Well I see that The New and Improved Forum.....

[Voyager]

Neither can you expect nimrodded fans hung up on a singer to be allowed to make fools of them at their place at their expense.

I completely agree. That's why my first post on this thread said that this was to be expected before even joining that forum. The reason I stay away from there because I like to be free to have my own opinion - which may not always lineup with those of the management. Let's face it - if only one type of opinion is allowed, then the place is going to reek of a religious cult where people have to embrace a certain ideology or they are banned. It's not that I disagree with Journey's choice of singer, I just don't like to be forced to think or act a certain way.

[StoneCold]

Neither can you expect nimrodded fans hung up on a singer to be allowed to make fools of them at their place at their expense.

I completely agree. That's why my first post on this thread said that this was to be expected before even joining that forum. The reason I stay away from there because I like to be free to have my own opinion - which may not always lineup with those of the management.

But isn't half the fun of posting to have peeps disagree with you? In this case, you have automatic oppositions (the mods).

The old BT was all about Augeri love so I'll be surprised if there aren't some dirty bombs thrown around. Especially since Augeri has resurfaced on youtube with his voice back.

[Red13JoePa]

Again, show us one place run by a band/team/company whatever you have that likes and allows themselves and their fans to made fun of.
Yet Journey's singled out as being some online Mussolini.

In reality I see positive threads about Augeri, perry, and JSS there all continuing, all guys they've supposedly snookered, railroaded, and hung out to dry 40 different ways from sunday and want NOTHING positive posted about because they're all part of the past.
How IS that?

[Voyager]

Neither can you expect nimrodded fans hung up on a singer to be allowed to make fools of them at their place at their expense.

I completely agree. That's why my first post on this thread said that this was to be expected before even joining that forum. The reason I stay away from there because I like to be free to have my own opinion - which may not always lineup with those of the management.

But isn't half the fun of posting to have peeps disagree with you? In this case, you have automatic oppositions (the mods).

The old BT was all about Augeri love so I'll be surprised if there aren't some dirty bombs thrown around. Especially since Augeri has resurfaced on youtube with his voice back.

Exactly. When I first joined BackTalk, people were getting kicked out and banned because they didn't want to embrace Augeri and/or were pro-Steve Perry. You had to post things that were pro-Augeri or you weren't welcome. Now that has changed, and if you are pro-Perry or pro-Augeri, you are not welcome. While I somewhat understand why they would do this, I think it would be better to try to warmup to the fans, explain their position, and allow discourse without banning people. Banning people who won't agree always creates a mob mentality, regardless if it's a forum, a cult, or a prison camp.

[Red13JoePa]

Disagreeing's one thing, gratiutous bashing and incessant whining is another.

[Voyager]

Again, show us one place run by a band/team/company whatever you have that likes and allows themselves and their fans to made fun of.

Most companies that succeed welcome criticism (mine does). If they don't, they lose customers. I can show you dozens of forums run by companies that have plenty of customer complaints on them. Granted, some of the harsher ones get removed due to profanity and slander, but not just posts that disagree with the company's decisions.

What's the difference between the USA and Russia?: One country tolerates free speech (even criticism), and the other doesn't.

I think Journey's biggest problem is in their public relations department. Instead of warming up to fans and explaining their decisions, they force them on fans and ban anyone who questions them. I posted a thread about this a while back, and many people agreed with me.

[Voyager]

Disagreeing's one thing, gratiutous bashing and incessant whining is another.

Agreed. That should not be tolerated. But I think it happens due to lack of P.R. on Journey's part. That's just my opinion - which would definitely not be welcome on the Journey forum.

[WIX]

But if you say I am a door mat be careful, I may pull the mat out from under you !

Feel free to try. I never said you were a doormat. If the shoe fits, wear it.

actually my shoes don't fit, gotta go to Fred Meyer and buy another pair..........................50% off select shoes.

[StoneCold]

Again, show us one place run by a band/team/company whatever you have that likes and allows themselves and their fans to made fun of.
Yet Journey's singled out as being some online Mussolini.

