Well, they have dropped the key again live it appears.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Perry shined on this in '86

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJTM1J-H ... re=related

Holy fuck! That was awful!

His middle range was out so that why you him jumping low to high. He was toast by this point. The tempo is flying to save time singing. I would have been pissed.

[youkeepmewaiting]

If it's a choice between Journey changing the key for a few gigs vs Journey not touring anymore and APs voice blowing out then I know what I'd choose

[Liquid_Drummer]

When did Perry do I Stand Alone?

1998. Last thing from him, solo-wise. He sounds great on that. If he had that voice today, he could still be mega-successful on new stuff and still do a ton of the back catalog. But Andrew has told us that even if he can sing like that, it's uncomfortable for him.

That sucks.

You expect us to believe that he WAS able to change album art work, liquidate their assets and fire members, but he was NOT able to dictate song tempo?!?! The lightning tempo was to mask a failing voice and there are plenty of bootlegs from that tour that captured him cracking for the first time ever. Escape tour was carried by medicine, the Frontiers album showed the radical change in voice, ROR saw the last desperate attempt to sing in the original key, FTLOSM showed a half step down with many songs no longer in his wheel house even a half step down and TBF showed us he could no longer tour at all. It's right there if you care to accept the facts. Or you could run around jizzing all over yourself and believe Steve Lipkather, Uncle Joe Benson and Randy Jackson when they say that he still sounds like he did in the mid 80's.

The above I agree with 100% With this new info from Andrew and the white sox player pal of Steve's that said that his voice is gone and he wont do it. All the evidence is there and really is has been all along. As I have said and sure other mirror my statement.

If he could he would be doing so now. He hasnt because he cant. He tried to fix it and it is just gone. It is not an industry secret and I wonder if andrew plus the white sox guy saying that it is gone only days apart is any coincidence. IS this how Perry is going to tell us ? He just cant say it himself I bet. He cant say to his fans, Its gone, i cant sing anymore, thank you and good night.

[steveo777]

When did Perry do I Stand Alone?

1998. Last thing from him, solo-wise. He sounds great on that. If he had that voice today, he could still be mega-successful on new stuff and still do a ton of the back catalog. But Andrew has told us that even if he can sing like that, it's uncomfortable for him.

That sucks.

You expect us to believe that he WAS able to change album art work, liquidate their assets and fire members, but he was NOT able to dictate song tempo?!?! The lightning tempo was to mask a failing voice and there are plenty of bootlegs from that tour that captured him cracking for the first time ever. Escape tour was carried by medicine, the Frontiers album showed the radical change in voice, ROR saw the last desperate attempt to sing in the original key, FTLOSM showed a half step down with many songs no longer in his wheel house even a half step down and TBF showed us he could no longer tour at all. It's right there if you care to accept the facts. Or you could run around jizzing all over yourself and believe Steve Lipkather, Uncle Joe Benson and Randy Jackson when they say that he still sounds like he did in the mid 80's.

The above I agree with 100% With this new info from Andrew and the white sox player pal of Steve's that said that his voice is gone and he wont do it. All the evidence is there and really is has been all along. As I have said and sure other mirror my statement.

If he could he would be doing so now. He hasnt because he cant. He tried to fix it and it is just gone. It is not an industry secret and I wonder if andrew plus the white sox guy saying that it is gone only days apart is any coincidence. IS this how Perry is going to tell us ? He just cant say it himself I bet. He cant say to his fans, Its gone, i cant sing anymore, thank you and good night.

I think it's really time to acknowlege this and be appreciative of what we got when Steve was active. I also think it's time for all the singer bashing to stop
and just enjoy what time we still have with the band. It's never gonna be perfect again, never like 1981 again. Times have changed for this genre of music.
That doesn't mean that those of us that are still fans can't still enjoy some live shows and some new music. I appreciate all the singers who have kept this
band going, including the present. It would be nice if SP could give us an official announcement and just pass the torch along. No reason for prolonged
bitterness among former band members. It is what it is. Hopefully they can just put all their past differences aside. That said, I don't know why Neal, Steve
and Jon couldn't still reach a point where they could collaborate on some new music.

[Blueskies]

When did Perry do I Stand Alone?

