Trial By Fire

[brywool]

TBF and Just the Rain SUCK. Terrible Journey songs.

That album is okay...

i adore you BW, but are you on CRACK? That is in the top 3 best songs on that entire disc!

that and Trial by fire and WYLAW. A hug and a kiss for you anyway ...but sheeesh

and for the record...my FAVORITE CD. EVER.

Wow, someone Adores me. That's nice! Okay, I'm in a better mood now!
Nah, I just found those songs lacking. No real chorus, nothing big in them which is what I like about Journey. I think one of the best songs on the album was "Easy to Fall" actually (though it rips the chords off from "Sweet and Simple"). That song has a TON of soul in it.
On JTR, I remember reading a quote from John Lennon about never using the word "Just" in lyrics because it's a meaningless fill in word. I think that stuck with me, so everytime I hear it (as in "It's Just the Rain") I automatically get a warning light... but having said that, the song still just doesn't go anywhere for me and is a downer. When I play the CD, I always turn it off on those songs. That's the cool thing about music, you may hate something that someone else likes. Makes me wonder if the songs I write that I hate, if someone might actually appreciate them.... nah, they stink.

[Ehwmatt]

John Lennon was the worst Beatle.

[brywool]

John Lennon was the worst Beatle.

Damn, is everybody just taking huge heroin hits this morning or what???


I think there were points where you're right. Actually, not the worst Beatle until about 67. Up until that point, Lennon was actually responsible for most of their best songs and then in 65, it started to shift and Paul actually kind of blossomed and became more the leader while Lennon just kind of lost himself and went down the Yoko road.
Too friggin' bad.

[Jana]

TBF and Just the Rain SUCK. Terrible Journey songs.

That album is okay...

Production is great. Musicianship is great. But it always sounded like 5 individuals parts put together...not a cohesive group effort. And Perry's emotion was brilliant but the quality of his vocals was rough.

Those two songs though... meandering, going nowhere... Same with... crap, is it One More or Castles Burning that goes ON and ON and ON.... I found that album to be really disappointing. They used this really funky method of recording Perry's voice where it was actually distorted (not his baked-ness, but just distorted) that was really annoying. It was nice hearing Smith again and I think Neal played some good stuff there. There ARE some excellent songs on it, don't get me wrong, but some of the songs weren't good AND they left "I Can See It In Your Eyes Off" and put on Just the Rain, TBF, and that stupidass reggae song. Remove those 3 and add ICSIIYE and I'd like it much more. The production was decent accept the way the vox were recorded.

I agree about the reggae song. What the devil was the dude smoking to do that? I think somebody already said it....it was Steve Perry's Raised On Radio. His name was all over it; after all he was the producer, so he apparently did what he wanted to. And it showed. It could have been a Steve Perry solo album.

They were probably just trying to have a bit of fun like "Her Majesty" on Abbey Road, but I just thought it was dumb. Sounded like Perry's "Summer of Love" which I can't stand either. Dang, I'm negative man today!

Hate Summer of Love for a Journey album.

[Ehwmatt]

John Lennon was the worst Beatle.

Damn, is everybody just taking huge heroin hits this morning or what???


I think there were points where you're right. Actually, not the worst Beatle until about 67. Up until that point, Lennon was actually responsible for most of their best songs and then in 65, it started to shift and Paul actually kind of blossomed and became more the leader while Lennon just kind of lost himself and went down the Yoko road.
Too friggin' bad.

Haha, to be honest I was really talkin about solo careers. Lennon's solo career is just awful to me, with a few exceptions. I'd probably go:

1. Paul
2. Ringo
3. George
4. John

Ringo and George change spots, but John's solo career is always dead last for me. Garbage.

And Summer of Luv is a fun little song. Quite like the vintage vibe on it, especially the understated guitar leads.

[StephenWJ]

John Lennon was the worst Beatle.

...I Prefer Oasis anyway.

Ha, Sorry, Just had to start a fight, i'll get my coat.

