OT: The Clinton Administration

[7 Wishes]

... At least Clinton isn't responsible for thousands of our military dying in a war ...

Many believe that if Clinton would have taken-out Bin Laden when he had the chance, there'd be a whole lot more people alive today...in New York, in the middle east, and in our military.


later~

I concur.

The Clinton Administration gave the Bush Administration massive amounts of information and told them Bin Laden would be their #1 policy concern, and yet Bush ignored - and never even read - all the documents and memos. Clinton did what he could. Bush did NOTHING. 9/11 occurred as a consequence of his ignorance and his anti-Muslim rhetoric and foreign policy. If Gore had won the election - which Bush only won dubiously at best, and criminally at worst - 9/11 never would have happened. Nor would the war in Iraq have occurred. The economy would be stable and prosperous, and the environment would be cared for. People would have access to Universal health care and we could not continue to lead the civilized world in obesity, deaths before 50, and infant mortality.

But at least Bush, by killing a half million Iraqis, managed to lower gas prices. We got that, at least. Oh, and the rich have gotten MUCH richer. And families cannot survive on two full-time incomes anymore, as at least one parent has to take a part time job in over 40% of American households (compared to 12% under Clinton). But thank God gas prices went way down.

[Rip Rokken]

All I did was a simple Google search for "Clinton Administration corrupt". I clicked on the second link provided, skimmed the topics included, copied the URL and pasted it into this thread. I never read any of the information from the site and figured most of it was probably fabricated.

I do appreciate the experiment, but wanted to say in this case, all that particular amateurish site did was compile all the Clinton administration "scandals" that had made mainstream news. Looking thru the list, I recognized at least 90% of them from the time they occurred. The Clinton's were able to wriggle out of being held liable for most of them, but never disproved a one to my knowledge.

Like I mentioned before, I personally know or have spoken with several people very close to the Clintons or had personal knowledge of their scandals over the years, and they are heavily corrupt. Aside from whatever someone wants to say he accomplished in office that was positive, they are dangerous people, and I've never seen another political family like them.

The Clintons are a very strange group, in that many in their inner circle would fall on their swords for them, knowing that they will never get that loyalty in return. There are so many Clinton scandals from when he was Governor that never really made a splash in the national news, it's not funny. The Jerry Jewell pardoning of Robert "Say" McIntosh's son is one. His illegitimate child with a black prostitute was another. Cocaine use, misuse of the AR State Troopers... The list goes on and on...

I do want to clarify that I don't hate Bill Clinton personally, and if I met him I'd probably enjoy his company. There is actually a good chance I may get to meet him one day, but have not taken advantage of the opportunity. I would look forward to it.

[marco17]

Over the past 8 years I have learned to love and hate politics and everything do with it. Maybe it was my time living outside DC. Whether you are Dem or Rep, each group has their issues, many of them, and it's hard to trust them. I have no idea who the hell I am going to vote for come next year, but if there are only two comments I'd make about the election or candidates thus far it is this.

1. Just cause Hillary's last name is Clinton doesn't mean the country will revert back to exactly the way it was when Bill was President. I know a lot of unknowledgeable Democrats...none here of course.... who just assume she'll run everything the same way he did and it will be like going back in time. I think Bill did a good job during his 8 years.

2. Bush is an "F"-ing twit, can't believe at one point I ever supported the idiot, but that doesn't mean all the GOP candidates are clones of him. The closest to him is McCain, and God help us if that old, short tempered dude where to be elected. He'd push the "Big Red Button" just for shits and giggles.

My personal opinion... regardless, maybe we'd be better off if the country went a totally different direction so it didn't end up Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton for a minimum of 24 years... I think it's time for something fresh, regardless to party affilliation.

Enough of my 2 cents.

[Rip Rokken]

Now here is some honest to goodness ol' fashioned conspiracy theory! Tom Cruise accused of being 2nd in charge of the Church of Scientology, and that his daughter Suri was the product of a sperm donation by the late L. Ron Hubbard!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,320519,00.html

Ok, force of habit I looked at the Fox News website again... so sue me!

