Birmingham Review 2 of 5 stars

[S2M]

When are people going to realize that record sales DO NOT reflect quality of music?

I agree that quantity sold doesn't equal quality. The Rolling Stones have sold an assload of albums and I think they suck. That said, I'm not sure what other barometer you want to use, to judge musicians. There has to be something, other than your own personal ear. Everyone has VERY specific taste when it comes to music. When an artist sells an insane amount of copies, there is at least some evidence that there are a lot of people who find their music appealing, whether you think it sucks or not!

Sales figures don't mean shit!

Perhaps if it doesn't fit someone's personal agenda, but the numbers have to count for something. There really is no other way of "keeping score", in the world of music. I believe that The Eagles, Greatest Hits 1971-1975 is the number one selling album, EVER, and I have to say...It's pretty damn good! I guess that many people voting with their wallets does sometimes indicate the music might be pretty good!


John from Boston

I guess it comes from getting subpar music shoved down my throat for SO long. Being TOLD what to like, what is popular, and ultimately...what is GOOD - that I'm rather soured when it comes to album sales.

I'm the same way with movie receipts....Since it cost more to buy a ticket - saying a movie broke a sales record is hollow for me. If they went by TICKET sales, rather than gross receipts it would mean more, ya know?

And an album selling a zillion copies within a relatively short time says nothing for it's quality. Over a 20-25 year span - says alot. You think most of these throwaway bands today that have sold 3 million copies will ever reach 10 million? But if you take the short span in which they've sold 3 million - the industry, and people who wish to act hip, and 'in-the-know', would lead you to believe that that equals QUALITY. Not buying it. Coldplay - in my opinion, isn't worth the tape it was recorded on. But it is hip today to like such things. And you here that stupid, lame Vida song every 15 mins on the radio.

It's funny....Iron Maiden never had a hit single, but yet the band's sold MILLIONS....THAT is quality.

[Ehwmatt]

Why the hell wouldn't you want to hear new music if you like the band enough to go to their fuckin show? Blows my mind when people leave for beer as soon as a new song starts.

It doesn't blow my mind, AT ALL. People are there for the music that put Journey on the map. Everyone has to take a piss or get a beer, at some point, so it makes perfect sense to get those "errands" done when something is playing that you have no connection to! The reality is that 98% of all the fans going to these concerts are there to hear "The Dirty Dozen" and don't give a rat's ass about anything else. In spite of what some people on this board believe, Journey is and will forever be an 80's band! They're not "cool"...They're not "hip"...and They're not young! Most of them are members of A.A.R.P., at this point, and simply still have the ability to play some old, great songs that many of us still love to hear, from our youth!

John from Boston

It's not the negativity of the review that's irritating, it's the fact that the TONE and the "points" made in the review have been rehashed ad nauseum by every bumfuck music critic out there. We get it. They're old, cheesy, washed-up, contrived, selling us a bill of goods because a member's not there, blah blah blah. I'm used to a lot of the bands I enjoy getting critically panned - if it bothered me that much, I wouldn't be here posting and listening to Journey. It's just the completely unoriginal criticism these idiots have spewed is getting old after 25+ years. They ought to find a new line of attack at least.

As for your explanation about the dirty dozen, that's a crock of shit. People that are truly into the music are always willing to give new material a try. They aren't content to rest on the band's laurels any more than a band that has had past success ought to be. They don't have to be hip or cool to make good new music. This is the attitude that makes shit like Nickelback and Fall Out Boy popular. They obviously don't want to "simply play some old, great songs" or else they wouldn't bother writing new material.

Look, when a band puts a piece of shit out there, it puts a piece of shit out there. Perfect example: Rush's fanbase, rabid in its support and defense of the band, pretty much universally panned Vapor Trails for its production and, to a lesser extent, its quality. But every true fan of a band ought to be willing to give any new material a shot and not be so blatantly disrespectful.

