Stage Presence DOES matter!

[The Sushi Hunter]

I've done a tremendous amount of watching and listening to countless bands and singers when I lived in Japan and the Philippines and when I visited the dozen or so countries in that geographical local. There was absolutely NO male vocalists who I liked over there both in the singing and stage performance category. It was just a huge turn off for me to witness the way that the guys express themselves in music over there. I didn't bat an eye with Boowy, Loudness and the like. Prime examples of something that went so wrong with music in Japan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNyrh12u7Kc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hev3TsNdjpw

However, the exception to this fact is Arnel who is an awesome singer with a stage performance to match. But make no mistake, I'm the type of person who will be the first to speek the truth and if the truth is that there is something that doesn't sound or look right with what Arnel's doing, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be one of the first to say something about it if asked.

[Panther]

Donna,

Concert venue is much different from a club venue in Arnel's country. The attached video is BAMBOO he has a strong followers. notice that in the club, people are all sitted down all the way to the front. The audience just stare at the performer with hardly any engaging participation. the performer (BAMBOO) sort of like wandering around the stage at times--just like you see Arnel in youtube videos. This is typical of the PHilippine club scenes. And this type of set-sup is found in every corner. So people are used to listening to bands during dinner or during drinking hours.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cnXRHhZoFqA&feature=related




NOW WATCH HIM TURN THE FAN ON WHEN NOT IN THAT ENVIRONMENT:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YBnhfg1i-Ig

That band is quite good. Really enjoyed the first clip. Enjoyed the hell out of the second one until he spun off into that rapidfirefla attack thing. ha!

Still would like to see something Arnel specific that is original, in a bit larger setting wherein he's feeding off the crowd and they..him.

[Deb]

p.s. EM is kinda cute, huh? I bet Deb & Cyndy would agree...

Daaaaamn........now that was cool to see after a night of New Years Eve-ing! Totally forgot what the question is , just bless ya for posting those clips.

Donna, pm me, I have that dvd.

[AR]

Donna, I have to disagree with you here and disagree completely. I know a lot of you Annexians will no doubt hate my fat ass, but here goes.

If I were betting Arnel falls flat here due to lack of stage presence, I wouldn't like my chances. I need to explain myself, yes.

Look, he has a tremendous voice. It's obvious he has the best voice Journey could have chosen. The videos on Youtube were him in a lounge setting, or a coffee house. There is really no reason for him to be going Mick Jagger or Bruce Springsteen in front of 5 people on a stage that is 9 feet long.

Donna, I have over a dozen Journey videos of Perry in Japan, and they are doing DSB, and the crowd is entirely sitting down, politely. I have BA and other bands, performing songs and it is true, the Japanese audiences are very passive. You have three levels of crowds, starting with the lower spectrum:

Japan- Polite, reserved, quiet. Why do you think Journey always went there first to start a tour? They auditioned stuff and worked out there problems in Japan first.

American/Canadian- Middle of the road. Sometimes lame, sometimes energetic.

European- Top of the Hill. Always pumped up, bobbing, bouncing and swaying. Incredible.


Again, not to piss any of my Annexian friends off, but I really believe Arnel will surprise here in the States. Please don't hate me Ed, or Strangegrey, but he will adjust. Hell, he will probably feel free when he gets on a real stage. I know Jeff felt great knowing he had a real stage to perform on.

This does not say I am forgiving Journey people. I just have absolutely no reason to hate AP.

Ok, let me have it.

No hate for your opinion Dean. You're a good friend.

I do disagree though. Watch those youtube clips and listen to Arnel address the audience before songs and tell me who is going to speak to the crowd during Journey shows? It's bad broken English. No charisma and he won't be able to relate to an audience.

Every time I go to a show - Shaw Blades, Frehley, TSO, Van Halen, etc. - I bring the subject of Journey and the current situation up to people. The opinions range from negative to hysterical laughter. I have a pulse for this thing already and this is going to be a train wreck.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's going to tank - especially in the states, and I'm going to laugh at anyone willing to give it a chance.

Since regrouping, Journey has endured in the face of lead vocals being turned so far down in the mix as to be inaudible. The band also persevered during the dark days of 2005, when Steve Augeri’s job was reduced to little more than a stationary golem dishing out niceties in-between cued-up tapes
("Is Ontario ready to rock?" "Are we having a party or what!" )
And still, the sizeable audiences left concerts none the wiser.