[sadie65]

People misuse the word "fact" when they actually mean opinion. I say that, because most people have similar and yet opposing values. You will gravitate towards what makes you comfortable. You will spin something to fit your needs or beliefs. It's human nature.

Carry on.

[Enigma869]

Over the past 8 years I have learned to love and hate politics and everything do with it. Maybe it was my time living outside DC. Whether you are Dem or Rep, each group has their issues, many of them, and it's hard to trust them. I have no idea who the hell I am going to vote for come next year, but if there are only two comments I'd make about the election or candidates thus far it is this.

1. Just cause Hillary's last name is Clinton doesn't mean the country will revert back to exactly the way it was when Bill was President. I know a lot of unknowledgeable Democrats...none here of course.... who just assume she'll run everything the same way he did and it will be like going back in time. I think Bill did a good job during his 8 years.

2. Bush is an "F"-ing twit, can't believe at one point I ever supported the idiot, but that doesn't mean all the GOP candidates are clones of him. The closest to him is McCain, and God help us if that old, short tempered dude where to be elected. He'd push the "Big Red Button" just for shits and giggles.

My personal opinion... regardless, maybe we'd be better off if the country went a totally different direction so it didn't end up Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton for a minimum of 24 years... I think it's time for something fresh, regardless to party affilliation.

Enough of my 2 cents.

I agree with you, 100% that it's ABSURD to assume because her last name is Clinton that she would have anywhere near the success Bill had. I personally think Bill Clinton is a brilliant man (in spite of his flaws), and I have never ranked Hillary on par with him, intellectually. I certainly don't think Hillary is intellectually challenged, but, I do think it's ridiculous to think that because she was married to a president that she is all of a sudden qualified to be one! As for McCain...I wouldn't sweat that too much. As I said previously, we don't elect 71 year old presidents in this country, who aren't tall enough to get on most rides at Disney!


John from Boston

[RockitRide]

"...yaddi, yaddi, blah, blah, neither could get over their obsession with Saddam!"

This line of reasoning is a popular view but like all popular views it is wrong. (Soccer will be the most popular sport in America in 20-years, signed, Popular Opinion, circa 1978) One thing I have learned in my business and investment career is that the most common opinions are always simple, straightforward, make a lot of sense, and are always without fail, 100% DEAD WRONG each and every time. The more prevalent the opinion, the further from reality. You don't have to know why it is, you just have to know it is. Be a good listener and observer of human opinions versus human behavior, which rarely match. Or, keep watching Larry, Oprah and Martha and keep posting those priceless nuggets of popular wisdom! Cha-Ching! I never argue politics with people, which is a pointless waste of time, but I do profit from their well intentioned ignorance, my own ignorance included by the way. (And thanks to all for selling me UPL for 50 cents on the VSE and driving natural gas down to less than 2 bucks back in 1997! That was a classic... ) There is another "Classic" brewing and it has to do with an overweight, ex-VP who can convince anyone under 21, or a former English major of any age, to buy a t-shirt... Place your bets today and retire young...or be a sheople and buy a ticket to a sham eco-concert...at least you'll "feel" good, for a little while, if you buy the ticket ...the shelf life on this current "Y2K redux" is about 2 to 3 years. I advise looking into coal stocks, but mostly I advise being your own man. Look around you, and find out what actually works. Then weigh that against what you "think" works. It's simple but we justs don't understand it.

[Loneman1]

I have lost a lot of respect for you Dave, if in fact you go to these sites and actually believe the crap on them.

For you to base your arguments against Bill Clinton with copy and paste garbage is sickening.

I'm getting the impression he's using this to demonstrate a completely different point, and am waiting for it...

