After Watching Oprah.....

[Carlitto H@kk]

1. The band was not getting any younger and the window of opportunity was closing in.
2. Steve Perry gave no committments of when he would return.
3. Friendship or no friendship, you have a business to run and the rest of the band needs to make a living
4. Don't be ridiculous! They did what they had to do.

I really hate to agree with Steve here but he's right.
For whatever reason, Perry doesn't want to do all this anymore.
The band moved on and we've gotten some great years out of them.

It's some of the shady shit that has transpired over the past
2-3 years that has left a sour taste in some of our mouths.
And now we are stuck with a new singer that :
1. Is a genuine, super nice guy w/ a really great, feel-good story.
2. Sounds fantastic on his own material; Revalation is really a fantastic album.
3. Really doesn't do the older material justice; tries to hard to make them his own and winds up
ruining most of them in the process.

But hey, I guess some Journey is better than no Journey, right?

I'm still a Loon though and I still think Perry and the boys will
eventually kiss & make up, and put this beast to bed together someday

[portland]

1. The band was not getting any younger and the window of opportunity was closing in.
2. Steve Perry gave no committments of when he would return.
3. Friendship or no friendship, you have a business to run and the rest of the band needs to make a living
4. Don't be ridiculous! They did what they had to do.

I really hate to agree with Steve here but he's right.
For whatever reason, Perry doesn't want to do all this anymore.
The band moved on and we've gotten some great years out of them.

It's some of the shady shit that has transpired over the past
2-3 years that has left a sour taste in some of our mouths.
And now we are stuck with a new singer that :
1. Is a genuine, super nice guy w/ a really great, feel-good story.
2. Sounds fantastic on his own material; Revalation is really a fantastic album.
3. Really doesn't do the older material justice; tries to hard to make them his own and winds up
ruining most of them in the process.

But hey, I guess some Journey is better than no Journey, right?

I'm still a Loon though and I still think Perry and the boys will
eventually kiss & make up, and put this beast to bed together someday

I agree.....as a loon I want it to end with them on a stage together...that would be the best way to end it...but I don't believe that it will happen...but I can hope and sometimes that is all you get

[perryswoman]

I still think Perry has not done anything in years because his contract he signed that allowed him to be paid like a "mo fo" hasn't allowed him until now.

[journeywoman]

I've decided that I'm a big fan of SP and am still a huge fan of Journey. I mean, can't you be both?

Yes, I'm still pissed that SP and the band couldn't/wouldn't work it out and that we don't get to hear them together anymore, and yes I still blame Jon and Neal for not waiting longer, but being that that's how it is, I'm still very happy that Journey is still playing that music and getting that great, positve music out there to a new generation.

After watching how it still affects people to hear that stuff, it's pretty moving to see.

Arnel is a hell of a nice, modest guy and while he's not near the singer SP was/is, he IS really, really good and better than about anyone else now.

Can't wait to hear SP's new stuff.
Still dig hearing Arnel sing the hits.
Still hoping to one day hear SP sing with the band again.

Bottom line: SP and Journey still kick everyone's ass!

Very well said, you can be a fan of both

[Jana]

They would not have a few bad selling records and one decent one and they would have a little less money in the bank, and they would have waited on one of the most anticipated reunion tours of all time.

They would have been playing the places they're playing now times 10.

I just don't get this "they shoulda waited" line of thinking. What on earth makes anyone think that Perry ever had any intention of returning, surgery or no surgery?? Let's face it if Perry's past actions were any indication of his future actions, the band was right to cut it's losses when it did. In fact, they may have waited a little longer than they really should have. Perry had already taken one rather extended hiatus, and only returned to the band, by some accounts, under an immense amount of pressure applied by Sony to fulfill his contractual obligation to complete the last record.

IMO, after the shortened ROR tour, when Perry told Jon & Neal "I don't want to/can't do this anymore", he really meant just that, and they should have taken him at his word.

+1.

My sentiments exactly!!!

+2 Thank you, Jubilee. Voice of reason as always.

