Journey 5-23-09 Miles Schon and Cains son on drums.

[SherriBerry]

Why is it assumed that this is a bad sign? Could it be a tactic to preserve his voice to build up before kicking off the tour?

You could be right, but seeing as they stepped down all three shows in Japan and all five in Hawaii, that's one hell of a buildup.

It might not have anything to do with Arnel. It might be that the 60 year olds need to lower the key for their voices when singing backup and chorus. Just a thought...........
Arnel sure as hell isn't tuning down anything he's singing at his charity events.

Yeah, I noticed that. It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I guess after the SuperBowl performance, they just said screw it and decided to let Arnel do his own thing.

I thought a lot of the backup vocals are prerecorded, so that wouldn't explain detuning. A few here have commented that Neal doesn't seem to go to the mike as often as he used too (I have no idea) and I remember HH comparing Gregg Rolie's vocals with Jon Cain's and commenting in an interview that Jon needs help from a hard drive when he sings live. Was Arnel sounding off throughout the concert or just on the last song?

[steveo777]

Why is it assumed that this is a bad sign? Could it be a tactic to preserve his voice to build up before kicking off the tour?

You could be right, but seeing as they stepped down all three shows in Japan and all five in Hawaii, that's one hell of a buildup.

It might not have anything to do with Arnel. It might be that the 60 year olds need to lower the key for their voices when singing backup and chorus. Just a thought...........
Arnel sure as hell isn't tuning down anything he's singing at his charity events.

Yeah, I noticed that. It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I guess after the SuperBowl performance, they just said screw it and decided to let Arnel do his own thing.

I thought a lot of the backup vocals are prerecorded, so that wouldn't explain detuning. A few here have commented that Neal doesn't seem to go to the mike as often as he used too (I have no idea) and I remember HH comparing Gregg Rolie's vocals with Jon Cain's and commenting in an interview that Jon needs help from a hard drive when he sings live. Was Arnel sounding off throughout the concert or just on the last song?

My bullshit detector just went off in the most alarming way. I wouldn't believe anything the has-beens have to say about the current Journey. Get real!

[SherriBerry]

Why is it assumed that this is a bad sign? Could it be a tactic to preserve his voice to build up before kicking off the tour?

You could be right, but seeing as they stepped down all three shows in Japan and all five in Hawaii, that's one hell of a buildup.

It might not have anything to do with Arnel. It might be that the 60 year olds need to lower the key for their voices when singing backup and chorus. Just a thought...........
Arnel sure as hell isn't tuning down anything he's singing at his charity events.

Yeah, I noticed that. It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I guess after the SuperBowl performance, they just said screw it and decided to let Arnel do his own thing.

I thought a lot of the backup vocals are prerecorded, so that wouldn't explain detuning. A few here have commented that Neal doesn't seem to go to the mike as often as he used too (I have no idea) and I remember HH comparing Gregg Rolie's vocals with Jon Cain's and commenting in an interview that Jon needs help from a hard drive when he sings live. Was Arnel sounding off throughout the concert or just on the last song?

My bullshit detector just went off in the most alarming way. I wouldn't believe anything the has-beens have to say about the current Journey. Get real!

Bullshit about which part? Herbie Herbert stated flat out JC "...sounds good because there's a computer singing along with him" and Arnel did sound flat in LTS at the Sacremento concert. As for prerecorded backup vocals, a lot of bands do that, but I couldn't tell you to what extent Journey might use them - the regulars around here would know, particularly Deano. What do you mean by has-beens?

[steveo777]

Why is it assumed that this is a bad sign? Could it be a tactic to preserve his voice to build up before kicking off the tour?

You could be right, but seeing as they stepped down all three shows in Japan and all five in Hawaii, that's one hell of a buildup.

It might not have anything to do with Arnel. It might be that the 60 year olds need to lower the key for their voices when singing backup and chorus. Just a thought...........
Arnel sure as hell isn't tuning down anything he's singing at his charity events.

Yeah, I noticed that. It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I guess after the SuperBowl performance, they just said screw it and decided to let Arnel do his own thing.

I thought a lot of the backup vocals are prerecorded, so that wouldn't explain detuning. A few here have commented that Neal doesn't seem to go to the mike as often as he used too (I have no idea) and I remember HH comparing Gregg Rolie's vocals with Jon Cain's and commenting in an interview that Jon needs help from a hard drive when he sings live. Was Arnel sounding off throughout the concert or just on the last song?

My bullshit detector just went off in the most alarming way. I wouldn't believe anything the has-beens have to say about the current Journey. Get real!