If none of the aforementioned tragedies (and that’s what they are) spelt the death knell, why would a little something like ethnicity or lack of stage presence, be the monkey wrench that finally gums up the works?
Nope, I’m sorry. I just can't believe that.

Might as well face it, the Journey machine is invincible.

[AR]

It's going to tank - especially in the states, and I'm going to laugh at anyone willing to give it a chance.

Since regrouping, Journey has endured in the face of lead vocals being turned so far down in the mix as to be inaudible. The band also persevered during the dark days of 2005, when Steve Augeri’s job was reduced to little more than a stationary golem dishing out niceties in-between cued-up tapes
("Is Ontario ready to rock?" "Are we having a party or what!" )
And still, the sizeable audiences left concerts none the wiser.

If none of the aforementioned tragedies (and that’s what they are) spelt the death knell, why would a little something like ethnicity or lack of stage presence, be the monkey wrench that finally gums up the works?
Nope, I’m sorry. I just can't believe that.

Might as well face it, the Journey machine is invincible.

I get your point. My feeling is they went too far this time though.

[AR]

Double post - sorry.

[wildone]

It's going to tank - especially in the states, and I'm going to laugh at anyone willing to give it a chance.

Since regrouping, Journey has endured in the face of lead vocals being turned so far down in the mix as to be inaudible. The band also persevered during the dark days of 2005, when Steve Augeri’s job was reduced to little more than a stationary golem dishing out niceties in-between cued-up tapes
("Is Ontario ready to rock?" "Are we having a party or what!" )
And still, the sizeable audiences left concerts none the wiser.

If none of the aforementioned tragedies (and that’s what they are) spelt the death knell, why would a little something like ethnicity or lack of stage presence, be the monkey wrench that finally gums up the works?
Nope, I’m sorry. I just can't believe that.

Might as well face it, the Journey machine is invincible.

Nothing really is invincible...sometimes people will just say fuck you and walk away...but what I don't think they(journey) get is when they do hit the states ,Arnel goes on and the casual fan looks around saying what the fuck??They didn't with steve A because IMO people thought he looked like Perry ,sang like him ,so it must be him didn't give it another thought.Now that it's changed again ...well they might just notice this guy...that's all I'm saying.Well never all Then it will be fair Grounds and Lumpia Festivals!

[donnaplease]

IMO the only way they can come out of this with any semblance of credibility is to blast his face all over the advertisements for their shows. And I know this has been discussed before, but by using HIS music on the radio clips, etc. Not the voice of SP. Then the ticket buyers will have an honest understanding of what they are purchasing. Some may like it, others perhaps not. It remains to be seen. I'm torn between wanting them to fall flat on their collective faces and feeling bad for thinking so, because I know that some innocent people will be hurt by it.

[wildone]

IMO the only way they can come out of this with any semblance of credibility is to blast his face all over the advertisements for their shows. And I know this has been discussed before, but by using HIS music on the radio clips, etc. Not the voice of SP. Then the ticket buyers will have an honest understanding of what they are purchasing. Some may like it, others perhaps not. It remains to be seen. I'm torn between wanting them to fall flat on their collective faces and feeling bad for thinking so, because I know that some innocent people will be hurt by it.

That is such a dream....They would never ever do that!!They don't care who they piss off as long as they have the money in hand...Hell they'll play over seas for a couple of years and ring them dry and let things cool down here first before they would ever let him be front guy on the ads.(which they'll probably end up doing anyways)

[donnaplease]

OK. Let's examine this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrwKZv7LBMw

Certainly Arnel has quite a bit more energy on stage singing this song (although he looks childish and ridiculous). However, if you watch closely, it's apparent that he has no connection whatsoever to the audience. He barely looks out at the audience, and there really seems to be no eye contact whatsoever. Twice he was handed a napkin, slip of paper, or something, and he doesn't even look at the person handing it to him. In order to win over fans, you've gotta make a connection with them, make them feel like you're there singing just for them. I don't see that with this guy. Perhaps he's shy, perhaps it's culture, I don't know. I'm not convinced that you can teach that to a person who is 40 years old and already established as a performer. I am of the opinion that he's probably pretty much molded by now.

