Schon Talks..utube...

[Monker]

I'm still amazed that they are still following the fuzzy math of Revelation's sales figures...platinum? Yeah, ok.

It was a 2 disc set and moved about 750,000 units. Multiply that by 2 and you've sold 1.5 million discs. What's so hard to figure out about that? Besides, worldwide, I'm sure it has moved over a million physical units, though I'm aware that those wouldn't count toward the RIAA's certification. At any rate, it was a highly successful album and put a lot of loot in everyone's pocket that had writing credits on the album. Everybody wins.

Still fuzzy math. It is a package deal. Does a 12-disc boxset achieve platinum status in 1/12 the time as...say....Frontiers? It is a package. All the discs are packaged together. I'm sure the bill of lading at the local music store shows units ordered as each copy of Revelation, not each disc included separately. For RIAA to have different standards is ghey...they just do it to spark sales. "WOW, that disc is already gold?! It must be good!"

Dude, it is the way it is...and it's been that way since the dawn of time. You record two album's worth of material and package together, it gets counted as 2 records. And 750,000 of a ROCK album in this era is astounding.

Exactlly, since the dawn of time. Back when Captured cost twice as much as a single vinyl record...which is why their count was changed.

Nowadays, you get 2cds and a DVD for the same price as some single CDs...therefore, the original intent of having this double counting to make up for the expensive cost of such a package is no longer valid.

If Revelation cost $20, I doubt very much you would have seen the same amount of sales.

This rule should be removed....it is way outdated.

[steveo777]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

[Monker]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

Yeah, well, wasn't questioning that.

Just think the counting rule should be gone. Revelation proves that to me...not because it sold, but because of the price of the package and why the double counting was originally put into place. It's just an antiquated rule.

[steveo777]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

Yeah, well, wasn't questioning that.

Just think the counting rule should be gone. Revelation proves that to me...not because it sold, but because of the price of the package and why the double counting was originally put into place. It's just an antiquated rule.

So YOU THINK the counting rule should be gone because in YOUR opinion Journey just doesn't rate that kind of success. I get it and you are entitled to feel
that way, but it doesn't change the fact that Journey is still relevant and the sales numbers of that album, as well as the concert attendance shows that.
Why deny a statistic and try and change the rules because you don't personally agree? Hell, I don't agree with the sales numbers of many artists out there
and think they are shit, who's sales can only be attributed to pop culture or fad, if you will. A band like Journey, with their tremendous catalog stands the
test of time. What will Lady Gaga be 30+ years down the line? Probably not much, unless she self destructs and becomes immortal.

[Saint John]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

Yeah, well, wasn't questioning that.

Just think the counting rule should be gone. Revelation proves that to me...not because it sold, but because of the price of the package and why the double counting was originally put into place. It's just an antiquated rule.

... or perhaps CDs are just finally priced properly!

[Argus]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

Yeah, well, wasn't questioning that.

Just think the counting rule should be gone. Revelation proves that to me...not because it sold, but because of the price of the package and why the double counting was originally put into place. It's just an antiquated rule.

So YOU THINK the counting rule should be gone because in YOUR opinion Journey just doesn't rate that kind of success. I get it and you are entitled to feel
that way, but it doesn't change the fact that Journey is still relevant and the sales numbers of that album, as well as the concert attendance shows that.
Why deny a statistic and try and change the rules because you don't personally agree? Hell, I don't agree with the sales numbers of many artists out there
and think they are shit, who's sales can only be attributed to pop culture or fad, if you will. A band like Journey, with their tremendous catalog stands the
test of time. What will Lady Gaga be 30+ years down the line? Probably not much, unless she self destructs and becomes immortal.

So how are Cher, Madonna and Janet doing these days?

[steveo777]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

Yeah, well, wasn't questioning that.

Just think the counting rule should be gone. Revelation proves that to me...not because it sold, but because of the price of the package and why the double counting was originally put into place. It's just an antiquated rule.

So YOU THINK the counting rule should be gone because in YOUR opinion Journey just doesn't rate that kind of success. I get it and you are entitled to feel
that way, but it doesn't change the fact that Journey is still relevant and the sales numbers of that album, as well as the concert attendance shows that.
Why deny a statistic and try and change the rules because you don't personally agree? Hell, I don't agree with the sales numbers of many artists out there
and think they are shit, who's sales can only be attributed to pop culture or fad, if you will. A band like Journey, with their tremendous catalog stands the
test of time. What will Lady Gaga be 30+ years down the line? Probably not much, unless she self destructs and becomes immortal.

So how are Cher, Madonna and Janet doing these days?

They and Gaga are not a fair comparison. She's a pimple on their collective asses.

[Argus]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

Yeah, well, wasn't questioning that.

Just think the counting rule should be gone. Revelation proves that to me...not because it sold, but because of the price of the package and why the double counting was originally put into place. It's just an antiquated rule.

