OT: The Clemens Interview:

[Rockindeano]

He now has to go to Congress. He better remember, that, he shouldn't use these tactics: "Let's talk about the future not the past", "I no speak English" and no finger wagging, claiming "I never used steroids, period."

Rocket is going to implode.

I think he filed this lawsuit so he can sit before congress and say, "I'd love to answer that question, but I have a pending lawsuit......blah, blah, blah..." An escape clause out of pleading the 5th or purgering himself.

Half right. By filing a lawsuit, he can now say, "I cannot talk about this due to pending litigation." He didn't want to invoke the 5th. That makes him look guilty in the court of public opinion.

[RedWingFan]

He now has to go to Congress. He better remember, that, he shouldn't use these tactics: "Let's talk about the future not the past", "I no speak English" and no finger wagging, claiming "I never used steroids, period."

Rocket is going to implode.

I think he filed this lawsuit so he can sit before congress and say, "I'd love to answer that question, but I have a pending lawsuit......blah, blah, blah..." An escape clause out of pleading the 5th or purgering himself.

Half right. By filing a lawsuit, he can now say, "I cannot talk about this due to pending litigation." He didn't want to invoke the 5th. That makes him look guilty in the court of public opinion.

Dude, that's what I said! The lawsuit is an escape clause out of pleading the 5th or purgering himself.

[NealIsGod]

He now has to go to Congress. He better remember, that, he shouldn't use these tactics: "Let's talk about the future not the past", "I no speak English" and no finger wagging, claiming "I never used steroids, period."

Rocket is going to implode.

I think he filed this lawsuit so he can sit before congress and say, "I'd love to answer that question, but I have a pending lawsuit......blah, blah, blah..." An escape clause out of pleading the 5th or purgering himself.

Half right. By filing a lawsuit, he can now say, "I cannot talk about this due to pending litigation." He didn't want to invoke the 5th. That makes him look guilty in the court of public opinion.

How is that different than what RWFan said?

[Ms_M]

I realize that McNamee is talking to the Feds, etc., but this has me wondering... He named Pettite, and he came clean. Of course, he said it was only for "healing" not to get "an edge". I'm pretty sure that crap, but that's neither here nor there... What reason would he have to lie about Clemens? I suppose it could be argued that Clemens is a bigger fish, but I don't think so. I think he did it, and why doesn't he just fess up and be a man???

[Enigma869]

I have to tell you that after listening to the recorded phone call between Roger Clemens and McNamee (Roger played it at his press conference this afternoon), I am now having second thoughts on Roger being guilty. Clemens said SEVERAL times, during the phone call, "Mac, I didn't do this, and I just want you to tell the truth". At no point did McNamee say anything to the effect of I just told the truth. Then I wonder why Roger never directly asked the guy "Why did you lie"? Very interesting phone conversation. I'll tell you this...He's the ONLY guy who has filed a lawsuit to clear his name, so it certainly makes you wonder. It should be interesting to see how this thing turns out. I'll be the first to apologize if I'm wrong in not believing the guy, when I listened to him on 60 Minutes!


John from Boston

[Red13JoePa]

Neither would directly address the issue of who was lying.
Clearly both went in knowing it would be taped and not wanting to hit it head on.

Clemens kept saying "I want SOMEone to tell the truth" instead of "Brian, you need to tell the truth" and Brian kept saying "what do you want me to do?" They skirted the direct issue the whole time.

That said it had a decided air of Clemens innocence and McNamee guilt.

[Enigma869]

Neither would directly address the issue of who was lying.
Clearly both went in knowing it would be taped and not wanting to hit it head on.

Clemens kept saying "I want SOMEone to tell the truth" instead of "Brian, you need to tell the truth" and Brian kept saying "what do you want me to do?" They skirted the direct issue the whole time.

That said it had a decided air of Clemens innocence and McNamee guilt.

I agree with your assessment 100%, Joepa! They CLEARLY both danced around the issue, but I just came away feeling that I may have judged Clemens a bit too quickly. As I said earlier, I honestly never viewed Clemens as a steroid user, just because of how his body was built. He was a guy who always battled with his weight a bit, and I'm not referring to muscle weight. That said, NOTHING would surprise me in today's game of baseball!


John from Boston

[Ms_M]

I made may earlier post before I heard the tape at Clemens' press conference. I still have the same question, but am not 100% sure about Clemens' guilt.

[Rockindeano]

Red13 will never be confused with the more bright ones on this board..

Dude, that phone call was obviously taped and rigged. McNamee isn't the liar. Clemens is in deep shit and is trying to muddy the waters here. He is fucked. They are all playing the media.