But I still give Madsplash credit for this nice thread he started and sense of goodwill in it towards Journey and Arnel. And he just can't help it. He will always have the strong opinion that Perry would have returned and toured for TBF and feel they should have waited.

[kgdjpubs]

I still think Perry has not done anything in years because his contract he signed that allowed him to be paid like a "mo fo" hasn't allowed him until now.

Perry's a lot of things. Stupid, he isn't. He's also got a bunch of $$$, which means he can afford a very good lawyer. Most of them are pretty smart also. There's no way Perry would have signed a contract prohibiting him to release an album unless he knew he could never perform again. Anyways, I think the I Stand Alone track and the GH+5 cd package would have invalidated that clause--which doesn't exist.

[kgdjpubs]

They would not have a few bad selling records and one decent one and they would have a little less money in the bank, and they would have waited on one of the most anticipated reunion tours of all time.

They would have been playing the places they're playing now times 10.

If Perry ever comes back, that reunion tour will be as big as it ever was--probably even bigger as Journey has managed to keep their name out there. That big paycheck is still out there, and it will be as long as Perry and the rest are the guys are alive.

[Author2]

and yes I still blame Jon and Neal for not waiting longer

How could they have POSSIBLY waited any longer?
Given how how '87-early '98 played out I think they waited way TOO long after the release of TBF to pull the plug AND was pissed they even went back with him in the FIRST place.

Listen, if someone is really your friend and you really only care about the legacy that you created with that person, you wait as long as that person needs.
I mean, they waited from 87 to 96, what the hell is the difference if it takes another year or two? With the buzz TBF created by debuting at #3, it would have only been bigger a little bit later.

One could argue though that if Neal and Jon waited, then they could end up like the Perry fans still waiting until now.

Exactly! If Perry was ever coming back to perform in any capacity he would have done it years ago. So, back to that part about waiting. Where would Journey be today if they had waited for Steve? Be honest with yourselves....you all know the answer.

They would not have a few bad selling records and one decent one and they would have a little less money in the bank, and they would have waited on one of the most anticipated reunion tours of all time.

They would have been playing the places they're playing now times 10.

Delusional. Perry did nothing for thirteen years. And what's the bet that he will not be singing live in concert if this album comes out? There's your answer for why Journey needed to move on. Perry always wanted to be a solo artist. Why he's done nothing for all these years is just a guess.

Come on don't spoil the thread it was going so nicely.

[Michigan Girl]

They would not have a few bad selling records and one decent one and they would have a little less money in the bank, and they would have waited on one of the most anticipated reunion tours of all time.

They would have been playing the places they're playing now times 10.

If Perry ever comes back, that reunion tour will be as big as it ever was--probably even bigger as Journey has managed to keep their name out there. That big paycheck is still out there, and it will be as long as Perry and the rest are the guys are alive.

I agree with this statement. I wish it would happen, but my glass is half empty here!!!

[ttango1]

I've decided that I'm a big fan of SP and am still a huge fan of Journey. I mean, can't you be both?

Yes, I'm still pissed that SP and the band couldn't/wouldn't work it out and that we don't get to hear them together anymore, and yes I still blame Jon and Neal for not waiting longer, but being that that's how it is, I'm still very happy that Journey is still playing that music and getting that great, positve music out there to a new generation.

After watching how it still affects people to hear that stuff, it's pretty moving to see.

Arnel is a hell of a nice, modest guy and while he's not near the singer SP was/is, he IS really, really good and better than about anyone else now.

Can't wait to hear SP's new stuff.
Still dig hearing Arnel sing the hits.
Still hoping to one day hear SP sing with the band again.

Bottom line: SP and Journey still kick everyone's ass!

Very well said, you can be a fan of both

I said this months and months ago. I'm glad it's coming to fruition that this is the best course of action.

I disagree with CHokk ABOUT HIS 3RD POINT but at the sametime accept his right to format his opinion. Different strokes...

Anyways- Go Journey Go!