I am impressed by his ability to morph into a near replica of whoever he is covering, though. There, I gave him a compliment...

[texafana]

What a crock..... Journey is not about running around, pumping your fists in the air, getting rowdy, etc. It's about one thing and one thing only. Vocals. Whoever the hell is on stage fronting Journey better be able to sing their ass off. Arnel is without a doubt the best pure vocalist they've had since Perry. Granted, he may not run around on stage (hell if he does, he'll be raked over for sure), etc, etc. I just hope he stands still and sings his ass off. Eventually his stage antics, relations with the crowd will develop.

And who can forget Steve Perry on his last solo tour? In Ft.Worth, Tx he had his frickin BACK TO THE AUDIENCE for the first couple of songs!! No stage presence at all!! It took him several tunes to warm up to the fact that there was an audience there. And after that all he did was walk around, wave once on a while...and.....sing his ass off! Which was fine with the audience.

This is Journey, not Van Halen. We don't need a clown fronting the band. We need a great singer, period.

[AR]

Beyond vocal ability, Steve Perry was a magnetic presence on stage. Steve Augeri was able to connect with the audience with a humble manner, and he did speak quite a bit in between songs. Soto is an off the charts frontman.

Arnel is a parrot who can't pronounce the words. I'd rather stay home and listen to the CD's. Shitty choice by a bunch of assholes.

[donnaplease]

What a crock..... Journey is not about running around, pumping your fists in the air, getting rowdy, etc. It's about one thing and one thing only. Vocals. Whoever the hell is on stage fronting Journey better be able to sing their ass off. Arnel is without a doubt the best pure vocalist they've had since Perry. Granted, he may not run around on stage (hell if he does, he'll be raked over for sure), etc, etc. I just hope he stands still and sings his ass off. Eventually his stage antics, relations with the crowd will develop.

And who can forget Steve Perry on his last solo tour? In Ft.Worth, Tx he had his frickin BACK TO THE AUDIENCE for the first couple of songs!! No stage presence at all!! It took him several tunes to warm up to the fact that there was an audience there. And after that all he did was walk around, wave once on a while...and.....sing his ass off! Which was fine with the audience.

This is Journey, not Van Halen. We don't need a clown fronting the band. We need a great singer, period.

I gotta disagree with ya there. It's a combination of the above. Fans want to be wowed by vocals, absolutely, but they also want to be knocked out by a kick-ass front man. What JSS lacked in the vocal interpretation, he more than made up for in his performance. How else do you think so many Def Leppard fans were won over?

If Arnel is genuine with his 'stage antics', he will be seen as such. I'm not convinced the relations with the crowd will develop. If he doesn't have it with a small, intimate crowd, how are we to expect he will be able to connect with 5000 people in a larger venue? I'm just pessimistic about it all.

As far as not needing a "clown fronting the band", some people feel like you already do.

[Rockindeano]

This is Journey, not Van Halen. We don't need a clown fronting the band. We need a great singer, period.

Boy does this sentence sound really really familiar.

[Kimmy]

Before I go to spend $40-80 I have to be excited to see the show. I went to see Jeff and would have went again. I went to Augeri once and that was enough. I won't go now. If Jeff or Perry did a show, I'd be there.

I'll have to agree with you on this.

[Deb]

Before I go to spend $40-80 I have to be excited to see the show. I went to see Jeff and would have went again. I went to Augeri once and that was enough. I won't go now. If Jeff or Perry did a show, I'd be there.

I'll have to agree with you on this.

Kimmy, good to see you posting here.

[strangegrey]

Might as well face it, the Journey machine is invincible.

I disagree there...wholeheartedly. All one has to do is observe the constant and steady decline of the band's draw and the amount of power it projects in the music industry. Currently, the band is a fraction of it's former self. The constant during this decline, is Schon, Cain, and the hirelings. At this stage, it's rather obvious that Journey, as a band, has not allowed the singer to bring what he has to the table to allow Journey to start moving onward and upward.

Journey, as it stands today (and as it has stood in the past 10 years) appears to be a band that has placed a very restrictive leash on it's singers, due to perceived past history with Schon and Cain. The one thing they didn't expect is that JSS wouldn't let the leash shackle him when he hit the stage....I think that's certainly part of the reasons behind release. JSS almost became bigger than Journey itself, while he was singing for the band. Cain couldn't have that and he put the stones to Neal and assoff to make his firing happen.

