Release Anything Is Possible to kick off tour....

[slucero]

While it certainly is likely that this would do nothing, I figure it couldn't hurt. Try one more single (one of the more CLASSIC sounding songs), and see what happens. Strategically timed, and we could get a slight boost. No one will argue with more sales, even if they are a minimal amount.

Think of all the albums in the past, that took off after some time. Hysteria by Def Leppard comes to mind. Wasn't that out for close to a year, before it took off? That too looked like a failure. (And, no, I am not saying Eclipse could be as big as Hysteria. I am just saying, another single could be worthwhile.)

Plus, many albums have multiple singles. Journey could at least release a second.

I recall Guns & Roses debut (Appetite for Destruction) didn't truly take off for about 9mos to a year after its release date. But that was a very different time. Radio is simply not going to play new Joureny, and especially not in heavy rotation. They just won't. Revelation sold well, but how often did we really hear those songs on the radio. I think I heard AATY twice total. I heard City of Hope once on the local classic rock station just after it was released. Have not heard it since.
It can't hurt to try, but I really don't think it will do any good.

Same with Hysteria. Didn't do jack for a while. Then something caught and it sold tons.

Both G&R and Leppard had some other qualities that made it easy once those albums caught...

1. they had major label support
2. they were young at the time, both had major girl appeal
3. they were in their prime

[Michigan Girl]

While it certainly is likely that this would do nothing, I figure it couldn't hurt. Try one more single (one of the more CLASSIC sounding songs), and see what happens. Strategically timed, and we could get a slight boost. No one will argue with more sales, even if they are a minimal amount.

Think of all the albums in the past, that took off after some time. Hysteria by Def Leppard comes to mind. Wasn't that out for close to a year, before it took off? That too looked like a failure. (And, no, I am not saying Eclipse could be as big as Hysteria. I am just saying, another single could be worthwhile.)

Plus, many albums have multiple singles. Journey could at least release a second.

I recall Guns & Roses debut (Appetite for Destruction) didn't truly take off for about 9mos to a year after its release date. But that was a very different time. Radio is simply not going to play new Joureny, and especially not in heavy rotation. They just won't. Revelation sold well, but how often did we really hear those songs on the radio. I think I heard AATY twice total. I heard City of Hope once on the local classic rock station just after it was released. Have not heard it since.
It can't hurt to try, but I really don't think it will do any good.

Same with Hysteria. Didn't do jack for a while. Then something caught and it sold tons.

Both G&R and Leppard had some other qualities that made it easy once those albums caught...

1. they had major label support
2. they were young at the time, both had major girl appeal
3. they were in their prime

They both kinda kicked ass, too ...

[brywool]

While it certainly is likely that this would do nothing, I figure it couldn't hurt. Try one more single (one of the more CLASSIC sounding songs), and see what happens. Strategically timed, and we could get a slight boost. No one will argue with more sales, even if they are a minimal amount.

Think of all the albums in the past, that took off after some time. Hysteria by Def Leppard comes to mind. Wasn't that out for close to a year, before it took off? That too looked like a failure. (And, no, I am not saying Eclipse could be as big as Hysteria. I am just saying, another single could be worthwhile.)

Plus, many albums have multiple singles. Journey could at least release a second.

I recall Guns & Roses debut (Appetite for Destruction) didn't truly take off for about 9mos to a year after its release date. But that was a very different time. Radio is simply not going to play new Joureny, and especially not in heavy rotation. They just won't. Revelation sold well, but how often did we really hear those songs on the radio. I think I heard AATY twice total. I heard City of Hope once on the local classic rock station just after it was released. Have not heard it since.
It can't hurt to try, but I really don't think it will do any good.

Same with Hysteria. Didn't do jack for a while. Then something caught and it sold tons.

Both G&R and Leppard had some other qualities that made it easy once those albums caught...

1. they had major label support
2. they were young at the time, both had major girl appeal
3. they were in their prime

They both kinda kicked ass, too ...

GNR had Girl Appeal? Axl and Slash have got to be two of the ugliest F'ers in music. I'm hoping Axl used his millions to have his teeth replaced. Dang, one usually has to go to a methlab to find those kinds of dental horrors.

[Toph]

While it certainly is likely that this would do nothing, I figure it couldn't hurt. Try one more single (one of the more CLASSIC sounding songs), and see what happens. Strategically timed, and we could get a slight boost. No one will argue with more sales, even if they are a minimal amount.

