"Eclipse" on vinyl

[steveo777]

Reel to Reel straight off the master seems like a good idea to me.

[superreverb]

Reel to Reel straight off the master seems like a good idea to me.

Looks like you might be bang on
http://www.theblueloft.com/index.php/services/mastering/

Interesting read at the bottom about Vinyl Mastering, and this is the guy that Mastered the Journey record.[/url]

[FishinMagician]

why? just why lol

[steveo777]

why? just why lol

Because we can. You must not have been around during the LP era.

[Kingfish]

why? just why lol

I would love to have the LP also, but this is a bunch of bull hooey. A vinyl record cannot hold the exact information of a music wave file. It is limited by the size of the needle, by gravity, by a whole bunch of things. Hey, I have an sentimental attachment to the clicks and pops on a record, but LPs are noisier. I have nothing against people feeling the sound is "warmer", etc., that's fine. But the reproduction of the sound is not better "because it is analog". If that were the case, can you imagine the wonderfully high definition picture you could get on a television if it were recorded on vinyl instead of DVD? A vinyl record's groove would mirror the original lightwave's waveform. Throw out those Blu-Ray discs!

Well the argument (I don't believe) isn't usually about what is the most "Accurate representation of sound", Digital wins hands down for that. It's actually all of the flaws, and the "coloring" many analog processes, Vinyl, Magnetic Tape, Tape heads, Transformers, cables, Tubes etc.. who's inaccuracy, which we refer to as coloration or character, is the desired process.

If something is Captured Digital, even in the television / visual analogy... it can be put straight to BlueRay, for the clearest representation of what was captured, however, if the footage could be transferred to Film, artistically filtered / colored, in a real world class way by professional film makers, and projected on to a screen as it's "Delivery format", you will have something very visually different, sitting in that theatre, then you would watching the Blueray in your home.

Now, those who prefer this scenario A (The film projection) will simply argue that it is better, less harsh on the eyes, artistically pleasing, wide, and rich, and all of the "Scenario B enthusiasts" will argue about the Clarity, & definition of the blueRay, stating all of the inaccuracies of Scenario A.

Can you hear a difference in Vinyl Delivery alone? even if we just took the actual CD and made an Acetate Master from it, and A/B'd it on the same system, Turntable, v.s CD - Toggling back and forth?

Yes, absolutely, it sounds noticeably different.

Behind the scenes, in the Making of the Lacquer, the Audio was passed through a very drastic EQ curve (Called RIAA Equalization), which the Phono Circuit on your receiver decodes in the Analog realm (Lending it's own inherent character to the sound), this is just ONE element that is different in the delivery process. The actual sound of the vibration of the music, is also interpreted by the inductance of that vibration through your needle, into your Cartridge... I won't completely bore you with the entire signal path of magnetics, transformers, coils & Analog circuitry, but I will tell you that there are Many elements, even just in YOUR playback system, (Turntable / Phono Receiver /) that sound very different then your CD player into the same amp.

So.... In that Mastering process, imagine 10 or 20 more "Elements" in each part of the chain. Analog Summing of Mix stems in the mastering room, to Analog Tape, and all of the transformers, wires, and equipment employed between the Master For Vinyl process, and the Lathe (And all of ITS contributions), that will not be included in the CD Master, as well as the difference in YOUR playback system that we described above.

Placing change THROUGH Change, creates exponential change.

Maybe i'm getting too deep on this. I won't ever say one is "Better" then the other, but I will point out that the only ones that would be wrong on this subject, would be folks that state "There's absolutely no difference" - Even in todays modern recording age, Vinyl playback STILL remains a different "Listening Experience" then Digital.

[steveo777]

Very informative post, David. You're the man, in more ways than one. Thanks!