Exactly. Point being that many of the libs on this board consistently jump at the chance to believe any and every kooky theory about Bush as long as it makes him look bad. They behave the same way the conspiracy nuts during Clinton's time did, falling hook, line, and sinker for these stories simply out of hatred for a particular person.

All I did was a simple Google search for "Clinton Administration corrupt". I clicked on the second link provided, skimmed the topics included, copied the URL and pasted it into this thread. I never read any of the information from the site and figured most of it was probably fabricated.

Problem is, most of the theories aren't all that kooky.

[CatEyes]

And many here, with the exception of a certain guy in Texas believes in capital letters and proper punctuation.

well either i have a secret with larry or i'm feeding the baby and only have one free hand!

you realize that you have opened the door for breasts (or "boobs" as they are referred to in some places) to become the topic of this thread?

Nice way to deflect!!

Use the tools at hand!!

Cat

[Enigma869]

"...yaddi, yaddi, blah, blah, neither could get over their obsession with Saddam!"

This line of reasoning is a popular view but like all popular views it is wrong. (Soccer will be the most popular sport in America in 20-years, signed, Popular Opinion, circa 1978) One thing I have learned in my business and investment career is that the most common opinions are always simple, straightforward, make a lot of sense, and are always without fail, 100% DEAD WRONG each and every time. The more prevalent the opinion, the further from reality. You don't have to know why it is, you just have to know it is. Be a good listener and observer of human opinions versus human behavior, which rarely match. Or, keep watching Larry, Oprah and Martha and keep posting those priceless nuggets of popular wisdom! Cha-Ching! I never argue politics with people, which is a pointless waste of time, but I do profit from their well intentioned ignorance, my own ignorance included by the way. (And thanks to all for selling me UPL for 50 cents on the VSE and driving natural gas down to less than 2 bucks back in 1997! That was a classic... ) There is another "Classic" brewing and it has to do with an overweight, ex-VP who can convince anyone under 21, or a former English major of any age, to buy a t-shirt... Place your bets today and retire young...or be a sheople and buy a ticket to a sham eco-concert...at least you'll "feel" good, for a little while, if you buy the ticket ...the shelf life on this current "Y2K redux" is about 2 to 3 years. I advise looking into coal stocks, but mostly I advise being your own man. Look around you, and find out what actually works. Then weigh that against what you "think" works. It's simple but we justs don't understand it.

Sorry we can't all be as omnipotent as you claim to be! Thank you for bestowing your wisdom upon we simple-minded thinking folks! One more thing...People from Boston NEVER refer to the Boston Red Sox as "BoSox", just like we NEVER refer to Boston as "Beantown"! Also, don't call the Red Sox "America's Team". It's a monniker we have NO interest in! Let the Cowboys and their fans be the only ones full enough of themselves to call themselves "America's Team"!


John from Boston

[Enigma869]

you realize that you have opened the door for breasts (or "boobs" as they are referred to in some places) to become the topic of this thread?



Cat

I call them TITS


John from Boston

[7 Wishes]

Without question, Saddam Hussein had extensive ties to terrorism.

You typical Republican, brainwashed sheep...

The independent 9/11 commission found NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER BETWEEN 9/11 AND IRAQ AND SADDAM HUSSEIN.

Fact.

Case and point.

Issue closed.

Tertiary relationships such as the ones you have illustrated are not grounds for war.

You, sir, are a yes man who refuses to see the truth.

[Rip Rokken]

Without question, Saddam Hussein had extensive ties to terrorism.

You typical Republican, brainwashed sheep...

The independent 9/11 commission found NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER BETWEEN 9/11 AND IRAQ AND SADDAM HUSSEIN.

He said ties to "terrorism", not specifically 9/11. I know of at least a few things -- the $25,000 reward he used to pay families of Palestinian suicide bombers is one. And there was the issue of Mohammad Atta meeting with people in Iraq. Not saying this was grounds for war, though. Just links to terrorism.

[Rockindeano]

Without question, Saddam Hussein had extensive ties to terrorism.

