OT: Dem Ohio Debate

[lights1961]

Fuck off John.

Why is she detestable? I would like you to give me a reason. Because she wants universal health care? Because she wants the troops home? Because she works for the impovershed and elderly?

The truly detestable human beings are Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coultergeist, and Cunningham.

As I've told you before Dean, I'm not into partisan politics. I thought Clinton was a great president and also thought Reagan was a great president. I've NEVER cared which political party a particular candidate is affiliated with, because I'm affiliated with neither! Hillary simply makes my skin crawl, and always has. I don't, and never have viewed Hillary as a genuine person, and believe the status she has attained in life has a direct correlation to William Jefferson Clinton! There is nothing wrong with universal health care. Frankly, it's long overdue in this country. Having said that, my home state of Massachusetts has universal health care, as a direct result of Mitt Romney, and I wasn't voting for him either!

As for the Ringling Brothers Circus that is Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheney, you're preaching to the choir. This is easily the worst administration my eyes have ever witnessed. If this guy were a CEO and ran a company's stock into the ground the way he has run our country into the ground, he would have been removed a VERY long time ago!


John from Boston

[RedWingFan]

Why do minorities deserve special treatment? They are equals....nobody deserves special treatment. You lefty loons start getting guilty for no reason.

Ever heard of racism?

You know that quote you ALWAYS throw out in the abortion debate, "You can't legislate morality?"
That term was first used back during the civil rights era. The true meaning of it is you can pass all the civil rights laws you want, but you can't change the heart of a racist. It wasn't til much later Democrats twisted it for the abortion debate. It was Democrats who were against intergration. Conservatives are all for equal opportunity, what we are against is enforced equality, through quotas..etc...
Hillary and her liberal friends want to ENFORCE equality, she wants to ENFORCE universal health care. Freedom and liberty be damned. What do you think about that Dean?

[Rockindeano]

You know that quote you ALWAYS throw out in the abortion debate, "You can't legislate morality?"

You can't legislate personal morality, but you damned sure can enact laws to ensure equal opportunity. Fuck you stupid Cons. What the fuck is wrong with you?

I have lost a prospective job once to a black woman. I was pissed. I later got a job where I overheard my boss say, after interviewing a well presented black man, "I am not hiring a fucking nigger." I was blown away. I regret staying on at that company.

That kind of talk happens a million times a day here in the US. Take a ride down to the South. Racism is so prevelent there, it is basically accepted. The ignorance and arrogance is appalling. And while the South is the worst place I have ever witnessed it, it is all over the USA.

[memberzonly]

That kind of talk happens a million times a day here in the US. Take a ride down to the South. Racism is so prevelent there, it is basically accepted. The ignorance and arrogance is appalling. And while the South is the worst place I have ever witnessed it, it is all over the USA.

Dean, your quote implies racism flows in one direction, caucasian to everyone non-caucasian. If I am incorrect in my assessment, I apologize. If not, that statement was pretty weak.

[RedWingFan]

You know that quote you ALWAYS throw out in the abortion debate, "You can't legislate morality?"

You can't legislate personal morality, but you damned sure can enact laws to ensure equal opportunity. Fuck you stupid Cons. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Stupid? Your post is exactly what my post stated. Read it again. You can pass equal opportunity laws for fair hiring, housing..etc... You CAN NOT legislate what one feels in their heart or mind, can you Dean? Or maybe Hillary could?
Stupidity is right on. But it does not live in the house of conservatism.

[Rockindeano]

I have NO problem with Affirmative Action. None at all. It is a necessary evil.

I would rather be taxed and overlooked in this country if it means we as a nation can be stronger in the end. That's just me. You won't hear complain about taxation. I would rather willingly give to help the poorer than I, rather than collect all my coveted toys. Again, just my opinion.

This nation needs some serious medicine and be it Obama or Clinton, they need to give it to us. Repeal the tax cuts, and shrink the divide between middle class and high bracket folks. There is two America's. Yes, Edwards is right about this. I want one America. One America is stronger than a dived, two America's.