Bullshit about which part? Herbie Herbert stated flat out JC "...sounds good because there's a computer singing along with him" and Arnel did sound flat in LTS at the Sacremento concert. As for prerecorded backup vocals, a lot of bands do that, but I couldn't tell you to what extent Journey might use them - the regulars around here would know, particularly Deano. What do you mean by has-beens?

Show links, otherwise this is just conjecture. Has beens? HH, nuff said. Show this computer sing along shit, really, so we can either validate it or diss it. My understanding of the hard drive has been to keep track of the set list, so he knows what's coming at him.

[alesson]

Why is it assumed that this is a bad sign? Could it be a tactic to preserve his voice to build up before kicking off the tour?

You could be right, but seeing as they stepped down all three shows in Japan and all five in Hawaii, that's one hell of a buildup.

It might not have anything to do with Arnel. It might be that the 60 year olds need to lower the key for their voices when singing backup and chorus. Just a thought...........
Arnel sure as hell isn't tuning down anything he's singing at his charity events.

Yeah, I noticed that. It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I guess after the SuperBowl performance, they just said screw it and decided to let Arnel do his own thing.

As far as Arnel, IMO..he will never tuned down if it was not in his own volition. The man is a born performer and will give out all anytime of the day as long as his voice is capable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTKy0G

Things may have changed now because he had to out of concerns on to the future shows of the band.

He is best when he always go for the original key or higher..

[SherriBerry]

Why is it assumed that this is a bad sign? Could it be a tactic to preserve his voice to build up before kicking off the tour?

You could be right, but seeing as they stepped down all three shows in Japan and all five in Hawaii, that's one hell of a buildup.

It might not have anything to do with Arnel. It might be that the 60 year olds need to lower the key for their voices when singing backup and chorus. Just a thought...........
Arnel sure as hell isn't tuning down anything he's singing at his charity events.

Yeah, I noticed that. It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I guess after the SuperBowl performance, they just said screw it and decided to let Arnel do his own thing.

I thought a lot of the backup vocals are prerecorded, so that wouldn't explain detuning. A few here have commented that Neal doesn't seem to go to the mike as often as he used too (I have no idea) and I remember HH comparing Gregg Rolie's vocals with Jon Cain's and commenting in an interview that Jon needs help from a hard drive when he sings live. Was Arnel sounding off throughout the concert or just on the last song?

My bullshit detector just went off in the most alarming way. I wouldn't believe anything the has-beens have to say about the current Journey. Get real!

Bullshit about which part? Herbie Herbert stated flat out JC "...sounds good because there's a computer singing along with him" and Arnel did sound flat in LTS at the Sacremento concert. As for prerecorded backup vocals, a lot of bands do that, but I couldn't tell you to what extent Journey might use them - the regulars around here would know, particularly Deano. What do you mean by has-beens?

Show links, otherwise this is just conjecture. Has beens? HH, nuff said. Show this computer sing along shit, really, so we can either validate it or diss it. My understanding of the hard drive has been to keep track of the set list, so he knows what's coming at him.

Herbie Herbert isn't a has-been - he knows more about that band than most and he's still Neal's business partner and friend. Here's the link to the Matt Carty interview (check the end of page two of Part 2) - I've mentioned it to you before. If you can't be bothered to read it and learn something new that's not my concern.

http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/

[Jana]

I couldn't agree more. It is really cool to see the kids playing, good for them. I'd vote to have Cain's daughter sing the whole thing as well and sing the bastard in the right key. Arnel was all over the place and detuned, Jesus. The songs really loose their punch detuned. I made a good decision staying home this year.

Here's an example of the proper key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_aiRLbM0Y

And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnJnZhKwBk

Neat.

Miles sharing lead with his dad, Cains daughter sings a verse and Cains young son on drums for the LTS encore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoyOfLxb ... re=related

Edit: Better link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCUZwTw ... annel_page

That was fun, but they should have let Cains daughter sing the whole song, Arnel was all over the place!

I thought that too. He sounded flat at times and the detuned songs do sound different.

They changed the schedule around to avoid him doing three shows in a row so why are they detuning? Perry only did it when he was already 45 on his own solo tour. Arnel's only 41. What's he going to sound like when he's 45 if they already got to do this stuff now after only one tour? He hasn't performed in two months and he has another week off before the next show. I totally don't get it.

Well, GB, that may have been the first time we saw that Perry needed to to it in his solo tour in the mid 90s, but he hadn't sung with Journey since '87. He was knocked down considerably at the charity event years earlier. He could have needed it from '89 on when he didn't tour anywhere those years. We just wouldn't know it.

