Had they waited for Perry after TBF ...

[Saint John]

Coming to Cleveland Prog??? If so...you better not drink or I will mercilessly trash you here on MR for being "drunk somewhere".

I'm coming, Stu, and you are more than welcome to "mercilessly trash" me for being hammered. I'm sure it will be warranted!!! And you're right, even though I thought Ross was a bit tipsy in Vegas he was the same crazy/funny guy he's always been. He was also very polite and even bought me a drink.

[whirlwind]

No. Because they'd still be waiting.

Dude was done apparently. He'd have come back by now had he wanted to.

Q...."So the Journey thing is over, right?"



A...."The divorce is final. Back when that happened, it was January of 1998. October is when I had the hip replacement, but January is when I got the ultimatum that they had been checking out other singers. That made it pretty personal"





I don't think that he was done. He said that he didn't take to ultimatums and that "There is no going back" if they went on without him.
I always thought that, like most bands, they would get back on track with a time out every few years, to take a breather.They should have waited. He was worth waiting for.


We would have had albums that would have had them in the R&R HOF, years ago. This I believe.

[Rhiannon]

No. Because they'd still be waiting.

Dude was done apparently. He'd have come back by now had he wanted to.

I don't think that he was done. He said that he didn't take to ultimatums and that "There is no going back" if they went on without him.
I always thought that, like most bands, they would get back on track with a time out every few years, to take a breather.They should have waited. He was worth waiting for.


We would have had albums that would have had them in the R&R HOF, years ago. This I believe.

He was done. Unless you have an album to showcase what he's done since 1996, that the rest of us overlooked somehow.

The rest was just convenient timing and proper word choice.

[RossValoryRocks]

Coming to Cleveland Prog??? If so...you better not drink or I will mercilessly trash you here on MR for being "drunk somewhere".

I'm coming, Stu, and you are more than welcome to "mercilessly trash" me for being hammered. I'm sure it will be warranted!!! And you're right, even though I thought Ross was a bit tipsy in Vegas he was the same crazy/funny guy he's always been. He was also very polite and even bought me a drink.

I know...and I know... and yes...I know (You will be there, I will do so, and I will be joining you in the being drunk somewhere part!)

[ProgRocker53]

Ross would be drunk somewhere,

Oh people who live in glass houses and all that.

Ross is very cool, and I have yet to see him drunk, and I know I have spent more time around him than you have.

Coming to Cleveland Prog??? If so...you better not drink or I will mercilessly trash you here on MR for being "drunk somewhere".

I know he is cool man, but I've heard lots of people say "Ross loves to party," so, yanno.

It was in no way meant to be a judgmental post at all, I just couldn't think of anything funny for Ross so just tossed that one out randomly.

Apologies are available to all those offended.

making sure apology is seen on page 2

[Rhiannon]

making sure apology is seen on page 2

Chill. No worries. Go play in the sunshine. It's summertime, kiddo.

[Don]

Ross would be drunk somewhere,

Oh people who live in glass houses and all that.

Ross is very cool, and I have yet to see him drunk, and I know I have spent more time around him than you have.

Coming to Cleveland Prog??? If so...you better not drink or I will mercilessly trash you here on MR for being "drunk somewhere".

I know he is cool man, but I've heard lots of people say "Ross loves to party," so, yanno.

It was in no way meant to be a judgmental post at all, I just couldn't think of anything funny for Ross so just tossed that one out randomly.

Apologies are available to all those offended.

making sure apology is seen on page 2

You could always start a new "Ross isn't a drunk" thread. We're already in Journey's shithouse anyway.

[finalfight]

making sure apology is seen on page 2

Chill. No worries. Go play in the sunshine. It's summertime, kiddo.

Not in the bloody UK it 'aint!

[RobbieG]

Ross would be drunk somewhere,

Oh people who live in glass houses and all that.

Ross is very cool, and I have yet to see him drunk, and I know I have spent more time around him than you have.

Coming to Cleveland Prog??? If so...you better not drink or I will mercilessly trash you here on MR for being "drunk somewhere".

I know he is cool man, but I've heard lots of people say "Ross loves to party," so, yanno.

It was in no way meant to be a judgmental post at all, I just couldn't think of anything funny for Ross so just tossed that one out randomly.

