules have changed to favor the offense. Wake Up John. I respect the Patriots but I do not respect Bell-OH-Cheat. By the way neither do the coachs that I know who know him respect him!!!!

[Enigma869]

They could throw and they were mobile. Brady and Manning are neither. Don't give me this nothing has changed since the 70's garbage. The rules have changed to favor the offense. Wake Up John. I respect the Patriots but I do not respect Bell-OH-Cheat. By the way neither do the coachs that I know who know him respect him!!!!

Slander...

Are you serious? You seriously don't believe Manning or Brady can "throw"???? Listen...I'm not going to say the rules haven't changed in the NFL. They certainly have, and most of the rule changes always favor the offense. That said, you've never been able to maul a receiver before the ball gets to him in the NFL. While you could rough up quarterbacks MUCH more 30 years ago, without getting a penalty, you obviously don't watch Patriots games if you think that's an issue. Most of the time the opposing defense never gets near Brady to hit him, because he gets rid of the ball as quick as Marino ever did! Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have as good of throwing arms as ANY QB in the history of the NFL. The only guy even remotely close to Manning and Brady in today's NFL is Tony Romo, and even he has a long way to go. I'll never put Brett Favre in the same category because he makes FAR too many mistakes. According to your last post, you're friends with some NFL coaches, so if you don't believe me, or your lying eyes, go and ask them if Brady and Manning can't throw the ball! It's really an absurd statement. I've personally seen Brady throw an NFL football 70 yards, IN THE AIR, so if that's not throwing, I don't know what is!

I think the other thing that you're simply forgetting, or choose not to acknowledge is the fact that this isn't the Patriots first rodeo. You make it sound like they've never had any success and that everything they're doing is just dumb luck. As I said before, they own the top three winning streaks in NFL history, all to themselves! Also, I think you're giving Randy Moss FAR TOO MUCH credit! You make it sound like Moss is THE REASON the Patriots are even a factor! I'm pretty sure the Patriots have won THREE Super Bowls without Randy Moss anywhere near the team, so I can assure you that Randy Moss isn't the reason for the Patriots' success. Sure, he's played a HUGE role this season, but again, they've won it all three times without the guy! Not only did they win without Moss, but Brady won three Super Bowls throwing to guys named David Givens, David Patten, Troy Brown, Bethel Johnson, and Deion Branch! I think you'd be hardpressed to find another QB in NFL history, who won championships with less talent than Brady, and I didn't even mention Antowain Smith!

As for the sensitivity of Patriots' fans...I can only speak for myself. This is all just good-natured fun for me. While I'm genuinely passionate about football and my hometown teams, it's really nothing personal. I can honestly tell you that I LOVE the fact that everyone despises the Patriots now. It wasn't nearly as much fun for me back in 2001 when the Patriots were a 14 point underdog in the Super Bowl, and everyone was pulling for them, because everyone always loves the underdog. This is MUCH more enjoyable, because EVERYONE hates seeing the same team win all the time (unless it's your team). If the Patriots ultimately don't win it all, it certainly won't be the end of the world. Contrary to what you said earlier, I have a very fulfilling life, a successful business, and a superb family! Football is merely my escape, one day a week, during the long, cold winter! As I've said in other posts, when I was a kid, growing up in the Boston area, the Patriots were soooooooo bad and beyond embarrassing. Nobody ever hated the Patriots, because they simply didn't matter. They spent most seasons winning one or two games, and nobody cared. As a column on espn.com said recently "You haven't arrived until everyone hates you". Well, I'll take arriving over being the Arizona Cardinals, ANY DAY!

John from Boston

[Slander]

They could throw and they were mobile. Brady and Manning are neither. Don't give me this nothing has changed since the 70's garbage. The rules have changed to favor the offense. Wake Up John. I respect the Patriots but I do not respect Bell-OH-Cheat. By the way neither do the coachs that I know who know him respect him!!!!

Slander...

Are you serious? You seriously don't believe Manning or Brady can "throw"???? Listen...I'm not going to say the rules haven't changed in the NFL. They certainly have, and most of the rule changes always favor the offense. That said, you've never been able to maul a receiver before the ball gets to him in the NFL. While you could rough up quarterbacks MUCH more 30 years ago, without getting a penalty, you obviously don't watch Patriots games if you think that's an issue. Most of the time the opposing defense never gets near Brady to hit him, because he gets rid of the ball as quick as Marino ever did!

John from Boston

John,

A couple of things. 1)Congrats on the big win Saturday night against the mediocre Giants. 2) Tom Brady and Payton Manning are great quarterbacks FOR THIS ERA. I never said anything different. They are great players. Now having said that the rules have changed significantly. Illegal contact has changed the game dramatically. You can't touch a receiver after 5 yards! I've always hated that rules. The rule saved the Patriots ass after Brady got sacked for a huge loss the other night. As far as Brady and Marino. Brady has the best pocket awareness and footwork of any quarterback I have ever seen but in no way does he have a quicker release the Dan Marino. He had the quickest gun of all time. A lot of credit has to be given to the Patriots offensive line. The bottom line is my arguement isn't with the Patriots it is with the fact that the league isn't as good as it used to be. If you believe otherwise you are kidding yourself. Look at all the kickoff and punt returns this year! Special teams blow. I do give the Pats kudos. Listen Hawaii is unbeaten but they will not be playing for the National Championship. Why? Inferior competition. The Patriots may go unbeaten but I will never give them props as one of the greatest teams of all-time. Why? Inferior competition.