[The Sushi Hunter]

and yes I still blame Jon and Neal for not waiting longer

How could they have POSSIBLY waited any longer?
Given how how '87-early '98 played out I think they waited way TOO long after the release of TBF to pull the plug AND was pissed they even went back with him in the FIRST place.

Listen, if someone is really your friend and you really only care about the legacy that you created with that person, you wait as long as that person needs.
I mean, they waited from 87 to 96, what the hell is the difference if it takes another year or two? With the buzz TBF created by debuting at #3, it would have only been bigger a little bit later.

One could argue though that if Neal and Jon waited, then they could end up like the Perry fans still waiting until now.

Exactly! If Perry was ever coming back to perform in any capacity he would have done it years ago. So, back to that part about waiting. Where would Journey be today if they had waited for Steve? Be honest with yourselves....you all know the answer.

They would not have a few bad selling records and one decent one and they would have a little less money in the bank, and they would have waited on one of the most anticipated reunion tours of all time.

They would have been playing the places they're playing now times 10.

Well only if SP in fact would have come back. What are the chances he would have? And what is the likelyhood that he would have? I see no indication what so ever that SP has any intentions of ever going back to Journey. So the rest of the band must lose out becasue of that? Reminds me of the children in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome chasing after something that was but never will be again.....tomorrow-morrow land.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVK4iCHJ2gQ

And I'm completely convinced that SP would have never return to Journey, ever. Hell he doesn't even sing at all alone or with others, what makes anyone think he'd ever have joined back with Journey if he's not even singing anymore? Either he can't or....he doesn't want to. Either way, it's not fair for the other's not to continue with what they love to do in their lives. IMO Journey has done the right thing by getting someone who can sing and can jel with the band well. So lets face it......SP is only coming back in a re-run, unless of course he proves otherwise, which I'm completely looking forward to such an occurance taking place. But on the other hand, I won't be holding my breath for it either.

[donnaplease]

1. The band was not getting any younger and the window of opportunity was closing in.
2. Steve Perry gave no committments of when he would return.
3. Friendship or no friendship, you have a business to run and the rest of the band needs to make a living
4. Don't be ridiculous! They did what they had to do.

I really hate to agree with Steve here but he's right.
For whatever reason, Perry doesn't want to do all this anymore.
The band moved on and we've gotten some great years out of them.

It's some of the shady shit that has transpired over the past
2-3 years that has left a sour taste in some of our mouths.
And now we are stuck with a new singer that :
1. Is a genuine, super nice guy w/ a really great, feel-good story.
2. Sounds fantastic on his own material; Revalation is really a fantastic album.
3. Really doesn't do the older material justice; tries to hard to make them his own and winds up
ruining most of them in the process.

But hey, I guess some Journey is better than no Journey, right?

I'm still a Loon though and I still think Perry and the boys will
eventually kiss & make up, and put this beast to bed together someday

Carl, I think that perhaps Neal & Jon had no real clue how much of an impact SP really was in that band. I wonder if they thought just 'any' singer would do, as long as he sounded close enough. That's where SA came in. He did a pretty darn good job for 8 years, but eventually burned out. I doubt that they realized how attached to SP and his contribution to the band that people were. Now they're kinda stuck. That's where the whole 'legacy sound' thing comes from. If they can fool enough people into not caring who is singing the songs, they can continue to have a decent career. It's working out okay for their pocketbooks, but IMO it's tarnishing the reputation of the band.

Did they have to wait for him? No, of course not. Hindsight is always 20/20 though, so I have to wonder if they regret their decision now. I can guarantee you that even if they do, that's one revelation that will never be shared...

[Esc]

oprah makes grown men cry.

[Pelata]

But hey, I guess some Journey is better than no Journey, right?

No.

[stevew2]

oprah makes grown men cry.

If i had that cow on top of me i d be cry to crawl out from under that heap

[StoneCold]

oprah makes grown men cry.

If i had that cow on top of me i d be cry to crawl out from under that heap

How now?

