New Eclipse material....disappointing?

[Don]

The thing with Journey is there is no one album that really took off for them. When your best selling album is the Greatest Hits you tend to get lumped in with a ton of other bands .
Escape is the closest thing to their own Mona Lisa but there is no Slippery When Wet, Hysteria, Pyromania, Boston, Appetite for Destruction, 90125, Bat Out Of Hell, Moving Pictures, The Wall, Dark Side Of The Moon, Hotel California, Back in Black, etc. in Journey's catalog. They've never had that one album that everyone had to have, whether they were really a Journey fan or not. I think in this case the band's consistency in creating GOOD records is used against them, and they are penalized for not quite having the ability to release that one GREAT album that could catch everyone's attention in the music world.

I agree. But I'm emotionally attached to Infinity (even though it isn't their definitive album, though) because it's such a unique sound that definied early Journey. Steve's crsytal clear high vocals with a very unique guitar/insrumental sound.

Yeah, I'm really talking about the overall music scene and theorizing on just one reason why Journey might not seem to get as much respect as others in their genre.

[S2M]

That's an easy question, Carlitto....I do not believe in the term 'grower'. I know if I like something first listen, even from a 20 sec clip....Listening to something over and over that I didn't initially like - will lead nowhere.....but listening to something that I initially liked could lead to me loving it....make sense?

I disagree somewhat. Yes, there have been times where I have been in love right from the get-go.
Since we're in a Journey forum, I'll use Arrival as an example. the first 20sec of Higher Place kicked my
ass and made say, "WOW!"

But on the flip-side, I find that the songs that initially grabbed me right away
are the songs I wind up growing tired of the quickest. Its the stuff that literally
grows on me that sticks, and those are the songs/albums that I truly embrace the most.

Its really just a matter of taste and opinion. I get the feeling you're not going to like
anything this band does for your own personal reasons...

Not true at all.....I can't stand the members, but if they happen to record a decent song - I'll listen. You know, they must pass out rose-coloreds with every album. Because no matter what this bands does they end up looking teflon. Furthermore, I'm allowed to not like something, and also comment on what I don't like. It's called equity. If folks can gush, I can dissent.

[Jana]

The thing with Journey is there is no one album that really took off for them. When your best selling album is the Greatest Hits you tend to get lumped in with a ton of other bands .
Escape is the closest thing to their own Mona Lisa but there is no Slippery When Wet, Hysteria, Pyromania, Boston, Appetite for Destruction, 90125, Bat Out Of Hell, Moving Pictures, The Wall, Dark Side Of The Moon, Hotel California, Back in Black, etc. in Journey's catalog. They've never had that one album that everyone had to have, whether they were really a Journey fan or not. I think in this case the band's consistency in creating GOOD records is used against them, and they are penalized for not quite having the ability to release that one GREAT album that could catch everyone's attention in the music world.

I agree. But I'm emotionally attached to Infinity (even though it isn't their definitive album, though) because it's such a unique sound that definied early Journey. Steve's crsytal clear high vocals with a very unique guitar/insrumental sound.

Yeah, I'm really talking about the overall music scene and theorizing on just one reason why Journey might not seem to get as much respect as others in their genre.

I agree. Fans might say it's Escape, but I never hear it mentioned the way some of the albums you mentioned are or U2's Joshua Tree.

[Majestic]

That's an easy question, Carlitto....I do not believe in the term 'grower'. I know if I like something first listen, even from a 20 sec clip....Listening to something over and over that I didn't initially like - will lead nowhere.....but listening to something that I initially liked could lead to me loving it....make sense?

I know what you're saying, and I'm often that way, but have learned that, when I do that, sometimes I'm wrong. When I first listened to Neal's I on U, I didn't get it. Other than a couple of tracks, I was disappointed big time. I hated some of the percussion, and 'techno' things happening in the background. Being the loyal fan I am, I gave that thing about 30 spins..actually, I was doing some work and had it on loop and just was to busy to go shut it off! After that, I got it. I love that disk now, and it's really the most sophistacted and killer solo work Schon has ever done. I'm sure many of you will disagree. It is really my favorite Neal album now, but had I put it away before I was able to get it, I'd be missing out now. Funny, my wife, (girlfriend at the time) got that album at once, and loved it. Anyway, there are such things as growers, and they often outlast the ones that win you at the first listen.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Not true at all.....I can't stand the members, but if they happen to record a decent song - I'll listen. You know, they must pass out rose-coloreds with every album. Because no matter what this bands does they end up looking teflon. Furthermore, I'm allowed to not like something, and also comment on what I don't like. It's called equity. If folks can gush, I can dissent.