Flame away.

[Rockindeano]

Well you need to have a talk with Albert Gore Sr., Robert Byrd and Clintons buddy William Fulbright, Ernest Hollings, Orvall Fabus, Ross Burnett, John Patterson et al....

All good men.

You need to STOP talking to George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh and Cunningham.

Oh and ask Dick if he could find his mysteriously lost emails. Yet another scandal.

[Rockindeano]

Oh yes, I am 100% for Universal Health Care.

In my opinion, it should be a right of every American.

[Eric]

Oh yes, I am 100% for Universal Health Care.

In my opinion, it should be a right of every American.

300 million Americans multiplied by $7,000 a year = 2 Trillion

You still for it? How will you pay for it? What about those who don't want it? What will 20% sales tax do to the economy?

Lets see you answer these. Its very idealistic and rosey to say these types of things...but it aint realistic.

[Rockindeano]

Oh yes, I am 100% for Universal Health Care.

In my opinion, it should be a right of every American.

300 million Americans multiplied by $7,000 a year = 2 Trillion

You still for it? How will you pay for it? What about those who don't want it? What will 20% sales tax do to the economy?

Lets see you answer these. Its very idealistic and rosey to say these types of things...but it aint realistic.

Firstly, there is enough money for it.

Your numbers are way off, and please don't give some conservative bullshit link because I never click on them anyhow.

Oh, shit! I got an idea on how to pay for it!
How about we end the FUCKING WAR!

At 275 Million dollars a day, let's see, using head math, that's a trillion bucks a year on this needless bullshit war.

[RedWingFan]

I have NO problem with Affirmative Action. None at all. It is a necessary evil.

I would rather be taxed and overlooked in this country if it means we as a nation can be stronger in the end. That's just me. You won't hear complain about taxation. I would rather willingly give to help the poorer than I, rather than collect all my coveted toys. Again, just my opinion.

This nation needs some serious medicine and be it Obama or Clinton, they need to give it to us. Repeal the tax cuts, and shrink the divide between middle class and high bracket folks. There is two America's. Yes, Edwards is right about this. I want one America. One America is stronger than a dived, two America's.

Flame away.

Dean, you don't remember this exchange?

Ok Sherrie, you don't have to say it, I will.

Fuck the Black Community. Fuck the Black music awards. Fuck Miss Black USA. Fuck the United Negro College Fund. Fuck the Black Coaches association. Fuck all of them.

I am all for unity and the American way. Could you imagine the outrage if there was a Miss White USA?

There is a thing called reverse racism. Jess Jackson and Al Sharpton are fucking racists. These slack fucks protest everything. As long as there a black thing involved, they are protesting. Martin Luther King would be so embarrassed by these assholes.

I'm a strong advocate for a colourless America. However, these Blacks (listed above)want to play the race card at every turn.

...and I have been overlooked for a job because I wasn't black.

Dude, It's your party that caters to their black caucus!!!! It was your boy Al Gore who got in Bush's face and asked him repeatedly, "Do you support quotas" during the debates in 2000.So stop your bitching about getting overlooked for a job cuz you're white. You vote for it, deal with it and quit your bitching

Yeah, I know. I hate that part of my party, but it's no worse than your party claiming to be the party of God.

That's ridiculous.

[Enigma869]

300 million Americans multiplied by $7,000 a year = 2 Trillion

You still for it? How will you pay for it? What about those who don't want it? What will 20% sales tax do to the economy?

Lets see you answer these. Its very idealistic and rosey to say these types of things...but it aint realistic.

I have an idea...How about we stop invading other countries that we have ZERO business being in! I'm thinking the money we've spent on this wasted invasion would pay for healthcare for quite some time in this country. Making excuses about why universal healthcare can't happen is complete bullshit! The reality is that Canada has universal health care and somehow manages to pay for it, and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has a form of universal health carel, and finds a way to pay for it. I can assure you that the government on EVERY level, whether it's state or federal, pisses away more money, on FAR less important issues, than ensuring every American has healthcare!