[The Sushi Hunter]

oprah makes grown men cry.

If i had that cow on top of me i d be cry to crawl out from under that heap

How now?

So is this the Crazy Cow cereal commercial from the late 70's or what?

[Esc]

oprah makes grown men cry.

If i had that cow on top of me i d be cry to crawl out from under that heap

lol.
i was just picking on madsplash going soft after watching oprah.

[annie89509]

WELL ... since we all here are just speculating ... how do we know for sure SP would not have re-joined at some point (after he have had his surgery and re-gained his strength)? Remember ... he didn't say “you guys can’t go on without me” ... just to “leave the Journey name alone” – (maybe) until he’s healthy and able to come back.

Seems to me Neal/Jon broke the bond by hiring and announcing SA as the new lead singer of Journey -- instead of simply referring to SA as a new bandmember for touring (ala Randy Jackson and Mike Baird for ROR). By taking such a drastic (permanent) action, they effectively shut the door. I don't care how many times Neal mentions "open invitation." Given SP's sensitivity and pride, is he going to crawl back to the house he helped built through many years of sweat and tears when another man(now men) have moved into the master bedroom? It was Jon that related this Steve quote (on the BTM show): "You know, there's no going back." I think we can all agree that SP (probably) is a man of his word.

So ... why nothing for 12 years? I really don't have an answer to that as I have no clue to the inner workings of the man. I don't, however, buy the premise that his preference was always as a solo artist ... so therefore, it proves he either would not or could not sing anymore, so therefore, Journey would be waiting in vain.

Whether one believes him or not ... SP has said it was Neal's outside efforts that prompted him to go solo with Street Talk. And, referring back to those ST promo interviews, Steve was already talking about doing 1 more solo album to complement ST. AgainstTheWall was a false start, but FTLOSM stucked. Again, referring back to past interview articles …when asked why he was touring solo (without the Journey guys), his answer was always “why not?” Everyone was into something different at the time. It was only natural that he did his own thing, too. However, he was never quoted as saying they were through. How many musicians are both solo and in bands? Too many to count. There simply is no factual basis to determine that SP cared only about soloing and not singing with Journey.

I would agree Sony (through JohnK.) pressed the issue to get the band back together. I believe, too, that all band members involved realized that, together, they are(were) more successful than separately. I don’t think anyone needed much arm-twisting to get back together for TBF. Shame everything had to end the way it did. I guess it just adds fodder for the many factions of Journey fans to debate over …and why we bother to come to this forum in the first place
.

[perryswoman]

I still think Perry has not done anything in years because his contract he signed that allowed him to be paid like a "mo fo" hasn't allowed him until now.

Perry's a lot of things. Stupid, he isn't. He's also got a bunch of $$$, which means he can afford a very good lawyer. Most of them are pretty smart also. There's no way Perry would have signed a contract prohibiting him to release an album unless he knew he could never perform again. Anyways, I think the I Stand Alone track and the GH+5 cd package would have invalidated that clause--which doesn't exist.

Okay let me rephrase what I meant. What I meant was I believe this so called contract continued to pay Perry for 10 years as a full time member of the band but at the same time barring him from singing Journey songs on his own. We all know he wouldn't have been successful out there singing a few song from street talk, ftlosm, and any other cd without singing the old journey tunes that we all love to hear him singing. This is my belief and has been hinted lots of times in the past.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Well how do we know he had hip surgery anyways? He's a small guy who's never been over weight and he's not gotten sloshed and injured himself like EVH did to receive his hip replacement. I'm just wondering if hip surgery is what's been claimed but in reality it was something else that has to do with his ability to sing.

I hate to be pessimistic but I don't ever believe we will ever hear SP sing again.

Look at the big picture here, the guy hasn't sang a note in public for what.....11 years plus? If he could still sing don't you think he'd be doing something like solo or project orientated? Come on now, the guy had one of the top 100 best male voices in music history. With that he'd be singing something.

