Matthew wrote:Monker wrote:Jonathan has a songwriting credit on EVERY JOURNEY SONG from Escape to Arrival. So, he had a hand in writing the harder songs as well as the ballads. That is just a simple FACT. I think Jonathan could write any 'style' of music he wanted to..but that's just my opinion.
Perry had a hand in writing the harder songs too. Fact.
Perry should take responsibility for EVERYTHING that happened with ROR because he took over the band. He produced, he directed the songwriting, he fired and picked the replacements for Ross and Steve Smith, he chose the artwork, he chose the album title. HE controlled ROR...and should take responsibility for all of the negativity that surrounded it. HE put his own face in the atmosphere and had it scorched on reentry and burned himself out. Nobody forced him to do it - he made that decision himself.
You make Cain and Schon sound so passive and pathetic. Yes, Perry produced the album and he was responsible for the 50's pop influence on one or two tracks. But Cain and Schon co-wrote the material on this record so some of the 'responsibility' (I'd actually say 'credit') is theirs too.
I'd say that Journey would have had disappointing album sales in 1986 (and ever since) no matter what they did. This was a band that had peaked five years earlier and times were changing. No band which enjoyed success during AOR's golden age of 1975-1986 were able to sustain it. Boston, Foreigner, REO...right through to Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins...All of them went downhill commercially in the second half of the 80s and none of them recovered the lost ground.
Totally agree with your point though that it's a myth that Cain was just the ballad guy.
That was exactly what I meant - Steve Perry didn't write ROR on his own. If you listen to JC's full catalogue of song writing, not just with Journey, there's a fair amount of pop there, as well as rock and even a little classical. And I'd go further and say that JC's song writing abilities and the direction he was going was what made Journey relevent in the early 80s. I love the Gregg Rollie albums, and to be honest I prefer him as a musician, but Captured/Departed sound like 70s albums, and Escape sounds like an 80s album, and I'd bet my money on that shift coming from JC.
I've
never said he was just a ballad guy - the man has a lot more to him then that. I just don't understand why the 'Journey Went Pop' mantle is always dropped on SP, when JC (and Schon) were part of the writing process. I don't argue about SP taking control, or even that he acted like a dick, I just don't see why he lumps the whole blame when he didn't write the whole album.
As for why ROR is a pop rather than a rock album, I always thought it was because Neal Schon kinda tuned out, and wasn't that involved with it. It always felt like he was phoning in his performance, and the rock soul of Journey just isn't there without him. SP needs someone else to write with, to give him the spark to work with. With NS, he could write some good, rocking stuff; with JC and
without NS, it seems to go more gentle and downbeat, be that a ballad or a pop song. I get the feeling that JC has (or had) a good ear for a commercial, succesful sound, with good hooks, but that he needs input to get from 'sounds good' to 'good rock'. That's not a criticism, either, just an observation.
Why treat life as a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in an attractive & well-preserved body? Get there by skidding in sideways, a glass of wine in one hand, chocolate in the other, body totally worn out, screaming WOOHOO! What a ride!
Time for Greta. Night night.
