OT: Governor Sarah Palin Bails on Alaska

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Postby Voyager » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:19 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:This thread seems to be dominated exclusively by this board's token Liberals and Democrats. I'm curious to see what some of the more Conservative posters think this is all about. Anyway, I really don't give a damn, either way. Everyone knows it's going to be Beck-Limbaugh in 2012...or perhaps O'Reilly-Katz. Sanford-Stevens? Durenburger-Hutchison? The possibilities are limitless.


Ok here goes...

Career suicide...plain and simple...though I like Sarah Palin, the mismangement of her as a VP Candidate made her look unprepared for that office, let alone the office of President. Quitting as Governor only makes that look worse. IF this is a setup for her to run for President, I have news for her: She is UNELECTABLE. She was made to look the fool by the press and her handlers.

And it's probably going to be even worse now. She made a promise that she was going to serve her term out to the People of Alaska, and has now renigged on that promise. "Read my lips", anyone"? Politiicans who break promises tend not to go very much further.

Again I like Sarah Palin, but this is a DUMB move that is going to do nothing but compound the errors from the 2008 Presidential campaign.


Newt fucking Gingrich would have a better chance at a run for pres than Palin.

:lol:
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Postby treetopovskaya » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:07 pm

artist4perry wrote:Have you ever seen so many folks so frightened of one woman that this stuff is priority in their intrests? Sleep tight.........don't let the Republican Women bite. Funny how a woman so "Stupid and Irrelivant" has liberals concerned about everything she does....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Personally I like Mike Huckabee. :D


i dig that man... & he plays bass. }:C))
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Postby Lula » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:15 pm

Gunbot wrote:These are good people.


i'm gonna miss that gal :lol:
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Postby JH'sTXfan » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:22 pm

DrFU wrote:Wolf puppies everywhere are frolicking in celebration ...


:lol:
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Postby Peartree12249 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:23 pm

I wouldn't call myself a conservative, more a middle of the road independent. I voted for John McCain. Sarah Palin, I had mixed feelings about. She gave a good speech, but when she was being interviewed, I always held my breath wondering if she'd mess up and sometimes she did. IMO don't think she was qualified for the job of VP. I don't like quitters. If she doesn't have a very compelling reason for stepping down, then I think she made a very poor decision.
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Postby Lula » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:34 am

i watched her press conference last night. she didn't make too much sense. i gathered she wants to step down because she doesn't feel she can do her job with politics as usual in play. maybe being a small town mayor is more her speed or something. :?
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Postby BobbyinTN » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:51 am

She's a quitter. How dumb do you have to be to know that stepping down from your political job to go after another political job is career suicide?

Let her fade away and back into the woodwork.
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Postby treetopovskaya » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:52 am

Jana wrote:I am positively stunned. Who steps down b/c completing their term as governor? Only if there's scandal or illness. So which is it? Her reasons don't ring true. Actually, she's talking in circles. To me, this is the death knell for her further career aspirations as senator or president. The people of Alaska will turn on her for leaving office before completing her term after voting for her. Or am I wrong? Is this some brilliant career move? I can't see it, being a quitter and whining, acting like she's doing it for the people.


she mentioned trig... their special needs child. maybe he has something to do with her stepping down. seems like it was a family decision.
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Postby BobbyinTN » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:54 am

artist4perry wrote:Have you ever seen so many folks so frightened of one woman that this stuff is priority in their intrests? Sleep tight.........don't let the Republican Women bite. Funny how a woman so "Stupid and Irrelivant" has liberals concerned about everything she does....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Personally I like Mike Huckabee. :D


That's wishful thinking. No one that I know was afraid of Palin, we were just amazed that someone so stupid could get as much support as she did.
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Postby Lula » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:58 am

when she mentioned her boy trig, she used the little quotes with her fingers saying that "adults" were poking fun at trig or something...

never afraid of palin other than the slim chance that she might hold the second highest office in the land :shock: she just doesn't have the skills to govern at that level.

watch for a palin hosted show on fox :lol:
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Postby DrFU » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:00 am