1998. Last thing from him, solo-wise. He sounds great on that. If he had that voice today, he could still be mega-successful on new stuff and still do a ton of the back catalog. But Andrew has told us that even if he can sing like that, it's uncomfortable for him.

That sucks.

You expect us to believe that he WAS able to change album art work, liquidate their assets and fire members, but he was NOT able to dictate song tempo?!?! The lightning tempo was to mask a failing voice and there are plenty of bootlegs from that tour that captured him cracking for the first time ever. Escape tour was carried by medicine, the Frontiers album showed the radical change in voice, ROR saw the last desperate attempt to sing in the original key, FTLOSM showed a half step down with many songs no longer in his wheel house even a half step down and TBF showed us he could no longer tour at all. It's right there if you care to accept the facts. Or you could run around jizzing all over yourself and believe Steve Lipkather, Uncle Joe Benson and Randy Jackson when they say that he still sounds like he did in the mid 80's.

The above I agree with 100% With this new info from Andrew and the white sox player pal of Steve's that said that his voice is gone and he wont do it. All the evidence is there and really is has been all along. As I have said and sure other mirror my statement.

If he could he would be doing so now. He hasnt because he cant. He tried to fix it and it is just gone. It is not an industry secret and I wonder if andrew plus the white sox guy saying that it is gone only days apart is any coincidence. IS this how Perry is going to tell us ? He just cant say it himself I bet. He cant say to his fans, Its gone, i cant sing anymore, thank you and good night.

I think it's really time to acknowlege this and be appreciative of what we got when Steve was active. I also think it's time for all the singer bashing to stop
and just enjoy what time we still have with the band. It's never gonna be perfect again, never like 1981 again. Times have changed for this genre of music.
That doesn't mean that those of us that are still fans can't still enjoy some live shows and some new music. I appreciate all the singers who have kept this
band going, including the present. It would be nice if SP could give us an official announcement and just pass the torch along. No reason for prolonged
bitterness among former band members. It is what it is. Hopefully they can just put all their past differences aside. That said, I don't know why Neal, Steve
and Jon couldn't still reach a point where they could collaborate on some new music.

+1

[onmyjrny]

When did Perry do I Stand Alone?

1998. Last thing from him, solo-wise. He sounds great on that. If he had that voice today, he could still be mega-successful on new stuff and still do a ton of the back catalog. But Andrew has told us that even if he can sing like that, it's uncomfortable for him.

That sucks.

You expect us to believe that he WAS able to change album art work, liquidate their assets and fire members, but he was NOT able to dictate song tempo?!?! The lightning tempo was to mask a failing voice and there are plenty of bootlegs from that tour that captured him cracking for the first time ever. Escape tour was carried by medicine, the Frontiers album showed the radical change in voice, ROR saw the last desperate attempt to sing in the original key, FTLOSM showed a half step down with many songs no longer in his wheel house even a half step down and TBF showed us he could no longer tour at all. It's right there if you care to accept the facts. Or you could run around jizzing all over yourself and believe Steve Lipkather, Uncle Joe Benson and Randy Jackson when they say that he still sounds like he did in the mid 80's.

The above I agree with 100% With this new info from Andrew and the white sox player pal of Steve's that said that his voice is gone and he wont do it. All the evidence is there and really is has been all along. As I have said and sure other mirror my statement.

If he could he would be doing so now. He hasnt because he cant. He tried to fix it and it is just gone. It is not an industry secret and I wonder if andrew plus the white sox guy saying that it is gone only days apart is any coincidence. IS this how Perry is going to tell us ? He just cant say it himself I bet. He cant say to his fans, Its gone, i cant sing anymore, thank you and good night.

Do you think he has given the okay for people close to him to let this information "leak?"

[Blueskies]

I was told by someone who works for Sony, that SP did go in studio and do some recording a couple years ago. I doubt it will be released though. I figure the powers that be and probably SP himself don't think it would go over well with the public since they are so familiar with how he use to sound. I would love to hear it regardless if he was singing in a raspier lower keyed voice but he's a perfectionist A type personality and someone who is big on holding onto the legacy and not doing things that he thinks may take away from it. The reality is it probably wouldn't go over well, ( except for the diehards who want to hear anything) as evidenced here people get stuck to certain sounds and styles and aren't open minded enough to listen to anything else without bias that is removed even to small degrees from their preferences.