You typical Republican, brainwashed sheep...

The independent 9/11 commission found NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER BETWEEN 9/11 AND IRAQ AND SADDAM HUSSEIN.

He said ties to "terrorism", not specifically 9/11. I know of at least a few things -- the $25,000 reward he used to pay families of Palestinian suicide bombers is one. And there was the issue of Mohammad Atta meeting with people in Iraq. Not saying this was grounds for war, though. Just links to terrorism.

Funny. George W Bush has maintained all along that Iraq was not connected to 9/11 yet his Vice president has always said that. They lie so much and are so inept, they can't keep their story straight.

I tell ya, the Clinton's aren't pure and perfect but at least they are smart. This is the time for say Lou Dobbs and or Bloomberg to run. I tell ya, if anyone wants to swoop in and win this election going away, it's Colin Powell.

[NealIsGod]

I tell ya, if anyone wants to swoop in and win this election going away, it's Colin Powell.

Yup, and I think it is going to happen.

[conversationpc]

You typical Republican, brainwashed sheep...

Republican, brainwashed sheep or Democratic myrmidons. Take your pick.

Anyway, no one here said anything about Iraq being tied to 9/11.

[donnaplease]

Without question, Saddam Hussein had extensive ties to terrorism.

You typical Republican, brainwashed sheep...

The independent 9/11 commission found NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER BETWEEN 9/11 AND IRAQ AND SADDAM HUSSEIN.

Fact.

Case and point.

Issue closed.

Tertiary relationships such as the ones you have illustrated are not grounds for war.

You, sir, are a yes man who refuses to see the truth.

I think it's very easy for us to be Monday morning quarterbacks, but the truth is that our government did what they thought was right at the time, given the information they had. BOTH sides agreed that there was a potential threat, and given what happened on 9/11, I assume they thought it was better to be proactive. Some of those quotes by prominent democrats were made well before Bush took office, so I believe the stance that 'they were voting for war because of the information that the president gave them' is flawed too.

It's a no-win situation IMO. There will always be somebody on the other side of the fence who casts blame for a particular action or inaction.

[Rockindeano]

I think it's very easy for us to be Monday morning quarterbacks, but the truth is that our government did what they thought was right at the time, given the information they had.

You have got to be kidding? The US Government thought the right thing to do was go into Iraq and why was that? Bush sends Colin Powell to the floor of the United nations and has him sell the world a lie. This "war" was planned and poorly I might add, long before W got into the White House. And yes, Hillary should not have voted for the war, however, I don't think she thought it would be managed by Bugs Bunny.

BOTH sides agreed that there was a potential threat, and given what happened on 9/11, I assume they thought it was better to be proactive. Some of those quotes by prominent democrats were made well before Bush took office, so I believe the stance that 'they were voting for war because of the information that the president gave them' is flawed too.

There was NO threat to America, none. Huessein had missiles that might go as far as 35 miles, sic. He had a few scuds. We were never in danger. Yes there is always concern with guys like Saddam, but those concerns were for the region and states like Turkey and Kuwait. Ira could have been dealt with, after Afghanistan was properly taken care of, but notice we haven't really won that one either have we? The fact that Bush says Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and Cheney said Iraq was involved speaks corruption. Wars are not to be used for politics yet that is exactly what this shitbag administration has done. They have wiped their ass with the American flag, the same flag they wrap themselves in once they get in a little trouble.

It's a no-win situation IMO. There will always be somebody on the other side of the fence who casts blame for a particular action or inaction.

It's called being a patriot. We are allowed to call out our leaders.

[7 Wishes]

The books were cooked more than Nigerian yellow cake. The reason Democratic senators voted for the war was because they were being LIED TO. Deliberately, and pre-meditatively. The Bush Administration knew EXACTLY what it was doing. There is no plausible deniablility. We were all fooled by that laughably lie-packed address that W gave...you know, the one where one day alter 91% of Americans approved going to war against Iraq, even the Feminazis and Beatniks and Flaming Liberals. The one that was one entire catalogue of lies, misrepresentations, misstatements, and balderdash.