In June, I saw Todd Rundgren. This fucker came on stage, played about 4 or 5 "hits," and then proceeded to play his all new, UNRELEASED (as in no one had heard a note from it) album in its entirety, straight through. The best part about it? Everybody fuckin listened, and everybody was into it. That's because someone like Todd has always attracted a fan base that will be more dedicated than a big commercial success like Journey. But that's great.

But it's shit like that that probably makes "selling out" so ominous/loathsome for bands. How would you like it if you were forever judged only to the first 5 or 10 years of your work?

[Enigma869]

As for your explanation about the dirty dozen, that's a crock of shit. People that are truly into the music are always willing to give new material a try.

We'll agree to disagree. You are making the assumption (and in my opinion, a very wrong assumption) that everyone who shows up at a concert are as passionate about music as you appear to be. That's simply not reality! Most people are simply showing up to listen to some old music! Again, whether you accept it or not, Journey will ALWAYS be viewed as "an 80's band". That will NEVER change, in the eyes of the public, at large. Most (and again, most is the operative word in this sentence) fans attending concerts from bands who were huge in the 80's are there to listen to the music from that era...not new stuff! I can tell you that I've been a Journey fan my entire life, and even I'm there to listen to their back catalog more than I'm there to listen to anything off of "Revelation". I think "Revelation" is a decent cd. That said, it's simply not the quality of material that they put out 25-30 years ago, IMO.

But every true fan of a band ought to be willing to give any new material a shot and not be so blatantly disrespectful.

Again...you're making a whole lot of assumptions here. I'm a lifelong Red Sox fan, and sometimes I have to go take a piss when the newest player is stepping up to the plate! That's just life! Also, I don't think someone who has no interest in Journey's current music is any less of a fan than you are for embracing their new music. Let us not forget that this band has set a world record for the most lead singers in a band, and most people are probably just dizzy from it all, at this point! Also, for the "casual" fan...they never care about new tracks! They are ALWAYS about the "Greatest Hits"!

How would you like it if you were forever judged only to the first 5 or 10 years of your work?

That's a "softball" of a question for me. If my first 5-10 years of work were half as good as Journey's was...I'd have ZERO problem being judged by it! In fact, I'd insist upon it! The truth of the matter is that Journey will ALWAYS be judged on their 10 years with Perry. You don't have to like it, but it is what it is! Also, let us not forget that Schon and Cain seem to be MUCH more sentimental about the "legacy", after turning out some of the shit (again, my opinion) they've turned out, since they've moved away from what put them on the map!


John from Boston

[jrnyjetster]

hmmm...Every show thus far has been at or near a sell out and Revelation is still at the top of the Billboard charts. I'd say Journey is still RELEVANT in 2008.

[Ehwmatt]

As for your explanation about the dirty dozen, that's a crock of shit. People that are truly into the music are always willing to give new material a try.

We'll agree to disagree. You are making the assumption (and in my opinion, a very wrong assumption) that everyone who shows up at a concert are as passionate about music as you appear to be. That's simply not reality! Most people are simply showing up to listen to some old music! Again, whether you accept it or not, Journey will ALWAYS be viewed as "an 80's band". That will NEVER change, in the eyes of the public, at large. Most (and again, most is the operative word in this sentence) fans attending concerts from bands who were huge in the 80's are there to listen to the music from that era...not new stuff! I can tell you that I've been a Journey fan my entire life, and even I'm there to listen to their back catalog more than I'm there to listen to anything off of "Revelation". I think "Revelation" is a decent cd. That said, it's simply not the quality of material that they put out 25-30 years ago, IMO.

But every true fan of a band ought to be willing to give any new material a shot and not be so blatantly disrespectful.

Again...you're making a whole lot of assumptions here. I'm a lifelong Red Sox fan, and sometimes I have to go take a piss when the newest player is stepping up to the plate! That's just life! Also, I don't think someone who has no interest in Journey's current music is any less of a fan than you are for embracing their new music. Let us not forget that this band has set a world record for the most lead singers in a band, and most people are probably just dizzy from it all, at this point! Also, for the "casual" fan...they never care about new tracks! They are ALWAYS about the "Greatest Hits"!