From Slate:

14 Palin theories ... and counting: 1) She's running for president; 2) She's undergoing fame withdrawal and plans to get more attention in the lower 48; 3) She wants to cash in ($); 4) There's another shoe about to drop; 5) She'll now run against Murkowski for Senate. 6) She needs to tend to her family. 7) She's bonkers. 8) She's preggers. 9) She wants to "effect positive change outside government at this point in time on another scale and actually make a difference for our priorities." 10) Actually being a governor in a recession is no fun. Gives you ulcers. 11) She worried she wasn't giving "Alaska's issues" the attention they deserve, and was being criticized for that; 12) She's "fed up with politics ... the personal garbage" etc.. 13) She wants to fight back without one hand tied behind her back. 14) The Alaska legislature now hates her; ... These theories are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/kausfi ... ories.aspx
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Postby Voyager » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:14 am

CNN.com wrote:Alaskan Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell, who will succeed Gov. Sarah Palin, called her Alaska's greatest gift to the United States today.


Hahahahahaha!!! That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Kind of like Milli Vanilli was Germany's greatest gift to the music industry.

:lol: :roll: :lol:
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Postby strangegrey » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:58 am

Have any of you considered the possibility that maybe she just had enough. Hell, think about it. Ever since the day DisDain introduced her to the US located south of Canada, she has been a target of the left.

...and make no mistake, the left had been attacking her viscerally. They turned every fucking gun they had on her, and wouldn't stop shooting until there was nothing left to shoot at. The left was relentless....and fucking hell, MONTHS after DisDain lost....MONTHS after YoMama was sworn in as president....they STILL attacked her. They got a fucking patsy in Letterman (or maybe he did it willingly) to continue to attack this woman...LONG after it was over with....


Was she fair game during the election process? Yes. Did she set herself up for these attacks? Yes. Did she deserve each and every one of them, at the intensity it was levied by the press? No. Lets be serious....The vice presidential candidate on the left made equally STUPID statements during the election.....I still can't believe the current vice president thought that FDR was in office during the stock market crash and that TV's existed in every home? This person is a gunshot away from running this country....fucking scary!


But seriously....the left viscerally attacked Palin....and didn't let up until 2 days ago.



Think as a human being....not as a pinko-leftie or a right-winger.....but as a human being. How much of this shit are you prepared to take, before you can't do it anymore?

She was Quayled worse than Dan Quayle EVER got....


if she wants out, fucking let her. She deserves it after all the shit the vindictive left has put her through.






Regardless, I still have to wonder what exactly Sarah Palin had that made the left so fucking scared. Long after the election, the pinkos are still desperate to follow this poor woman's every fucking move.....and attack each and every move she makes. What was it?

a4p really hit the nail on the head:

artist4perry wrote:Have you ever seen so many folks so frightened of one woman that this stuff is priority in their intrests? Sleep tight.........don't let the Republican Women bite. Funny how a woman so "Stupid and Irrelivant" has liberals concerned about everything she does....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:23 am

strangegrey wrote:Have any of you considered the possibility that maybe she just had enough. Hell, think about it. Ever since the day DisDain introduced her to the US located south of Canada, she has been a target of the left.

...and make no mistake, the left had been attacking her viscerally. They turned every fucking gun they had on her, and wouldn't stop shooting until there was nothing left to shoot at. The left was relentless....and fucking hell, MONTHS after DisDain lost....MONTHS after YoMama was sworn in as president....they STILL attacked her. They got a fucking patsy in Letterman (or maybe he did it willingly) to continue to attack this woman...LONG after it was over with....


Was she fair game during the election process? Yes. Did she set herself up for these attacks? Yes. Did she deserve each and every one of them, at the intensity it was levied by the press? No. Lets be serious....The vice presidential candidate on the left made equally STUPID statements during the election.....I still can't believe the current vice president thought that FDR was in office during the stock market crash and that TV's existed in every home? This person is a gunshot away from running this country....fucking scary!


But seriously....the left viscerally attacked Palin....and didn't let up until 2 days ago.