Re Arnel, if they stay tuned down it's because though he can hit the notes in the original key and sounds great (Manila show) they saw what his voice was like by the end of the tour last year and the strain. I don't think it had to do with the three days in a row. He's 41. Obviously, they are doing it b/c of Arnel. If he could EFFORTLESSLY hit those notes for the whole tour they wouldn't have done this. I would prefer the songs as originally done, but if this is what it takes to preserve his voice for years to come I'm okay with it. Many were saying last year that they were stubborn and unrealistic trying to keep singing this catalogue of music in the original key. Re what he's doing with songs in his charity tour in the original key, you can't compare those songs to Journey songs. The songs he was singing were a cakewalk compared to belting out Journey songs.

So far Maui Tom and Dr. Fu/Linda have seen shows detuned the half step or however you say it, and both said the show was great. So I go by longtime Journey fans who have seen the shows this year on how they sound detuned. Arnel seemed to sound good on all the songs at Sacramento, though he did sound flat , I agree, on LTS.

[DrFU]

I couldn't agree more. It is really cool to see the kids playing, good for them. I'd vote to have Cain's daughter sing the whole thing as well and sing the bastard in the right key. Arnel was all over the place and detuned, Jesus. The songs really loose their punch detuned. I made a good decision staying home this year.

Here's an example of the proper key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_aiRLbM0Y

And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnJnZhKwBk

Neat.

Miles sharing lead with his dad, Cains daughter sings a verse and Cains young son on drums for the LTS encore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoyOfLxb ... re=related

Edit: Better link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCUZwTw ... annel_page

That was fun, but they should have let Cains daughter sing the whole song, Arnel was all over the place!

I thought that too. He sounded flat at times and the detuned songs do sound different.

They changed the schedule around to avoid him doing three shows in a row so why are they detuning? Perry only did it when he was already 45 on his own solo tour. Arnel's only 41. What's he going to sound like when he's 45 if they already got to do this stuff now after only one tour? He hasn't performed in two months and he has another week off before the next show. I totally don't get it.

Well, GB, that may have been the first time we saw that Perry needed to to it in his solo tour in the mid 90s, but he hadn't sung with Journey since '87. He was knocked down considerably at the charity event years earlier. He could have needed it from '89 on when he didn't tour anywhere those years. We just wouldn't know it.

Re Arnel, if they stay tuned down it's because though he can hit the notes in the original key and sounds great (Manila show) they saw what his voice was like by the end of the tour last year and the strain. I don't think it had to do with the three days in a row. He's 41. Obviously, they are doing it b/c of Arnel. If he could EFFORTLESSLY hit those notes for the whole tour they wouldn't have done this. I would prefer the songs as originally done, but if this is what it takes to preserve his voice for years to come I'm okay with it. Many were saying last year that they were stubborn and unrealistic trying to keep singing this catalogue of music in the original key. Re what he's doing with songs in his charity tour in the original key, you can't compare those songs to Journey songs. The songs he was singing were a cakewalk compared to belting out Journey songs.

So far Maui Tom and Dr. Fu/Linda have seen shows detuned the half step or however you say it, and both said the show was great. So I go by longtime Journey fans who have seen the shows this year on how they sound detuned. Arnel seemed to sound good on all the songs at Sacramento, though he did sound flat , I agree, on LTS.

I put the whole detune flap in the "second shooter in Dallas" category ... I have no idea if it's real and don't care one way or the other ... I went to enjoy the show

[Don]

Why is it assumed that this is a bad sign? Could it be a tactic to preserve his voice to build up before kicking off the tour?

You could be right, but seeing as they stepped down all three shows in Japan and all five in Hawaii, that's one hell of a buildup.

It might not have anything to do with Arnel. It might be that the 60 year olds need to lower the key for their voices when singing backup and chorus. Just a thought...........
Arnel sure as hell isn't tuning down anything he's singing at his charity events.

Yeah, I noticed that. It's like one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. I guess after the SuperBowl performance, they just said screw it and decided to let Arnel do his own thing.

I thought a lot of the backup vocals are prerecorded, so that wouldn't explain detuning. A few here have commented that Neal doesn't seem to go to the mike as often as he used too (I have no idea) and I remember HH comparing Gregg Rolie's vocals with Jon Cain's and commenting in an interview that Jon needs help from a hard drive when he sings live. Was Arnel sounding off throughout the concert or just on the last song?

My bullshit detector just went off in the most alarming way. I wouldn't believe anything the has-beens have to say about the current Journey. Get real!

Bullshit about which part? Herbie Herbert stated flat out JC "...sounds good because there's a computer singing along with him" and Arnel did sound flat in LTS at the Sacremento concert. As for prerecorded backup vocals, a lot of bands do that, but I couldn't tell you to what extent Journey might use them - the regulars around here would know, particularly Deano. What do you mean by has-beens?