Think of all the albums in the past, that took off after some time. Hysteria by Def Leppard comes to mind. Wasn't that out for close to a year, before it took off? That too looked like a failure. (And, no, I am not saying Eclipse could be as big as Hysteria. I am just saying, another single could be worthwhile.)

Plus, many albums have multiple singles. Journey could at least release a second.

I recall Guns & Roses debut (Appetite for Destruction) didn't truly take off for about 9mos to a year after its release date. But that was a very different time. Radio is simply not going to play new Joureny, and especially not in heavy rotation. They just won't. Revelation sold well, but how often did we really hear those songs on the radio. I think I heard AATY twice total. I heard City of Hope once on the local classic rock station just after it was released. Have not heard it since.
It can't hurt to try, but I really don't think it will do any good.

When Styx reformed in 1990, they released "Love Is the Ritual" and it flat out bombed? Why? because it sounded nothing like Styx. Then they released "Show Me The Way" which was a huge hit and helped the album recover....somewhat (enough to go Gold) ....but a lot of the damage had already been done and they couldn't escape the fact that they had released the wrong song as the first single.

[Michigan Girl]

Both G&R and Leppard had some other qualities that made it easy once those albums caught...

1. they had major label support
2. they were young at the time, both had major girl appeal
3. they were in their prime

They both kinda kicked ass, too ...

GNR had Girl Appeal? Axl and Slash have got to be two of the ugliest F'ers in music. I'm hoping Axl used his millions to have his teeth replaced. Dang, one usually has to go to a methlab to find those kinds of dental horrors.

Surely this does not come as a shock to you at this late date?!?
I can't speak for the women of the world, but Slash is sexy
when he's playing ...hat, cig, the whole shabang!! Axl ...mmm,
have you seen his women?!? They do like him!!

[brywool]

When Styx reformed in 1990, they released "Love Is the Ritual" and it flat out bombed? Why? because it sounded nothing like Styx. Then they released "Show Me The Way" which was a huge hit and helped the album recover....somewhat (enough to go Gold) ....but a lot of the damage had already been done and they couldn't escape the fact that they had released the wrong song as the first single.

WRONG.

It "bombed" because A&M didn't want to put any money into promotion because some in the band felt they were entitled to much more than they were given and A&M was starting to put all their dough towards more "current" sounding acts (grunge), as was everyone at that time. A&M was NOT happy with Styx at the time and it seemingly had little to do with their music but more to do with attitudes from a certain member of the band who felt he and his band deserved a lot more from A&M (which they probably did).

Show Me The Way made it big because of the Iraq deal. DeYoung is the first one to admit that. Some DJ out there spliced a bunch of Iraq War soundbytes into the song and started playing it and it took off. It had ZERO to do with a change in the Styx sound.

[brywool]

Surely this does not come as a shock to you at this late date?!?
I can't speak for the women of the world, but Slash is sexy
when he's playing ...hat, cig, the whole shabang!! Axl ...mmm,
have you seen his women?!? They do like him!!

They like his wallet.
There are a TON of rich guys that have the most gorgeous women on their arms. 9 times out of 10 it has nothing to do with how handsome the guy is. Has everything to do with how much dough he's got.

[Michigan Girl]

Surely this does not come as a shock to you at this late date?!?
I can't speak for the women of the world, but Slash is sexy
when he's playing ...hat, cig, the whole shabang!! Axl ...mmm,
have you seen his women?!? They do like him!!

They like his wallet.
There are a TON of rich guys that have the most gorgeous women on their arms. 9 times out of 10 it has nothing to do with how handsome the guy is. Has everything to do with how much dough he's got.

Sure, but the Everly girl, w/the famous father, married him before he became famous
and Super Model Stephanie Seymour was already famously wealthy ...so I'm sure
it's a combo of things !!

[Monker]

When Styx reformed in 1990, they released "Love Is the Ritual" and it flat out bombed? Why? because it sounded nothing like Styx. Then they released "Show Me The Way" which was a huge hit and helped the album recover....somewhat (enough to go Gold) ....but a lot of the damage had already been done and they couldn't escape the fact that they had released the wrong song as the first single.

WRONG.