Clemens is guilty as OJ.

[Uno_up]

I still think he's guilty.

I don't think it was a question well suited for him, but he had this to say when asked about the punishment and what he thought it should be:
"What they are doing to their bodies is punishment enough"
To me, that's the worst thing he could have said. Why not just say "I think the steps baseball has taken are appropriate"?

...Then again if he said MLB should give a year suspension for the first offense and lifetime after that or something strong, people would have said great, you're retired so what do you care. Even if he said what baseball is doing is enough, same response. You're retired so it means nothing to you.

One of Clemens' arguments is that there are canceled checks, money order receipts and other paper evidence on many players in the Mitchell Report. Where's the evidence on him? Also, if he bought them from some supplier, he's now publicly encouraged that supplier to come forward and implicate him.

Of course the supplier won't. Clemens probably paid cash for everything he received and his supplier recently received a briefcase with $100,000 in it so he knows he's not coming forward. [edit-insert winky man here]

[Red13JoePa]

LSU 24 unanswered points Ohio State 10.

Come on, Sweater Vest!!!!

Don't abandon the run! They are not stopping Chris Wells and Boeckman's shaky as HELL!!! Get off the field on 3rd down on defense!

PS< I love how when you don;t agree w/ RockinDeano you're dumb.

[piecesofeight]

MOST times when a high profile person has been accused of something...we will see them stay quiet about it...Clemens is not doing that...he is so drawing attention to himself with the paths he is now taking on this.
Just because someone is good at something..really good..it doesn't mean that we should jump the gun and assume the worse.
Look at what Armstrong did AFTER cancer..
Clemens is publicly fighting like hell now..before he said he wasn't saying anything..such as to congress because he didn't think there was anything to say.
Granted..we don't really know these people..I just don't think one should jump the gun because a guy has done so well. Hard work does pay off sometimes.
To say you assume he guily..or sort of always wondered if he did it..since he did so well in his sport..then now say..I knew it because now someone is saying he did it. Crazy how one person saying something can screw things up for someone.
We shall see how this plays out.

[Saint John]

MOST times when a high profile person has been accused of something...we will see them stay quiet about it...Clemens is not doing that...he is so drawing attention to himself with the paths he is now taking on this.
Just because someone is good at something..really good..it doesn't mean that we should jump the gun and assume the worse.
Look at what Armstrong did AFTER cancer..
Clemens is publicly fighting like hell now..before he said he wasn't saying anything..such as to congress because he didn't think there was anything to say.
Granted..we don't really know these people..I just don't think one should jump the gun because a guy has done so well. Hard work does pay off sometimes.
To say you assume he guily..or sort of always wondered if he did it..since he did so well in his sport..then now say..I knew it because now someone is saying he did it. Crazy how one person saying something can screw things up for someone.
We shall see how this plays out.

Facts about Lance Armstrong (who I consider to be the biggest doper that was never caught).
I think Clemens and Armstrong both took steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. Armstrong EPO and Clemens possibly HGH. Clemens outed himself during that phone call when he never said "Why the fuck are you lying and telling people I took steroids when I didn't?" That taped phone call sealed the verdict for me. Cheater.


Armstrong told O'Reilly his hematocrit was 41, nine percent below the permitted maximum, and that he was "going to do what the others do" to enhance it.

In July 1999, Armstrong asked her for makeup to cover bruises on his arm from injections. The authors maintain that legal injections are generally injected in the buttocks.

In May 1998, Armstrong asked her to dispose of syringes after the Tour of the Netherlands.

In May 1999, she ferried 24 pills from Johan Bruyneel, the USPS team director, to Armstrong near his home in Nice.

She provides details of Armstrong's 1999 positive test for steroids, claiming Armstrong told her he had used a steroid around the time of the Route du Sud that he thought would have cleared his system before the Tour. O'Reilly says doctors backdated a prescription for a legal cream containing the steroid, and organizers allowed it, even though the cream wasn't listed on Armstrong's mandatory medical form.

[Journey/Survivor]

Clemens is full of shit.

I'm a huge Indians fan, and back in the late 90's the Indians were trying to sign Clemens. At the time I did not want them to sign Clemens because it was pretty obvious that his better days were behind him, he had been going down hill for the last few years he was with the Red Sox. Then next thing you know he started pitching better than ever with the Blue Jays. He was pitching too good for words with them. Then he goes to the Yankees and pitches almost as good even though he was by then a hundred years old by Baseball standards.