Come on, you remember. I know you do. It's an inconvenient truth, isn't it? Kind of like the "myth" of global warming.

BTW. conversationspc and Rip Rokken...we clearly don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues, but I want you to know I consider you both extremely intelligent and well-spoken. Some of your postings have made me reconsider some of my positions and beliefs over the past year or so. You're good guys, and it's not your fault you're Republicans.

[chf34jmac]

Based on the comments posted here by people representing both parties, I have come to one irrefutable conclusion. Both parties have their constituents so brainwashed and blindly loyal that there is never any hope of either side seeing the points made by the other as valid. Think I'm off the mark? Go back and start reading slowly again from page one of this thread. There were points made that democrats were speaking of this threat that Saddam posed long before Bush took office, however this particular point is blatantly ignored in responses and called lies and other various names by the opposition. Face it Dems and GOP, this country is how it is right now because of ineptness, arrogance and the inequities of BOTH parties. No one side is more at fault than the other. Unfortunately for the citizens of this country, until a better system of checks and balances is developed this is what we are stuck with. Two parties who pander to their most ardent, financially powerful backers.

[Rip Rokken]

BTW. conversationspc and Rip Rokken...we clearly don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues, but I want you to know I consider you both extremely intelligent and well-spoken. Some of your postings have made me reconsider some of my positions and beliefs over the past year or so. You're good guys, and it's not your fault you're Republicans.

Hey, likewise, 7... I love discussing ideas with intelligent people like yourself. But I'll be the first to admit I'm not near as sharp as I used to be when I gave actually gave a crap about politics. At this point I've lost almost all faith in our system, and dedicate very little time to knowing what's going on in the world, except in a very broad sense. I did use to be a Republican, but quit my party affiliation years ago. I'm just a very staunchly conservative independent. You know, small government, low taxes, lots of liberty but w/ personal responsibility and accountability, hard on crime... that type of stuff.

I hate politics with a passion these days, and had put myself on a news shut-out for over a year because I got tired of being pissed off all the time. Just wanted to take some time to enjoy my life and concentrate on being a good, productive citizen, good family guy, etc. The news was greatly affecting my mood (and it was probably just the American media... I should try looking elsewhere). I'm now starting to pay a little more attention to what's going on in the world again, but am nowhere as close to informed as I used to be. Overall, these days I'm much better at discussing ideas than events.

I do know one thing... There are enough sharp people here on both sides of the debate that I know I can't get away with simple talking point arguments, so I try to be a little more thoughtful in what I say. And I'm always flexible... willing to adopt another position if it proves better than my own.

[Rick]

BTW. conversationspc and Rip Rokken...we clearly don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues, but I want you to know I consider you both extremely intelligent and well-spoken. Some of your postings have made me reconsider some of my positions and beliefs over the past year or so. You're good guys, and it's not your fault you're Republicans.

Hey, likewise, 7... I love discussing ideas with intelligent people like yourself. But I'll be the first to admit I'm not near as sharp as I used to be when I gave actually gave a crap about politics. At this point I've lost almost all faith in our system, and dedicate very little time to knowing what's going on in the world, except in a very broad sense. I did use to be a Republican, but quit my party affiliation years ago. I'm just a very staunchly conservative independent. You know, small government, low taxes, lots of liberty but w/ personal responsibility and accountability, hard on crime... that type of stuff.

I hate politics with a passion these days, and had put myself on a news shut-out for over a year because I got tired of being pissed off all the time. Just wanted to take some time to enjoy my life and concentrate on being a good, productive citizen, good family guy, etc. The news was greatly affecting my mood (and it was probably just the American media... I should try looking elsewhere). I'm now starting to pay a little more attention to what's going on in the world again, but am nowhere as close to informed as I used to be. Overall, these days I'm much better at discussing ideas than events.