Show links, otherwise this is just conjecture. Has beens? HH, nuff said. Show this computer sing along shit, really, so we can either validate it or diss it. My understanding of the hard drive has been to keep track of the set list, so he knows what's coming at him.

Herbie Herbert isn't a has-been - he knows more about that band than most and he's still Neal's business partner and friend. Here's the link to the Matt Carty interview (check the end of page two of Part 2) - I've mentioned it to you before. If you can't be bothered to read it and learn something new that's not my concern.

http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/

Funny how when HH talks about Perry, it's considered Gospel, yet when he says anything about other members of the band, it then it becomes conjecture.

If Journey was fine lipsyncing on lead vocals because Augeri had a throat infection and as Neal said "People do what they have to do" why would it be such a Shock if they ran tape on Cain also?

[FishinMagician]

I couldn't agree more. It is really cool to see the kids playing, good for them. I'd vote to have Cain's daughter sing the whole thing as well and sing the bastard in the right key. Arnel was all over the place and detuned, Jesus. The songs really loose their punch detuned. I made a good decision staying home this year.

Here's an example of the proper key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_aiRLbM0Y

And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnJnZhKwBk

Neat.

Miles sharing lead with his dad, Cains daughter sings a verse and Cains young son on drums for the LTS encore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoyOfLxb ... re=related

Edit: Better link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCUZwTw ... annel_page

That was fun, but they should have let Cains daughter sing the whole song, Arnel was all over the place!

I thought that too. He sounded flat at times and the detuned songs do sound different.

They changed the schedule around to avoid him doing three shows in a row so why are they detuning? Perry only did it when he was already 45 on his own solo tour. Arnel's only 41. What's he going to sound like when he's 45 if they already got to do this stuff now after only one tour? He hasn't performed in two months and he has another week off before the next show. I totally don't get it.

Well, GB, that may have been the first time we saw that Perry needed to to it in his solo tour in the mid 90s, but he hadn't sung with Journey since '87. He was knocked down considerably at the charity event years earlier. He could have needed it from '89 on when he didn't tour anywhere those years. We just wouldn't know it.

Re Arnel, if they stay tuned down it's because though he can hit the notes in the original key and sounds great (Manila show) they saw what his voice was like by the end of the tour last year and the strain. I don't think it had to do with the three days in a row. He's 41. Obviously, they are doing it b/c of Arnel. If he could EFFORTLESSLY hit those notes for the whole tour they wouldn't have done this. I would prefer the songs as originally done, but if this is what it takes to preserve his voice for years to come I'm okay with it. Many were saying last year that they were stubborn and unrealistic trying to keep singing this catalogue of music in the original key. Re what he's doing with songs in his charity tour in the original key, you can't compare those songs to Journey songs. The songs he was singing were a cakewalk compared to belting out Journey songs.

So far Maui Tom and Dr. Fu/Linda have seen shows detuned the half step or however you say it, and both said the show was great. So I go by longtime Journey fans who have seen the shows this year on how they sound detuned. Arnel seemed to sound good on all the songs at Sacramento, though he did sound flat , I agree, on LTS.

I put the whole detune flap in the "second shooter in Dallas" category ... I have no idea if it's real and don't care one way or the other ... I went to enjoy the show

how can you not know if detuning is real? its been proven. but good, enjoy the show either way

[Don]

I couldn't agree more. It is really cool to see the kids playing, good for them. I'd vote to have Cain's daughter sing the whole thing as well and sing the bastard in the right key. Arnel was all over the place and detuned, Jesus. The songs really loose their punch detuned. I made a good decision staying home this year.

Here's an example of the proper key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_aiRLbM0Y

And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnJnZhKwBk

Neat.

Miles sharing lead with his dad, Cains daughter sings a verse and Cains young son on drums for the LTS encore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoyOfLxb ... re=related

Edit: Better link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCUZwTw ... annel_page

That was fun, but they should have let Cains daughter sing the whole song, Arnel was all over the place!

I thought that too. He sounded flat at times and the detuned songs do sound different.

They changed the schedule around to avoid him doing three shows in a row so why are they detuning? Perry only did it when he was already 45 on his own solo tour. Arnel's only 41. What's he going to sound like when he's 45 if they already got to do this stuff now after only one tour? He hasn't performed in two months and he has another week off before the next show. I totally don't get it.

Well, GB, that may have been the first time we saw that Perry needed to to it in his solo tour in the mid 90s, but he hadn't sung with Journey since '87. He was knocked down considerably at the charity event years earlier. He could have needed it from '89 on when he didn't tour anywhere those years. We just wouldn't know it.