It "bombed" because A&M didn't want to put any money into promotion because some in the band felt they were entitled to much more than they were given and A&M was starting to put all their dough towards more "current" sounding acts (grunge), as was everyone at that time. A&M was NOT happy with Styx at the time and it seemingly had little to do with their music but more to do with attitudes from a certain member of the band who felt he and his band deserved a lot more from A&M (which they probably did).

Show Me The Way made it big because of the Iraq deal. DeYoung is the first one to admit that. Some DJ out there spliced a bunch of Iraq War soundbytes into the song and started playing it and it took off. It had ZERO to do with a change in the Styx sound.

Oh, please....only feed the Styx troll in the Styx forum, please!

[Toph]

When Styx reformed in 1990, they released "Love Is the Ritual" and it flat out bombed? Why? because it sounded nothing like Styx. Then they released "Show Me The Way" which was a huge hit and helped the album recover....somewhat (enough to go Gold) ....but a lot of the damage had already been done and they couldn't escape the fact that they had released the wrong song as the first single.

WRONG.

It "bombed" because A&M didn't want to put any money into promotion because some in the band felt they were entitled to much more than they were given and A&M was starting to put all their dough towards more "current" sounding acts (grunge), as was everyone at that time. A&M was NOT happy with Styx at the time and it seemingly had little to do with their music but more to do with attitudes from a certain member of the band who felt he and his band deserved a lot more from A&M (which they probably did).

Show Me The Way made it big because of the Iraq deal. DeYoung is the first one to admit that. Some DJ out there spliced a bunch of Iraq War soundbytes into the song and started playing it and it took off. It had ZERO to do with a change in the Styx sound.

Just because it is a different board doesn't mean somehow you are right now, Bry. You are still WRONG.

Go and look at DDY interviews, he said releasing Love Is The Ritual was HIS CALL and he takes the blame for it. He says that Love Is The Ritual bombed because it didn't sound like Styx and no one knew that it was Styx. Yes, Show Me The Way was the beneficiary of Gulf War sentiment, but Dennis even said the record company wanted it to be the first single and he overturned them and had LITR released.

Promotion on the album did not stop until right after the third single, Love At First Sight was released. A&M stopped promoting it when they and Styx couldn't agree on a new contract for more albums. The record company stopped short of promoting it right before it got to gold status (went gold later). This is all documented in Sterling Walker's book. Should Dennis and the band have come to a deal before the record was released? Absolutely. In fact they should never have given the record company the masters until a new deal was in place. Stupid business move.

[Monker]

When Styx reformed in 1990, they released "Love Is the Ritual" and it flat out bombed? Why? because it sounded nothing like Styx. Then they released "Show Me The Way" which was a huge hit and helped the album recover....somewhat (enough to go Gold) ....but a lot of the damage had already been done and they couldn't escape the fact that they had released the wrong song as the first single.

WRONG.

It "bombed" because A&M didn't want to put any money into promotion because some in the band felt they were entitled to much more than they were given and A&M was starting to put all their dough towards more "current" sounding acts (grunge), as was everyone at that time. A&M was NOT happy with Styx at the time and it seemingly had little to do with their music but more to do with attitudes from a certain member of the band who felt he and his band deserved a lot more from A&M (which they probably did).

Show Me The Way made it big because of the Iraq deal. DeYoung is the first one to admit that. Some DJ out there spliced a bunch of Iraq War soundbytes into the song and started playing it and it took off. It had ZERO to do with a change in the Styx sound.

Just because it is a different board doesn't mean somehow you are right now, Bry. You are still WRONG.

Go and look at DDY interviews, he said releasing Love Is The Ritual was HIS CALL and he takes the blame for it. He says that Love Is The Ritual bombed because it didn't sound like Styx and no one knew that it was Styx. Yes, Show Me The Way was the beneficiary of Gulf War sentiment, but Dennis even said the record company wanted it to be the first single and he overturned them and had LITR released.

Promotion on the album did not stop until right after the third single, Love At First Sight was released. A&M stopped promoting it when they and Styx couldn't agree on a new contract for more albums. The record company stopped short of promoting it right before it got to gold status (went gold later). This is all documented in Sterling Walker's book. Should Dennis and the band have come to a deal before the record was released? Absolutely. In fact they should never have given the record company the masters until a new deal was in place. Stupid business move.