The fact that you can't read their forum unless you join is fascist so Mussolini is the perfect metaphor.

That alone steers me away from it.

In reality I see positive threads about Augeri, perry, and JSS there all continuing, all guys they've supposedly snookered, railroaded, and hung out to dry 40 different ways from sunday and want NOTHING positive posted about because they're all part of the past.
How IS that?

That's what they want. Rosy threads about everything. Hard to believe the Augeri lovers won't have a bad thing to say now that AP is in place.

It's a "king with no clothes" area. But you're absolutely right. Their money, their forum, their rules.

[Voyager]

The fact that you can't read their forum unless you join is fascist so Mussolini is the perfect metaphor.

That alone steers me away from it.

Ditto.

[Voyager]

That's what they want. Rosy threads about everything. Hard to believe the Augeri lovers won't have a bad thing to say now that AP is in place.

Oh, I'm sure they do - it just won't be allowed there.

That's okay. It just makes me that much more thankful for MR.

[Uno_up]

I couldn't sleep all night after those bastards banned me...and I didn't even talk about the band.
I'm gonna miss that yak-ative girl who gets her makeup done by the insane clown posse...valjourney...send her my love.

[Saint John]

Again, show us one place run by a band/team/company whatever you have that likes and allows themselves and their fans to made fun of.
Yet Journey's singled out as being some online Mussolini.

In reality I see positive threads about Augeri, perry, and JSS there all continuing, all guys they've supposedly snookered, railroaded, and hung out to dry 40 different ways from sunday and want NOTHING positive posted about because they're all part of the past.
How IS that?

Outstanding work.

[T-Bone]

I've said it many times on many forums... It's not always the opinion that's the problem... It's the way it's delivered.

[MartyMoffatt]

To give you an idea of just how serious they are about this....they have *not* approved my username....and I applied a week ago. Imagine that, original creator of Journey's web forums prevented from gaining access to the boards. I guess that my opinion doesn't fall in line...LOL.

I can't comment on whether or why you haven't been approved Strangegrey, as I don't know anything about that. However, I do know that the forum has already suffered numerous malicious attacks by posters intent on causing serious damage. Some of those posters are well known here, including the one who tried to cause havoc posing as Andrew. If the new forum is a little paranoid at the moment it is understandable IMO. I for one welcome differences of opinion, as long as they are expressed intelligently and with respect, but some people (not you I might add) seem to have a lot of difficulty with the 'respect' part.

Marty

[Voyager]

I own and operate a forum for musicians that gets quite a bit of traffic. People have accused me of being heavy-handed for removing posts that have slandered other forum members. The reason I do this is because if I don't, the entire thread will end up in complete chaos with the end result being good members leaving the forum. I'd rather delete the posts of a few angry members than have them ruin a good time for everybody. If you let them continually mock and slander other forum members in the name of "free speech", a gang mentality will develop with the majority of the members agreeing with the slanderous member out of fear of being slandered themselves. This will always end up with members who embrace an opinion outside the majority getting ganged-up on and bullied.

On the other hand, I don't censor posts that criticize brand names, bands, organizations, etc., as long as they are not outright slanderous and could pose legal problems for me. I have even left posts intact that criticize the way I run the forum, because I am open to seeing things differently. I understand what Andrew deals with here, and I think he does a great job. This forum is one of the most balanced forums I participate in, and I have learned a lot from the way Andrew handles disagreements.

That said, I think the Journey forum takes censorship to a degree that is not healthy, and that is why I don't even attempt to participate there. This is exactly how it was ran in the past, which ultimately caused it to be shut down for years. If others see it differently, I respect their opinion.

[Enigma869]

Again, show us one place run by a band/team/company whatever you have that likes and allows themselves and their fans to made fun of.
Yet Journey's singled out as being some online Mussolini.