Think as a human being....not as a pinko-leftie or a right-winger.....but as a human being. How much of this shit are you prepared to take, before you can't do it anymore?

She was Quayled worse than Dan Quayle EVER got....


if she wants out, fucking let her. She deserves it after all the shit the vindictive left has put her through.






Regardless, I still have to wonder what exactly Sarah Palin had that made the left so fucking scared. Long after the election, the pinkos are still desperate to follow this poor woman's every fucking move.....and attack each and every move she makes. What was it?

a4p really hit the nail on the head:

artist4perry wrote:Have you ever seen so many folks so frightened of one woman that this stuff is priority in their intrests? Sleep tight.........don't let the Republican Women bite. Funny how a woman so "Stupid and Irrelivant" has liberals concerned about everything she does....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


That's pretty rich coming from the same guy who had PalinasPresident.com as his sig line, not only during the campaign but even after the last vote had been counted.
For those unaware, that is probably the leading anti-Palin website in existence.
So I guess you are on Soros' payroll too, eh?
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Postby Jana » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:50 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
strangegrey wrote:Have any of you considered the possibility that maybe she just had enough. Hell, think about it. Ever since the day DisDain introduced her to the US located south of Canada, she has been a target of the left.

...and make no mistake, the left had been attacking her viscerally. They turned every fucking gun they had on her, and wouldn't stop shooting until there was nothing left to shoot at. The left was relentless....and fucking hell, MONTHS after DisDain lost....MONTHS after YoMama was sworn in as president....they STILL attacked her. They got a fucking patsy in Letterman (or maybe he did it willingly) to continue to attack this woman...LONG after it was over with....


Was she fair game during the election process? Yes. Did she set herself up for these attacks? Yes. Did she deserve each and every one of them, at the intensity it was levied by the press? No. Lets be serious....The vice presidential candidate on the left made equally STUPID statements during the election.....I still can't believe the current vice president thought that FDR was in office during the stock market crash and that TV's existed in every home? This person is a gunshot away from running this country....fucking scary!


But seriously....the left viscerally attacked Palin....and didn't let up until 2 days ago.



Think as a human being....not as a pinko-leftie or a right-winger.....but as a human being. How much of this shit are you prepared to take, before you can't do it anymore?

She was Quayled worse than Dan Quayle EVER got....


if she wants out, fucking let her. She deserves it after all the shit the vindictive left has put her through.






Regardless, I still have to wonder what exactly Sarah Palin had that made the left so fucking scared. Long after the election, the pinkos are still desperate to follow this poor woman's every fucking move.....and attack each and every move she makes. What was it?

a4p really hit the nail on the head:

artist4perry wrote:Have you ever seen so many folks so frightened of one woman that this stuff is priority in their intrests? Sleep tight.........don't let the Republican Women bite. Funny how a woman so "Stupid and Irrelivant" has liberals concerned about everything she does....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


That's pretty rich coming from a guy who had PalinasPresident.com as his sig line, not only during the campaign but even after the last vote had been counted.
For those unaware, that is probably the leading anti-Palin website in existence.
So I guess you are on Soros' payroll too, eh?


OMG, now Letterman is being blamed. First of all, Letterman it was documented was at the bottom of the list practically on number of jokes compared to Leno and others on late night TV. Now the left is being blamed. Come on, Frank.
My gal Hillary has been vilfilied, made fun of incessantly by comics, you name it she's been though it, treated with disrespect by even the left talking heads who were so pro Obama. Every time she was knocked down, she got up. She had the chops for the job of President. She could stand the heat. If Palin can't, fine. It's not my state she's not fulfilling her first term in. But if she steps down and then tries to say she's capable of running for president, I "ain't" buying it. My view is that there are many reasons, not just one, for her leaving, but that she is writing a book and will need to be on the road promoting it, etc. Her constituents were already complaining about the amount of time she had spent not focused on Alaska.

