Why Elipse flopped for the average fan

[The_Noble_Cause]

right there in front of you.. clear as day...

clean the glasses, open your eyes, lay off the coffee... seriously dude... try some reading comprehension...

This entire thread is discussing why Eclipse failed to appeal to the average Journey fan. You suggested that it was because of a lack of hooks, saying, quote:

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love.
It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

When I mentioned that the very catchy Arrival also failed, you changed the metric for success, saying that was due to a lack of promotion.
So let's recap...
When an album you enjoy fails (i.e. Arrival) it is due to a lack of promotion. When an album you dislike fails (i.e. Eclipse) it is due to a lack of hooks.
Keep changing the goal posts and hiding the ball. It's obvious you have no consistent line of argument. You just really hate Eclipse.

[AR]

right there in front of you.. clear as day...

clean the glasses, open your eyes, lay off the coffee... seriously dude... try some reading comprehension...

This entire thread is discussing why Eclipse failed to appeal to the average Journey fan. You suggested that it was because of a lack of hooks, saying, quote:

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love.
It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

When I mentioned that the very catchy Arrival also failed, you changed the metric for success, saying that was due to a lack of promotion.
So let's recap...
When an album you enjoy fails (i.e. Arrival) it is due to a lack of promotion. When an album you dislike fails (i.e. Eclipse) it is due to a lack of hooks.
Keep changing the goal posts and hiding the ball. It's obvious you have no consistent line of argument. You just really hate Eclipse.

My call on this one (and hello TNC) is that artistically this offering has not failed. Commercially so far, sure it has. This is where the argument was between Shirley, Schon and Cain.

[slucero]

Yulog is disappointed... as are many others... that doesn't mean "pissed off".

You're posts on the other hand.. ALL come off as pissy.... get over yourself..

Several albums have come out in the past year that dissapointed me. Guess what? I said my piece, debated with fans, and generally, bought something better. You guys, on the other hand, are actively rooting for the demise of the band itself. Any thread that can be derailed, has been derailed. It's not even about the music, as most of your points are dumb hyperbolic crap ("Eclipse is as radical as a bluegrass album"? "Tantra is the worst song since Emile Berliner invented the gramophone". Really? ). Like the pro-Perry maniacs that used to make this forum an intolerable shithole and hijack every thread, ur posts are just white noise spam.

LMAO... you can't even keep the people you disagree with straight..

I've never said anything about journey being bluegrass.. you'll have to show me that post.. hahahahaha

Demise of the band?.... all things end... so will Journey... deal with it.


If these posts are just "white noise/spam" then don't respond.. but you just can't help yourself can you?

[steveo777]

right there in front of you.. clear as day...

clean the glasses, open your eyes, lay off the coffee... seriously dude... try some reading comprehension...

This entire thread is discussing why Eclipse failed to appeal to the average Journey fan. You suggested that it was because of a lack of hooks, saying, quote:

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love.
It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

When I mentioned that the very catchy Arrival also failed, you changed the metric for success, saying that was due to a lack of promotion.
So let's recap...
When an album you enjoy fails (i.e. Arrival) it is due to a lack of promotion. When an album you dislike fails (i.e. Eclipse) it is due to a lack of hooks.
Keep changing the goal posts and hiding the ball. It's obvious you have no consistent line of argument. You just really hate Eclipse.

My call on this one (and hello TNC) is that artistically this offering has not failed. Commercially so far, sure it has. This is where the argument was between Shirley, Schon and Cain.

Very good post, and I agree. I like the album and feel it is a solid effort, but commercially it's failed, so far, but there are signs life again, like the jump in Walmart sales
position. Maybe some late promo work can help, as the band tours the US. I think that people who say it sucks and that's why it hasn't sold more are way off base.

[slucero]

This entire thread is discussing why Eclipse failed to appeal to the average Journey fan. You suggested that it was because of a lack of hooks, saying, quote:

For the "lay" Journey fan, "rocker" = Any Way You Want It.... or Stone In Love.
It's pretty simple... they want hooks... when they don't get them they move on to something else..