Well, as someone who has been a VERY outspoken critic of Journey's "official" forum, I can tell you that I have no problem with Journey not allowing themselves, or the fans to be disrespected. It would be silly for Journey to allow anyone to go on to their official website and bash the shit out of them, day after day! That said, to allow for ZERO honest opinions, expressed in a respectful manner, is pointless! It makes zero sense to even half a forum, if every word is being legislated!

I can tell you that I NEVER disrepected any band member on that website, in any of my posts! To have a forum that presents itself as EVERY person having the same opinion, about everything, makes the place look like a cult! While I am not personally an advocate of anyone being disrespected on an internet forum, I love the fact that this place polices itself, for the most part. More importantly, it's nice to hear different opinions, and actually learn a thing or three from each other


John from Boston

[Soto All The Way]

To give you an idea of just how serious they are about this....they have *not* approved my username....and I applied a week ago. Imagine that, original creator of Journey's web forums prevented from gaining access to the boards. I guess that my opinion doesn't fall in line...LOL.

I can't comment on whether or why you haven't been approved Strangegrey, as I don't know anything about that. However, I do know that the forum has already suffered numerous malicious attacks by posters intent on causing serious damage. Some of those posters are well known here, including the one who tried to cause havoc posing as Andrew. If the new forum is a little paranoid at the moment it is understandable IMO. I for one welcome differences of opinion, as long as they are expressed intelligently and with respect, but some people (not you I might add) seem to have a lot of difficulty with the 'respect' part.

Marty

Well "Marty", I have no fucking idea how you were chosen as a "Chosen One" over at the other place, but you have to respect US too.....Jumping on somone because they think some is a dickweed because he comes and asks what Steve Perry has been doing for the pst 27 years, it fucking Hitler like. Let people speak their mond and have real discussions......It's going be, "Oh Arnel, Here's my 3 wishes for you" and "Neal, You really know how to Form a Rock Band".......Gimme a fuckinh break......That's taking away peoples freedom of speech to debate topic like that. Is that they way you want to run it, fine.

It's like I told CJ last night, everyone will be going into SUGAR SHOCK from all the happy and sweetness there for a band that is the biggest joke in the rock and roll world.....Trust me, being a mod at sweet talk, you have nothing to proud of and zero power. So, don't come here and tell us this and that. Mike and Grey started that fucking place long before your fucking ass came along and have had two BETTER forums SINCE!!!! I hope someday they will have another.

It's a disgrace there already and trust me, I will walk the line there and I will watch the SUGAR SHOCK each day.......But I will tell you, It's already a joke. It's only going to get worse when Ar-not is gone by August!!!!!

e-

[Luvsaugeri]

I think positive opinions regarding all members.....past and present.....are allowed there. Heck I signed up with the name 'luvsaugeri'. Positive comments are allowed....it's just the negativity that won't be tolerated. And I think that's the way it should be. I am obviously an Augeri fan, but I never felt the need to bash JSS in support of SA. Some people don't 'get' that.

[Voyager]

Taken from Wikipedia's definition of "mind control":

Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.

Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.

Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.

Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.

Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.

Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.

Any of these sound familiar?

[MartyMoffatt]

To give you an idea of just how serious they are about this....they have *not* approved my username....and I applied a week ago. Imagine that, original creator of Journey's web forums prevented from gaining access to the boards. I guess that my opinion doesn't fall in line...LOL.

I can't comment on whether or why you haven't been approved Strangegrey, as I don't know anything about that. However, I do know that the forum has already suffered numerous malicious attacks by posters intent on causing serious damage. Some of those posters are well known here, including the one who tried to cause havoc posing as Andrew. If the new forum is a little paranoid at the moment it is understandable IMO. I for one welcome differences of opinion, as long as they are expressed intelligently and with respect, but some people (not you I might add) seem to have a lot of difficulty with the 'respect' part.