Apologies are available to all those offended.

Just curious how old are you Prog? If you love to party does not mean you are going to get drunk, jusy means having fun. Should have not tossed that out Prog.

[Don]

Poor PROG

[annie89509]

.... I don't know .... nobody's psyche ... nobody can claim to have tunnel vision ... we can only speculate ... and I say it can go either way.

True, SP hasn't done anything significant since I Stand Alone, which I'm not sure even qualifies as it was recorded in ‘98, the same year as the "divorce." But, let's say he was genuinely hurt over the entire TBF tour fiasco and breakup mess. Whether it was his voice or his hip, either way, he was not up to commiting. Does any one of us not believe there was tremendous, agonizing pressure placed on him to tour after a 10-yr Journey hiatus? During the TBF promotional rounds, Neal was absolutely giddy when asked about their "upcoming" tour and planning to "being out there for 2 years." At the time, SP was 47 yrs old, soon to be 48! How is his voice going to hold up, singing that catalog night after night for god knows how long?

A few long-time Journey fans have speculated on these forums that there was talk of SP recording albums in the studio and having another singer tour with the band. Well, this would work, except Neal/Jon jumped the gun by specifically looking for a "lead singer replacement" to take over completely.

During the ROR tour, RandyJ and MikeB were known as "hired guns." Journey, for all stated purposes, was a 3-man group consisted of SP/NS/JC. Why couldn't SA have been a hired gun until SP's health improved (or until he's runned out of excuses)? SP has said, in more than a few interviews, that it was never his intent to leave Journey. It was the "ultimatum" that forced his hand.

How we accept the chain of events, as it played out, depends on which side of the fan fence you're on, I guess.

[Saint John]

I think the more important question that this thread didn't ask is "Would they have toured?" And we all know that answer is "No fucking way!" They made the right decision by moving on. They initially waited for the fucking guy for 8 years (86-94) only to see him come back and tour with someone else!!! Then he destroys their "someone else" lineup (Rolie and Chalfant) only to do what he contractually had to do (record) and leave them sitting in a circle with their dicks in their hands...again. Real classy fucking guy.

[finalfight]

I think the more important question that this thread didn't ask is "Would they have toured?" And we all know that answer is "No fucking way!" They made the right decision by moving on. They initially waited for the fucking guy for 8 years (86-94) only to see him come back and tour with someone else!!! Then he destroys their "someone else" lineup (Rolie and Chalfant) only to do what he contractually had to do (record) and leave them sitting in a circle with their dicks in their hands...again. Real classy fucking guy.

I would have killed (figuratively speaking of course) to see the Chalfant/Rolie lineup.

[jrnyman28]

Whether it was his voice or his hip, either way, he was not up to commiting. Does any one of us not believe there was tremendous, agonizing pressure placed on him to tour after a 10-yr Journey hiatus?

The only problem with your scenario is that I am sure he KNEW about the expectations upon returning to Journey. He never should have signed on if he wasn't absolutely sure he could endure the rigors of the tour. If Neal was talking about a 2 year tour than I am sure that was already on the table when the contracts were signed...

[brywool]

They'd still be waiting. Definitely.

The real question- Had Neal not done his solo album with Jan Hammer, would Perry have left? He's always cited that and then the Schon and Hammer album as his impetus to 'do one'. I wonder if Neal hadn't done this, would Perry have done his? I somehow think that Perry was always destined to do solo albums. Especially after Phil Collins had done his and that started to become a trend with singers.

Food for thought.

(God, I said Phil Collins and Steve Perry in the same post- Oy!)

[RossValoryRocks]

I think the more important question that this thread didn't ask is "Would they have toured?" And we all know that answer is "No fucking way!" They made the right decision by moving on. They initially waited for the fucking guy for 8 years (86-94) only to see him come back and tour with someone else!!! Then he destroys their "someone else" lineup (Rolie and Chalfant) only to do what he contractually had to do (record) and leave them sitting in a circle with their dicks in their hands...again. Real classy fucking guy.

I have a much different take on Steve Perry than I used to have. I can't claim to know why he did what he did or if I really understand it, but I have seen many sides of Steve Perry and can only say he is very complex and we are trying to put together a scenario with out ALL of the info...we have a lot...but not all...and I also can tell you this...he showed me something last year in himself (it's not my story to tell) that makes me believe the man is as classy as they come.