[brywool]

John Lennon was the worst Beatle.

Damn, is everybody just taking huge heroin hits this morning or what???


I think there were points where you're right. Actually, not the worst Beatle until about 67. Up until that point, Lennon was actually responsible for most of their best songs and then in 65, it started to shift and Paul actually kind of blossomed and became more the leader while Lennon just kind of lost himself and went down the Yoko road.
Too friggin' bad.

Haha, to be honest I was really talkin about solo careers. Lennon's solo career is just awful to me, with a few exceptions. I'd probably go:

1. Paul
2. Ringo
3. George
4. John

Yeah except for his songs on Double Fantasy, John's solo career did nothing for me. Paul's (DEFINITELY!) and George's were more my thing. George kind of veered at one point but was able to pull it back on the road thanks to Jeff Lynne. Ringo's last few albums were actually decent with the exception of the last that Dave Stewart produced. It sucked.

And Summer of Luv was just dumb to me.

[brywool]

John Lennon was the worst Beatle.

...I Prefer Oasis anyway.

Ha, Sorry, Just had to start a fight, i'll get my coat.

I Love Oasis. I think it's way cool that Ringo's kid was drumming for them. I didn't like their latest album though.

[yak]

TBF and Just the Rain SUCK. Terrible Journey songs.

That album is okay...

Production is great. Musicianship is great. But it always sounded like 5 individuals parts put together...not a cohesive group effort. And Perry's emotion was brilliant but the quality of his vocals was rough.

Those two songs though... meandering, going nowhere... Same with... crap, is it One More or Castles Burning that goes ON and ON and ON.... I found that album to be really disappointing. They used this really funky method of recording Perry's voice where it was actually distorted (not his baked-ness, but just distorted) that was really annoying. It was nice hearing Smith again and I think Neal played some good stuff there. There ARE some excellent songs on it, don't get me wrong, but some of the songs weren't good AND they left "I Can See It In Your Eyes Off" and put on Just the Rain, TBF, and that stupidass reggae song. Remove those 3 and add ICSIIYE and I'd like it much more. The production was decent accept the way the vox were recorded.

I agree about the reggae song. What the devil was the dude smoking to do that? I think somebody already said it....it was Steve Perry's Raised On Radio. His name was all over it; after all he was the producer, so he apparently did what he wanted to. And it showed. It could have been a Steve Perry solo album.

They were probably just trying to have a bit of fun like "Her Majesty" on Abbey Road, but I just thought it was dumb. Sounded like Perry's "Summer of Love" which I can't stand either. Dang, I'm negative man today!

It was dumb, and it was Perry pulling a fast one, once again. Yeah it was a "fun" song to some, and that's cool, but it just didn't fit the record. Why didn't Perry put it on his greatest hits....oh wait, never mind. Hey, I'm not seeing the negativity. Only thing I see is this thread segueing from TBF to the Beatles. How'd that happen?

[journey361]

TBF was JOURNEY's worst work i believe by far. I read somewhere that SP said he decided with the band of course (LOL) to change the vocal approach into that release and who cares, they will suffer the consequences if thats the case.

[Saint John]

TBF was JOURNEY's worst work i believe by far. I read somewhere that SP said he decided with the band of course (LOL) to change the vocal approach into that release and who cares, they will suffer the consequences if thats the case.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner, folks.

[S2M]

TBF was JOURNEY's worst work i believe by far. I read somewhere that SP said he decided with the band of course (LOL) to change the vocal approach into that release and who cares, they will suffer the consequences if thats the case.

Nope, that distinction is saved for Generations, Red13, and Revelation, sorry.....say what you will - but those releases are just GOD AWFUL.

and any response to the contrary will be just a contrarian comeback....

[annie89509]

Sorry, I'm kinda lost. Wasn't Summer of Luv a Perry solo song? Why is everyone talking like it's a Journey tune?