When I mentioned that the very catchy Arrival also failed, you changed the metric for success, saying that was due to a lack of promotion.
So let's recap...
When an album you enjoy fails (i.e. Arrival) it is due to a lack of promotion. When an album you dislike fails (i.e. Eclipse) it is due to a lack of hooks.
Keep changing the goal posts and hiding the ball. It's obvious you have no consistent line of argument. You just really hate Eclipse.

Then we must be using the same goalposts idiot... cause I was agreeing with you.... lol

Riiiight. Becuz "Arrival" and "Generations" sold like hotcakes, didn't they?
Let's not forget that Armageddon single that set record charts ablaze.
Until Azoff, Sony, or Wmart (or whoever) throws their support behind a Perry-free Journey, we'll never know if there is a market for it or not.

Wow you quoted me yet still didn't read my post...

I said "lay" fan... Most of us aren't lay fans... and we know Arrival and Generations, without any major marketing.. had little to no chance of "getting to" those lay fans on any grand scale...

so lets recap...

Eclipse failed to appeal to the average Journey fan.

Why?

1. Lack of promotion
2. Material that the average Journey fan will not buy.

Promo may move the unit count a little higher... but this album has no songs that the average Journey fan will get excited about.

[AR]

Ok, listening to Eclipse right now peeps.

It's pretty good.

The problem IMO is that Journey has become part of the American Idol/The Voice crowd and they only care about Don't Stop Believing.

[RocknRoll]

My call on this one (and hello TNC) is that artistically this offering has not failed. Commercially so far, sure it has. This is where the argument was between Shirley, Schon and Cain.

This is really scarey!! AR shows back up here and for the first time since I've been on this forum, I agree with him!! Something has changed here is it me or AR!!

Actually I think AR and I agreed a lot on JSS, but I just don't want to admit it!

[Don]

DSB is Journey. The band disappeared during 2010 and that song became the brand anthem during their absence.
Six minute songs ain't Journey. Tales about about God and spirituality ain't Journey. Glee usurped the band's identity to the point where a TV show defines what Journey is now to the majority of music listeners.
It was great pub at first but then the band let it run amuck while they went on siesta for a year and even tried to go on the cheap and use it as free promo for their new album instead of spendng a few bucks on some type of distinctive marketing. For the majority of DSB fanatics, it comes off as a bait and switch. In the end, all of this set up Eclipse to become an guaranteed failure at retail.
The band bought into their own hype. Ticket sales don't equate to album sales. After their latest releases, Bon Jovi and U2 can attest to that.
And anyone thinking Journey doesn't care if this album sells or not is deluding themselves. Their chance of having a major financial backer and distributor for their next studio effort may have very well gone up in flames with this release.
You've already went from Sony to distributing your own material through Wal-Mart. If the big box dumps you, there isn't a lot of leeway left.

[Rick]

DSB is Journey. The band disappeared during 2010 and that song became the brand anthem during their absence.
Six minute songs ain't Journey. Tales about about God and spirituality ain't Journey. Glee usurped the band's identity to the point where a TV show defines what Journey is now to the majority of music listeners.
It was great pub at first but then the band let it run amuck while they went on siesta for a year and even tried to go on the cheap and use it as free promo for their new album instead of spendng a few bucks on some type of distinctive marketing. For the majority of DSB fanatics, it comes off as a bait and switch. In the end, all of this set up Eclipse to become an guaranteed failure at retail.
The band bought into their own hype. Ticket sales don't equate to album sales. After their latest releases, Bon Jovi and U2 can attest to that.
And anyone thinking Journey doesn't care if this album sells or not is deluding themselves. Their chance of having a major financial backer and distributor for their next studio effort may have very well gone up in flames with this release.

Best post, ever. Very well said.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, everything Don said is right on the money, but I love the record.

[AR]

My call on this one (and hello TNC) is that artistically this offering has not failed. Commercially so far, sure it has. This is where the argument was between Shirley, Schon and Cain.

This is really scarey!! AR shows back up here and for the first time since I've been on this forum, I agree with him!! Something has changed here is it me or AR!!

Actually I think AR and I agreed a lot on JSS, but I just don't want to admit it!

Thanks.