I told you not to feed the Styx troll and now look at this...he has to spread his inane ramblings here too.

[Toph]

When Styx reformed in 1990, they released "Love Is the Ritual" and it flat out bombed? Why? because it sounded nothing like Styx. Then they released "Show Me The Way" which was a huge hit and helped the album recover....somewhat (enough to go Gold) ....but a lot of the damage had already been done and they couldn't escape the fact that they had released the wrong song as the first single.

WRONG.

It "bombed" because A&M didn't want to put any money into promotion because some in the band felt they were entitled to much more than they were given and A&M was starting to put all their dough towards more "current" sounding acts (grunge), as was everyone at that time. A&M was NOT happy with Styx at the time and it seemingly had little to do with their music but more to do with attitudes from a certain member of the band who felt he and his band deserved a lot more from A&M (which they probably did).

Show Me The Way made it big because of the Iraq deal. DeYoung is the first one to admit that. Some DJ out there spliced a bunch of Iraq War soundbytes into the song and started playing it and it took off. It had ZERO to do with a change in the Styx sound.

Just because it is a different board doesn't mean somehow you are right now, Bry. You are still WRONG.

Go and look at DDY interviews, he said releasing Love Is The Ritual was HIS CALL and he takes the blame for it. He says that Love Is The Ritual bombed because it didn't sound like Styx and no one knew that it was Styx. Yes, Show Me The Way was the beneficiary of Gulf War sentiment, but Dennis even said the record company wanted it to be the first single and he overturned them and had LITR released.

Promotion on the album did not stop until right after the third single, Love At First Sight was released. A&M stopped promoting it when they and Styx couldn't agree on a new contract for more albums. The record company stopped short of promoting it right before it got to gold status (went gold later). This is all documented in Sterling Walker's book. Should Dennis and the band have come to a deal before the record was released? Absolutely. In fact they should never have given the record company the masters until a new deal was in place. Stupid business move.

I told you not to feed the Styx troll and now look at this...he has to spread his inane ramblings here too.

Sorry that facts bother you Monker. Theu manage to disrupt your entire spiel. You are winning dude!

[Monker]

When Styx reformed in 1990, they released "Love Is the Ritual" and it flat out bombed? Why? because it sounded nothing like Styx. Then they released "Show Me The Way" which was a huge hit and helped the album recover....somewhat (enough to go Gold) ....but a lot of the damage had already been done and they couldn't escape the fact that they had released the wrong song as the first single.

WRONG.

It "bombed" because A&M didn't want to put any money into promotion because some in the band felt they were entitled to much more than they were given and A&M was starting to put all their dough towards more "current" sounding acts (grunge), as was everyone at that time. A&M was NOT happy with Styx at the time and it seemingly had little to do with their music but more to do with attitudes from a certain member of the band who felt he and his band deserved a lot more from A&M (which they probably did).

Show Me The Way made it big because of the Iraq deal. DeYoung is the first one to admit that. Some DJ out there spliced a bunch of Iraq War soundbytes into the song and started playing it and it took off. It had ZERO to do with a change in the Styx sound.

Just because it is a different board doesn't mean somehow you are right now, Bry. You are still WRONG.

Go and look at DDY interviews, he said releasing Love Is The Ritual was HIS CALL and he takes the blame for it. He says that Love Is The Ritual bombed because it didn't sound like Styx and no one knew that it was Styx. Yes, Show Me The Way was the beneficiary of Gulf War sentiment, but Dennis even said the record company wanted it to be the first single and he overturned them and had LITR released.

Promotion on the album did not stop until right after the third single, Love At First Sight was released. A&M stopped promoting it when they and Styx couldn't agree on a new contract for more albums. The record company stopped short of promoting it right before it got to gold status (went gold later). This is all documented in Sterling Walker's book. Should Dennis and the band have come to a deal before the record was released? Absolutely. In fact they should never have given the record company the masters until a new deal was in place. Stupid business move.

I told you not to feed the Styx troll and now look at this...he has to spread his inane ramblings here too.

Sorry that facts bother you Monker. Theu manage to disrupt your entire spiel. You are winning dude!

The fact is that you have trolled the Styx forum for years with this kinda talk. Now that you are proving your ignorance about Journey and an inability to find an angle to troll this forum, you are going back to what you are familiar with...and other Styx forum people are biting your lures.