[KDOUBLEU]

Sorry, I'm kinda lost. Wasn't Summer of Luv a Perry solo song? Why is everyone talking like it's a Journey tune?

Yep it is. Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

[bluejeangirl76]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

[jrnyman28]

Sorry, I'm kinda lost. Wasn't Summer of Luv a Perry solo song? Why is everyone talking like it's a Journey tune?

Yep it is. Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

The songs are being compared and equated to Perry solo songs....

[KDOUBLEU]

I think its pretty obvious that everything Perry sang with Journey is better than any solo work he has done.

[MrsPerry]

Sorry, I'm kinda lost. Wasn't Summer of Luv a Perry solo song? Why is everyone talking like it's a Journey tune?

Yep it is. Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

ok, i am a liar. i hate that song. HATE IT. so i do hate a song off of TBF. they could have just let that one go.

[madsplash]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

[bluejeangirl76]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

Are you kidding me? Arrival smokes that goofy song.
But you're not about to give any credit to anything that isn't Perry, so I'm not surpised.

[brywool]

Sorry, I'm kinda lost. Wasn't Summer of Luv a Perry solo song? Why is everyone talking like it's a Journey tune?

Yep it is. Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

yeah, it was. The point was, Baby I'm a Leavin you is as dumb as Summer of Love.

[Ehwmatt]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

Are you kidding me? Arrival smokes that goofy song.
But you're not about to give any credit to anything that isn't Perry, so I'm not surpised.

Myopia, meet madsplash. Christ. I don't even mind Baby I'm Leavin You that much, but Arrival smokes it no doubt. The song's not meant to be taken seriously at all. Kinda cool to hear Neal playing in that style actually.

[Jana]

Sorry, I'm kinda lost. Wasn't Summer of Luv a Perry solo song? Why is everyone talking like it's a Journey tune?

Yep it is. Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

yeah, it was. The point was, Baby I'm a Leavin you is as dumb as Summer of Love.

Absolutely. I can't believe that was put on Essential Journey and Why Can't This Night Go On Forever left off. Boggles the mind.

[Ehwmatt]

Sorry, I'm kinda lost. Wasn't Summer of Luv a Perry solo song? Why is everyone talking like it's a Journey tune?

Yep it is. Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

yeah, it was. The point was, Baby I'm a Leavin you is as dumb as Summer of Love.

Absolutely. I can't believe that was put on Essential Journey and Why Can't This Night Go On Forever left off. Boggles the mind.

Like I said I don't have the intense hatred for the song that a lot seem to have, but yeah, putting it on Essential was crazy.

[brywool]

Let's see...

"I can see it in your eyes" or "Baby I'm a leavin you"

Hmm... which one to leave off?

Hmm... the choice is so hard....

[madsplash]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

Are you kidding me? Arrival smokes that goofy song.
But you're not about to give any credit to anything that isn't Perry, so I'm not surpised.

I'll give credit. The playing on the stuff after SP has still been great, but just like some say that Perry's songs suffer without the help of Neal and Jon, it plays both ways. They haven't written 1 great song without SP. The last great Journey song was When You Love A Woman.

With SP, Journey was like great sex. Without him, the new stuff is musical masturbation. All the notes are there, but it sure as hell ain't the same.

[KDOUBLEU]

Maybe they meant Baby Im a leavin You.

Worst Journey song pre-1998.

Possibly, but still better than anything new since 1998.

Are you kidding me? Arrival smokes that goofy song.
But you're not about to give any credit to anything that isn't Perry, so I'm not surpised.

I'll give credit. The playing on the stuff after SP has still been great, but just like some say that Perry's songs suffer without the help of Neal and Jon, it plays both ways. They haven't written 1 great song without SP. The last great Journey song was When You Love A Woman.

With SP, Journey was like great sex. Without him, the new stuff is musical masturbation. All the notes are there, but it sure as hell ain't the same.

Yep.