Never said you weren't allowed to not like something or have an opinion.
I still just think its funny that you are so "opinionated" on an album
you really haven't even listened to yet... If you want to base
all your arguemnts and distaste off of what we've been able to hear so far,
that is your right. I've only commented on what I've heard
"from the studio album", which is COH's radio edit. Why would I want
to totally accept or disclaim the ENTIRE album when I haven't heard it yet...

And I don't fall into that "rose-colored" category... I'm STILL
pissed about ROR, TBF, and Generations!
But I also know that "The Magic" these guys had 20-30 years ago
will never return to what we once new. Its still there, its just
a different flavor now that one key ingredient
has permanently removed himself from the mix.
i just accept what they give us, and decide whether I like it or not.

[SF-Dano]

And I don't fall into that "rose-colored" category... I'm STILL
pissed about ROR, TBF, and Generations!
But I also know that "The Magic" these guys had 20-30 years ago
will never return to what we once new. Its still there, its just
a different flavor now that one key ingredient
has permanently removed himself from the mix.
i just accept what they give us, and decide whether I like it or not.

agreed

[Arkansas]

I think the only dissapointing thing about this new record could be that if it's more of a NSB album under the Journey name. I'm a Schon fan, no doubt. But if it's not really a Journey album, much like ROR was a Perry album, then there'll be some understandable backlash.


later~

[Jana]

I think the only dissapointing thing about this new record could be that if it's more of a NSB album under the Journey name. I'm a Schon fan, no doubt. But if it's not really a Journey album, much like ROR was a Perry album, then there'll be some understandable backlash.


later~

I agree there would be backlash. But with Jon being heavily involved in the writing of the music, I doubt it would ever be completely that, having Jon's influence on the lyrics and melody.

[Arkansas]

I think the only dissapointing thing about this new record could be that if it's more of a NSB album under the Journey name. I'm a Schon fan, no doubt. But if it's not really a Journey album, much like ROR was a Perry album, then there'll be some understandable backlash.


later~

I agree there would be backlash. But with Jon being heavily involved in the writing of the music, I doubt it would ever be completely that, having Jon's influence on the lyrics and melody.

Yeah, point taken. But I do wonder if this is an album of Schon work, that JC just added decorative fills & lyrics. Again, I use ROR as an example - it was a Perry album in which he employed Schon & Cain, and a few hired guns. It does appear, so far, that DC is quite prominent though, but he's been Schon's drummer for 20 yrs. And the AP songs on this album, well they had to give him some credibility, although I wouldn't doubt that they were re-worked/crafted according to what NS wanted.

The most successful Journey records had all players as contributing musicians, and I think that's what made them a real band then.


later~

[kmjrr]

That's an easy question, Carlitto....I do not believe in the term 'grower'. I know if I like something first listen, even from a 20 sec clip....Listening to something over and over that I didn't initially like - will lead nowhere.....but listening to something that I initially liked could lead to me loving it....make sense?

Okay, songs do not 'grow' on you. They do grow on other people. It doesn't hinge on whether you happen believe in the term or not.

[Andrew]

I think the only dissapointing thing about this new record could be that if it's more of a NSB album under the Journey name. I'm a Schon fan, no doubt. But if it's not really a Journey album, much like ROR was a Perry album, then there'll be some understandable backlash.


later~

I agree there would be backlash. But with Jon being heavily involved in the writing of the music, I doubt it would ever be completely that, having Jon's influence on the lyrics and melody.

It's Journey. Not NSB.

[koberry]

Growers! I've been listening to the tracks downloaded from the Frontiers.it site since yesterday and can honestly say that I'm totally getting and loving these songs now, especially Human Feel.