[Andrew]

Who the hell buys a new cd and then immediately starts hitting "skip"? I may do that after one listen, but I at least try to give something a fair shake. Not so sure your friend representst the average fan. This is Journey, not Pantera. Eclipse rocks in its own melodic way.

+1

[Andrew]

this album is not what 95% of journey fans want:

Rubbish. There are plenty out there that LOVE this CD.

[Arkansas]

Rubbish. There are plenty out there that LOVE this CD.

And the 'plenty' have bought it. But the 'plenty' are few.


later~

[yulog]

this album is not what 95% of journey fans want:

Rubbish. There are plenty out there that LOVE this CD.

Where?

[RocknRoll]

this album is not what 95% of journey fans want:

Rubbish. There are plenty out there that LOVE this CD.

Where?

It's pretty funny how this was the background music played during Katy Cuuriic's last show!!

[Don]

this album is not what 95% of journey fans want:

Rubbish. There are plenty out there that LOVE this CD.

Where?

It's pretty funny how this was the background music played during Katy Cuuriic's last show!!

99% of the people who watched that last show still aren't aware of it.

[Argus]

this album is not what 95% of journey fans want:

Rubbish. There are plenty out there that LOVE this CD.

Where?

It's pretty funny how this was the background music played during Katy Cuuriic's last show!!

99% of the people who watched that last show still aren't aware of it.

which song[s]

[yulog]

Who the hell buys a new cd and then immediately starts hitting "skip"? I may do that after one listen, but I at least try to give something a fair shake. Not so sure your friend representst the average fan. This is Journey, not Pantera. Eclipse rocks in its own melodic way.

+1

Hey if the song sounds weak , you skip to the next one , if that sounds weak you start skipping again or stop listening and come back later, happens all the time even with your average (sacred) journey fans


Drew your +1 is kinda a conflict of interest since your job is to listen to cds , you had to listen to the whole sin-atra cd, something tells me you wanted to skip the whole damn cd across some pond

[yulog]

Sounds like I struck a nerve and the one thats pissed/frustrated might be yourself.

Is there an exclamation point in any of my posts (and bingo wasn't a mad comment) that might signify that i am pissed? Did i say anything about Perry?

No, it's just your track record of bashing Eclipse, or anything remotely related to it, for the past month, day in and day out. When someone's posts come off like a child with an axe to grind, the writer is usually a child with an axe to grind. Like I said above, the self-loathing Perryheads used to piss, whine, moan on here daily about how Augeri sux and Perry needs to come back. They were pissed off. I'm guessing you are too. This is a weak association even by your standards, I have never pissed whined or moaned about Augeri taking over for Perry.

Lately Steve O and yourself have been on a mission to try and discount anyones comment that could be deemed negative about the new cd(and from the looks of it you two have been pretty busy lately ).

lame-brained indeed

I'm not discounting anyone's opinion. I'm debating the cd. Meanwhile, you guys are offering insightful analysis like "Eclipse is a bluegrass album" and "Tantra is cheesy. Journey was never cheesy."

If your going to debate the cd with me maybe you should debate something that i actually said, and stop lumping me in as "you guys". I never said anything about bluegrass or that tantra was or is cheesy. I'm pretty sure i said i liked Tantra. It sounds like your having a hard time keeping up with who said what about this cd and your trying to lump the plethera of negative comments to me.

[Andrew]

Drew your +1 is kinda a conflict of interest since your job is to listen to cds , you had to listen to the whole sin-atra cd, something tells me you wanted to skip the whole damn cd across some pond

Sometimes my job isn't easy.

[YoungJRNY]

Maybe it flopped because the music isn't very good, and doesn't have wide appeal. I think it's funny how people want to always fault others. Walmart didn't push it. The fans are too stupid to listen to it properly, etc.

I like how everyone wants to blame the music for not selling. To my understanding, don't you have to BUY the cd FIRST to listen to the music and decide not to like it or not? Green Lantern is considered a bomb because it was advertised to DEATH but the appeal didn't work in its favor. Green Lantern isn't a marketable character to begin with because he doesn't have appeal to the unknown audience. Journey is JOURNEY. It just doesn't make sense to put blame on the music for not selling the album when you must buy the product first to understand what makes up the quality of the CD, "hooks" or not and that falls on the marketing department. There's a bulk of people out there that would enjoy this style of Journey and they have no clue it's even on the shelves.