Re Arnel, if they stay tuned down it's because though he can hit the notes in the original key and sounds great (Manila show) they saw what his voice was like by the end of the tour last year and the strain. I don't think it had to do with the three days in a row. He's 41. Obviously, they are doing it b/c of Arnel. If he could EFFORTLESSLY hit those notes for the whole tour they wouldn't have done this. I would prefer the songs as originally done, but if this is what it takes to preserve his voice for years to come I'm okay with it. Many were saying last year that they were stubborn and unrealistic trying to keep singing this catalogue of music in the original key. Re what he's doing with songs in his charity tour in the original key, you can't compare those songs to Journey songs. The songs he was singing were a cakewalk compared to belting out Journey songs.

So far Maui Tom and Dr. Fu/Linda have seen shows detuned the half step or however you say it, and both said the show was great. So I go by longtime Journey fans who have seen the shows this year on how they sound detuned. Arnel seemed to sound good on all the songs at Sacramento, though he did sound flat , I agree, on LTS.

I put the whole detune flap in the "second shooter in Dallas" category ... I have no idea if it's real and don't care one way or the other ... I went to enjoy the show

And that's all that matters.

[Don]

I couldn't agree more. It is really cool to see the kids playing, good for them. I'd vote to have Cain's daughter sing the whole thing as well and sing the bastard in the right key. Arnel was all over the place and detuned, Jesus. The songs really loose their punch detuned. I made a good decision staying home this year.

Here's an example of the proper key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_aiRLbM0Y

And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnJnZhKwBk

Neat.

Miles sharing lead with his dad, Cains daughter sings a verse and Cains young son on drums for the LTS encore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoyOfLxb ... re=related

Edit: Better link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCUZwTw ... annel_page

That was fun, but they should have let Cains daughter sing the whole song, Arnel was all over the place!

I thought that too. He sounded flat at times and the detuned songs do sound different.

They changed the schedule around to avoid him doing three shows in a row so why are they detuning? Perry only did it when he was already 45 on his own solo tour. Arnel's only 41. What's he going to sound like when he's 45 if they already got to do this stuff now after only one tour? He hasn't performed in two months and he has another week off before the next show. I totally don't get it.

Well, GB, that may have been the first time we saw that Perry needed to to it in his solo tour in the mid 90s, but he hadn't sung with Journey since '87. He was knocked down considerably at the charity event years earlier. He could have needed it from '89 on when he didn't tour anywhere those years. We just wouldn't know it.

Re Arnel, if they stay tuned down it's because though he can hit the notes in the original key and sounds great (Manila show) they saw what his voice was like by the end of the tour last year and the strain. I don't think it had to do with the three days in a row. He's 41. Obviously, they are doing it b/c of Arnel. If he could EFFORTLESSLY hit those notes for the whole tour they wouldn't have done this. I would prefer the songs as originally done, but if this is what it takes to preserve his voice for years to come I'm okay with it. Many were saying last year that they were stubborn and unrealistic trying to keep singing this catalogue of music in the original key. Re what he's doing with songs in his charity tour in the original key, you can't compare those songs to Journey songs. The songs he was singing were a cakewalk compared to belting out Journey songs.

So far Maui Tom and Dr. Fu/Linda have seen shows detuned the half step or however you say it, and both said the show was great. So I go by longtime Journey fans who have seen the shows this year on how they sound detuned. Arnel seemed to sound good on all the songs at Sacramento, though he did sound flat , I agree, on LTS.

So why water down the schedule if he's detuned? Bon Jovi detunes but they still can do 100 shows. I'm not getting on them for detuning as much as asking why do half a year of shows? If Arnel goes out and sings on regular key during his non-Journey appearances, it seems then that the detuning to save his voice would be a waste of time.

[Don]

So, if you pay a hundred bucks, you get to see Journey stepped down, yet if you go see Arnel for 20 bucks sitting in with the Zoo, you get a show done in original key.

That makes sense.

Glad I saw them at the Greek last year. His voice was tired but hearing him sing WYLAW was worth it. I'll have to pass on them this year, unless they offer stepped down prices to go along with their shows.

[Saint John]

Cirque du Journey.

"Circus Life" is a Jon Cain lyric. At least be original!

[Lora]

I put the whole detune flap in the "second shooter in Dallas" category ... I have no idea if it's real and don't care one way or the other ... I went to enjoy the show

how can you not know if detuning is real? its been proven. but good, enjoy the show either way

Yep. Detuning is real and they tuned down in Sacramento. Wasn't a big deal for me, though. I am also pretty certain that they used canned background vocals to enhance some songs. Again, doesn't bother me as many bands use them.