Hope they grow on you, too. Love Arnel's phrasing on Human Feel, he's owning this stuff, for sure.

[Andrew]

I love growers. Better songs are the ones that require a little digging.

[Behshad]

Hole album has a raw vibe, but sooooo much going on. Nothing like Red 13.

This is not a snippets album. Hard to crop 60secs out of 6 minutes.

Seriously dude? Who are you, Stevew3 ???

[artist4perry]

I am sure it will be great. Cannot wait till release!

[brywool]

Disappointing? NOPE.

[superreverb]

Eclipse - The term is derived from the ancient Greek noun ἔκλειψις (ékleipsis), which means "the abandonment", "the downfall", or "the darkening of a heavenly body" -

I think theres a partial abandonment of trying to re-live all old formulas, and make the record that they wanted to make with their new singer, in a new cycle, new light on the band, a new public awareness of the classic material, actually allows them to separate from that classic material, & create something completely new.

I don't think this is a "Radio record", I think it's a true "Journey Fan" record, not just the SP lineup fans, but the fans that followed the band through all their transitions, SA, JSS, AP - this is the hope to "Eclipse" all that has passed, with the new cycle of the band, which even if it's daring, and alienates the Classic fans, is pretty exciting, a very exciting record, for Journey fans.

Classic fans can enjoy the resurgence of DSB, they're generally not happy, and compare everything to SP anyway, who's not here, on tour or on this album, so I for one... am excited about a NEW Journey record, that ISNT in a "Classic Formula", but I still hear Journey'isms All over these clips.

I'm not going to like every song on this record, but I already know that I am going to LOVE some of these tunes.

A GREAT addition to the growing, forward moving evolution of Journey.

the "Sound" of this record, is so good, it's so big, that it's (Even if it's a smaller one) a Milestone for this band.

This is all my opinion, but as a journey fan, since 81, I know that I'm not the only one that feels this way.

[SusieP]

It had better be bloody good.


Amazon UK are charging £18 for it on pre-order!

That's extortionate.

That's $29

How much do you usually pay for an album????

Not that bloody much.
They are taking the piss.
I'm not paying that much.

[VirgilTheart]

Eclipse - The term is derived from the ancient Greek noun ἔκλειψις (ékleipsis), which means "the abandonment", "the downfall", or "the darkening of a heavenly body" -

Wow. I always loved the world 'eclipse', but I never knew that that was the origin of the word. EPIC.

I think theres a partial abandonment of trying to re-live all old formulas, and make the record that they wanted to make with their new singer, in a new cycle, new light on the band, a new public awareness of the classic material, actually allows them to separate from that classic material, & create something completely new.

I don't think this is a "Radio record", I think it's a true "Journey Fan" record, not just the SP lineup fans, but the fans that followed the band through all their transitions, SA, JSS, AP - this is the hope to "Eclipse" all that has passed, with the new cycle of the band, which even if it's daring, and alienates the Classic fans, is pretty exciting, a very exciting record, for Journey fans.

Classic fans can enjoy the resurgence of DSB, they're generally not happy, and compare everything to SP anyway, who's not here, on tour or on this album, so I for one... am excited about a NEW Journey record, that ISNT in a "Classic Formula", but I still hear Journey'isms All over these clips.

This. But in response to that last part on "Journey'isms", I suppose that there would still have to be some things to remind folks who this band is. That or it's just the first step into the next big change for the band; aka perhaps the new sound on Eclipse will be explored more in depth on the next Journey album?

I'm not going to like every song on this record, but I already know that I am going to LOVE some of these tunes.

A GREAT addition to the growing, forward moving evolution of Journey.

the "Sound" of this record, is so good, it's so big, that it's (Even if it's a smaller one) a Milestone for this band.

This is all my opinion, but as a journey fan, since 81, I know that I'm not the only one that feels this way.

I'm not sure if there will be any songs I won't like, personally. I mean sure, CoH and Human Feel aren't amazing per say, but I for one liked them and from what I've been hearing in the samples for the album, I love everything else so far.