There have been artists with a raspy voice to reach much success but that's how their voices sounded when they gained the success. Stevie Nicks and Joe Cocker are two examples. People accept it because it was never a change, the rasp was always there. One singer that comes to mind who's voice changed drastically was Kim Carnes. She didn't have the success before the drastic change, though, she had it after with Betty Davis Eyes. So raspy is acceptable.....but with Steve Perry? Who knows.....but to a great degree, unfortunately, probably not with the majority of listeners since he's been held to such a high standard. Heck, look at the flack Eclipse is even getting from half of the people on this forum. Its a very small sampling from few people but its an indicator of what I'm saying about a change in sound. ( Although, imo, Eclipse isn't a drastic change at all and is Journey to me with elements from past albums.) as well as the flack from change in singers that continues and many refusing to even listen to Arnel and give him a chance.

[Liquid_Drummer]

When did Perry do I Stand Alone?

1998. Last thing from him, solo-wise. He sounds great on that. If he had that voice today, he could still be mega-successful on new stuff and still do a ton of the back catalog. But Andrew has told us that even if he can sing like that, it's uncomfortable for him.

That sucks.

You expect us to believe that he WAS able to change album art work, liquidate their assets and fire members, but he was NOT able to dictate song tempo?!?! The lightning tempo was to mask a failing voice and there are plenty of bootlegs from that tour that captured him cracking for the first time ever. Escape tour was carried by medicine, the Frontiers album showed the radical change in voice, ROR saw the last desperate attempt to sing in the original key, FTLOSM showed a half step down with many songs no longer in his wheel house even a half step down and TBF showed us he could no longer tour at all. It's right there if you care to accept the facts. Or you could run around jizzing all over yourself and believe Steve Lipkather, Uncle Joe Benson and Randy Jackson when they say that he still sounds like he did in the mid 80's.

The above I agree with 100% With this new info from Andrew and the white sox player pal of Steve's that said that his voice is gone and he wont do it. All the evidence is there and really is has been all along. As I have said and sure other mirror my statement.

If he could he would be doing so now. He hasnt because he cant. He tried to fix it and it is just gone. It is not an industry secret and I wonder if andrew plus the white sox guy saying that it is gone only days apart is any coincidence. IS this how Perry is going to tell us ? He just cant say it himself I bet. He cant say to his fans, Its gone, i cant sing anymore, thank you and good night.

Do you think he has given the okay for people close to him to let this information "leak?"

After hearing Andrew make a direct comment that in the past he has only hinted at and the white sox guy saying it out right. Yes. Yes I do. Maybe he is fueling a rumor so he can bash it down and look all the more cock heavy.. Heh. Doubt the latter.

[YoungJRNY]

Perry shined on this in '86

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJTM1J-H ... re=related

Lmao, this reminds me of that part in "Walk Hard- the Dewey Cox story" when he took cocaine and wanted to play his music the fastest it could be played. Horrible.

[WykkedSensation]

When did Perry do I Stand Alone?

1998. Last thing from him, solo-wise. He sounds great on that. If he had that voice today, he could still be mega-successful on new stuff and still do a ton of the back catalog. But Andrew has told us that even if he can sing like that, it's uncomfortable for him.

That sucks.

And of course Andrew would know, cause Andrew runs melodicrock.com and can't possibly be wrong
Sorry Wombat just had to

[escapefan]

I just wish him well, and the band well. The fans seem to dictate the dirty dozen in concert. I hope they take care of AP's voice on this tour. It would be a shame to destroy his talent also.


We haven't heard anything new from him since 98. So there has to be a reason, whether it be physical or psychological, he and the band gave us some great music. Music that has stood the test of time. I wish they would mend their fences, but I wouldn't place a bet on that either..


At this point, Journey needs to take care of their frontman's talent. So what if they have to take it a few steps down.

[Blueskies]

Espee has actually helped the band in some way, imo, by continually saying through the years that he was thinking about singing again and was writing songs. All of which is probably true. What I'm saying is, intentional or not by his saying what he has in keeping that possibility alive...he has kept a number of peoples interest alive to keep checking out what Journey is doing and keep checking to see what he is up to. Sure, some of those are strictly Loons but in radio interviews which more then loons may have heard it could have motivated some folks to check to see what Journeys doing again and brought them back as fans. DSB has had the same effect in the last couple years as well and SP had to give his permission on the use of it too in things like the Sopranos and participating with the song for baseball games.