[Enigma869]

[John,

A couple of things. 1)Congrats on the big win Saturday night against the mediocre Giants. 2) Tom Brady and Payton Manning are great quarterbacks FOR THIS ERA. I never said anything different. They are great players. Now having said that the rules have changed significantly. Illegal contact has changed the game dramatically. You can't touch a receiver after 5 yards! I've always hated that rules. The rule saved the Patriots ass after Brady got sacked for a huge loss the other night. As far as Brady and Marino. Brady has the best pocket awareness and footwork of any quarterback I have ever seen but in no way does he have a quicker release the Dan Marino. He had the quickest gun of all time. A lot of credit has to be given to the Patriots offensive line. The bottom line is my arguement isn't with the Patriots it is with the fact that the league isn't as good as it used to be. If you believe otherwise you are kidding yourself. Look at all the kickoff and punt returns this year! Special teams blow. I do give the Pats kudos. Listen Hawaii is unbeaten but they will not be playing for the National Championship. Why? Inferior competition. The Patriots may go unbeaten but I will never give them props as one of the greatest teams of all-time. Why? Inferior competition.

I guess we can just agree to disagree Slander. I think your argument of "inferior competition" is LUDICROUS. The fact that you actually used the Hawaii team as an analogy tells me that you just don't get it! Hawaii played NOBODY. The Patriots out of division games were all against pretty good teams, so that analogy simply doesn't work! The fact that you can't hit a receiver after 5 yards doesn't mean that every team going forward sucks! The rule changes they made to favor the offensive game are the same for every team, so the fact that you somehow think the Patriots have some sort of advantage that nobody else has is absurd! You also keep ignoring the fact that the Patriots played SIX teams with more than 10 wins this season, and beat all six. You also seem to VERY conveniently not acknowledge the fact that the 1972 Dolphins didn't play one single team with more than 10 wins, and their opponents winning percentage was an embarrassing .356%! Luckily for me, some misguided Dolphin fan isn't needed to validate the great season the Patriots have had, thusfar! Regardless of how much you think the league sucks, isn't going to alter their record (or any other team, for that matter) one iota! For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the 72 Dolphins would have beat the Steelers of the 70's, the Niners of the 80's, the Cowboys of the 90's, or the Patriots of this decade! In fact, I don't even think it would be close! You think that team is far greater than most NFL experts ever believed it was, in spite of their "perfect season", where they played NOBODY!


John from Boston

p.s. Good luck with that number one draft pick

[Rick]

p.s. Good luck with that number one draft pick

Illegal shot in the gut! Fifteen yards!

[Slander]

[John,

A couple of things. 1)Congrats on the big win Saturday night against the mediocre Giants. 2) Tom Brady and Payton Manning are great quarterbacks FOR THIS ERA. I never said anything different. They are great players. Now having said that the rules have changed significantly. Illegal contact has changed the game dramatically. You can't touch a receiver after 5 yards! I've always hated that rules. The rule saved the Patriots ass after Brady got sacked for a huge loss the other night. As far as Brady and Marino. Brady has the best pocket awareness and footwork of any quarterback I have ever seen but in no way does he have a quicker release the Dan Marino. He had the quickest gun of all time. A lot of credit has to be given to the Patriots offensive line. The bottom line is my arguement isn't with the Patriots it is with the fact that the league isn't as good as it used to be. If you believe otherwise you are kidding yourself. Look at all the kickoff and punt returns this year! Special teams blow. I do give the Pats kudos. Listen Hawaii is unbeaten but they will not be playing for the National Championship. Why? Inferior competition. The Patriots may go unbeaten but I will never give them props as one of the greatest teams of all-time. Why? Inferior competition.

I guess we can just agree to disagree Slander. I think your argument of "inferior competition" is LUDICROUS. The fact that you actually used the Hawaii team as an analogy tells me that you just don't get it! Hawaii played NOBODY. The Patriots out of division games were all against pretty good teams, so that analogy simply doesn't work! The fact that you can't hit a receiver after 5 yards doesn't mean that every team going forward sucks! The rule changes they made to favor the offensive game are the same for every team, so the fact that you somehow think the Patriots have some sort of advantage that nobody else has is absurd! You also keep ignoring the fact that the Patriots played SIX teams with more than 10 wins this season, and beat all six. You also seem to VERY conveniently not acknowledge the fact that the 1972 Dolphins didn't play one single team with more than 10 wins, and their opponents winning percentage was an embarrassing .356%! Luckily for me, some misguided Dolphin fan isn't needed to validate the great season the Patriots have had, thusfar! Regardless of how much you think the league sucks, isn't going to alter their record (or any other team, for that matter) one iota! For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the 72 Dolphins would have beat the Steelers of the 70's, the Niners of the 80's, the Cowboys of the 90's, or the Patriots of this decade! In fact, I don't even think it would be close! You think that team is far greater than most NFL experts ever believed it was, in spite of their "perfect season", where they played NOBODY!


John from Boston

p.s. Good luck with that number one draft pick

Actually I think the 72 dolphins achievement is pretty amazing considering they played with a backup quarterback! I know you conveniently want to dismiss that. Let's also keep in mind they beat the Steelers on the road in Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship game. They would have also pitched the only shutout in super bowl history if it weren't for their damn kicker! LOL.