And my brother-in-law (Republican diehard) told me today he was behind her all the way before but leaving office early in her first term, when he knows he's going to see her out on her book tour and being paid big money at speaking engagements, that he would never vote for her for higher office after bailing out during her first term as governor. He said "You can't paint this to be good for her politically, no matter what. It doesn't stick." He told me he would never vote for Hillary Clinton because of her stance on issues, but agreed with me that she was a woman tough enough for the job, more so than many men.
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Postby Lula » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:01 am

oh geez, cry me a river! palin is a politician, plain and simple. i highly doubt she was forced to step down because of some lame attacks. she put herself out there, paraded her children, and gave some really funny interviews at the get go. book tour = more money and exposure than being governor of alaska.
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Postby Hollywood » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:07 am

If you don't want to get attacked, don't go into politics.

She opened herself up to the scrutiny, and some people went overboard, when she put herself on the ticket. Because she was so unknown to the media and the general public people had to look her up and investigate her. This brought up the negative and strange things in her past and that is where the focus was laid. She does have positive stuff out there that got overlooked.

If she is quitting to run for president she is a fool to think that walking away from the people that elected her is going to help. I had no overwhelming objection to her except her lack of experience. With the presidential election process and her time in Alaska and now on the big stage she could have done a lot to build herself up. Plus, she would have a full two years to work on her national campaign. Now she has four years city council, 6 years mayor, 2+ years as governor. This a hurdle she will have to overcome, but it's achievable. However the fact that she is walking away from her postition without giving any valid reason means she will never get my vote. She acts like a victim too much. Nobody I know on the left is scared of her. They do not like her, but are not scared of her. This may make her unelectable to a higher office.

I am in Nevada and our current Repulican Governor is a total trainwreck. He has been the punchline on Letterman, Leno, and the tabloid shows. He gets inundated with ethics complaints some vaild, some not. She is on a bigger stage therefore gets more attention. Obama is relentlessly attacked and has been since his speech at the DNC in 2004. Some valid, some not.
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Postby Jana » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:08 am

BobbyinTN wrote:
artist4perry wrote:Have you ever seen so many folks so frightened of one woman that this stuff is priority in their intrests? Sleep tight.........don't let the Republican Women bite. Funny how a woman so "Stupid and Irrelivant" has liberals concerned about everything she does....... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Personally I like Mike Huckabee. :D


That's wishful thinking. No one that I know was afraid of Palin, we were just amazed that someone so stupid could get as much support as she did.


Amen. When FF on another thread once said the left was afraid of Palin, I was dumbfounded. Democrats wanted Palin to run next election, because even if Obama's approval ratings were low he would be a shoo-in against Palin.

This is news. She was on the GOP ticket last year and has been being touted by many on the right as running for POTUS in the next election. So bailing out of your first term with a rambling press conference is news.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:19 am

The left has made a stupid strategic mistake here by the way that they were pilloring Palin after the election. It made her quit. She was a weak candidate and would have been canon fodder for Obama in 2012. Now hes gonna face someone with gravitas and political sense. They should have just left her alone and gently let her build herself up, then slammed her in 2012.

However the left just couldnt help themselves, they just had to keep making sport of her. DUMB
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Postby Lula » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:30 am

just what exactly has the "left" been doing to palin? seriously.
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Postby Jana » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:28 am

"But in a statement posted on Palin's Facebook account, she suggested that she had bigger plans and a national agenda she planned to push after she resigns at the end of the month.

"I am now looking ahead and how we can advance this country together with our values of less government intervention, greater energy independence, stronger national security, and much-needed fiscal restraint," she said.

Palin also cast herself as a victim and blasted the media, calling the response to her announcement "predictable" and out of touch.

"How sad that Washington and the media will never understand; it's about country," the statement said. "And though it's honorable for countless others to leave their positions for a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I make."


Well, there you have it, "a higher calling" for leaving 18 months b/f her first term is up.
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Postby Lula » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:36 am

she never disappoints!! :lol:
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Postby Rick » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:52 am

Hollywood wrote:If you don't want to get attacked, don't go into politics.