[Ehwmatt]

So, if you pay a hundred bucks, you get to see Journey stepped down, yet if you go see Arnel for 20 bucks sitting in with the Zoo, you get a show done in original key.

That makes sense.

Glad I saw them at the Greek last year. His voice was tired but hearing him sing WYLAW was worth it. I'll have to pass on them this year, unless they offer stepped down prices to go along with their shows.

For 20 bucks, you also get to hear that incredible guitar player from the Zoo. Christ, that guy can't play better than an average hack cranking an amp up at Guitar Center.

[Don]

So, if you pay a hundred bucks, you get to see Journey stepped down, yet if you go see Arnel for 20 bucks sitting in with the Zoo, you get a show done in original key.

That makes sense.

Glad I saw them at the Greek last year. His voice was tired but hearing him sing WYLAW was worth it. I'll have to pass on them this year, unless they offer stepped down prices to go along with their shows.

For 20 bucks, you also get to hear that incredible guitar player from the Zoo. Christ, that guy can't play better than an average hack cranking an amp up at Guitar Center.

Maybe that's why Arnel couldn't get any traction the Philippine market, hisv ocals, while steller couldn't save him from that atrocity backing him up.

[FishinMagician]

So, if you pay a hundred bucks, you get to see Journey stepped down, yet if you go see Arnel for 20 bucks sitting in with the Zoo, you get a show done in original key.

That makes sense.

Glad I saw them at the Greek last year. His voice was tired but hearing him sing WYLAW was worth it. I'll have to pass on them this year, unless they offer stepped down prices to go along with their shows.

For 20 bucks, you also get to hear that incredible guitar player from the Zoo. Christ, that guy can't play better than an average hack cranking an amp up at Guitar Center.

lol those people are funny

[Gideon]

Funny how when HH talks about Perry, it's considered Gospel, yet when he says anything about other members of the band, it then it becomes conjecture.

I'm not going to try to start anything here, but if I recall, SherriBerry pulled a reverse on this. In one of our arguments, she frequently brought up Herbie's claims against Perry as an extension of bias, and yet when it comes to Cain, it's the gospel?

No, sorry, that doesn't fly. I'd like it clarified if she was endorsing Herbie's claims or merely throwing it out there as food for thought. Because if it's the former, I'd remind her that Herbie has gone on record condemning Cain as much as Perry, and what he said on the issue could also be the result of bias. If it's the latter, I'd compliment her on objective reporting.

[Rick]

Funny how when HH talks about Perry, it's considered Gospel, yet when he says anything about other members of the band, it then it becomes conjecture.

I'm not going to try to start anything here, but if I recall, SherriBerry pulled a reverse on this. In one of our arguments, she frequently brought up Herbie's claims against Perry as an extension of bias, and yet when it comes to Cain, it's the gospel?

No, sorry, that doesn't fly. I'd like it clarified if she was endorsing Herbie's claims or merely throwing it out there as food for thought. Because if it's the former, I'd remind her that Herbie has gone on record condemning Cain as much as Perry, and what he said on the issue could also be the result of bias. If it's the latter, I'd compliment her on objective reporting.

He certainly started off disliking Cain. Disliking being kind.

[Gideon]

Funny how when HH talks about Perry, it's considered Gospel, yet when he says anything about other members of the band, it then it becomes conjecture.

I'm not going to try to start anything here, but if I recall, SherriBerry pulled a reverse on this. In one of our arguments, she frequently brought up Herbie's claims against Perry as an extension of bias, and yet when it comes to Cain, it's the gospel?

No, sorry, that doesn't fly. I'd like it clarified if she was endorsing Herbie's claims or merely throwing it out there as food for thought. Because if it's the former, I'd remind her that Herbie has gone on record condemning Cain as much as Perry, and what he said on the issue could also be the result of bias. If it's the latter, I'd compliment her on objective reporting.

He certainly started off disliking Cain. Disliking being kind.

Indeed.

Either HH must be considered accurate with both or accurate with neither. No special circumstances for Mr. Perry, I'm afraid...

[Don]

Funny how when HH talks about Perry, it's considered Gospel, yet when he says anything about other members of the band, it then it becomes conjecture.

I'm not going to try to start anything here, but if I recall, SherriBerry pulled a reverse on this. In one of our arguments, she frequently brought up Herbie's claims against Perry as an extension of bias, and yet when it comes to Cain, it's the gospel?