I do know one thing... There are enough sharp people here on both sides of the debate that I know I can't get away with simple talking point arguments, so I try to be a little more thoughtful in what I say. And I'm always flexible... willing to adopt another position if it proves better than my own.

Wow, it's very heartwarming to see such good hearted discussion between parties that have such differences. Fags!

[Rockindeano]

As for McCain...I wouldn't sweat that too much. As I said previously, we don't elect 71 year old presidents in this country, who aren't tall enough to get on most rides at Disney!

John from Boston

McCain will definitely be the nominee. He is the only one that can win.

I hate is crusty ass, but he is their best shot, bar none.

[Rip Rokken]

Wow, it's very heartwarming to see such good hearted discussion between parties that have such differences. Fags!

Well, I'd still have to put a bag over his face first.. Seriously, I have nothing against your average Democrats. I've met many more HOT democrat females than Republican ones.

[Enigma869]

McCain will definitely be the nominee. He is the only one that can win.

I hate is crusty ass, but he is their best shot, bar none.

Dean...

As much as I'd like to refute your point of Hillary not being the nominee of the Democratic party, I really can't, because I'm honestly not sure. As much as I loathe Hillary, I'm cognizant of the fact that she does have her supporters. I'm just hoping that anyone but her gets the nomination. As for McCain...I honestly don't think the Republicans have any truly viable candidate, but I just can't see ANY way that McCain carries the ticket. NH is the only state the guy ever wins, because he spends every penny he has on advertising in the Boston area. for whatever reason! NH definitely won't be the knockout punch for McCain, because he'll probably win the state. I think if he loses some of the primaries immediately following NH, his campaign will be on life support, because his is not a well-funded campaign.



John from Boston

[rubyglare]

There was a group of neo-cons who brought a resolution they'd already signed to Clinton & wanted him to overthrow Iraq. Just why Clinton & Blair were bombing the crap out of Iraq all throughout the 90's was something of a mystery to me; I recall seeing on pbs a special showing Iraqi hospitals with empty medicine cabinets, those "no-fly zones", I thought it was ridiculous. I also recall both Colin Powell & Condi Rice saying in Feb-March 2001 that Saddam Hussein was "defanged & contained"-they changed their tune rather strangely. I also remember when George Bush said in July 2003-4 months after invading Iraq-that Hussein did not let the weapons inspectors INTO Iraq, he never corrected himself. Iraq is a confidence game, stealing our last good American dollars. Clinton partially undid the protections enacted in the 1930s, Glassman Act or something similar, letting the banks go crazy. Nafta did nothing as advertized, it just lets the factory owners pit the world's workers against each other; Clinton also let Walmart out of Arkansas-remember their ad 'Made in America Made proud'?

[Rick]

Wow, it's very heartwarming to see such good hearted discussion between parties that have such differences. Fags!

Well, I'd still have to put a bag over his face first.. Seriously, I have nothing against your average Democrats. I've met many more HOT democrat females than Republican ones.

Good, I'm a Democrat Union member. We can still chug beers and enjoy music then.

[Rip Rokken]

Good, I'm a Democrat Union member. We can still chug beers and enjoy music then.

But do you know any hot Dem chicks?

[Rick]

Good, I'm a Democrat Union member. We can still chug beers and enjoy music then.

But do you know any hot Dem chicks?

Married to one.

[Rockindeano]

Well, I'd still have to put a bag over his face first.. Seriously, I have nothing against your average Democrats. I've met many more HOT democrat females than Republican ones.

Looks? I would more so than not take a republica, as they have real nice bullshit jobs where they prance around all day in the office just showing off their asses and legs and their "come fuck me heels." The Democratic chick is doing real work, whether it be driving a tow truck or being a rock star.

Sex? The Democrat hands down. You know they are kinky and always swallow. The republican bitches probably never have oral sex and alway missionary for those uptight ho's.

I would personally take an independent red head.