Marty

Well "Marty", I have no fucking idea how you were chosen as a "Chosen One" over at the other place, but you have to respect US too.....Jumping on somone because they think some is a dickweed because he comes and asks what Steve Perry has been doing for the pst 27 years, it fucking Hitler like. Let people speak their mond and have real discussions......It's going be, "Oh Arnel, Here's my 3 wishes for you" and "Neal, You really know how to Form a Rock Band".......Gimme a fuckinh break......That's taking away peoples freedom of speech to debate topic like that. Is that they way you want to run it, fine.

It's like I told CJ last night, everyone will be going into SUGAR SHOCK from all the happy and sweetness there for a band that is the biggest joke in the rock and roll world.....Trust me, being a mod at sweet talk, you have nothing to proud of and zero power. So, don't come here and tell us this and that. Mike and Grey started that fucking place long before your fucking ass came along and have had two BETTER forums SINCE!!!! I hope someday they will have another.

It's a disgrace there already and trust me, I will walk the line there and I will watch the SUGAR SHOCK each day.......But I will tell you, It's already a joke. It's only going to get worse when Ar-not is gone by August!!!!!

e-

But in your world opinions only count if they're your opinions and every other word is an expletive, eh Ed?

Moderating on a forum isn't about wielding power. I have very little and don't want any more. By the same token, participating in a forum isn't just about one upmanship, wisecracks, vulgarity and confrontation. The majority of the 800 or so members who've registered on the Journey forum so far are happily getting on with each other. It is possible to have a conversation without eyeball to eyeball agression - and without the sugar shock you hate so much.

I respect Strangegrey's opinions, whether I agree with them or not. Unfortunately I can't say the same for yours because they seem to be based purely on hatred masquerading under the illusion of 'freedom of speech'.

Marty

[Sarah]

Seriously, why get so high strung over a forum. I guess if they really hated the way BT was run they wouldn't have brought back a message board with the same administration. Apparently this is how they want their image.

[Voyager]

Seriously, why get so high strung over a forum. I guess if they really hated the way BT was run they wouldn't have brought back a message board with the same administration. Apparently this is how they want their image.

They just don't like the idea of people being able to speak their minds on forums like this one - so they created a forum where they can control their image and what is being said about them. That seems pretty obvious to me.

[Soto All The Way]

Seriously, why get so high strung over a forum. I guess if they really hated the way BT was run they wouldn't have brought back a message board with the same administration. Apparently this is how they want their image.

They just don't like the idea of people being able to speak their minds on forums like this one - so they created a forum where they can control their image and what is being said about them. That seems pretty obvious to me.

U R right and I know that I am better than them, are more successful and have a great life that I am very proud of. I have concrete accomplishments like championship rings, pictures and thank you's from kids, parents and other fine folks for all I do in the community...U R right. It's only a forum and I'm pretty much done with them. I think Ar-Not is a joke. Neal is a perverted asshole and Jon is yes-man that has his balls on Neal's mantel. I wish Deen and Ross the best of luck and hope they come out OK....See you at the State Fairs and Rib Cook offs...They should be free right. Or are they something like 10.00 for three or four bands.......

e-

[strangegrey]

To give you an idea of just how serious they are about this....they have *not* approved my username....and I applied a week ago. Imagine that, original creator of Journey's web forums prevented from gaining access to the boards. I guess that my opinion doesn't fall in line...LOL.

I can't comment on whether or why you haven't been approved Strangegrey, as I don't know anything about that. However, I do know that the forum has already suffered numerous malicious attacks by posters intent on causing serious damage. Some of those posters are well known here, including the one who tried to cause havoc posing as Andrew. If the new forum is a little paranoid at the moment it is understandable IMO. I for one welcome differences of opinion, as long as they are expressed intelligently and with respect, but some people (not you I might add) seem to have a lot of difficulty with the 'respect' part.