He also has not been dissing the band publicly in interviews and says positive things about the past and avoids commenting on other singers in the band. I'm sure much of the reason is to preserve his own legacy, but there is also the possibility that he has had the band in mind too and chooses his words and considers when he gives permissions carefully. He certainly hasn't given scathing interviews to intentionally try to hurt the band. I think Neal and Jon should keep that fact in mind before they say something derogatory about him in another interview. It would be cool if they all got together and patched up their friendships, but the least they could do is keep this in mind and return the respect that's been given to them and keep the interviews positive. With them all, the pain has been apparent thru the years, but so has the love...so I hope they all bare that in mind.

[conversationpc]

Perry shined on this in '86

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJTM1J-H ... re=related

Holy fuck! That was awful!

That was terrible...Way too fast, partly out of tune, leaving out lyrics, etc. Horrible.

[Andrew]

So how did Perry do it all those years. I know he was younger than the others starting off. But damn... Of course AP has been singing the songs for who knows how long prior to Journey.. Truely sad that it can do the damage it does.

You said it yourself....younger. Voice deepens as you age...happens to them all.

[Ehwmatt]

Most concert goers aren't going to have a clue, because they're going to be waving their beers and singing along. People on this board analyze a concert. Most people go to experience a concert. As long as Arnel hits the notes, most won't know or care what key it's in.

Wrong. "Most" concertgoers might not be able to understand what's going on musically, i.e., that the instruments are detuned. Most (but not all) will, however, notice that something is very "off" with the music. True, some won't notice when it's half a step down and will do just as you describe. But, if they go a FULL step down, I'd be surprised if 80% of the fans at a given show don't notice something is very off with the performance.

[steveo777]

Most concert goers aren't going to have a clue, because they're going to be waving their beers and singing along. People on this board analyze a concert. Most people go to experience a concert. As long as Arnel hits the notes, most won't know or care what key it's in.

Wrong. "Most" concertgoers might not be able to understand what's going on musically, i.e., that the instruments are detuned. Most (but not all) will, however, notice that something is very "off" with the music. True, some won't notice when it's half a step down and will do just as you describe. But, if they go a FULL step down, I'd be surprised if 80% of the fans at a given show don't notice something is very off with the performance.

Well since we're talking a full step down, I've heard nothing that sounds like a full step.
Going that far down would be idiotic. This is to be a year of rallying, not back stepping.
I'd hate to hear them going down that far.

[RSParker]

Impressive and tight.

They've been stepping down, then stepping back up on other concerts this year. I think they do this sometimes as a relief when they have gigs close together.

I just can't be overly critical of that. It just shows they are trying to take care of Arnel to some degree.

Here is a decent partial clip of Ask The Lonely from Graspop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnWfvNpatgc

[Red13JoePa]

Not sure why they played the songs that fast on that tour, but the vocals are spot on. All the notes were hit even on the Infinity stuff they did on that tour in the original key. Maybe SP preferred to speed up the tempo rather than drop tune in order to preserve his voice.

Never heard anyone ask him or Neal or Jon why that was done, but of course that would be blamed on SP too.

JSS once said that the fast playing was a way to preserve the voice instead of detuning. I remember me and Deano asking him about the ROR tour because the 2 songs from the boxset aren't warp speed but when you listen to the boots almost everything sounds like the Chipmunks playing Jrn tunes.

[koberry]

Oh who cares! What's important it where did Arnel get that coat?! I want it!!!

The coat makes him look like the love child of Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley

[conversationpc]

Not sure why they played the songs that fast on that tour, but the vocals are spot on. All the notes were hit even on the Infinity stuff they did on that tour in the original key. Maybe SP preferred to speed up the tempo rather than drop tune in order to preserve his voice.

Never heard anyone ask him or Neal or Jon why that was done, but of course that would be blamed on SP too.

JSS once said that the fast playing was a way to preserve the voice instead of detuning. I remember me and Deano asking him about the ROR tour because the 2 songs from the boxset aren't warp speed but when you listen to the boots almost everything sounds like the Chipmunks playing Jrn tunes.