So YOU THINK the counting rule should be gone because in YOUR opinion Journey just doesn't rate that kind of success. I get it and you are entitled to feel
that way, but it doesn't change the fact that Journey is still relevant and the sales numbers of that album, as well as the concert attendance shows that.
Why deny a statistic and try and change the rules because you don't personally agree? Hell, I don't agree with the sales numbers of many artists out there
and think they are shit, who's sales can only be attributed to pop culture or fad, if you will. A band like Journey, with their tremendous catalog stands the
test of time. What will Lady Gaga be 30+ years down the line? Probably not much, unless she self destructs and becomes immortal.

So how are Cher, Madonna and Janet doing these days?

They and Gaga are not a fair comparison. She's a pimple on their collective asses.

lol Brian May and Mutt Lange do not share your opinion http://youtu.be/X9YMU0WeBwU don't watch.. just listen to the song.

[S2M]

Again, the sales figures are crap. Like I said, if Journey releases a 6-disc boxset down the line, does that mean each disc in the set is to be counted separately towards gold, platinum? The counting rules are bogus. Whatever number they come up with is divided by 2 for Revelation. It has nothing to do with not giving it its due success. OR the figures being respectful in the current music landscape. Units sold means just that...packages sold. You don't see Yousef at the local bodega claiming he sold 27 M&Ms to Luther Jones every sat. morning....

[Pelata]

if Journey releases a 6-disc boxset down the line, does that mean each disc in the set is to be counted separately towards gold, platinum?

Yes, because that's the rule on the books. I agree it may be outdated, I agree it kind of pads sales stats, but a rule is a rule and until it's changed it will remain. Revelation is a Platinum album by RIAA official regulation. End of story.

[Monker]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

Yeah, well, wasn't questioning that.

Just think the counting rule should be gone. Revelation proves that to me...not because it sold, but because of the price of the package and why the double counting was originally put into place. It's just an antiquated rule.

... or perhaps CDs are just finally priced properly!

Irrelevant.

Like I said, in the olden days, buying a vinyl set like Captured cost you at least twice as much as buying Departure. That is why the counting is double for a multi album set. Nowadays, it's no longer true...they still cost about the same and has become a gimmick to sell more for the same price. Therefore, the original reason to have the double counting is no longer an issue and the rule is obsolete.. That is the bottom line truth.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Look dick head, when Revelation goes double platinum it will still be platinum. It's closing on that. Get off it and quit trying
to find a way to discount it's success. It succeeded. Deal with it.

Yeah, well, wasn't questioning that.

Just think the counting rule should be gone. Revelation proves that to me...not because it sold, but because of the price of the package and why the double counting was originally put into place. It's just an antiquated rule.

... or perhaps CDs are just finally priced properly!

Irrelevant.

Like I said, in the olden days, buying a vinyl set like Captured cost you at least twice as much as buying Departure. That is why the counting is double for a multi album set. Nowadays, it's no longer true...they still cost about the same and has become a gimmick to sell more for the same price. Therefore, the original reason to have the double counting is no longer an issue and the rule is obsolete.. That is the bottom line truth.

Most people agree that the rule is silly but the TRUTH is that that is the rule. Rev is plat.

[S2M]

Yep...it is PLAT. Nice backdoor way to make sure an Arnel fronted journey reaches that plateau. It is a marketing gimmick, built in the assure the business of some sort of faux solvency....like I said, " ooohhh, Revelation is platinum...it MUST be a killer album!".

[Saint John]

Yep...it is PLAT. Nice backdoor way to make sure an Arnel fronted journey reaches that plateau. It is a marketing gimmick, built in the assure the business of some sort of faux solvency....like I said, " ooohhh, Revelation is platinum...it MUST be a killer album!".

And what makes that any different than TBF? That album was labeled Gold and Platinum before it sold anywhere near each threshold. That one was certified Gold and Platinum because back then they counted shipped units the same as sold units. Gold I believe, but not Platinum. Seems odd that it could sell 1 million units in 2 months, but not another million in 15 years! Was that also a "gimmick"? Regardless, the thing is still selling well and will be probably be certified Double Platinum for the sane world soon, and the malcontents will finally be able to rest assured that it did, indeed, move one million physical units and, thus, become MC (Malcontent Platinum).

I just love the way just about everyone rips the band for being crooks, old, stupid, stuck in the 80's, disconnected and every other disparaging name, but when they give their fans a killer package like Revelation they cry foul. Face the facts ... Walmart came up with an idea and Journey, namely Schon, who pushed to make an entire album of new material and had his company Nomota record a live DVD, came up with an absolutely brilliant package. And that package has padded many peoples' pockets. Yet we're splitting hairs about "fuzzy math." Listen, the rules are the rules and they played by them. Besides, I doubt they care whether it's labeled Tin, Copper, Aluminum, Gold or Platinum, as long as it keeps selling!

[Jeremey]

Again, the sales figures are crap. Like I said, if Journey releases a 6-disc boxset down the line, does that mean each disc in the set is to be counted separately towards gold, platinum? The counting rules are bogus. Whatever number they come up with is divided by 2 for Revelation. It has nothing to do with not giving it its due success. OR the figures being respectful in the current music landscape. Units sold means just that...packages sold. You don't see Yousef at the local bodega claiming he sold 27 M&Ms to Luther Jones every sat. morning....