People who simply babble about universal healthcare not being a viable option in this country need to really look at just how fucked up the healthcare system is in this country! This is the only country that has health insurance attached to the job you work. Also, this country allows drug companies to gouge consumers, beyond belief! If there were universal health care in this country, its cost would drop, exponentially, because if the government were subsidizing the coverage, they would NEVER allow drug companies to charge four times the price for the same medicine in the U.S. than what they charge in Canada!


John from Boston

[Eric]

Oh yes, I am 100% for Universal Health Care.

In my opinion, it should be a right of every American.

300 million Americans multiplied by $7,000 a year = 2 Trillion

You still for it? How will you pay for it? What about those who don't want it? What will 20% sales tax do to the economy?

Lets see you answer these. Its very idealistic and rosey to say these types of things...but it aint realistic.

Firstly, there is enough money for it.

Your numbers are way off, and please don't give some conservative bullshit link because I never click on them anyhow.

Oh, shit! I got an idea on how to pay for it!
How about we end the FUCKING WAR!

At 275 Million dollars a day, let's see, using head math, that's a trillion bucks a year on this needless bullshit war.

Here is a very NOT conservative link to average health cost per person...do some research Dean-O.
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

And...as with everything else....it would INCREASE if the Government took over...because..well....the Government is an inefficent machine.

Next..why don't you tell me how great Social Security is? Except, for anyone under 35...we'll spend a lifetime contributing for nothing. LBJ and JIMMA fucked that up good.


275 Million a day?????

[Rockindeano]

No RWF. Perhaps I didn't specifically explain myself.

I dislike immensely, the far left, which includes the black faction that is Jesse and Al. Those assholes take advantage of being black, and they could care less about black strides and equal access.

I hope that explains it well enough for ya.

[RedWingFan]

No RWF. Perhaps I didn't specifically explain myself.

I dislike immensely, the far left, which includes the black faction that is Jesse and Al. Those assholes take advantage of being black, and they could care less about black strides and equal access.

I hope that explains it well enough for ya.

Whatever

[Eric]

300 million Americans multiplied by $7,000 a year = 2 Trillion

You still for it? How will you pay for it? What about those who don't want it? What will 20% sales tax do to the economy?

Lets see you answer these. Its very idealistic and rosey to say these types of things...but it aint realistic.

I have an idea...How about we stop invading other countries that we have ZERO business being in! I'm thinking the money we've spent on this wasted invasion would pay for healthcare for quite some time in this country. Making excuses about why universal healthcare can't happen is complete bullshit! The reality is that Canada has universal health care and somehow manages to pay for it, and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has a form of universal health carel, and finds a way to pay for it. I can assure you that the government on EVERY level, whether it's state or federal, pisses away more money, on FAR less important issues, than ensuring every American has healthcare!

People who simply babble about universal healthcare not being a viable option in this country need to really look at just how fucked up the healthcare system is in this country! This is the only country that has health insurance attached to the job you work. Also, this country allows drug companies to gouge consumers, beyond belief! If there were universal health care in this country, its cost would drop, exponentially, because if the government were subsidizing the coverage, they would NEVER allow drug companies to charge four times the price for the same medicine in the U.S. than what they charge in Canada!

John from Boston

2 trillion is more than Iraq so far in total..and that would be what it cost EVERY YEAR
Canada has 30 million folks..we have 300 million.
Canada's economy is not nearly as robust as ours (GST..HOOOOOOOOOOH)
My friends in Southern Ontario (I live in Western NY) all make fun of their healthcare and hope they NEVER fucking get sick
Kids, combat vets and handicapped people who otherwise cannot care for themselves should be guaranteed health care. Other people need to take care of themselves.

[Rockindeano]

Both Hillary and Obama have said there is enough money to do Health care right. That's good enough for me.