This album is definitely going to be a memorable one, whether or not all of the fans like it or even it doesn't hit Gold or Platinum like Revelation or all of the Perry-era albums did. To quote something Stephen King said about his book, The Shining, Eclipse seems (to me at least) to be the "crossroads album" for Journey where they decided to 'try and reach a little higher' rather than just do the same old, same old. Granted, in my honest opinion, Raised On Radio would've been that crossroads album for the band in the 80s if Perry hadn't decided to take over and make it another solo album with the Journey name on it. But thankfully, it would appear to me that the band's been given another chance to try and reach higher than usual now that Arnel (and the resurgence of the Perry-era classics) has helped revive the band's popularity.

[Saint John]

It had better be bloody good.


Amazon UK are charging £18 for it on pre-order!

That's extortionate.

That's $29

How much do you usually pay for an album????

Not that bloody much.
They are taking the piss.
I'm not paying that much.

PM me a mailing address and I'll send you a Walmart purchased, still in the package copy free of charge. I'd rather pay the approximate $10 than see you pay $29. That's just absurd.

[SusieP]

It had better be bloody good.


Amazon UK are charging £18 for it on pre-order!

That's extortionate.

That's $29

How much do you usually pay for an album????

Not that bloody much.
They are taking the piss.
I'm not paying that much.

PM me a mailing address and I'll send you a Walmart purchased, still in the package copy free of charge. I'd rather pay the approximate $10 than see you pay $29. That's just absurd.

Thankyou so much Dan. xxx

I've had some PM's offering to do the same thing.

And I'm touched by everyone's kindness.

But I won't put you guys to all that trouble. I'm sure I will get it for less than that.



But I'm just outraged that it is so expensive.

How bloody dare they!

[SusieP]

PS
Dan - has that back/shoulder pain cleared up?

[Don]

It had better be bloody good.


Amazon UK are charging £18 for it on pre-order!

That's extortionate.

That's $29

How much do you usually pay for an album????

Not that bloody much.
They are taking the piss.
I'm not paying that much.

PM me a mailing address and I'll send you a Walmart purchased, still in the package copy free of charge. I'd rather pay the approximate $10 than see you pay $29. That's just absurd.

Thankyou so much Dan. xxx

I've had some PM's offering to do the same thing.

And I'm touched by everyone's kindness.

But I won't put you guys to all that trouble. I'm sure I will get it for less than that.



But I'm just outraged that it is so expensive.

How bloody dare they!

Susie, check your PM.

[Saint John]

PS
Dan - has that back/shoulder pain cleared up?

Sadly, no. It's a lingering problem. It's gotten better, but it's not gone. I think warm weather will help and that's right around the corner.

[SusieP]

PS
Dan - has that back/shoulder pain cleared up?

Sadly, no. It's a lingering problem. It's gotten better, but it's not gone. I think warm weather will help and that's right around the corner.

Sorry to hear that.
I hope it gets better soon.


And thanks again [and everyone else, too] for offering to get me the CD cheaper than it is in 'rip off Britain.'

xxx

[Duncan]

Susie,

It's £8.99 at HMV including shipping.

[SusieP]

Susie,

It's £8.99 at HMV including shipping.

Now that's more like it!


Thanks Duncan.
xxx

[Aaron]

Based on the clips available, I would have to agree with you. However, I'm saving my final view until after I hear the cd back to back several times. The clips just can't give you the vib of the songs or the whole cd. Come on release date. At least it's not gayed out this time.

[daytrpr]

I will say this...based on the samples, they will continue to be contenders for "Worst Lyricists in Rock." Some of those lines sounds right out of Spinal Tap. Journey was never very strong lyrically, but with Jon being the only guy left in the band who is even semi-articulate, I guess this shouldn't be much of a surprise.

[Don]

I will say this...based on the samples, they will continue to be contenders for "Worst Lyricists in Rock." Some of those lines sounds right out of Spinal Tap. Journey was never very strong lyrically, but with Jon being the only guy left in the band who is even semi-articulate, I guess this shouldn't be much of a surprise.

Richie Sambora is in the Songwriters HOF. Perry/Schon/Cain aren't. See, it's all about the hooks when it comes to Journey music.