[WalkInMyShoes]

[quote="The Sushi Hunter"]Well how do we know he had hip surgery anyways? He's a small guy who's never been over weight and he's not gotten sloshed and injured himself like EVH did to receive his hip replacement. I'm just wondering if hip surgery is what's been claimed but in reality it was something else that has to do with his ability to sing.

Just an FYI in some reading I've done, there are causes other than osteoarthritis (degenerative arthritis) that require hip replacement surgery. There are acquired problems like avascular necrosis and some congenital problems that cause slow, progressive damage that can be suddenly worsened by an acute injury (the hiking injury in Hawaii). That being said, even though he was a major player in Journey, you can't blame the group for wanting to go on without him after a year or two.

In my humble opinion, Perry has been plaqued by indecision his whole life. He has so many interests that it's hard to commit to one; his goal of perfection adds to this. If you listen to interviews, year after year he says he's working on something exciting, different, etc. but nothing ever comes out. I definitely don't think he would ever tour again. Being a longtime fan, I'd be first in line if I'm wrong.

[Tomulator]

They would not have a few bad selling records and one decent one and they would have a little less money in the bank, and they would have waited on one of the most anticipated reunion tours of all time.

They would have been playing the places they're playing now times 10.

If Perry ever comes back, that reunion tour will be as big as it ever was--probably even bigger as Journey has managed to keep their name out there. That big paycheck is still out there, and it will be as long as Perry and the rest are the guys are alive.

I agree with this statement. I wish it would happen, but my glass is half empty here!!!

Mine's "half empty" as well...and LEAKING!

[kgdjpubs]

I still think Perry has not done anything in years because his contract he signed that allowed him to be paid like a "mo fo" hasn't allowed him until now.

Perry's a lot of things. Stupid, he isn't. He's also got a bunch of $$$, which means he can afford a very good lawyer. Most of them are pretty smart also. There's no way Perry would have signed a contract prohibiting him to release an album unless he knew he could never perform again. Anyways, I think the I Stand Alone track and the GH+5 cd package would have invalidated that clause--which doesn't exist.

Okay let me rephrase what I meant. What I meant was I believe this so called contract continued to pay Perry for 10 years as a full time member of the band but at the same time barring him from singing Journey songs on his own. We all know he wouldn't have been successful out there singing a few song from street talk, ftlosm, and any other cd without singing the old journey tunes that we all love to hear him singing. This is my belief and has been hinted lots of times in the past.

Let me rephrase also. The only way Perry (or any musician out there) would EVER agree to such a clause in a contract would be if they had no intent on ever performing again. Nobody commits career suicide just to get paid--and forcing Perry to not perform Journey songs means he can't perform for 10 years and that would be commiting career suicide.

If money was the object, he could make a lot more money hiring a backup band and touring 5-10k venues than sitting waiting for checks from Journey---especially since he would be getting some of them anyways via royalty payments.

I just don't buy it. You don't throw away 10 years of a precarious solo career unless you weren't planning to continue said solo career.

[perryswoman]

They would not have a few bad selling records and one decent one and they would have a little less money in the bank, and they would have waited on one of the most anticipated reunion tours of all time.

They would have been playing the places they're playing now times 10.

If Perry ever comes back, that reunion tour will be as big as it ever was--probably even bigger as Journey has managed to keep their name out there. That big paycheck is still out there, and it will be as long as Perry and the rest are the guys are alive.

I agree with this statement. I wish it would happen, but my glass is half empty here!!!

Mine's "half empty" as well...and LEAKING!

I know I get so excited just thinking about Neal, Perry, Cain, and Deen on that stage together and hey I'm not at all opposed to Arnel singing Revelation songs. Would make my like complete!!

[kgdjpubs]

They would not have a few bad selling records and one decent one and they would have a little less money in the bank, and they would have waited on one of the most anticipated reunion tours of all time.

They would have been playing the places they're playing now times 10.

If Perry ever comes back, that reunion tour will be as big as it ever was--probably even bigger as Journey has managed to keep their name out there. That big paycheck is still out there, and it will be as long as Perry and the rest are the guys are alive.