Marty

Marty, eh, where do I begin...Your malicious attacks, I hate to say, wont stop. Journey's made some seriously boneheaded mistakes. The band (and web mgmt over there) avoided having to deal with the last idiotic move by conveniently shutting down the forum. To expect that people wouldn't bother with launching a full on spread of scuds (even after all this time) into the place is, well, naive. (not saying you are, just stating a generality)

Now having said that, I've stayed away from doing such a thing. Scrutinizing a web forum to prevent specific users is literally impossible these days. obtaining email addresses and IP addresses to post from is dreadfully simple. I could apply to the journey website with a rather valid looking email, get approved and post Derek Jeter and make the IP address look like it came right from Yankee Stadium. It's not that hard these days. I've chosen to stay away from this sorta activity, because by doing so, I would be no better than that piece of shit Suzie, or arnel's manager...and I'm not going to sink to that level.

So really, what you get is me submitting my name to the website and whether I get approved is yet to be seen. However, given the fact that I literally created back talk. Hell, I coined the fucking phrase....it stings a little that I wouldn't be at least given the opportunity to come in and say hi. I guess it's too much to trust that i would follow the rules. All in all, its fucking low given what I did for Journey's online presence...But watching 2 singers get buttfucked by this band...I shouldn't expect anything more.

[strangegrey]

Seriously, why get so high strung over a forum. I guess if they really hated the way BT was run they wouldn't have brought back a message board with the same administration. Apparently this is how they want their image.

Honestly, I think Myles and CJ made a case to Schlong and A$$off....and in the end convinced them. I'd bet my left testicle that if it were solely up to Cain and Schon, that Back Talk would've been a long memory from as far back as 2003.

[Sarah]

Honestly, I think Myles and CJ made a case to Schlong and A$$off....and in the end convinced them. I'd bet my left testicle that if it were solely up to Cain and Schon, that Back Talk would've been a long memory from as far back as 2003.

I think you're right. But still, it's their bad. Let them take the fall instead of fighting tooth and nail to change that forum.

[Deb]

LOL, I tried to register and I came up as banned! I thought...what?? Me? After an email though, found out it wasn't me banned, it is any "hotmail", "yahoo" and "msn" emails, as those can be abused. Fair enough. I have registered but probably won't post much, as most of my Journey enjoyment is in the past now.

Disagreeing's one thing, gratiutous bashing and incessant whining is another.

I've said it many times on many forums... It's not always the opinion that's the problem... It's the way it's delivered.

Couldn't agree more.

Well, as someone who has been a VERY outspoken critic of Journey's "official" forum...

John, you? outspoken about BT?!?! J/K

[jrnyval]

I couldn't sleep all night after those bastards banned me...and I didn't even talk about the band.
I'm gonna miss that yak-ative girl who gets her makeup done by the insane clown posse...valjourney...send her my love.

I'm sorry, do I know you? Do you know me? Have you ever seen me besides in my sig over there? Do you even know which one is ME?? Get a clue. If you childish moronic idiots have a problem with how many posts I have over there, I highly recommend not going over there if it offends you for some stupid idiotic reason.

I can't believe the stupidity of the majority of the people on this message board. A bunch of spoiled rotten infants that whine if they don't get their way, and then they have to tear in to someone that has done NOTHING to them personally, attack them on how many posts they have and how they wear their makeup?? Grow the fuck up, really.

[Uno_up]

I couldn't sleep all night after those bastards banned me...and I didn't even talk about the band.
I'm gonna miss that yak-ative girl who gets her makeup done by the insane clown posse...valjourney...send her my love.

I'm sorry, do I know you? Do you know me? Have you ever seen me besides in my sig over there? Do you even know which one is ME?? Get a clue. If you childish moronic idiots have a problem with how many posts I have over there, I highly recommend not going over there if it offends you for some stupid idiotic reason.

I can't believe the stupidity of the majority of the people on this message board. A bunch of spoiled rotten infants that whine if they don't get their way, and then they have to tear in to someone that has done NOTHING to them personally, attack them on how many posts they have and how they wear their makeup?? Grow the fuck up, really.

You're right...I'm strolling over to my time-out chair right now.

The only thing I will say is to not label the entire (or majority of the) board due to a couple of comments. Though I have yet to meet anyone here personally (that will change this summer), there is a first-class vibe going on.