No, sorry, that doesn't fly. I'd like it clarified if she was endorsing Herbie's claims or merely throwing it out there as food for thought. Because if it's the former, I'd remind her that Herbie has gone on record condemning Cain as much as Perry, and what he said on the issue could also be the result of bias. If it's the latter, I'd compliment her on objective reporting.

Myself, I think HH has been a straight shooter concerning every member of the band. I don't doubt anything he says about either Perry or Cain. I think that's why he has no hesitation in what he says because none of the band members can refute him. I think if his statements were full of untruths, Neal wouldn't be still a friend of his, yet they seem to be in good terms still from what I've read.

[Gideon]

I make room for the likely possibility that all of them made personal developments and moved on with their lives.

[SherriBerry]

Funny how when HH talks about Perry, it's considered Gospel, yet when he says anything about other members of the band, it then it becomes conjecture.

I'm not going to try to start anything here, but if I recall, SherriBerry pulled a reverse on this. In one of our arguments, she frequently brought up Herbie's claims against Perry as an extension of bias, and yet when it comes to Cain, it's the gospel?

No, sorry, that doesn't fly. I'd like it clarified if she was endorsing Herbie's claims or merely throwing it out there as food for thought. Because if it's the former, I'd remind her that Herbie has gone on record condemning Cain as much as Perry, and what he said on the issue could also be the result of bias. If it's the latter, I'd compliment her on objective reporting.

Myself, I think HH has been a straight shooter concerning every member of the band. I don't doubt anything he says about either Perry or Cain. I think that's why he has no hesitation in what he says because none of the band members can refute him. I think if his statements were full of untruths, Neal wouldn't be still a friend of his, yet they seem to be in good terms still from what I've read.

I expect bias from everyone to a certain degree, so I never take anything as an absolute - I balance what is said against what is known from other sources and the motivation one may have in making particular statements and the probable downside if the statements were not factually true. Opinions are a rather grey area though. I agree with Gunbot that HH is a straight shooter, but people can say things in a certain way or leave out pertinent information that changes one's understanding of events which is why I do like to read as many different sources as possible and consider each statement separately.

In this case, if Herbie were merely commenting on Gregg Rolie's vocals versus Jon Cain's, there is an evident bias in Gregg Rolie's favour. But I see no reason that HH would lie on the record regarding the use of a hard drive just because he clearly dislikes Jon Cain - it would damage his own reputation and possibly his partnership and friendship with Neal, not to mention it may be actionable. There is no benefit to Herbie in lying about that, but a significant downside if he were, so I consider it more likely to be valid information. Balance that against their known willingness to use "vocal assistance" and no refuting comments from anyone in the Journey camp and it seems reasonable to conclude it is true.

I put the information out there for consideration regarding the theory that Journey is detuning in concert in an effort to assist the rest of the band in backing vocals, for if they do have prerecorded backing vocals to enhance sound and JC is singing with computer assistance, then detuning for them is unnecessary. Actually, I didn't think this would cause any ruffling, because many bands enhance concert sound with prerecorded vocals and a lot of performers use computers to enhance live vocals, so it wasn't meant as an accusation of "wrongdoing" and that's probably another reason why HH had no hesitation in his statement.

[Maui Tom]

So the guys jam with some family during LTS and it turns into this...what a fucking joke....

[steveo777]

So the guys jam with some family during LTS and it turns into this...what a fucking joke....

Tom, you can thank Aaron for starting the derailment of this thread.

I couldn't agree more. It is really cool to see the kids playing, good for them. I'd vote to have Cain's daughter sing the whole thing as well and sing the bastard in the right key. Arnel was all over the place and detuned, Jesus. The songs really loose their punch detuned. I made a good decision staying home this year.

Here's an example of the proper key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_aiRLbM0Y

And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnJnZhKwBk

Neat.

Miles sharing lead with his dad, Cains daughter sings a verse and Cains young son on drums for the LTS encore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoyOfLxb ... re=related

Edit: Better link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCUZwTw ... annel_page

That was fun, but they should have let Cains daughter sing the whole song, Arnel was all over the place!

There is always someone who has to show their ass and make a total penis of themself. I hope the penis is long enough, then I can give him instructions as to what to do with it.

[Andrew]

So the guys jam with some family during LTS and it turns into this...what a fucking joke....

Makes you wonder, eh?

[strangegrey]

No bullshit, this gave me goosebumps. These are good people and great family people. Look at how proud Neal is of his boy in this video. Good man. Jon is happy too. Anybody who has ever said a bad word about these guys as far as being bad people or bad family guys can eat shit and die.

Oh good lord Tito, really...please....do my gag reflex a favor and stfu on this.....ok? Your crusade to present Friga and Fro as good family men has really run it's course...