By your argument Revelation has also sold 1,000,000 physical units, so I'm not sure what you're arguing about. By the second quarter of 2009, they had sold 850,000 units. Another 100,000 between then and spring of this year. Another 50,000 this spring.

So you could keep looking like a dumbasss arguing that 1 million units is a "crap" figure, while the RIAA certified the record platinum by the same standards that every other CD released since the rules have been in effect, your call. Or you could move onto perhaps a more valid, grounded in reality argument that may not make you look so ignorant, your call!

[Jeremey]

Oh, by the way, "shipping" records is one way of counting for a major label....However, every single one of the Revelation records was SOLD when it was shipped. Nomota made the records, Wal Mart bought them. They weren't "shipped" like the way Sony or Universal may ship a million units in hopes they sell at record stores, and then buy them back a year later when they are still sitting in the bargain bins.

Nomota SELLS the records to Wal Mart. At least in the case of Revelation. They don't "ship" them to Wal Mart and hope that they sell, nor do they buy them back as evidenced by the fact that they're still SELLING more of the title to Wal Mart on a yearly basis.

[Pelata]

I think they used to count "Shipped" from labels since technically the label "sold" them to a distributor. So, 1,000,000 consumers may not have bought it, but the label sold that many to the distributor, then to stores.

I have no idea how Walmart works, but apparently Jeremy does...

Moot point anyway...certified is certified and I don't know why we're debating it. Revelation is Platinum.

[Michigan Girl]

I think they used to count "Shipped" from labels since technically the label "sold" them to a distributor.

Yep ...SOLD as far as the label and the artist are concerned.

[Saint John]

Revelation is Platinum.

Actually, according to Jeremey, it's Double Platinum ... or will be once they pay the fee to have it certified.

[Monker]

Oh, by the way, "shipping" records is one way of counting for a major label....However, every single one of the Revelation records was SOLD when it was shipped. Nomota made the records, Wal Mart bought them. They weren't "shipped" like the way Sony or Universal may ship a million units in hopes they sell at record stores, and then buy them back a year later when they are still sitting in the bargain bins.

Nomota SELLS the records to Wal Mart. At least in the case of Revelation. They don't "ship" them to Wal Mart and hope that they sell, nor do they buy them back as evidenced by the fact that they're still SELLING more of the title to Wal Mart on a yearly basis.

And, that is the reason I think Wal-mart lost a crap load of money with Eclipse and, IMO, will never release another Journey album again.

[Jeremey]

Oh, by the way, "shipping" records is one way of counting for a major label....However, every single one of the Revelation records was SOLD when it was shipped. Nomota made the records, Wal Mart bought them. They weren't "shipped" like the way Sony or Universal may ship a million units in hopes they sell at record stores, and then buy them back a year later when they are still sitting in the bargain bins.

Nomota SELLS the records to Wal Mart. At least in the case of Revelation. They don't "ship" them to Wal Mart and hope that they sell, nor do they buy them back as evidenced by the fact that they're still SELLING more of the title to Wal Mart on a yearly basis.

And, that is the reason I think Wal-mart lost a crap load of money with Eclipse and, IMO, will never release another Journey album again.

You are likely very correct, and I don't believe anyone would release another Journey CD based on Eclipse's results, however maybe that was the intent to begin with.

In other words, if a band, any band, puts out a record that financially flops, they will be hard pressed to put out another record on someone else's dime. They could release it themselves I guess and do the digital thing & sell it at shows maybe.

[Don]

I wonder why they never bothered getting the Manila DVD certified Platinum? It qualified easily back in 2010. It's got twice as many sales as Eclipse has at this point.

[johnny15]

lol they probably just ran out of money. the caveman ain't cheap!

[Gideon]

I wonder why they never bothered getting the Manila DVD certified Platinum? It qualified easily back in 2010. It's got twice as many sales as Eclipse has at this point.

The Manila DVD went platinum in terms of sales?

[Don]

I wonder why they never bothered getting the Manila DVD certified Platinum? It qualified easily back in 2010. It's got twice as many sales as Eclipse has at this point.

The Manila DVD went platinum in terms of sales?

A long time ago. For Video, the thresholds are 50k for gold and 100k for Platinum. The Manila DVD is currently around 160,000 sold I believe.

[Gideon]

I wonder why they never bothered getting the Manila DVD certified Platinum? It qualified easily back in 2010. It's got twice as many sales as Eclipse has at this point.

The Manila DVD went platinum in terms of sales?

A long time ago. For Video, the thresholds are 50k for gold and 100k for Platinum. The Manila DVD is currently around 160,000 sold I believe.

Where do the other major releases (Houston and the 2001 w/ Augeri) rank?

[Argus]

I wonder why they never bothered getting the Manila DVD certified Platinum? It qualified easily back in 2010. It's got twice as many sales as Eclipse has at this point.

The Manila DVD went platinum in terms of sales?

A long time ago. For Video, the thresholds are 50k for gold and 100k for Platinum. The Manila DVD is currently around 160,000 sold I believe.

Here's a thought, package Manila & Eclipse together [barring getting One Man's JRNY] and see how that sells