[RedWingFan]

Maybe it flopped because the music isn't very good, and doesn't have wide appeal. I think it's funny how people want to always fault others. Walmart didn't push it. The fans are too stupid to listen to it properly, etc.

I like how everyone wants to blame the music for not selling. To my understanding, don't you have to BUY the cd FIRST to listen to the music and decide not to like it or not? Green Lantern is considered a bomb because it was advertised to DEATH but the appeal didn't work in its favor. Green Lantern isn't a marketable character to begin with because he doesn't have appeal to the unknown audience. Journey is JOURNEY. It just doesn't make sense to put blame on the music for not selling the album when you must buy the product first to understand what makes up the quality of the CD, "hooks" or not and that falls on the marketing department.

Word of mouth bro. I'm willing to bet there were a lot of Journey fans who bought the cd that didn't recommend it to others because of the content. I know that I told my brother not to waste his money from the stream I listened to a few times. Same with Green Lantern.

[belar]

I've been a Journey fan for 30 years, and while I really, really wanted to like this album, the truth is, in my opinion, it's very forgettable. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Eclipse turns out to be Journey's last studio album. I understand that Andrew and others think it's terrific and that's fine. I respect everyone's opinions. I just can't get into it, personally. For my money, the best album of the year so far is Trinity by Eden's Curse.

[yulog]

I've been a Journey fan for 30 years, and while I really, really wanted to like this album, the truth is, in my opinion, it's very forgettable. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Eclipse turns out to be Journey's last studio album. I understand that Andrew and others think it's terrific and that's fine. I respect everyone's opinions. I just can't get into it, personally. For my money, the best album of the year so far is Trinity by Eden's Curse.

Your not alone ,many have felt this way minus the edens curse(ugh)

[Seven Wishes2]

The "hooks" on Eclipse are about as catchy as one of those five thousand ton megaliths at the temple of Jupiter in Balbeek.

[portland]

I've been a Journey fan for 30 years, and while I really, really wanted to like this album, the truth is, in my opinion, it's very forgettable. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Eclipse turns out to be Journey's last studio album. I understand that Andrew and others think it's terrific and that's fine. I respect everyone's opinions. I just can't get into it, personally. For my money, the best album of the year so far is Trinity by Eden's Curse.

I like Forevermore....my pick for the best so far.

[yulog]

Drew your +1 is kinda a conflict of interest since your job is to listen to cds , you had to listen to the whole sin-atra cd, something tells me you wanted to skip the whole damn cd across some pond

Sometimes my job isn't easy.

Sometimes?

[belar]

I've been a Journey fan for 30 years, and while I really, really wanted to like this album, the truth is, in my opinion, it's very forgettable. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Eclipse turns out to be Journey's last studio album. I understand that Andrew and others think it's terrific and that's fine. I respect everyone's opinions. I just can't get into it, personally. For my money, the best album of the year so far is Trinity by Eden's Curse.

I like Forevermore....my pick for the best so far.

Haven't actually heard that one yet, but it's on the list.

[steveo777]

Yulog, your avatar looks like Grandpa Munster and Danny Bonaduce's mom had sex.

[DrFU]

There seems to be a bit of hope ...

-------

US music sales rise for first time since 2004


LOS ANGELES — U.S. music album sales grew in the first six months of the year from a year ago, the first gain since 2004, thanks to rising sales of digital tracks and albums.

Tracking firm Nielsen SoundScan said Wednesday that overall album sales rose nearly 4 percent to 221.5 million units, from 213.6 million a year ago.

The figure includes compact discs and digital albums. Nielsen also counts 10 tracks sold individually as one album.

The top-selling album was Adele's "21," with 2.5 million albums sold, while Lady Gaga's "Born This Way" came second with 1.5 million albums, thanks largely to a promotion on Amazon.com that sold her album for a heavily discounted 99 cents.

http://www.austin360.com/music/us-music ... _frontpage