He started getting bigger and stronger than he had ever been with the Red Sox once he joined the Blue Jays, again, even though he was near 40 years old at the time.

He also started having emotional meltdowns while he was with the Yankees. An example is the bat throwing incident with Mike Piazza in the World Series, he went psycho on Piazza. And roids tend to cause serious anger issues with men who are on them.

Clemens is just lying to try to save face so people will think that he was really as good as his stats say he was. I would have been shocked if his name didn't surface in the report.

[Enigma869]

Just because someone is good at something..really good..it doesn't mean that we should jump the gun and assume the worse.
Look at what Armstrong did AFTER cancer..

If you're looking to come to Clemens' defense, Lance Armstrong probably isn't the guy you want to use as an example to defend his innocence!


John from Boston

[Red13JoePa]

Changed my mind.
Listened to the entire call again and Clemens did it.

Both were trying to get the other to say something incriminating and when Roger realized McNamee was too cagey he quashed the call.

Oh, he threw out a lot of "This is ridiculous" and "I didn't do this" and "someone needs to tell the truth" and "my family's getting it from all angles" but in 17 1/2 minutes he NEVER stood up and said "Mac, you lied, I didn't 'roid and you know it" (so the call is full of pretty transparent and very vague feigned indignation) and the reason I think WHY is because a direct denial and confronatiion like that would've caused Mac to go "Yes you did" which they did NOT want on the tape.

And then McNamee was desperate to get Clemens to say "I want you to say I didn't roid, go to jail for a while for lying to the feds and I'll cut you a check like Bonds and Greg Anderson." The most shocking to me was he even went SO far as to say "You want me to go jail?" reading between the lines I know EXACTLY what he meant.

Every time he asked that question "what do you want me to do" Clemens couldn't say "Man up and tell them you lied about me" because he didn't.
Instead Clemens would answer with some "ah, this is real fucked up for my family" crap.

Guilty.

[Rockindeano]

Clemens is full of shit.

I'm a huge Indians fan, and back in the late 90's the Indians were trying to sign Clemens. At the time I did not want them to sign Clemens because it was pretty obvious that his better days were behind him, he had been going down hill for the last few years he was with the Red Sox. Then next thing you know he started pitching better than ever with the Blue Jays. He was pitching too good for words with them. Then he goes to the Yankees and pitches almost as good even though he was by then a hundred years old by Baseball standards..

Good point. Kind of ironic that McNamee was with Toronto during that time period, eh?

[larryfromnextdoor]

Changed my mind.
Listened to the entire call again and Clemens did it.

Both were trying to get the other to say something incriminating and when Roger realized McNamee was too cagey he quashed the call.

Oh, he threw out a lot of "This is ridiculous" and "I didn't do this" and "someone needs to tell the truth" and "my family's getting it from all angles" but in 17 1/2 minutes he NEVER stood up and said "Mac, you lied, I didn't 'roid and you know it" (so the call is full of pretty transparent and very vague feigned indignation) and the reason I think WHY is because a direct denial and confronatiion like that would've caused Mac to go "Yes you did" which they did NOT want on the tape.

And then McNamee was desperate to get Clemens to say "I want you to say I didn't roid, go to jail for a while for lying to the feds and I'll cut you a check like Bonds and Greg Anderson." The most shocking to me was he even went SO far as to say "You want me to go jail?" reading between the lines I know EXACTLY what he meant.

Every time he asked that question "what do you want me to do" Clemens couldn't say "Man up and tell them you lied about me" because he didn't.
Instead Clemens would answer with some "ah, this is real fucked up for my family" crap.

Guilty.

red,, i cant find the 17 min version.. all of mine end half way.. any help?

[Red13JoePa]

ESPN

[larryfromnextdoor]

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... Id=2521705

thanks red.. the entire 17 min. interview..

[larryfromnextdoor]

brian had investigators come to his house and interrigate him...
he gave up rogers name and came clean..

roger is playing games on this recorded tape.
brian is complying on the tape, he suspects its a set up..

but really...how much jail time is he looking at .. he took some steroids.. .. he didnt kill anyone.. its illegal yes.. cheating yes.. broke all sorts of codes of conducts.. won under false pretenses.. but no one was personally injured... is this a FEDERAL crime?

[Rockindeano]

I don't think jail time is a probability. Clemens is worried about his legacy.

[Red13JoePa]

I don't think jail time is a probability. Clemens is worried about his legacy.

Definately.
Not going to the clink, this all about his ego.

talking about a guy who calls himself "Rocket" has 300 win shrubbery and shit.