How would you like it if you were forever judged only to the first 5 or 10 years of your work?

That's a "softball" of a question for me. If my first 5-10 years of work were half as good as Journey's was...I'd have ZERO problem being judged by it! In fact, I'd insist upon it! The truth of the matter is that Journey will ALWAYS be judged on their 10 years with Perry. You don't have to like it, but it is what it is! Also, let us not forget that Schon and Cain seem to be MUCH more sentimental about the "legacy", after turning out some of the shit (again, my opinion) they've turned out, since they've moved away from what put them on the map!


John from Boston

Fair enough. I guess what I failed to tie together in my original post was that I understand many people feel this way and that it is indeed simple reality. You couldn't be more right. But I also think that so-called "music critics" should be held to a higher standard in their reviews. Most take the easy way out and rehash the same old tired critiques.

[journeypower]

well, it would had been better if the writer made the title "I DON'T LIKE OLD BANDS" rather than say that it's a concert review. what happened was it wasn't really a review at all. if you can't give a real and fair assessment of a music concert, then don't write an article about it. aside from the comments that the band members are old ( which I don't find any relevance or connection to the musical performances, unless Cain, Deen, Ross, Neal, and Arnel forgot to do their part due to recurring amnesia) and AP's smile.

you are there to make observations of matters of substance. like how many people were there who enjoyed the concert? how many didn't enjoy it and why? was the venue a nice one? was the security tight? and so forth and so on. it's kinda funny since some of the people who post their reviews on the Journey website did a better job than this writer. honestly, I wouldn't mind people pointing out the negative things, as long as they are of substance. the writer obviously missed a lot of things to write about, except his own sentiments. wow, what a review.

[Eric]

1) Very rarely does a negative review sound any different for Journey. I'm quite sure this guy hates this kind of band, loves Nirvana, and didn't want to be at the show. I'd bet he
could have written most of it without attending.

2) He uses original members as a criteria for being good, then uses Steve Perry as a criteria for being good. HUH?

3) He criticizes Journey for being old and not being into it, but then criticizes them for playing NEW music? HUH?

[Greg]

hmmm...Every show thus far has been at or near a sell out and Revelation is still at the top of the Billboard charts. I'd say Journey is still RELEVANT in 2008.

Of course Journey was also selling out shows with Steve Augeri as well. I'd dare to say that band has always been potentially relevant, but just needed the right marketing to get the music out to the masses.

[Ehwmatt]

1) Very rarely does a negative review sound any different for Journey. I'm quite sure this guy hates this kind of band, loves Nirvana, and didn't want to be at the show. I'd bet he
could have written most of it without attending.

2) He uses original members as a criteria for being good, then uses Steve Perry as a criteria for being good. HUH?

3) He criticizes Journey for being old and not being into it, but then criticizes them for playing NEW music? HUH?

That's the thing - they are so caught up in regurgitating the same old criticisms that they don't even stop realize that the critique mix-n-match game they are playing is leading to completely asinine inherent contradictions. Just annoying.

[mdaemon]

hmmm...Every show thus far has been at or near a sell out and Revelation is still at the top of the Billboard charts. I'd say Journey is still RELEVANT in 2008.

Of course Journey was also selling out shows with Steve Augeri as well. I'd dare to say that band has always been potentially relevant, but just needed the right marketing to get the music out to the masses.

Arnel's story is marketable, he is an amazing singer & performer, and Revelation is a good album. Augeri, talented man that he is, has no story to sell.