She opened herself up to the scrutiny, and some people went overboard, when she put herself on the ticket. Because she was so unknown to the media and the general public people had to look her up and investigate her. This brought up the negative and strange things in her past and that is where the focus was laid. She does have positive stuff out there that got overlooked.

If she is quitting to run for president she is a fool to think that walking away from the people that elected her is going to help. I had no overwhelming objection to her except her lack of experience. With the presidential election process and her time in Alaska and now on the big stage she could have done a lot to build herself up. Plus, she would have a full two years to work on her national campaign. Now she has four years city council, 6 years mayor, 2+ years as governor. This a hurdle she will have to overcome, but it's achievable. However the fact that she is walking away from her postition without giving any valid reason means she will never get my vote. She acts like a victim too much. Nobody I know on the left is scared of her. They do not like her, but are not scared of her. This may make her unelectable to a higher office.

I am in Nevada and our current Repulican Governor is a total trainwreck. He has been the punchline on Letterman, Leno, and the tabloid shows. He gets inundated with ethics complaints some vaild, some not. She is on a bigger stage therefore gets more attention. Obama is relentlessly attacked and has been since his speech at the DNC in 2004. Some valid, some not.


She got the feel of the limelight, and is now discomforted as being only a Governor.

She's got a little over a year left and is bailing out. The people of Alaska put enough faith in her to elect her that states highest position, and what does she do? Shows no appreciation whatsoever. Couldn't fucking stick it out to the end of the term.

She's ruined. If she wasn't already.

I also think that maybe she's quitting because there just might be some condemning news about to hit the airways. That would be unfortunate, but, if you're in politics, you have to try to keep your nose clean.
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Postby Hollywood » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:59 am

Jana wrote:"But in a statement posted on Palin's Facebook account, she suggested that she had bigger plans and a national agenda she planned to push after she resigns at the end of the month.

"I am now looking ahead and how we can advance this country together with our values of less government intervention, greater energy independence, stronger national security, and much-needed fiscal restraint," she said.

Palin also cast herself as a victim and blasted the media, calling the response to her announcement "predictable" and out of touch.

"How sad that Washington and the media will never understand; it's about country," the statement said. "And though it's honorable for countless others to leave their positions for a higher calling and without finishing a term, of course we know by now, for some reason a different standard applies for the decisions I make."


Well, there you have it, "a higher calling" for leaving 18 months b/f her first term is up.



Wow. I just posted on how she has this complex that she is being unfairly attacked and she goes and says something ridiculous like that.

Plenty of politicians take higher offices and leave their current ones once elected. Granted

Who walks out on their state before their term is up to go to a 'higher calling'? If that means the presidency than no one has ever done this that I am aware of. You could finish your term and then run.
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Postby Jana » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:26 am

Rick wrote:
Hollywood wrote:If you don't want to get attacked, don't go into politics.

She opened herself up to the scrutiny, and some people went overboard, when she put herself on the ticket. Because she was so unknown to the media and the general public people had to look her up and investigate her. This brought up the negative and strange things in her past and that is where the focus was laid. She does have positive stuff out there that got overlooked.

If she is quitting to run for president she is a fool to think that walking away from the people that elected her is going to help. I had no overwhelming objection to her except her lack of experience. With the presidential election process and her time in Alaska and now on the big stage she could have done a lot to build herself up. Plus, she would have a full two years to work on her national campaign. Now she has four years city council, 6 years mayor, 2+ years as governor. This a hurdle she will have to overcome, but it's achievable. However the fact that she is walking away from her postition without giving any valid reason means she will never get my vote. She acts like a victim too much. Nobody I know on the left is scared of her. They do not like her, but are not scared of her. This may make her unelectable to a higher office.

I am in Nevada and our current Repulican Governor is a total trainwreck. He has been the punchline on Letterman, Leno, and the tabloid shows. He gets inundated with ethics complaints some vaild, some not. She is on a bigger stage therefore gets more attention. Obama is relentlessly attacked and has been since his speech at the DNC in 2004. Some valid, some not.


She got the feel of the limelight, and is now discomforted as being only a Governor.