I am not about to go read the OMB or the CBO and cite fucking sources ith you all.

Hey, I am happy you are Cons and feel good about it. I am happy with my stance on things. Luckily for me, the majority of the nation will be voting alongside my ideals and not yours.

Like I said, you had your eight years of fun and look how well our nation is doing? Imagine, a nation that is doing so well is about to elect Hillary Clinton or a Black guy; the very people your party doesn't like, are going to get elected in an overwhelming landslide.

Look in the mirror and not on Fox News boys. There is more to saying, rah rah, let's bomb them, and Old Glory! You all will be out of power for some time.

End The War
Repeal Tax Cuts, especially for the wealthy
Insure every American.

You better be sure you don't lose too many seats in Congress, or you all are going to have fucking strokes!

[Eric]

Both Hillary and Obama have said there is enough money to do Health care right. That's good enough for me.

WOWZA...you're just Mr. Research!

[Eric]

I oppose the idea that America should offer Universal healthcare like Canada, where approximately 270 million fewer people live and recent journal articles and the CBC have cited Canadians growing dissatisfied with their health care (long waits being the prominent issue).

A recent USA today article estimates that it now costs an annual average of over $7,000 to insure someone in this country. Multiplied by 300 million people the Government would need over 2 TRILLION dollars more per year. I don’t believe the government could manage health care more efficiently or that employers or individuals would have more money in their pockets due to inevitable and significant tax increases.

Approximately one-third of the uninsured have household incomes of over $50,000. For some, the cost is too much for their situation, but others can afford and just choose not to. The Government shouldn't force a decision.

I feel a better approach is to give individuals more choices so they can better target their needs so they can become more aggressive in figuring out how to save healthcare dollars. Too many people think they need more than they do, over-insure themselves, and generally let their employers worry about it. Others aren’t proactive enough in their own choices they make regarding a healthy lifestyle.


Below is my 6-point Health Care plan:

Offer more product - Examples include an emergency plan with low premiums and plans targeted to younger folks where they would have lower premiums but no prescription or well visit coverage. Plans such as these would make available affordable health insurance for those whose employers don't provide it for them and for those with coverage lapses while changing jobs.

Further breakdown of family plans – A family with 6 kids should pay more than a family with 1 kid. I propose it should be: single, married, married+1, married2-3, married4-5, married6+.

Health Investment Accounts - Essentially, this would be akin to providing health insurance options similar to different types of life insurance options. This account could grow like a retirement account, and provide a safety net for people in their elderly years.

Eliminate FREE for the poor - FREE healthcare should be available ONLY for poor KIDS, combat veterans and the severely disabled.

Mandatory healthy living - If you are obese and continue to gain weight through poor diet and lack of exercise, then you lose coverage on issues that are affected through your bad decisions.

Less usage of the ER – Our ER’s are over-crowded. Primary care physicians and after-hour clinics are more appropriate places to visit for non-emergency care. This is an opportunity for private enterprise to step in.

[Rockindeano]

You must be fucking joking.

[Rockindeano]

Both Hillary and Obama have said there is enough money to do Health care right. That's good enough for me.

WOWZA...you're just Mr. Research!

Um, look. She has, as well as he has, huge staffers who have already done the research. Like I said, I am not about to download, let alone read, the Goddamned OMB and CBO papers for health care costs.

[Rockindeano]

Both Hillary and Obama have said there is enough money to do Health care right. That's good enough for me.

Dude, a little advice. Stock up an HSA for you and family. Get back to us when it take 3 weeks to have your kids ear infection looked at and hope it hasn't become a cranial infection.

And let me tell you. I lived in Canada, and their health care is by far and away, the best in the world. I don't give a shit, if you had a friend, who heard it from who knew someone, who had Canadian HC. If you haven't experienced it, you have no validity discussing it.

The US ranks dead fucking last, and no I am not digging up the Yahoo link, in the Western civilized world, in health care.