Don't feed the Styx troll.

[brywool]

Just because it is a different board doesn't mean somehow you are right now, Bry. You are still WRONG.

Go and look at DDY interviews, he said releasing Love Is The Ritual was HIS CALL and he takes the blame for it. He says that Love Is The Ritual bombed because it didn't sound like Styx and no one knew that it was Styx. Yes, Show Me The Way was the beneficiary of Gulf War sentiment, but Dennis even said the record company wanted it to be the first single and he overturned them and had LITR released.

Promotion on the album did not stop until right after the third single, Love At First Sight was released. A&M stopped promoting it when they and Styx couldn't agree on a new contract for more albums. The record company stopped short of promoting it right before it got to gold status (went gold later). This is all documented in Sterling Walker's book. Should Dennis and the band have come to a deal before the record was released? Absolutely. In fact they should never have given the record company the masters until a new deal was in place. Stupid business move.

Actually, I think you're correct. Whoops! I've got Sterling's book too, haven't read it in a while. I thought Love is the Ritual was a great track and it updated Styx for that time, though it was a bit too late as Grunge was just coming in. You could tell it was Styx though (or I certainly could) even though Burtnik was singing. They should've kept him happy. He was a great addition to Styx and LITR is great tune regardless. Anyway, Monker's right, wrong forum!

Still, I think releasing "Anything is Possible" for Journey is not a good move. There are stronger tracks on Eclipse. Release "Someone" or "Resonate". Much better hooks.

[Greg]

It's all kind of a moot point considering that Neal and company wasn't looking at this album as being radio friendly. Supposedly, Cit of Hope was "the" single for this album, and how many times has it been played on radio? None?

This album is not going to be pushed commercially. No big label promotion, completely wrong era (this ain't the 80's) to put that much effort into an experimental record such as this one. If they're not getting any bites from CoH, then they're not going to even think about releasing anything else.

[brywool]

Listening to this tune now- It'd fit in nicely with the next Olympics. Seriously. Could get a lot of promo out of that.
Hey, Journey managers, get on this will ya!?

[SF-Dano]

Listening to this tune now- It'd fit in nicely with the next Olympics. Seriously. Could get a lot of promo out of that.
Hey, Journey managers, get on this will ya!?

Yeah right . They couldn't even get Walmart to put up a sign. Nice to dream though.

[Onestepper]

Listening to this tune now- It'd fit in nicely with the next Olympics. Seriously. Could get a lot of promo out of that.
Hey, Journey managers, get on this will ya!?

Yeah right . They couldn't even get Walmart to put up a sign. Nice to dream though.

With lyrics like "When you shoot for the moon, and you miss your mark..maybe you'll still end up so high above the stars.." What Olympic athlete wouldn't find that inspirational?

[Blueskies]

Listening to this tune now- It'd fit in nicely with the next Olympics. Seriously. Could get a lot of promo out of that.
Hey, Journey managers, get on this will ya!?

It took a long time for Don't Stop Believing to become a sports inspirational anthem so I don't see it happening with AIP....but I agree, that if heard it would be a great motivational song for the Olympics. Who knows, though? Could happen. Anything is possible.

[Michigan Girl]

Listening to this tune now- It'd fit in nicely with the next Olympics. Seriously. Could get a lot of promo out of that.
Hey, Journey managers, get on this will ya!?

Yeah right . They couldn't even get Walmart to put up a sign. Nice to dream though.

With lyrics like "When you shoot for the moon, and you miss your mark..maybe you'll still end up so high above the stars.." What Olympic athlete wouldn't find that inspirational?

I'm crying ...

[RedWingFan]

Listening to this tune now- It'd fit in nicely with the next Olympics. Seriously. Could get a lot of promo out of that.
Hey, Journey managers, get on this will ya!?

Yeah right . They couldn't even get Walmart to put up a sign. Nice to dream though.

With lyrics like "When you shoot for the moon, and you miss your mark..maybe you'll still end up so high above the stars.." What Olympic athlete wouldn't find that inspirational?

Maybe they can save it for the Winter Olympics. I think the male figure skaters will eat that up!!!

[RumTumJM]

I just noticed this quote from Andrew's report on Mr. Big's U.S. tour.

"In other Mr. Big news, the next single from the new album, American Beauty, will ship to radio in July in support of the tour."