[Saint John]

I think the more important question that this thread didn't ask is "Would they have toured?" And we all know that answer is "No fucking way!" They made the right decision by moving on. They initially waited for the fucking guy for 8 years (86-94) only to see him come back and tour with someone else!!! Then he destroys their "someone else" lineup (Rolie and Chalfant) only to do what he contractually had to do (record) and leave them sitting in a circle with their dicks in their hands...again. Real classy fucking guy.

I have a much different take on Steve Perry than I used to have. I can't claim to know why he did what he did or if I really understand it, but I have seen many sides of Steve Perry and can only say he is very complex and we are trying to put together a scenario with out ALL of the info...we have a lot...but not all...and I also can tell you this...he showed me something last year in himself (it's not my story to tell) that makes me believe the man is as classy as they come.

Simply not worth it. I must be loyal to my sig. Thanks Annie!

[SF-Dano]

No. Because they'd still be waiting.

Dude was done apparently. He'd have come back by now had he wanted to.

I don't think that he was done. He said that he didn't take to ultimatums and that "There is no going back" if they went on without him.
I always thought that, like most bands, they would get back on track with a time out every few years, to take a breather.They should have waited. He was worth waiting for.


We would have had albums that would have had them in the R&R HOF, years ago. This I believe.

[whirlwind]

No. Because they'd still be waiting.

Dude was done apparently. He'd have come back by now had he wanted to.

I don't think that he was done. He said that he didn't take to ultimatums and that "There is no going back" if they went on without him.
I always thought that, like most bands, they would get back on track with a time out every few years, to take a breather.They should have waited. He was worth waiting for.


We would have had albums that would have had them in the R&R HOF, years ago. This I believe.

Hey, isn't this in your sig, lol?

Realize your fantasy.......You live the dream
With every step you take......"

[annie89509]

Whether it was his voice or his hip, either way, he was not up to commiting. Does any one of us not believe there was tremendous, agonizing pressure placed on him to tour after a 10-yr Journey hiatus?

The only problem with your scenario is that I am sure he KNEW about the expectations upon returning to Journey. He never should have signed on if he wasn't absolutely sure he could endure the rigors of the tour. If Neal was talking about a 2 year tour than I am sure that was already on the table when the contracts were signed...

SaintJohn , you need to practice what you preach on your sig.

J28, I think the lure to re-form Journey was just too much to turn his back on. Every Journey fan worth his salt knows how ROR ended. For SP, he had already apologized to his bandmates in the song on fTLOSM. Everybody was clamoring for a reunion (band reunions were the norm in the early 90's). As the announcer said in BTM show, there was no goodbye, no farewell to the fans, ROR tour just ended all of a sudden, Journey dropped out of people's consciousness.
I think he wanted that back, as did all the rest of the Journey kingdom.

We know how Neal talks (and that's without knowing the guy personally). It was off-the-top of his head stuff, I highly doubt there was a 2-yr tour stipulation writtten into their contracts before they went into the studio.

[whirlwind]

Whether it was his voice or his hip, either way, he was not up to commiting. Does any one of us not believe there was tremendous, agonizing pressure placed on him to tour after a 10-yr Journey hiatus?

The only problem with your scenario is that I am sure he KNEW about the expectations upon returning to Journey. He never should have signed on if he wasn't absolutely sure he could endure the rigors of the tour. If Neal was talking about a 2 year tour than I am sure that was already on the table when the contracts were signed...

SaintJohn , you need to practice what you preach on your sig.

J28, I think the lure to re-form Journey was just too much to turn his back on. Every Journey fan worth his salt knows how ROR ended. For SP, he had already apologized to his bandmates in the song on fTLOSM. Everybody was clamoring for a reunion (band reunions were the norm in the early 90's). As the announcer said in BTM show, there was no goodbye, no farewell to the fans, ROR tour just ended all of a sudden, Journey dropped out of people's consciousness.
I think he wanted that back, as did all the rest of the Journey kingdom.

We know how Neal talks (and that's without knowing the guy personally). It was off-the-top of his head stuff, I highly doubt there was a 2-yr tour stipulation writtten into their contracts before they went into the studio.