She's got a little over a year left and is bailing out. The people of Alaska put enough faith in her to elect her that states highest position, and what does she do? Shows no appreciation whatsoever. Couldn't fucking stick it out to the end of the term.

She's ruined. If she wasn't already.

I also think that maybe she's quitting because there just might be some condemning news about to hit the airways. That would be unfortunate, but, if you're in politics, you have to try to keep your nose clean.


I always watch Morning Joe. I may be Democrat, but his show I watch religiously even though I don't agree with him on certain issues. I like him and his guests on there. He brings all viewpoints on there. Joe gave a brief interview and said he heard no compelling reason for her to leave two and a half years into her first term as governor. He said he didn't see how she could be elected as POTUS. That her conservative base would follow her probably still, but that the Republican moderates and middle America she doesn't have a chance now with this and so would be unelectable. He also said McCain sprung his VP pick on everyone, and she was an unknown. She had no exposure or experience on the national stage, and, therefore, untested on how she would handle it. He seemed to indicate that was a big mistake; you need to pick someone with I think he said a year or a couple years of exposure on the national stage. And that she just decided she had had enought and wanted out. I'll be watching Monday to see what he says on his show.
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Postby Lula » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:37 am

keep me posted, jana ;)
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Postby Monker » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:39 pm

strangegrey wrote:0She was Quayled worse than Dan Quayle EVER got....


That's because she was even less experienced and ignorant then Quayle.
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Postby SherriBerry » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:44 pm

I think Sarah Palin is a good person, but she is just not qualified for higher office - she has neither the experience nor the intelligence. A comedy duo from Quebec got through to her during the campaign and pranked her into thinking she was speaking to French President Nicholas Sarkozy. She came across as a complete dingdong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbEwKcs-7Hc

I don't believe someone needs a fancy degree to be qualified - Abraham Lincoln was a self-taught lawyer with no formal education, but common sense goes a long way. She did not even know the basic responsibilities of VP months into the campaign! And why is it she could not name anything that she read to stay informed? At first I really liked her, and perhaps she could do no worse as VP than Dan Quayle or Joe Biden, but she would be a disaster as POTUS. One of the first things she did as mayor was look into removing questionable books from the local library and got told any attempt to impose censorship would be fought. Translate that mentality to leader of the country.

Unless she has a compelling reason for bailing on the people of Alaska that is not solely based on personal gain, she just demonstrated a complete lack of commitment to her constituents and the trust they placed in her.
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Postby NealIsGod » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:39 am

I think she got used to being pampered while running for VP and realizes how much money she can make if she can devote all of her time to making hay while the sun shines.
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Postby strangegrey » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:50 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:That's pretty rich coming from the same guy who had PalinasPresident.com as his sig line, not only during the campaign but even after the last vote had been counted.
For those unaware, that is probably the leading anti-Palin website in existence.
So I guess you are on Soros' payroll too, eh?


ABSOLUTELY....


I was 100% against Sarah Palin (and the fucking idiot who picked her)....during the election. I am a conservative, and I felt that a DisDain/Palin presidency would have destroyed the right FAR more than a YoMama/Bile-man presidency ever could....and I still feel that way.



But the election ended over half a year ago. The left (and the complacent media) never stopped hounding this woman...

So a few days ago, she wants out. Can you blame her? If I had a Frankaspresident.com flash site that was half as visceral as the one designed for palin....and the nastiness was still boiling 7 months after I lost the election, I'd want out too....


Some in this thread have said that it's politics, she has to deal with it.....yep! I agree one hundred percent.But now, she wants out. She wants out of politics.....so turn off the fucking cannons.


Let her go.


Hell, that's what the fucking pinkos wanted....right?


You got what you wanted....yet 99% of those in sitting left and right of the aisle can't deal with that....



Listen, if Sarah Palin uses this scenario as some sort of Political tool/strategy, I will be the FIRST fucking person to pack a 10-foot cannon with buckshot and yell "FIRE!"

But unless that actually happens, why not respect her wishes....let her go home to Wassila and stay out of our way....
Last edited by strangegrey on Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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