Eric, your 6 point plan is about as accurate as Ray Charles playing darts in the dark.

[Eric]

Eric, your 6 point plan is about as accurate as Ray Charles playing darts in the dark.

Thats funny, because I got a lot of kudos for it last year when it was published...from both sides of the aisle.

You did research on Tapegate, but not this. Pfffff. You fucking sound like Rich during Tapegate!

[RedWingFan]

And let me tell you. I lived in Canada, and their health care is by far and away, the best in the world. I don't give a shit, if you had a friend, who heard it from who knew someone, who had Canadian HC. If you haven't experienced it, you have no validity discussing it.

The US ranks dead fucking last, and no I am not digging up the Yahoo link, in the Western civilized world, in health care.

Yeah, how do they pay for it? We have platoons that are larger than their entire army.

Eric, your 6 point plan is about as accurate as Ray Charles playing darts in the dark.

What difference does it make if he's in the dark or not?

[conversationpc]

If Canada's healthcare system is so great, why do so many of them still come here to receive treatment? Don't bother telling me that it isn't true. I spent most of my life working in the western part of New York and Canadians from Ontario, specifically the Toronto area, were coming down into the States to receive health treatment because they had to wait so long for it in their own country.

[Rockindeano]

If Canada's healthcare system is so great, why do so many of them still come here to receive treatment? Don't bother telling me that it isn't true. I spent most of my life working in the western part of New York and Canadians from Ontario, specifically the Toronto area, were coming down into the States to receive health treatment because they had to wait so long for it in their own country.

It's not true. Sure some don't want to wait for cosmetic surgery.

On the other hand, Americans are going to Canada in droves for affordable drugs.

US HC sucks, period. Why, because not all have access, and last time I checked, we were all supposed to be equals. Sad.

I wish Sherrie would come in here, because frankly, I don't have the energy to do this.

[Enigma869]

If Canada's healthcare system is so great, why do so many of them still come here to receive treatment?

Nobody disputes that we have the best doctors on the planet, which usually translates into a stronger healthcare system. I can tell you this...If they're coming here for treatment, they're not staying to fill their prescriptions, because it's FAR cheaper to fill ANY prescription in their own country! I personally never suggested that Canada had the best healthcare system in the world. I simply cited them as an example of an industrialized nation that provides healthcare to all of its citizens. I honestly don't know enough about the Canadian system to comment on whether it's good, bad, or ugly! What I do know is that it proves to me that it can be done.


John from Boston

[RedWingFan]

It's not true. Sure some don't want to wait for cosmetic surgery.

Canadians flock to Cleveland to have hip replacements rather than deal with the pain waiting there.

On the other hand, Americans are going to Canada in droves for affordable drugs.

That's because they don't do the R&D on them. Our evil pharmaceudical industry spends to invent these drugs then have the gall to charge the cost to invent them plus some profit.

US HC sucks, period.

It's definetly not perfect, but it is better than any other.

I wish Sherrie would come in here, because frankly, I don't have the energy to do this.

I can fill in for her. Here.
"Why is our government paying corporations to take our jobs overseas?"
There Dean, you happy?

[Rockindeano]

Canadians flock to Cleveland to have hip replacements rather than deal with the pain waiting there.

Bullshit. No one flocks to Cleveland for anything.

That's because they don't do the R&D on them. Our evil pharmaceudical industry spends to invent these drugs then have the gall to charge the cost to invent them plus some profit.

That is completely false. You think everything comes from the US don't you? Canada makes it's fair share of drugs. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

It's definetly not perfect, but it is better than any other.

Not even close. Hell, Cuba ranks higher than the US.

[RedWingFan]

Not even close. Hell, Cuba ranks higher than the US.

Is that why when Cuban doctors screwed up El Presidente Castro's crap sack, he had to fly overseas to have it done right? Seriously, get off the Michael "It's just satire" Moore train. Dude's a liar, and he's only aiding you in sounding ignorant.