I know that I read somewhere that Perry and Smitty were planning on a much less strenuous tour for TBF, something like two on and two off. Anyone remember reading that?

[Saint John]

[SaintJohn , you need to practice what you preach on your sig.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[RossValoryRocks]

[SaintJohn , you need to practice what you preach on your sig.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I think it is refering to you being a better person.

[Don]

[SaintJohn , you need to practice what you preach on your sig.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Your obviously not drinking enough Kool-Aid in regards to your affections for Mr. Peartree.

[texafana]

The bottom line is...Perry regardless if he was in Journey or not, if he had something to give musically to this world he would have done it with or without Neal and co by now. It's over.......bring on the Perry informercials where he's pushing a cd of his favorite tunes performed an octave lower with only a piano by his side.

[Luvsaugeri]

and I also can tell you this...he showed me something last year in himself (it's not my story to tell) that makes me believe the man is as classy as they come.

Holy shit!!! This must have been some story!!!

[finalfight]

[SaintJohn , you need to practice what you preach on your sig.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

That makes the two of you!

[kgdjpubs]

I think the more important question that this thread didn't ask is "Would they have toured?" And we all know that answer is "No fucking way!" They made the right decision by moving on. They initially waited for the fucking guy for 8 years (86-94) only to see him come back and tour with someone else!!! Then he destroys their "someone else" lineup (Rolie and Chalfant) only to do what he contractually had to do (record) and leave them sitting in a circle with their dicks in their hands...again. Real classy fucking guy.

I have a much different take on Steve Perry than I used to have. I can't claim to know why he did what he did or if I really understand it, but I have seen many sides of Steve Perry and can only say he is very complex and we are trying to put together a scenario with out ALL of the info...we have a lot...but not all...and I also can tell you this...he showed me something last year in himself (it's not my story to tell) that makes me believe the man is as classy as they come.

Without knowing ALL the facts, common sense suggests that if Perry wanted to be in the music industry, he would have done something by now. By this point, any hurt/anger/disapproval or any other feeling he might have felt by the breakup would be over. Privately doing demos of songs doesn't mean anything with his recent history. If Perry wants to be out there singing and feels he can pull it off, he would be. For whatever reason, he has chosen to lead a private life out of the spotlight. Let him be. I only hope he is happy.

Steve Smith would have gone back to his jazz stuff pretty quickly anyways after the reunion tour, so my guess is that you would have seen a Perry/Schon/Cain/Valory/Castronovo lineup had Perry stayed within a year or two. It didn't happen though. Journey chose to move on. Judging by Perry's output in the last 10 years (or lack thereof), if they wanted the band back, I find it hard to believe they made the wrong decision.

[escapefan]

.... I don't know .... nobody's psyche ... nobody can claim to have tunnel vision ... we can only speculate ... and I say it can go either way.

True, SP hasn't done anything significant since I Stand Alone, which I'm not sure even qualifies as it was recorded in ‘98, the same year as the "divorce." But, let's say he was genuinely hurt over the entire TBF tour fiasco and breakup mess. Whether it was his voice or his hip, either way, he was not up to commiting. Does any one of us not believe there was tremendous, agonizing pressure placed on him to tour after a 10-yr Journey hiatus? During the TBF promotional rounds, Neal was absolutely giddy when asked about their "upcoming" tour and planning to "being out there for 2 years." At the time, SP was 47 yrs old, soon to be 48! How is his voice going to hold up, singing that catalog night after night for god knows how long?

A few long-time Journey fans have speculated on these forums that there was talk of SP recording albums in the studio and having another singer tour with the band. Well, this would work, except Neal/Jon jumped the gun by specifically looking for a "lead singer replacement" to take over completely.

During the ROR tour, RandyJ and MikeB were known as "hired guns." Journey, for all stated purposes, was a 3-man group consisted of SP/NS/JC. Why couldn't SA have been a hired gun until SP's health improved (or until he's runned out of excuses)? SP has said, in more than a few interviews, that it was never his intent to leave Journey. It was the "ultimatum" that forced his hand.

How we accept the chain of events, as it played out, depends on which side of the fan fence you're on, I guess.

Well put...

[Saint John]

[SaintJohn , you need to practice what you preach on your sig.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I think it is refering to you being a better person.

Like that's hard.