[Gideon]

I disagree, completely and vehemently, with the idea that "Baby I'm A Leavin' You" is better than anything Journey's released post-Perry. In fact, I question the validity of that claim: does Madsplash think that because he objectively considers it to be a superior work or simply because it is with Steve Perry, and so it must be perfect?

Anyways, it's an opinion, and he's welcome to it. Meanwhile, I would contend that anything post-Perry is far greater than that miserable three minutes. That was TBF-era Perry trying to dominate a song through vocals, casting Neal and the others in the shadow, and that's why it failed. Of the five men there, during TBF, Perry's instrument was by far the weakest. He should have stuck to the formula of the rest of the album; where the instruments and melodies would compensate for his fragile voice.

[Jana]

I disagree, completely and vehemently, with the idea that "Baby I'm A Leavin' You" is better than anything Journey's released post-Perry. In fact, I question the validity of that claim: does Madsplash think that because he objectively considers it to be a superior work or simply because it is with Steve Perry, and so it must be perfect?

Anyways, it's an opinion, and he's welcome to it. Meanwhile, I would contend that anything post-Perry is far greater than that miserable three minutes. That was TBF-era Perry trying to dominate a song through vocals, casting Neal and the others in the shadow, and that's why it failed. Of the five men there, during TBF, Perry's instrument was by far the weakest. He should have stuck to the formula of the rest of the album; where the instruments and melodies would compensate for his fragile voice.

It would kill Splashy to ever admit there were some good songs after Steve left that are better than anything with Perry. It will never happen. He's incapable. I still absolutely love Turn Down the World Tonight, beautiful, beautiful song, and there's several on Arrival that I love to this day and none of those songs make me miss Perry. Augeri and Arnel own them and were very moving with their vocals to such great melodies. I can't stomach Baby I'm A Leavin You and skip it every time and there's another song on TBF where Perry's vocals are rough and it didn't sound good. Skip every time. The rest of the songs I liked even though his voice wasn't the same on a few songs compared to ROR. The hollow sound some talk about, that's what bothered me when I first bought TBF. When Perry would hit the higher notes the sound bothered my ears. I couldn't figure it out b/c that's never been the case with his voice with the range he sings in. But it was the hollowness that was talked about that. There wasn't as much power in those high notes. But I got used to it and now it doesn't bother me when I listen to TBF.

[Don]

I disagree, completely and vehemently, with the idea that "Baby I'm A Leavin' You" is better than anything Journey's released post-Perry. In fact, I question the validity of that claim: does Madsplash think that because he objectively considers it to be a superior work or simply because it is with Steve Perry, and so it must be perfect?

Anyways, it's an opinion, and he's welcome to it. Meanwhile, I would contend that anything post-Perry is far greater than that miserable three minutes. That was TBF-era Perry trying to dominate a song through vocals, casting Neal and the others in the shadow, and that's why it failed. Of the five men there, during TBF, Perry's instrument was by far the weakest. He should have stuck to the formula of the rest of the album; where the instruments and melodies would compensate for his fragile voice.

It would kill Splashy to ever admit there were some good songs after Steve left that are better than anything with Perry. It will never happen. He's incapable. I still absolutely love Turn Down the World Tonight, beautiful, beautiful song, and there's several on Arrival that I love to this day and none of those songs make me miss Perry. Augeri and Arnel own them and were very moving with their vocals to such great melodies. I can't stomach Baby I'm A Leavin You and skip it every time and there's another song on TBF where Perry's vocals are rough and it didn't sound good. Skip every time. The rest of the songs I liked even though his voice wasn't the same on a few songs compared to ROR. The hollow sound some talk about, that's what bothered me when I first bought TBF. When Perry would hit the higher notes the sound bothered my ears. I couldn't figure it out b/c that's never been the case with his voice with the range he sings in. But it was the hollowness that was talked about that. There wasn't as much power in those high notes. But I got used to it and now it doesn't bother me when I listen to TBF.

Not in the setlist again last night despite everyone saying it's their favorite ballad off of Revelation. What gives?