[Greg]

why? just why lol

I would love to have the LP also, but this is a bunch of bull hooey. A vinyl record cannot hold the exact information of a music wave file. It is limited by the size of the needle, by gravity, by a whole bunch of things. Hey, I have an sentimental attachment to the clicks and pops on a record, but LPs are noisier. I have nothing against people feeling the sound is "warmer", etc., that's fine. But the reproduction of the sound is not better "because it is analog". If that were the case, can you imagine the wonderfully high definition picture you could get on a television if it were recorded on vinyl instead of DVD? A vinyl record's groove would mirror the original lightwave's waveform. Throw out those Blu-Ray discs!

Well the argument (I don't believe) isn't usually about what is the most "Accurate representation of sound", Digital wins hands down for that. It's actually all of the flaws, and the "coloring" many analog processes, Vinyl, Magnetic Tape, Tape heads, Transformers, cables, Tubes etc.. who's inaccuracy, which we refer to as coloration or character, is the desired process.

If something is Captured Digital, even in the television / visual analogy... it can be put straight to BlueRay, for the clearest representation of what was captured, however, if the footage could be transferred to Film, artistically filtered / colored, in a real world class way by professional film makers, and projected on to a screen as it's "Delivery format", you will have something very visually different, sitting in that theatre, then you would watching the Blueray in your home.

Now, those who prefer this scenario A (The film projection) will simply argue that it is better, less harsh on the eyes, artistically pleasing, wide, and rich, and all of the "Scenario B enthusiasts" will argue about the Clarity, & definition of the blueRay, stating all of the inaccuracies of Scenario A.

Can you hear a difference in Vinyl Delivery alone? even if we just took the actual CD and made an Acetate Master from it, and A/B'd it on the same system, Turntable, v.s CD - Toggling back and forth?

Yes, absolutely, it sounds noticeably different.

Behind the scenes, in the Making of the Lacquer, the Audio was passed through a very drastic EQ curve (Called RIAA Equalization), which the Phono Circuit on your receiver decodes in the Analog realm (Lending it's own inherent character to the sound), this is just ONE element that is different in the delivery process. The actual sound of the vibration of the music, is also interpreted by the inductance of that vibration through your needle, into your Cartridge... I won't completely bore you with the entire signal path of magnetics, transformers, coils & Analog circuitry, but I will tell you that there are Many elements, even just in YOUR playback system, (Turntable / Phono Receiver /) that sound very different then your CD player into the same amp.

So.... In that Mastering process, imagine 10 or 20 more "Elements" in each part of the chain. Analog Summing of Mix stems in the mastering room, to Analog Tape, and all of the transformers, wires, and equipment employed between the Master For Vinyl process, and the Lathe (And all of ITS contributions), that will not be included in the CD Master, as well as the difference in YOUR playback system that we described above.

Placing change THROUGH Change, creates exponential change.

Maybe i'm getting too deep on this. I won't ever say one is "Better" then the other, but I will point out that the only ones that would be wrong on this subject, would be folks that state "There's absolutely no difference" - Even in todays modern recording age, Vinyl playback STILL remains a different "Listening Experience" then Digital.

Now I can agree with this post. And maybe the digital process of mastering has improved over the years. I still believe that the only “good” things about CDs from a consumer standpoint are no background noise and its portability. Of course the latter is losing out to mp3s and iTunes. Just like when you guys argue about the mix of the current or recent Journey albums, I argue about the robotic sound of digital formats verses vinyl. But, alas, that’s a personal preference. Those who didn’t grow up in the age of vinyl won’t understand unless they have given it a chance. Vinyl *does* offer a different listening experience. I certainly believe in the warmth and the richness of vinyl’s sound being superior to the hollow sound of a CD, but that’s my personal tastes. But what I believe vinyl DOES in fact have over compact discs, and especially mp3s, is that it offers covers and often booklets that are bigger and nicer to look at than the small CD inserts. Maybe that has no barring on several here, but I think it’s a neat part of the listening experience. In fact, I’m getting an original copy of The Eagles “Hotel California” that is coming with a poster. Kind of hard to offer something like with a CD or a digital download.