Obama looks like a great daddy, he marches his kids around like they're his pride and joy...Is he really a good dad? I have ZERO proof and neither do you.


In fairness to the new rule here, I wont bring up Neal's marrital record, only to say that any father that has kids, divorces, has more kids, divorces, and does it again and again....is a shitty father. A completely selfish prick that has given zero thought in shaping his actions, as to the welfare of the children he's fathered. Now, I'm not refering to Neal specifically...just any father that ruins his children's chances at having a fulfilling, strong family life. Just because that one dad does one thing that might be publically viewed as cool, doesn't erase the lifetime of shitty parenting. Especially when that one thing carries public karma...

Just because the guy parades his kid out on stage with him, it makes zero case that he's a good dad. That's like saying a murder convict is a good dad because his children show up at his parole hearings....wtf!??


I'll make you a deal....because my bile meter can't fucking take any more of this...

Stick to talking about Neal as a guitarist and a songwriter.....take the "He's such a good Dad" bullshit....and flush it down the toilet with your morning diahrea.....that's where it belongs.

If you flush that crap and stick to the important things, like his playing and his songwriting....I'll promise not to call your bullshit onto the mat, every time you parade it the fuck out like it's some stupid crusade you have to fight.

It's not only getting old, but it's fucking stale and incorrect.....they say the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Please....Seriously....stop parading this 'he's such a good family man' bullshit out.

I don't want to talk about his family man status here...I don't give a fuck about it....really..I dont......However, I certainly don't want to read your bullcrap either. A lifetime of proof explodes your bullshite in a new york minute.....but it doesn't and SHOULDNT play out here.


Stick to his fucking playing...please. That's the only argument you can win, in support of the man as anything good.....

[Aaron]

I didn't intend to derail the thread with my comments. I do think it was very cool to see the kids come out and play a bit.

Arnel being all over the place vocally and immediately picking up on the detuning just caught my ear.

So the guys jam with some family during LTS and it turns into this...what a fucking joke....

Tom, you can thank Aaron for starting the derailment of this thread.

I couldn't agree more. It is really cool to see the kids playing, good for them. I'd vote to have Cain's daughter sing the whole thing as well and sing the bastard in the right key. Arnel was all over the place and detuned, Jesus. The songs really loose their punch detuned. I made a good decision staying home this year.

Here's an example of the proper key:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV_aiRLbM0Y

And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTnJnZhKwBk

Neat.

Miles sharing lead with his dad, Cains daughter sings a verse and Cains young son on drums for the LTS encore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoyOfLxb ... re=related

Edit: Better link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCUZwTw ... annel_page

That was fun, but they should have let Cains daughter sing the whole song, Arnel was all over the place!

There is always someone who has to show their ass and make a total penis of themself. I hope the penis is long enough, then I can give him instructions as to what to do with it.

[Chubby321]

No bullshit, this gave me goosebumps. These are good people and great family people. Look at how proud Neal is of his boy in this video. Good man. Jon is happy too. Anybody who has ever said a bad word about these guys as far as being bad people or bad family guys can eat shit and die.

Oh good lord Tito, really...please....do my gag reflex a favor and stfu on this.....ok? Your crusade to present Friga and Fro as good family men has really run it's course...

Obama looks like a great daddy, he marches his kids around like they're his pride and joy...Is he really a good dad? I have ZERO proof and neither do you.


In fairness to the new rule here, I wont bring up Neal's marrital record, only to say that any father that has kids, divorces, has more kids, divorces, and does it again and again....is a shitty father. A completely selfish prick that has given zero thought in shaping his actions, as to the welfare of the children he's fathered. Now, I'm not refering to Neal specifically...just any father that ruins his children's chances at having a fulfilling, strong family life. Just because that one dad does one thing that might be publically viewed as cool, doesn't erase the lifetime of shitty parenting. Especially when that one thing carries public karma...

Just because the guy parades his kid out on stage with him, it makes zero case that he's a good dad. That's like saying a murder convict is a good dad because his children show up at his parole hearings....wtf!??

A one-woman man is not necessarily a good father. Having a father at home doesn’t always translate to a happy family. There fathers out there who are home everyday but hardly take care of their kids and rather spend time watching TV, going out with friends, do drugs and drink. There are fathers who are always home but beating the crap out of their kids. There are stay home dads that are abusing and molesting their own. Just sayin’

Miles seems fond of his Dad or else he would not even perform with him on the stage. Most likely Neal takes care of his kids financially which may not be everything but at least will give his kids better odds in life.

Before anybody judges somebody's parenting skills, look inside your family circle first. Peace