If anyone even remotely thinks that a virtual unknown from SE asia is going to convince Schlong and Fucka to give up the control and cut the leash, so that Journey could expand beyond it's current limitations....you're nuts. certifiable. Deano had a *tremendous* idea in another thread...which was an open letter to Schon basically saying "If you really want to make this work, here's what you need to do..." reference the thread if you want to know what it says, as I cant say it better. However...I will add, that I don't believe it would ever happen that way. Putting Arnel out there and making sure whatever assets he brings to the table are exploited to the benefit of the band, would in effect, require Schlong and Fucka to cut the leash. They wont do that, no matter how much money you throw at them.

So I believe discussing this is almost academic. Fucka and Fro will *never* give Arnel an environment where he could ascend (taking Journey with him) beyond the current limitations of Journey. Because to do that, would require them to relinquish control...and I still rest in my belief that one of the reasons why Arnel is singing for this band is that Neal and Cain envisioned that they can maintain a certain amount of control over a guy from SE asia who didn't have a work visa (and who's work visa is undoubtedly tied to his continued employment with Journey).

So to that end, I believe this will fail. They will tour the dirty dozen for another year or two. The upcoming album will be a flop...especially given the fact that it is *forcing* people to compare Perry in his prime to Arnel now (sorta like putting Chuck Lidel up against Toby MacGuire)...and in the end, there will be some unceremoniously ugly ejection from the band while they search some yet to be invented medium where they will find the next 'steve perry'...this will continue ad nasuem, until each and every fan that gave all to this band, has had enough....and they no longer have a venue or a fan-base to play to.


Journey will become the textbook definition of what *not* to do in once-successful bands. As they circle the drain, they will attract more laughter (even more than AR has been party to) in the coming years, as this becomes more and more rediculous and more a parody of itself.


Deano is right...they have a small window of opportunity...but I think it's closing by the second and Neal/Cain dont have the balls to push through the fast closing window...because it means that they give arnel the control they refused to give Perry, Augeri, JSS and Jeremey!

[jrnyman28]

but what I don't think they(journey) get is when they do hit the states ,Arnel goes on and the casual fan looks around saying what the fuck??They didn't with steve A because IMO people thought he looked like Perry ,sang like him ,so it must be him didn't give it another thought.Now that it's changed again ...well they might just notice this guy...that's all I'm saying.Well never all Then it will be fair Grounds and Lumpia Festivals!

That doesn't hold water to JSS' performance....You are saying they gave Steve A a pass on looks and sound but they won't with Arnel...yet they didn't with JSS either. JSS did not sneak by. And honestly, if Steve A snuck by because he sounded enough like Perry than Arnel would have NO problems doing the same.

[jrnyman28]

It's going to tank - especially in the states, and I'm going to laugh at anyone willing to give it a chance.

Since regrouping, Journey has endured in the face of lead vocals being turned so far down in the mix as to be inaudible. The band also persevered during the dark days of 2005, when Steve Augeri’s job was reduced to little more than a stationary golem dishing out niceties in-between cued-up tapes
("Is Ontario ready to rock?" "Are we having a party or what!" )
And still, the sizeable audiences left concerts none the wiser.

If none of the aforementioned tragedies (and that’s what they are) spelt the death knell, why would a little something like ethnicity or lack of stage presence, be the monkey wrench that finally gums up the works?
Nope, I’m sorry. I just can't believe that.

Might as well face it, the Journey machine is invincible.

Invincible is too strong a word but your post is completely valid!

[jrnyman28]

I just hope he stands still and sings his ass off. Eventually his stage antics, relations with the crowd will develop.

And who can forget Steve Perry on his last solo tour? In Ft.Worth, Tx he had his frickin BACK TO THE AUDIENCE for the first couple of songs!! No stage presence at all!! It took him several tunes to warm up to the fact that there was an audience there. And after that all he did was walk around, wave once on a while...and.....sing his ass off! Which was fine with the audience.