[jtdrummer316]

Ok, I believe this is my first post, but I just thought I'd add my two cents. I was at the Birmingham show and I was really impressed with both groups. I went to the last show in B'ham which was in late 2008 when JSS was with them. I actually enjoyed this show more than the last. I still wasn't 100% sold on Arnel going into the show (even though I enjoy "Revelation" and have listened to it pretty consistently since I bought it) but now I believe this is a great lineup for the band. The crowd really didn't respond to the new stuff too much but the folks around me still listened. Basically, I thought it was a great show and look forward to seeing them next time they come 'round.

Also, these "reviewers" for the Birmingham News are pretty much morons. If you pay attention to what the reviewer actually "reviewed" it was not so much the music as it was the bands as individuals. Summing up his review, he basically said; the bands are old, Robin Zander can't jump, Neal & Ross didn't move, Arnel's a happy guy, oh and some songs were played.

Anyway, just my view on this.

[journeypower]

hmmm...Every show thus far has been at or near a sell out and Revelation is still at the top of the Billboard charts. I'd say Journey is still RELEVANT in 2008.

Of course Journey was also selling out shows with Steve Augeri as well. I'd dare to say that band has always been potentially relevant, but just needed the right marketing to get the music out to the masses.

Arnel's story is marketable, he is an amazing singer & performer, and Revelation is a good album. Augeri, talented man that he is, has no story to sell.

they could sell a story where Neal was shopping at a GAP store when all of a sudden, this mop boy came belting out the tune of Open Arms. apparently the store manager got angry with this mop boy's belting, that he fired the guy. Neal felt sorry for this mop boy , that he decided to hire him as the lead singer for Journey. pretty cool story ! I'll buy it !

[journeypower]

Ok, I believe this is my first post, but I just thought I'd add my two cents. I was at the Birmingham show and I was really impressed with both groups. I went to the last show in B'ham which was in late 2008 when JSS was with them. I actually enjoyed this show more than the last. I still wasn't 100% sold on Arnel going into the show (even though I enjoy "Revelation" and have listened to it pretty consistently since I bought it) but now I believe this is a great lineup for the band. The crowd really didn't respond to the new stuff too much but the folks around me still listened. Basically, I thought it was a great show and look forward to seeing them next time they come 'round.

Also, these "reviewers" for the Birmingham News are pretty much morons. If you pay attention to what the reviewer actually "reviewed" it was not so much the music as it was the bands as individuals. Summing up his review, he basically said; the bands are old, Robin Zander can't jump, Neal & Ross didn't move, Arnel's a happy guy, oh and some songs were played.

Anyway, just my view on this.

true, same superficial observation. that's what I had noticed. not much on the music but more on individual's physicality. that is also why I said that the title should had been "WHY I HATE OLD BANDS" rather than calling it a real concert review.

[S2M]

Well, I'm sure fans of the first 3 albums were lined up at the john when 'Patiently' first made it into the set.....Shit happens. Bands move on, and people will eventually come around.

Most people are trying to recapture their young adulthood anyway.....

[wastingbeerz]

"Journey filled out the rest of its almost-two-hour set by making the crowd suffer through more new songs before they could hear the hits"

GRRR!!!! I swear I HATE when people, especially reviewers, automatically think anything new by a classic band is boring and complete shit, just because it's not the hits that they're used to. Am I the only one that actually LOVES hearing new songs by old bands live? Like Dokken, for example. Played several new songs at the Poison show the other night. One of those rare occasions that the whole crowd seemed to be really getting into the new material as well. And, I could see if Journey's new material was bad, that "being forced to sit through" would actually apply. However, in my opinion, this is their strongest material since Arrival (an album which i also loved). It's not like going to see Metallica and having to sit through songs from turdburgers like Re-Load or St. Anger, which I bought for a dollar at a used CD store just to use as a beer coaster... and if you don't believe me, I bring you proof:



And notice, it's not even good beer!!! Hell, I wouldn't even put a Miller High Life on top of this thing. Too high class for this one!!!

Anyhow, this post has gone off track... the real point being Revelation kicks major @$$, and this reviewer has too much pop sensibility to really 'get' the idea of a true live performance.