If Mr. Big can give it a shot, Journey sure as hell can try a similar approach. Journey has GOT TO BE bigger, these days than Mr. Big. I hate to say it, but it's true. (I mean that in the sense that I wish Mr. Big were bigger, NOT that I am against Journey's resurgence.)

[koberry]

Eclipse is a great album. The only mistake is how it was presented in a way that made people look at it backwards. Imagine what would have happened to Frontiers, or Escape, if they singled with the B sides like Edge of the Blade or Keep on Runnin'. The records would have been no different at all in composition but, probably would not have been as successful. The thing that has always worked so well for Journey, is that they are a really solid Popish rockish band who can deliver a great melody but also knows how to rock. Let's face it, Journey's B sides are some of their best songs, and everyone here will agree to that. But it's the pop singles that sold Journey music, and that's the legacy they built for themselves so now they have to live with that. It's much too late to change the playbook. In my opinion, the only thing hugely different between Eclipse and their other records is that they tried to sell the B sides and not the A sides. If journey had just one love ballad on Eclipse, and then made singles out of "someone" "anything is possible" "tantra" or one of those, everybody would be saying same old Journey and the album might do well. Might, because the music climate has changed, and this isn't the 80s. The songs we love on this album like Chain, Resonate, and Edge, are killer songs, and they belong on the B side where the meatier heavier Journey cuts have always lived.

Those of you who think this album isn't as Journey as Frontiers or Escape are just looking at the album inside out, and no wonder. That's how the band rolled it out. Still, it's a great Journey release and it will be whether it sells or not. If you think sales make greatness alone, just go ask Britney.

Much truth here. And the B sides are the vast majority of their catalog.

[koberry]

Listening to this tune now- It'd fit in nicely with the next Olympics. Seriously. Could get a lot of promo out of that.
Hey, Journey managers, get on this will ya!?

Yeah right . They couldn't even get Walmart to put up a sign. Nice to dream though.

With lyrics like "When you shoot for the moon, and you miss your mark..maybe you'll still end up so high above the stars.." What Olympic athlete wouldn't find that inspirational?

Duh, when you learn how to lose, you'll know what it takes to win

[Monker]

I just noticed this quote from Andrew's report on Mr. Big's U.S. tour.

"In other Mr. Big news, the next single from the new album, American Beauty, will ship to radio in July in support of the tour."

If Mr. Big can give it a shot, Journey sure as hell can try a similar approach. Journey has GOT TO BE bigger, these days than Mr. Big. I hate to say it, but it's true. (I mean that in the sense that I wish Mr. Big were bigger, NOT that I am against Journey's resurgence.)

Yes, Journey is bigger....but they are not as smart.

[brywool]

Listening to this tune now- It'd fit in nicely with the next Olympics. Seriously. Could get a lot of promo out of that.
Hey, Journey managers, get on this will ya!?

Yeah right . They couldn't even get Walmart to put up a sign. Nice to dream though.

With lyrics like "When you shoot for the moon, and you miss your mark..maybe you'll still end up so high above the stars.." What Olympic athlete wouldn't find that inspirational?

Exactly! It's the kind of stuff they always use. that's the point...

[Don]

Did Journey rip itself off creating this song? Is AIP a reconstructed Never Too Late To Change?

[kgdjpubs]

I just noticed this quote from Andrew's report on Mr. Big's U.S. tour.

"In other Mr. Big news, the next single from the new album, American Beauty, will ship to radio in July in support of the tour."

If Mr. Big can give it a shot, Journey sure as hell can try a similar approach. Journey has GOT TO BE bigger, these days than Mr. Big. I hate to say it, but it's true. (I mean that in the sense that I wish Mr. Big were bigger, NOT that I am against Journey's resurgence.)

Yes, Journey is bigger....but they are not as smart.

I'll be surprised if it works. To the average American radio listener who thinks "To Be With You" when they hear Mr. Big, I doubt think they are going to have any idea what to do with American Beauty.

[Gideon]

Did Journey rip itself off creating this song? Is AIP a reconstructed Never Too Late To Change?

I don't believe they have a song called "Never Too Late To Change."
I'm not sure you want to hear this, but Journey also ripped themselves off with Perry, or have you never heard Message of Love?

[Saint John]

Releasing the sound man to kick off the tour might be their best bet!