Steve A had similar issues when he started. Very timid onstage, very reserved. When I saw him 1999 it took more than half the show for him to finally "warm up". But by the time of the UTR Tour I thought he was amazing. That was the tour that fully won me over. The setlist was good, the show was amazing and Steve sounded pretty damn great. Then the wheels fell off...

[texafana]

Well, try telling a zillion woman who's only purpose going to a Journey show is to be wowed during "Open Arms", "Faithfully", "When You Love A Woman" and hopefully "WCTNGOF". Stage antics need not apply, just stand there and sing your ass off.

[Arnelian]

Might as well face it, the Journey machine is invincible.

...So I believe discussing this is almost academic. Fucka and Fro will *never* give Arnel an environment where he could ascend (taking Journey with him) beyond the current limitations of Journey. Because to do that, would require them to relinquish control...and I still rest in my belief that one of the reasons why Arnel is singing for this band is that Neal and Cain envisioned that they can maintain a certain amount of control over a guy from SE asia who didn't have a work visa (and who's work visa is undoubtedly tied to his continued employment with Journey)...

------------------

what a presumption. Let me tell you about working visa. Once you are granted a working visa, it stays a Working Visa untill it expires or there is aviolation of immigration laws. There is no one who could stop Arnel from jumping ship and be hired by any band if there is any band out there who wants to sponsor him. While he is here, he can marry a U.S. citizen (and many of his countrywomen would do that for this guy) and become a permanent resident-nothing that the JOURNEY camp can control. This is not about control. It is about music , artistry, and money too, but they all mess together, don't they? If anybody thinks this is a naive guy who has not seen a tall skyscaper then you are misreading the whole thing. If Arnel lasts even just for one year with this band and is then terminated, he is already an ICON in his home country, the magnitude of which is comparable to Elvis here in a lesser degree!

[AR]

Might as well face it, the Journey machine is invincible.

...So I believe discussing this is almost academic. Fucka and Fro will *never* give Arnel an environment where he could ascend (taking Journey with him) beyond the current limitations of Journey. Because to do that, would require them to relinquish control...and I still rest in my belief that one of the reasons why Arnel is singing for this band is that Neal and Cain envisioned that they can maintain a certain amount of control over a guy from SE asia who didn't have a work visa (and who's work visa is undoubtedly tied to his continued employment with Journey)...

------------------

what a presumption. Let me tell you about working visa. Once you are granted a working visa, it stays a Working Visa untill it expires or there is aviolation of immigration laws. There is no one who could stop Arnel from jumping ship and be hired by any band if there is any band out there who wants to sponsor him. While he is here, he can marry a U.S. citizen (and many of his countrywomen would do that for this guy) and become a permanent resident-nothing that the JOURNEY camp can control. This is not about control. It is about music , artistry, and money too, but they all mess together, don't they? If anybody thinks this is a naive guy who has not seen a tall skyscaper then you are misreading the whole thing. If Arnel lasts even just for one year with this band and is then terminated, he is already an ICON in his home country, the magnitude of which is comparable to Elvis here in a lesser degree!

Arnelian is either a fat broad, gay, or a Cain relative.

[Arnelian]

"Arnelian is either a fat broad, gay, or a Cain relative".....AR

..............................

Unlike the now defunct personalities who came before me, you cannot engage me in an "F" bomb war, because i will always stick to the real issue. The fact is you have no clue who i am and will never know who i am. But I know you---maybe not personally. So keep guessing!

[AR]

"Arnelian is either a fat broad, gay, or a Cain relative".....AR

..............................

Unlike the now defunct personalities who came before me, you cannot engage me in an "F" bomb war, because i will always stick to the real issue. The fact is you have no clue who i am and will never know who i am. But I know you---maybe not personally. So keep guessing!

Of course I will never know who you are because you're an anonymous coward.

[Arnelian]

just smart enought to make sure nobody goes around posting numbers and addresses and pictures to get even.

[AR]

just smart enought to make sure nobody goes around posting numbers and addresses and pictures to get even.

Really? Well what was attempted on here with Vader was complete b.s.

[Greg]

just smart enought to make sure nobody goes around posting numbers and addresses and pictures to get even.

To get even? Meaning an attempt at "an eye for an eye" in order to perform the same action that was performed on the victim. So, is there an admission of guilt?

[Arnelian]

Could it be remotely possible that people could have been, till now, barking at the wrong tree?