I don't care if it's used to preserve the voice or not. It just sounds really bad and I'd be a tad pissed if I went to a Journey show and ended up hearing the Chipmunks instead.

[Michigan Girl]

Saw ROR a couple of times ...great, great show!!
I'd pay a lot of money to see it, as played then,
today.

Gotta make up your mind folks, preserve
the vox ...or drain 'em dry!! I'm sure Ap's
fans feel the same way!!

The show was tuned down, and sllloowww, by
the time I saw it in '09, w/the audience singing
way ahead of AP ...I promise, in the
moment, very few really cared ...and it was
noticeable!!

[conversationpc]

Gotta make up your mind folks, preserve
the vox ...or drain 'em dry!!

I'd rather they didn't schedule shows to a point where they have to play the Chipmunks version. Might as well not do a show at all if they feel they need to play the songs like that.

[Michigan Girl]

Gotta make up your mind folks, preserve
the vox ...or drain 'em dry!!

I'd rather they didn't schedule shows to a point where they have to play the Chipmunks version. Might as well not do a show at all if they feel they need to play the songs like that.

Agreed ...

[Gideon]

Gotta make up your mind folks, preserve
the vox ...or drain 'em dry!!

I'd rather they didn't schedule shows to a point where they have to play the Chipmunks version. Might as well not do a show at all if they feel they need to play the songs like that.

I'd take detuning a 1/2 step or so over the ROR fiasco and I'm sure Perry looks back now and wishes he'd have done both.

[Glenn]

I made it about 30 seconds into that clip....30 seconds I'll never get back.

[Vocalsmanvocals]

Perry shined on this in '86

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJTM1J-H ... re=related

Holy fuck! That was awful!

I would have paid to see him lol

[brywool]

Pineda doesn't sing stepped down on his solo tours though. It's obviously a catalog issue.

No, it's an issue of the shows being too close together. If it was a catalog issue, he wouldn't be able to sing the old stuff in the actual keys at all. It's like an athlete, there has to be some recover time there.

[Don]

Pineda doesn't sing stepped down on his solo tours though. It's obviously a catalog issue.

No, it's an issue of the shows being too close together. If it was a catalog issue, he wouldn't be able to sing the old stuff in the actual keys at all. It's like an athlete, there has to be some recover time there.

Per Arnel's request, they spaced out the tour in 2009 and the guy still sang stepped down.

[Intell]

So how did Perry do it all those years. I know he was younger than the others starting off. But damn... Of course AP has been singing the songs for who knows how long prior to Journey.. Truely sad that it can do the damage it does.

excerpt from: One In A Million, A Vocal Analysis Of "The Voice"

Steve Perry was a Countertenor, which is the name given to male vocalists who sing in the highest musical register. Soprano is the female equivalent (although not an exact parallel) whose natural voices usually carry to a higher register than their male counterparts (but not always).

Male sopranos are usually boys whose voices have not yet broken (there are male ‘sopranists’ but extremely rare). Males usually go beyond their normal range (modal/ full voice) by using falsetto, although ‘head voice’ is a similar vocal category usually defined as the voice in a natural high pitch.

Perry used falsetto for the notes at the very top of his range, but whereas many rock countertenors use some form of head voice or falsetto once beyond the ‘tenor high C’, Perry produced most of his countertenor range in full voice before using any form of falsetto.

Men are usually divided into four groups:

1. Countertenor (equivalent to that of a contralto, mezzo-soprano, or a soprano)
2. Tenor
3. Baritone
4. Bass

IMHO, Journey singers would be listed as follows in the above list:

1. Countertenor - SP
2. Tenor - SA, JSS, AP
3. Baritone
4. Bass

This graphic should also help...



IMHO, the real reason Perry lasted so much longer is that his base range, i.e. his starting point was higher. This, in concert with good vocal technique (watch him sing, its effortless) and rest regimen (remember the distant, aloof Perry?) allowed SP to last as long as he did... yet even still, in the end the wear and tear of the endless touring still damaged his voice, as it did to SA...

Nice job- thanks!

[Michigan Girl]

SO cool, Slucero ...thanks!!!