I agree with this statement. I wish it would happen, but my glass is half empty here!!!

Mine's "half empty" as well...and LEAKING!

ahh, forget that. I went from the McDonald's SuperSize cup to the kids cup a while back, and I'm thinking of downsizing again.

[Tomulator]

I still think Perry has not done anything in years because his contract he signed that allowed him to be paid like a "mo fo" hasn't allowed him until now.

I think it's pretty clear that SP has not done much (any) singing/performing in the "post Journey" years because he has not been able to sing well enough. His "legacy" prevented him due to the inescapable comparisons to Perry circa 1980's.

My personal belief is that he has just recently "come to grips" with his understandably diminished vocal abilities and has decided to "test the waters" again. One thing I can tell you...when/if we hear SP sing again, it will sound different than what most are accustomed to hearing. He's 60 years old you know?!

Sad facts I'm afraid.

[Rick]

I still think Perry has not done anything in years because his contract he signed that allowed him to be paid like a "mo fo" hasn't allowed him until now.

I think it's pretty clear that SP has not done much (any) singing/performing in the "post Journey" years because he has not been able to sing well enough. His "legacy" prevented him due to the inescapable comparisons to Perry circa 1980's.

My personal belief is that he has just recently "come to grips" with his understandably diminished vocal abilities and has decided to "test the waters" again. One thing I can tell you...when/if we hear SP sing again, it will sound different than what most are accustomed to hearing. He's 60 years old you know?!

Sad facts I'm afraid.

I think you're right on the money here.

I'm like the loons, and don't care if he sounds like Darth Vader, I just want to hear him doing something.

[Ehwmatt]

I still think Perry has not done anything in years because his contract he signed that allowed him to be paid like a "mo fo" hasn't allowed him until now.

I think it's pretty clear that SP has not done much (any) singing/performing in the "post Journey" years because he has not been able to sing well enough. His "legacy" prevented him due to the inescapable comparisons to Perry circa 1980's.

My personal belief is that he has just recently "come to grips" with his understandably diminished vocal abilities and has decided to "test the waters" again. One thing I can tell you...when/if we hear SP sing again, it will sound different than what most are accustomed to hearing. He's 60 years old you know?!

Sad facts I'm afraid.

I think the diminishment in his capability is much greater to his own ears than it would be to us. There are lots of great singers around his age that whose voices have aged noticeably, but VERY gracefully. Someone who really does well is Daryl Hall. He sounds "older" and he might not be able to quite reach a few notes right at the top of the range any more, but he still sounds like Daryl, the fans still eat it up, and he still sounds great. I suspect SP is the same.

[Tomulator]

I still think Perry has not done anything in years because his contract he signed that allowed him to be paid like a "mo fo" hasn't allowed him until now.

I think it's pretty clear that SP has not done much (any) singing/performing in the "post Journey" years because he has not been able to sing well enough. His "legacy" prevented him due to the inescapable comparisons to Perry circa 1980's.

My personal belief is that he has just recently "come to grips" with his understandably diminished vocal abilities and has decided to "test the waters" again. One thing I can tell you...when/if we hear SP sing again, it will sound different than what most are accustomed to hearing. He's 60 years old you know?!

Sad facts I'm afraid.

I think the diminishment in his capability is much greater to his own ears than it would be to us. There are lots of great singers around his age that whose voices have aged noticeably, but VERY gracefully. Someone who really does well is Daryl Hall. He sounds "older" and he might not be able to quite reach a few notes right at the top of the range any more, but he still sounds like Daryl, the fans still eat it up, and he still sounds great. I suspect SP is the same.

My hope (more of a pipe-dream really) is that SP will sound somewhere between ROR and TBF in terms of his vocal range / clarity. It would be awesome if the rumors turn out to be true and he had some "magical" vocal procedure which brought back alot of his range...but...I truly doubt it.

Perry is a "victim" of his own past success...he can never compare to it and, in his mind, every time he releases something...it diminishes his reputation/legacy.